North American Auto Industry Crisis news **Pontiac's Last Day (page 28)**
04-24-2009, 12:29 AM
#681
6G TLX-S
Consolidate, take out the best, leave all junks behind. That's the best way for GM to stay afloat.
04-24-2009, 01:55 AM
#682
As much as I hate to admit it, it makes more sense to keep Buick. There are a lot more Chinese people who want a Buick than Americans who want a Buick or a Pontiac...hell, Buick and Pontiac combined! One billion Chinese people can't be wrong.
If GM has any sense (it is debatable), they'll rebadge the G8 somwhere.
The one I don't get is GMC. Every truck there has a Chevy counterpart; there's no need for it.
My thinking:
Chevy - regular cars, trucks, and SUVs
Buick - mid-range cars and SUVs
Cadillac - luxury cars and SUVs
Pontiac - performance cars; Solstice, G4, G6, G8, and Firebird
If GM has any sense (it is debatable), they'll rebadge the G8 somwhere.
The one I don't get is GMC. Every truck there has a Chevy counterpart; there's no need for it.
My thinking:
Chevy - regular cars, trucks, and SUVs
Buick - mid-range cars and SUVs
Cadillac - luxury cars and SUVs
Pontiac - performance cars; Solstice, G4, G6, G8, and Firebird
)And I hope the G8 GXP is cheap
that'd be sweet
04-24-2009, 06:31 AM
#683
Race Director
....the only people that will benefit from this are the lawyers....
I'm sure Obama's car "czar" was in on those meetings and made some deals with Fiat to make their return to the US. Obama wants US consumers to downsize to what he considers "adequate" in a car. And Fiat has enough product at that end of the market that it can bring to the US (or have it made in the US) quickly to meet that "demand". Having Euro sized Fiat models roll off the assembly line from some former Michigan Chrysler plant by the 2012 MY is certainly possible.
I'm sure Obama's car "czar" was in on those meetings and made some deals with Fiat to make their return to the US. Obama wants US consumers to downsize to what he considers "adequate" in a car. And Fiat has enough product at that end of the market that it can bring to the US (or have it made in the US) quickly to meet that "demand". Having Euro sized Fiat models roll off the assembly line from some former Michigan Chrysler plant by the 2012 MY is certainly possible.
04-24-2009, 06:41 AM
#684
Senior Moderator
GM and Ford need to follow suit as well immediately. They need to use this opportunity to trim the fat and restructure. They cant sit around and wait.
04-24-2009, 08:25 AM
#685
Senior Moderator
So What?
Say you take the G8 and keep manufacturing it, but with Chevy badges, same car, different lable.
Pontiac was supposed to be Niche/Performance, but the niche and the brand were terribly diluted: mini-vans, SUV/CUV's, Chevy Camaro, Chevy Corvette, Saturn Sky, etc, etc.
IOW - GM never let it be what it was supposed to be and it got lost in the GM crowd. If Pontiac has/had hot-sellers that were making good money, they'll be back in re-badged form.
Say you take the G8 and keep manufacturing it, but with Chevy badges, same car, different lable.
Pontiac was supposed to be Niche/Performance, but the niche and the brand were terribly diluted: mini-vans, SUV/CUV's, Chevy Camaro, Chevy Corvette, Saturn Sky, etc, etc.
IOW - GM never let it be what it was supposed to be and it got lost in the GM crowd. If Pontiac has/had hot-sellers that were making good money, they'll be back in re-badged form.
As for Ford, they have about $21B in cash reserves so, they're not quite circling the drain. ...and CNN (TV, not .com) just reported that Ford will be increasing production.
04-24-2009, 08:53 AM
#686
Fahrvergnügen'd
Ford gave out like 500 Fiestas for people via a lottery to drive and spread their thoughts through word of mouth. I would have definitely signed up for that had I known about it.
Ford has to keep those new cars out of rental fleets though. Otherwise, I'm not going to even consider buying a new one.
04-24-2009, 08:53 AM
#687
Administrator Alumnus
Don't think so. The supply chain will get royally screwed by this and every car manufacturer will be impacted. Ford is still bleeding cash. May be in better shape than the other domestics, but by no means rosey.
04-24-2009, 12:25 PM
#689
Senior Moderator
I agree. If GM and or Chrysler went down so would Ford. The places that make parts for one make parts for all. They would be effected as well and not all would survive.
04-24-2009, 01:22 PM
#690
6G TLX-S
04-24-2009, 02:27 PM
#691
Senior Moderator
There will be a ripple effect that WILL touch the brands more dear to the hearts of those here.EDIT: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac Brand
Hopefully, GM transplants the G8 to Chevrolet as the 2010 Chevelle.
04-24-2009, 02:56 PM
#692
I had no idea about Buick being so big in China. I heard in class the other day that China is buying more cars than any other country right now and that will continue to rise as their middle class expands...so I guess good news for GM.
04-24-2009, 05:07 PM
#693
There will be a ripple effect that WILL touch the brands more dear to the hearts of those here.EDIT: GM to pull the plug on Pontiac Brand
Hopefully, GM transplants the G8 to Chevrolet as the 2010 Caprice/Impala SS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Statesman
04-24-2009, 06:33 PM
#695
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
sebring and caliber.....
no comment.
no comment.
04-24-2009, 07:23 PM
#697
04-24-2009, 09:15 PM
#699
Senior Moderator
Restructure and get it over with, and get rid of or reduce the legacy costs.Chevy and Cadillac make money, they should be part of the new GM. Buick, as has been pointed out previously in this thread, is HUGE in China, and so should stay as at least an international division. GMC should die. I won't miss Pontiac, Saab, Hummer in the least. Maybe Saturn, a little, as they were becoming a "green" brand. Then again, those cars can just be rebadged as Chevys anyway.
That is all.
04-24-2009, 11:21 PM
#701
Moderator Alumnus
04-24-2009, 11:22 PM
#702
AZ Community Team
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I don't get this.
Americans buy x number of cars. Those cars need x number of parts.
If GM dissappears, the number of cars purchased and the number of parts needed stays the same. More Fords, more Accords, no Chevys, same total number of cars.
I get the part that if GM goes bankrupt, they don't pay parts suppliers dollar for dollar on money owed and that could wipe out some (many?) suppliers.
I don't get "if GM doesn't exist, the parts suppliers will lose production".
I didn't think so.
04-25-2009, 09:04 AM
#705
Senior Moderator
I've spent some time in the Caliber....it's not hate. It's reality. I'm not sure even where to start on my hangups, as there are so many.
My hard earned money would never be used to purchase a Chrysler product....I don't care how powerful a Charger SRT-8 may be, I'd still opt for the slower TL SH-AWD (ugly as that may be, I'm certain it has top notch build quality). Heck, I'd go with the G8 hands down.
My hard earned money would never be used to purchase a Chrysler product....I don't care how powerful a Charger SRT-8 may be, I'd still opt for the slower TL SH-AWD (ugly as that may be, I'm certain it has top notch build quality). Heck, I'd go with the G8 hands down.
04-25-2009, 11:33 AM
#706
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General Motors is preparing to announce that the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.
An official announcement is expected Monday.
An official announcement is expected Monday.
04-25-2009, 06:36 PM
#707
Senior Moderator
I don't get this.
Americans buy x number of cars. Those cars need x number of parts.
If GM dissappears, the number of cars purchased and the number of parts needed stays the same. More Fords, more Accords, no Chevys, same total number of cars.
I get the part that if GM goes bankrupt, they don't pay parts suppliers dollar for dollar on money owed and that could wipe out some (many?) suppliers.
I don't get "if GM doesn't exist, the parts suppliers will lose production".
Americans buy x number of cars. Those cars need x number of parts.
If GM dissappears, the number of cars purchased and the number of parts needed stays the same. More Fords, more Accords, no Chevys, same total number of cars.
I get the part that if GM goes bankrupt, they don't pay parts suppliers dollar for dollar on money owed and that could wipe out some (many?) suppliers.
I don't get "if GM doesn't exist, the parts suppliers will lose production".
If said company is making 3x parts for company x,y,z and company z goes under now they are making 2x parts. Its possible that they need 3x to break even or come out ahead. If you reduce output jobs could be lost. If you buy said product in this quantity for this price but now you can only buy 2/3 that material price goes up. That trickles down to buyer (auto companies) in an already struggling economy which comes out to more for us.
04-26-2009, 09:30 AM
#708
Senior Moderator
on your avatar.
04-26-2009, 02:42 PM
#709
Fahrvergnügen'd
Any dealer can go to their local auction and find five billion of either of those cars in any color they want.
All the rental companies that buy those cars kill the used car market when they get sold at auction. Literally thousands of 200x Calibers and Sebrings get dumped at the same time.
It's part of the reason why the used American car market has sucked for a long time compared to Japanese and European competitors.
04-26-2009, 04:07 PM
#710
Race Director
All the rental companies that buy those cars kill the used car market when they get sold at auction. Literally thousands of 200x Calibers and Sebrings get dumped at the same time.
It's part of the reason why the used American car market has sucked for a long time compared to Japanese and European competitors.
It's part of the reason why the used American car market has sucked for a long time compared to Japanese and European competitors.
04-26-2009, 09:26 PM
#711
<table class="sidebarTBLtable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="220"><tbody><tr><td class="sidebarTBLheadline">2008 GM Vehicle Sales</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnTMcontent"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Chevrolet</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">1,801,131</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">GMC</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">376,996</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Pontiac</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">267,348</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Saturn</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">188,004</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Cadillac</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">161,159</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Buick</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">137,197</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Hummer</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">27,485</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Saab</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">21,368</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Total</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">2,980,688</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
04-26-2009, 10:51 PM
#712
E92
We've had a rental Caliber a few times in Florida, and they suck hard.
I also doubt that the G8 will go away with Pontiac shutting down. It's too new and they'd be taking too much of a hit with development costs not to keep it in production.
I also doubt that the G8 will go away with Pontiac shutting down. It's too new and they'd be taking too much of a hit with development costs not to keep it in production.
04-26-2009, 10:53 PM
#713
Idk, y u guys are complaining about GMC so much. Id rather take a GMC Denali over a tahoe, and suburban. And rather take Envoy of a Trailblazer also, not the SS but if i wanted a go fast SUV i would get a Jeep Str8, GMC's are just better looking cars period.
04-27-2009, 01:36 AM
#714
Senior Moderator
<table class="sidebarTBLtable" width="220" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="sidebarTBLheadline">2008 GM Vehicle Sales</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnTMcontent"> <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Chevrolet</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">1,801,131</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">GMC</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">376,996</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Pontiac</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">267,348</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Saturn</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">188,004</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Cadillac</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">161,159</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Buick</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">137,197</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Hummer</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">27,485</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cc10" align="left">Saab</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">21,368</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cc10" align="left">Total</td> <td class="cc10" align="right">2,980,688</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
It means nothing if they are selling 300k cars and losing money with each sale.
04-27-2009, 02:10 AM
#715
Race Director
04-27-2009, 02:13 AM
#716
Race Director
Oh wait, then people won't buy it cause it's a Chevy.
04-27-2009, 02:16 AM
#717
Moderator Alumnus
I haven't had any issues with my Chrysler and Dodge (31k for the Sebring and 11k for the Caliber). I guess I'll be in it for the long haul. Meh, it's all personal preference when it comes to cars. Personally I've never owned a domestic before and I honestly can't complain since I have the higher end models.
I've had very good luck for picking out cars (Except for the 2
Benzes I owned, will never go that route again! :shakehead )
If these damn car companies will just take their head out of their asses they wouldn't be in the f'ing mess. I believe all auto industries should be able to build quality products. Just don't understand why they have to be money hungry pricks to keep our economy down.
I wonder what would happen if a japanese auto maker like Honda take over one of the top 3.
I've had very good luck for picking out cars (Except for the 2
Benzes I owned, will never go that route again! :shakehead )If these damn car companies will just take their head out of their asses they wouldn't be in the f'ing mess. I believe all auto industries should be able to build quality products. Just don't understand why they have to be money hungry pricks to keep our economy down.
I wonder what would happen if a japanese auto maker like Honda take over one of the top 3.
04-27-2009, 02:19 AM
#718
Race Director
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,7152495.story
Chrysler cleared a major hurdle in its bid to stave off bankruptcy by reaching key labor deals Sunday with its unions in the U.S. and Canada.
A tentative pact with the United Auto Workers -- details were undisclosed -- came just hours after membership of the Canadian Auto Workers union ratified a deal late Sunday that could save Chrysler close to $200 million a year.
A tentative pact with the United Auto Workers -- details were undisclosed -- came just hours after membership of the Canadian Auto Workers union ratified a deal late Sunday that could save Chrysler close to $200 million a year.
04-27-2009, 05:22 AM
#720
Moderator
GM Press Conference is scheduled for 9:00AM EST today, 4/27/09. You can watch it live:
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/
We'll find out soon enough.
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/
We'll find out soon enough.