North American Auto Industry Crisis news **Pontiac's Last Day (page 28)**
#241
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^But wouldn't GM slash prices on caddys or they sell pretty well and theres no need too? I really can't tell I haven't seen a CTS in like 4 months.
#242
2G TLX-S
#243
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#244
an asshole from florida
just another uninformed consumer, if people actually would look the reliability of american cars have went up alot, but going on history of american cars people still think they are going to fall apart in >10k miles.
and to edwardtls, if you look the astra is one of the top selling cars in its category in europe, fyi
and to edwardtls, if you look the astra is one of the top selling cars in its category in europe, fyi
#245
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
Keep dreaming about 25k CTS...because it's only a dream.
#246
Senior Moderator
^ Well a dealer is selling Mustangs GTs for $19k!
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/08/g...gt-for-18-995/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/08/g...gt-for-18-995/
One positive side effect of the auto industry experiencing such a low sales volume is the incredible deals you can find on a new car. Manufacturers have already pulled out the old tried and true incentives of employee pricing and 0% financing, but we've never seen a deal like this before. Galpin Ford, which bills itself as the #1 volume Ford dealer in the world, is offering the 2008 Ford Mustang GT for the bargain bin price of $18,995. The dealership says it has come across 40 models of America's favorite muscle car from a "performance fleet" and is offering them at nearly 1/3 off on a first come, first serve basis. We don't know exactly what "performance fleet" means, so be sure to check the odometer and ask what these Mustangs experienced in a prior life before buying. Their original $28,160 MSRPs have been knocked down by Ford's own employee pricing deal, an additional $2,500 rebate and Galpin's own discount of $3,794. If you're interested, you better act quick as there's sure to be big demand for such low priced Detroit iron while gas is still below $2/gallon.
#247
The Saturns that are identical are the Astra and Sky. But again, that doesn't even matter.... Honda Accord Euro = Acura TSX. Honda Inspire = Honda Accord (NA).
You're reaching like msl.
#252
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
^ Well a dealer is selling Mustangs GTs for $19k!
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/08/g...gt-for-18-995/
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/08/g...gt-for-18-995/
#253
His resources are limited. He focused on 30K cars because they bring in more profits, not because he's out of touch with the majority of people buying cars. GM as a whole has been doing that for the last two decades at least; he's fighting an uphill battle. Furthermore, the avg transaction cost for a new car is around the 30k mark, if my memory is correct. Makes sense to me for him to attack that segment if he had to pick one segment.
#254
I disagree with unanimity
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Granny Nancy---"No Endless Flow Of Money To Auto Industry"
WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Monday there would be no endless flow of money to the U.S. auto industry, and the companies could be required to pay back the money early if they don't come up with a comprehensive restructuring plan by the end of the first quarter.
Pelosi said that everyone involved in the U.S. auto industry, including management, labor unions, parts suppliers, investors and dealers, would have to make a sacrifice to ensure the continuing viability of the industry.
"We call this a barber shop: everyone's getting a hair cut," said Pelosi, speaking at a press conference in the U.S. Capitol.
She emphasized the fact that Congressional Democrats are committed to the continued existence of the U.S. auto industry, but made it clear that if the current management of the companies did not fully cooperate, lawmakers wouldn't hesitate to remove them.
Some lawmakers suggested over the weekend that the current management should be forced to resign as a condition of the federal government rescue.
Pelosi was speaking after a draft of the $15 billion rescue package was sent to the White House to be reviewed by Bush administration officials.
Pelosi said that everyone involved in the U.S. auto industry, including management, labor unions, parts suppliers, investors and dealers, would have to make a sacrifice to ensure the continuing viability of the industry.
"We call this a barber shop: everyone's getting a hair cut," said Pelosi, speaking at a press conference in the U.S. Capitol.
She emphasized the fact that Congressional Democrats are committed to the continued existence of the U.S. auto industry, but made it clear that if the current management of the companies did not fully cooperate, lawmakers wouldn't hesitate to remove them.
Some lawmakers suggested over the weekend that the current management should be forced to resign as a condition of the federal government rescue.
Pelosi was speaking after a draft of the $15 billion rescue package was sent to the White House to be reviewed by Bush administration officials.
US Speaker Pelosi: No Endless Flow Of Money To Auto Indus
This is bullshit. Since when do we live in a country where the same Senators that fucked this country up can fire the management of a company? Things will get much worse from here.
Goodbye Democracy....Hello Zimbabwe
I guess Tytler was right.
#255
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#256
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
Pelosi = New CEO of the Nationalized Auto Industry
#258
Yup, same car apparently, but the Opel looks way better. And again, it doesn't matter, because a lot of other automakers do the exact same thing. I jokingly acknowledged this in my post at the top of the page, yet I still don't see your point.
#259
Senior Moderator
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...812080318/1078
GM may rebuild Saturn rather than kill it
GM may rebuild Saturn rather than kill it
When it comes to Saturn, General Motors is a little stuck. The plucky brand that promised something different and then turned into much the same hasn't seen critical acclaim or profitability for more than ten years. GM has halted funding for new Saturn products, and its plan to Congress indicated that a sharp focus on Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC. That would appear to leave Saturn something pretty close to dead.
But GM can't simply close the Saturn shop. There are 425 Saturn dealerships, and one dealer-broker figured that GM would have to shell out $3-$4 million to each dealer if Saturn gets put down. That puts GM past the billion dollar mark even before any other cost is taken into account. And Saturn can't simply be sold either, except as a brand name and blueprints – it has no engineering nor manufacturing abilities outside of GM.
A meeting is planned for later this week to "conceive a new business model" to make Saturn profitable, because the uncertainty isn't helping anyone. Dealers don't like the sound of GM putting all of its eggs in a basket that doesn't include Saturn, customers don't like the sound of "No new product," and GM can't stay in a holding pattern and shell out money for a brand going nowhere. We hope they sort something out that restores its initial promise – and some profits – because we still have a soft spot for the otherwordly brand.
But GM can't simply close the Saturn shop. There are 425 Saturn dealerships, and one dealer-broker figured that GM would have to shell out $3-$4 million to each dealer if Saturn gets put down. That puts GM past the billion dollar mark even before any other cost is taken into account. And Saturn can't simply be sold either, except as a brand name and blueprints – it has no engineering nor manufacturing abilities outside of GM.
A meeting is planned for later this week to "conceive a new business model" to make Saturn profitable, because the uncertainty isn't helping anyone. Dealers don't like the sound of GM putting all of its eggs in a basket that doesn't include Saturn, customers don't like the sound of "No new product," and GM can't stay in a holding pattern and shell out money for a brand going nowhere. We hope they sort something out that restores its initial promise – and some profits – because we still have a soft spot for the otherwordly brand.
#260
I'm the Firestarter
Ok, so Saturn stays, and that means Pontiac and Chevy goes? Yeah right. They come up with these grand plans to FINALLY streamline their product line but when push comes to shove they can't pull it off.
What's the worst that will happen if they nuke Saturn? They can rebadge those Opels as Chevys, that's what.
There is nothing they can do at this point that will not cause a lot of pain. But doing nothing is the worst thing of all.
What's the worst that will happen if they nuke Saturn? They can rebadge those Opels as Chevys, that's what.
There is nothing they can do at this point that will not cause a lot of pain. But doing nothing is the worst thing of all.
#261
99 TL, 06 E350
#262
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
They have no idea how to get out of this mess.
Stick a fork in GM.
#263
2G TLX-S
GM has too many auto divisions. They have to be consolidated. One or more divisions have to go. There is no point of rebuilding Saturn when the brand is not going anywhere.
#264
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Let's say GM+Chrsyler disappear. Well, then a lot more Fords, Hondas, Toyotas, etc will be sold. Those companies and their suppliers will need workers, not as much, but they can cherry pick and leave the lazy, unskilled, former union leeches to be Walmart greeters or something.
#265
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Saturn they'd have to buy out...Pontiac? Are there any stand alone Pontiac dealers? because most I've seen are always a multi-brand dealer...so, is it LESS of a buyout to nix a nameplate?
Not sure, and not really saying it should be pontiac, but you see where I am going with this...and maybe...they are too.
#266
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Its trying to get themselves out of a mess they got themselves into with some sort of cost effectiveness.
Saturn they'd have to buy out...Pontiac? Are there any stand alone Pontiac dealers? because most I've seen are always a multi-brand dealer...so, is it LESS of a buyout to nix a nameplate?
Not sure, and not really saying it should be pontiac, but you see where I am going with this...and maybe...they are too.
Saturn they'd have to buy out...Pontiac? Are there any stand alone Pontiac dealers? because most I've seen are always a multi-brand dealer...so, is it LESS of a buyout to nix a nameplate?
Not sure, and not really saying it should be pontiac, but you see where I am going with this...and maybe...they are too.
#267
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
Its trying to get themselves out of a mess they got themselves into with some sort of cost effectiveness.
Saturn they'd have to buy out...Pontiac? Are there any stand alone Pontiac dealers? because most I've seen are always a multi-brand dealer...so, is it LESS of a buyout to nix a nameplate?
Not sure, and not really saying it should be pontiac, but you see where I am going with this...and maybe...they are too.
Saturn they'd have to buy out...Pontiac? Are there any stand alone Pontiac dealers? because most I've seen are always a multi-brand dealer...so, is it LESS of a buyout to nix a nameplate?
Not sure, and not really saying it should be pontiac, but you see where I am going with this...and maybe...they are too.
Too back they can't create Saturn / Buick Dealers....and kill Pontiac & GMC.
If they did that, they would still have to buy out a bunch of dealers.
So for GM it comes down to buying out dealers of single brands.
In a perfect world the remaining GM lines should be:
Chevrolet
Saturn
Cadillac
Buick
#268
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I agree that it's a mess. I think Saturn is an asset for GM more than Pontiac or GMC.
Too back they can't create Saturn / Buick Dealers....and kill Pontiac & GMC.
If they did that, they would still have to buy out a bunch of dealers.
So for GM it comes down to buying out dealers of single brands.
In a perfect world the remaining GM lines should be:
Chevrolet
Saturn
Cadillac
Buick
Too back they can't create Saturn / Buick Dealers....and kill Pontiac & GMC.
If they did that, they would still have to buy out a bunch of dealers.
So for GM it comes down to buying out dealers of single brands.
In a perfect world the remaining GM lines should be:
Chevrolet
Saturn
Cadillac
Buick
Either way, I'd kinda be sad to see pontiac go...they really should have been the performance division.
#269
The sizzle in the Steak
Thread Starter
GM needs Buick.....GMC & Pontiac...not so much.
#270
an asshole from florida
I really think they should turn saturn into a scion type brand. Maybe i just have an extremely weird lust for the astra. Although I do like the commercials for saturn now because they address that they were viewed as an old person brand
#272
#276
I disagree with unanimity
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Agreement in Concept
The White House and congressional Democrats yesterday reached an "agreement in concept" on a measure that would throw a government lifeline to the faltering Detroit auto industry but require the auto giants, their workers and creditors to quickly negotiate a plan to achieve profitability or face the prospect of bankruptcy.
The agreement calls for the government to speed $15 billion in emergency loans to the car companies as soon as next week, and for President Bush to immediately name a car czar to oversee the bailout. Under the agreement, the car czar would be required to revoke the loans unless the companies proved by March 31 that they were implementing a plan to achieve "a positive net present value," according to a senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity because final language was still under discussion.
Under the measure, if the firms fail to make progress, the car czar would be required to submit to Congress a new plan to restore them to financial viability, the official said, including the option of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. If no plan for the long-term survival of the companies were to emerge, the firms would be ineligible for any additional federal assistance.
The official said the agreement would create "three very serious sticks to ensure that this is truly what it was intended to be: bridge financing for firms that have a plan and a path to become competitive," rather than becoming "the first in a number of interminable loans that these guys can get to avoid making the hard choices."
The agreement calls for the government to speed $15 billion in emergency loans to the car companies as soon as next week, and for President Bush to immediately name a car czar to oversee the bailout. Under the agreement, the car czar would be required to revoke the loans unless the companies proved by March 31 that they were implementing a plan to achieve "a positive net present value," according to a senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity because final language was still under discussion.
Under the measure, if the firms fail to make progress, the car czar would be required to submit to Congress a new plan to restore them to financial viability, the official said, including the option of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. If no plan for the long-term survival of the companies were to emerge, the firms would be ineligible for any additional federal assistance.
The official said the agreement would create "three very serious sticks to ensure that this is truly what it was intended to be: bridge financing for firms that have a plan and a path to become competitive," rather than becoming "the first in a number of interminable loans that these guys can get to avoid making the hard choices."
Thoughts on who this "Car Czar" may be?
#278
#279
UAW likely to seek GM board seat
I found another funny:
http://www.freep.com/article/2008120.../1002/BUSINESS
http://www.freep.com/article/2008120.../1002/BUSINESS
The UAW is likely to seek a seat on General Motors Corp.’s board and expects the automaker to offer another round of hourly buyout and retirement incentives next year in the event the union grants concessions to help the automaker win federal loans.
Advertisement
UAW Local 2404 in Charlotte, N.C., posted a note to members on its Web site saying the company would seek the board seat and special attrition program in exchange for several concessions it expects to make to help GM.
GM is working to win Congressional approval of federal loans to help the automaker survive the economic downturn that has led to the worst U.S. auto sales in more than a quarter century. In all, GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have asked for as much as $34 billion in loans.
However, GM and Chrysler have said they are dangerously close to running out of operating funds. And Congressional leaders have said they want to see sacrifice from all parties if the automakers are to receive federal loans to aid in their survival.
In exchange for concessions, “the UAW seeks an equity stake in the company most likely in the form of a seat on the board of directors,” Local 2404 posted on its Web site.
In addition, it wrote: “A special attrition package would be offered in 2009 providing that the loans are granted and that the government approves using some of the money for that purpose.”
UAW leadership voted:
• To allow all three Detroit automakers to postpone their contributions to the retiree health-care trust — known as a VEBA, or voluntary employee beneficiary association — until 2012. The contributions were originally due in 2010.
• To eliminate the program known as the jobs bank and “negotiate a new provision to protect workers that other wise would have been placed in the jobs bank program.” In the jobs bank, UAW workers are paid nearly full wages after they are laid off or their jobs are eliminated. While some people in the jobs bank do other work for the company or volunteer in the community during the work day, the program is controversial because some laid-off employees are paid not to work.
The UAW first announced last Wednesday that it would suspend the jobs bank and allow the delay of VEBA payments to help the automakers.
Advertisement
UAW Local 2404 in Charlotte, N.C., posted a note to members on its Web site saying the company would seek the board seat and special attrition program in exchange for several concessions it expects to make to help GM.
GM is working to win Congressional approval of federal loans to help the automaker survive the economic downturn that has led to the worst U.S. auto sales in more than a quarter century. In all, GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have asked for as much as $34 billion in loans.
However, GM and Chrysler have said they are dangerously close to running out of operating funds. And Congressional leaders have said they want to see sacrifice from all parties if the automakers are to receive federal loans to aid in their survival.
In exchange for concessions, “the UAW seeks an equity stake in the company most likely in the form of a seat on the board of directors,” Local 2404 posted on its Web site.
In addition, it wrote: “A special attrition package would be offered in 2009 providing that the loans are granted and that the government approves using some of the money for that purpose.”
UAW leadership voted:
• To allow all three Detroit automakers to postpone their contributions to the retiree health-care trust — known as a VEBA, or voluntary employee beneficiary association — until 2012. The contributions were originally due in 2010.
• To eliminate the program known as the jobs bank and “negotiate a new provision to protect workers that other wise would have been placed in the jobs bank program.” In the jobs bank, UAW workers are paid nearly full wages after they are laid off or their jobs are eliminated. While some people in the jobs bank do other work for the company or volunteer in the community during the work day, the program is controversial because some laid-off employees are paid not to work.
The UAW first announced last Wednesday that it would suspend the jobs bank and allow the delay of VEBA payments to help the automakers.
#280
Even in times like these, the UAW is still trying to tighten their deathgrip on the Big 3's nuts. Give an inch and take a mile.... they can go eat a dick if they think they're going to fool anyone into thinking they're actually trying to help GM by getting one of their own on the BOD. Just another vote "for the UAW" when it comes to manners like strikes and fighting for compensation packages for employees.
I don't think the UAW will concede until all 3 of its "parent" companies is sucked dry, kind of like AIDS. If anything this discourages me personally from buying domestic because I no way in hell want to support that useless UAW machine. I know these cars can be made cheaper and better, so if anything I'll buy used and fix it myself.