chungkopi

compare

Kia soul to XB
Kia forte to corolla
new sorrento or santa fe to any mid SUV
genesis v6 to avalon, maxima(same v6 price)
genesis v8 to RL
veracruz to highlander, cx9, and etc
sonata to camry
genesis coupe to eclipse, altima coupe, accord coupe(similar price)


koreans have arrived, my friend.


wait till hyundai brings hybrid, couple of trucks, and genesis prestige. you are looking at a new toyota.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

And the Chinese car makers will eventually replace where the Korean car makers have been.

chungkopi

maybe in year 2020? but they seriously need to make the car safe.

F23A4

I see a ton of the current gen ES on the roads here in NJ but 4G TLs are few and very far between....and nowhere near as common a sight as the 2004 TL was soonafter it debuted.


As far as Hyundai and Kia go, I applaud their effort. Fortunately for them, the economy has driven people to seek value over image so they're coming in at the right time with their products. Then again, if discounts on Honda and Toyota counterparts even the odds in the value department then HyunKia is going to have some problems.

Sidenote: The 2009 Sonata looks VERY sweet though. LINK; I wish the current Limited V6 was on the market when I picked up my 07 AV6.

Costco

I've been in a few different cities the past few weeks and still the 4G TL rarely rears its ugly head.... I see a lot of ES350s also, way more than I can ever count. Meanwhile, I've only seen 3 4G TLs since they came out.... weird.

Moog-Type-S

We still laugh at you

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current gen ES350 came out since 2007? If so, I don't see why it's surprising to see more of those than the TL. It's like 30 months of sales vs 6 months, not to mention the last 6 months were one of the darkest periods in the automotive world.

B K R

Same thing people were saying 15 years back when comparing Japanese vehicles to Detroits finest.
You have your opinion (or sentiments) and I have mine, but this tread is about sales figures so lets not turn it into a debate of which is the rising brand/nation in the automotive arena, there are threads in Cartalk dedicated for it.

Colin

How dare you introduce logic into this discussion

Costco

Ah, good point.

The stagnation of being an older model also explains why the TL is selling more than the ES350. People just want the newest crap. Still, the other day while I was in SF along the pier I saw an ES350 with paper plates still on it and another one still. It makes the numbers hard to believe.

SSFTSX

Honda/Toyota/Nissan is facing sales collapse due to aging japanese population and lack of interest in Japanese cars buyers. Second point is rising Yen. Remember Yen has risen in value due to current economic crises because it is one of the reserve currency of the World. while Korean won has devalued by 50%. I underlined that 50% for you. Japan is very prosperous country compared to rest of Asia with indigenous intellectual capital. Koreans can close the gap by hiring laid of employees in EU/US from others but it is devalued economy with lower pay scales.
I can forsee Honda sales volume declining with rising prices of cars more into premium segment. while Koreans more into volume sellers for common masses.

phile

VTEC Racer

Hyundai is already a larger company than Honda. What exactly are you predicting?

VTEC Racer

Could you provide some links to back up your claims or are these just your uneducated guesses?

JD23

You mean that the anecdotal evidence of some guy on the internet is less valid than hard sales data, especially when comparing a six month old car to a 2.5 year old car? I don't believe it.

SSFTSX

Uneducated guessess. Korean products are getting cheaper or they can offer deeper commissions to car dealers around the world to sale there products. which Japanese cant do with rising currency.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

now I'm in trouble!

VTEC Racer

You said that Honda/Toyota/Nissan is facing a sales collapse due to aging japanese population and lack of interest in Japanese cars buyers with the addition of a rising Yen. I would like to see some information on how you came to the conclusion that these things are the cause of lower sales, or in your words, a sales collapse, not the value of the Korean Won.

F23A4

You're supposed to use red font when posting in sarcasm.

March 09
3,225 - ES
3,231 - TL

Feb 09
2,575 - ES
2,490 - TL

Jan 09
2,971 - ES
2,317 - TL

Dec 08
5,236 - ES
3,607 - TL

Nov 08
4,116 - ES
3,160 - TL

Oct 08
4,141 - ES
4,340 - TL

NOTE: I'll bet good money that a good chunk of the TL sales in 4Q08 were 3G TLs. But the 4G did beat the ES in March. (albeit by a whopping six cars)

cp3117

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...tm?chan=search

TSX69

Hyundai & Kia Seen Using Fleet Sales to Boost Sales #s

While most automakers are reporting double-digit drops in sales each month, Hyundai and Kia continue to swim against the current and maintain (or even increase) units sold. According to Automotive News, a significant part of their success is attributable to fleet sales – large numbers of cars going directly into rental and corporate fleets. During the first quarter of 2009 alone, more than 33 percent of Hyundai's first quarter sales of 95,854 units were fleet related. Rental car sales represented nearly 35 percent of Kia's sales during the same period.

There is nothing inherently wrong with fleet sales, but many in the industry see them as a historically-abused method to inflate numbers, an inaccurate reflection of actual showroom traffic, and a potential liability for residual values. "We accept the criticism that our fleet is up," Hyundai Motor America's sales boss Dave Zuchowski said when he addressed the issue. "But our retail share also is up and outperformed the industry."

Utilized heavily by the Detroit Three in the past, fleet sales are a double-edged sword. Automakers get a strong boost in sales when the vehicles are delivered, but then pay heavy consequences with an oversaturated segment when the cars are dumped back into the used car market. It will be interesting to see how the Korean sister brands will address this repercussion in the near future.

Edward'TLS

Hyundai and Kia have nothing to worry about fleet sales hurting residual values, because their vehicles are not known to have good residual values even from the start.

charliemike

Last I checked, Koreans don't try to poison their customers.

China has a long way to go.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol well I don't know how they can "poison" car buyers....besides...if they were to sell cars here...I'm sure our government will keep an eye on them. But no doubt, it will take quite a long time.

Fishy

He's talking about the melamine additive to milk and pet foods. It falsely increases scores in protein content tests yet it kills.

Our companies and governments allowed imports of the pet food products and it killed some pets. The owner of one of the Chinese manufacturers "commited suicide" officially, but who knows who delivered the 9mm to his head.

The Chinese government and companies are as corrupt/incompetent as ours but the checks and balances provided by law and consumer agencies are not yet there.

...oh I forgot to mention the lead in Chinese kid toys.

JD23

Chinese cars will be crappy for quite awhile, but will inevitably improve with time. Korean cars were terrible 20 years ago; I wonder how many people in the 80s would have believed that Hyundai would be a credible competitor to Honda and Toyota in 2009. Even ten years ago, I would have never imagined Hyundai building cars as good as the Genesis and Genesis coupe.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, yea, I heard all about that...sometimes I'm amazed by their "technology"....they are smart people...but some of them use it in the wrong way....

Anyways, I think making cars is a different story though. I'd imagine the Chinese government would pay closer attention to car companies if they were to sell cars globally.

Edward'TLS

Well, the latest discovery on tainted Chinese products is the "drywall from Hell". See CNN, link below :

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/03/drywall.family/

If the Chinese can put "funny stuffs" into drywall, they could have done similar things to the plastic and vinyl that make up the bulk of a car's interior. When driving those cars, everyone sitting inside are going to help themselves to a delicious dose of toxic vapor released slowly into the passenger compartment.

That's how the Chinese can make products so cheap. They start substituting the real but expensive ingredients with other cheap chemicals and/or unknown stuffs which sole purpose is to fake the finished products to pass inspections.

There are so many Chinese products around nowadays that if we solely rely on our government to keep an eye on them, we would have sickened or died many times over.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That could be true too, but so far I haven't heard anything about poisonous cars. They can make cheap cars now because they copy others. That probably saves them a lot of development time and money. Then the cost for Chinese workers is pretty darn cheap (no where close to a GM labour!).

biker

Sub Entry level
TSX-2429
1 series-1057
S40-573
C30-342
A3- 243

Entry level lux
3 series-6013
C class 4274
ES -3549
A4-3494
TL-3105
G37- 2815
IS 2324
MKZ- 1995
S60-246

Mid level luxury
5 series-4319
E -1795
MKS-1178
S80-681
GS- 468
M35/45- 441
A6-388
RL- 202

Flagship
S-1159
7-792
LS-765
A8-126

Small SUV
GLK-1869
Q5-1212
RDX-740
XC60-723
EX-538
X3-392

Mid Size Luxury SUV
RX- 6237
MDX-2337
X5-2065
ML- 1838
MKX-1748
XC90-799
FX-749
Q7-672
GX- 508

April Total
BMW-15705
Benz- 14565
Lexus-14195
Acura-8813
Audi-7010
Lincoln-5973
Infiniti-4932
Volvo-4503

brizey

If anything, this shows how well marketing works.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Im quite surprised Acura sold more then Audi. Im amazed at the amount of RXs sold last month.

brizey

The RX is new. The Q5 is new. So they get a bump.

I am surprised at the mid pack sales of the RDX (I have one)--I think only the X3 is an older design. And how the heck can the G37 be down so low? The only car on the list that is its peer is the 3 series.

JD23

The G37 sales look even worse if the sedan and coupe are treated separately, which I believe they should be. The G37 sedan only sold approximately 2000.

Also, why does the C class sell so well? The appeal of that vehicle is completely lost on me. Aside from the emblem on the hood, I don't see how it is superior to any of the cars in its class.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I used to hate the new C class so much because of its styling, but somehow it grew on me and I think it looks pretty nice...lol...I have the same feeling with the TL too..ugly at first..but now I'm starting to like it....weird...

Yea, I agree, the G is...simply.."stunning." They sold less than 2000 G37 sedans last month at 19xx. Usually when you include the coupe, it will outsell the TL, but not this time around. Seems like most consumers don't care too much about its new 7AT and 22 more hp....

Infamous425

i'm not too surprised about the G37. there are only 2 infiniti dealers in the entire state of WA and both owned by the same person and both on the west side of the state. i bet theres a lot of people who've never seen one.

Black Tire

There's two E's in Mid-Class.

JD23

I'd seriously consider the G37 if I were currently looking for a new car. Unfortunately, there aren't any Infiniti dealers within 100 miles of my location. In contrast, there are MB and BMW dealers in my city.

JD23

Besides the styling, I'm wondering what is the appeal. It seems like it has less substance than the 3 series, G37, A4 and TL.

brizey

Living in a big metro area with three or four Infiniti dealers, that never occurred to me. It should have--my brother lives in Canton, OH and had to go to the Cleveland area to lease his G35. (They bring him a loaner car for scheduled service--pretty good deal.)