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Mercedes-Benz: Development and Technology News

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Mercedes-Benz: Development and Technology News

 
Old 05-15-2003, 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Incredible!! This technology will pass down to other car makers, who will actually make it work.

Wow, we went frm 6 to 7 speeds autos pretty quickly. It took forever to get from 4 speed to 5 speed autos.
True.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:46 PM
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Update:

Mercedes-Benz will offer its seven-speed automatic transmission in a wide range of models, starting immediately after unveiling the new gearbox in the S500 at the Frankfurt motor show in September. In addition to the 5.0-liter V8-powered S500, look for the electronically controlled 7G-Tronic seven-speed as standard equipment in the E500, S430, CL500 and SL500. The new unit, the first production seven-speed, eventually will be offered on other Mercedes-Benz and Maybach models as production capacity increases. The seven-speed replaces the five-speed automatic Mercedes-Benz has used since 1995, and engineers say the tranny not only improves fuel economy but also cuts 0-to-60 acceleration times. One more neat trick: The gearbox offers two reverse ratios.
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Old 05-21-2003, 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Red Nj-s
What is the point?

Fuel saving of up to 0.6 litres per 100 kilometres

:whocares:
Exactly how i feel...i meen, they must have spent tons of money in development of this, and realy for what...they could have done fine with the current 5 speed....they just wanted to 1 up BMW who had the first production 6 speed auto.
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Old 05-22-2003, 10:25 PM
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First, that 5-speed tranny, is old and needed to be replaced.....so it wasnt really a waste. Also, why wouldnt they make it a 7 speed if it makes the car faster,more fuel efficient, as well as keeping the car quiter? It makes sense to me.
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Old 05-24-2003, 11:09 PM
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Seems pointless to me, as CVT seems to be the next big step for automatics, not more gears.
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:25 PM
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holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, holy shit... i'm quivering, i think i just wet my boxers, i want one, i want one now, give me one, now... NOW!

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Old 05-28-2003, 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by gavriil




those pics are from the car the guy in poland built himself...it was in car talk under "build your own car!!"

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...build+your+own
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:57 PM
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those pics were in the thread for COMPARASION. These pics here are the REAL BENZ!
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:17 PM
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the polish dude had diff rimms
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Old 05-29-2003, 01:11 PM
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Old 06-04-2003, 10:58 PM
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Poland Rules! Polska Numer Jeden!

L8tes
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Old 08-22-2003, 07:50 AM
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Cool new features in development in future Mercedes-Benz autos

Coming to your MB model over the next few years:


The Soft-Stop function allows the vehicle to come to a particularly gentle stop, which will be much appreciated in city traffic, involving frequent stops at traffic lights. It is made possible by finely metered pressure control. The Soft-Stop function is permanently activated; only on emergency braking and when maneuvering does the system ensure that priority is given to rapid deceleration.

Start-Off Assist (SBC™ Hold) prevents the car from unintentionally creeping forwards or rolling backwards on hills and steep gradients. A brief but firm application of the brake pedal is all it takes to activate this function.


Tailback Assist (We like this on the best!) (SBC™ Stop) can be activated using the cruise control lever when the vehicle is at a standstill or travelling at a maximum of 15 km/h. The advantage of this is that in stop/go traffic the driver only needs to use the accelerator; when the driver takes his or her foot off the accelerator, SBC™ brakes the SLR to a standstill with constant deceleration. Tailback Assist can remain active up to a speed of 60 km/h. It is automatically deactivated at higher speeds. When Tailback Assist is activated, the letters "SBC S" appear in the instrument cluster.
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Old 08-22-2003, 09:15 AM
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i love the idea of Start-off assist, but tailback assist seems a little odd. they should have distance sensors so it doesn't have constant deceleration right into the person in front of you....then again, im sure they thought of that
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:47 PM
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the tailback assist is kinda like what the 745 has
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:24 PM
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I guess i just like to drive my OWN CAR....
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Old 09-07-2003, 03:34 PM
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How much of a difference will the new Mercedes 7G-TRONIC Transmission make?

Well, let me put it this way. If my car had this tranny in it, I would never crave to have a 6MT CLS. I mean...look at those ratios. Very nice.

--------------------------------------------------------

Seven speeds for improved fuel consumption and driving pleasure

Introduction autumn 2003 in the E-, S-, CL and SL-Classes
New shift principle for faster acceleration
Integrated electronics and state-of-the-art lightweight design
Eleven million Mercedes automatic transmissions built since 1959
Starting in September 2003, Mercedes-Benz will be equipping the E-, S-, CL- and SL-Classes with the new 7G-TRONIC automatic transmission. The 7G-TRONIC offers out-standing performance all round – as well as reducing fuel consumption significantly, it also performs gear changes more quickly and more smoothly than existing automatic transmissions.





To meet their ambitious goals, the Mercedes engineers designed the world's first ever volume-production passenger car transmission with seven forward speeds and two manually engaged reverse gears. The result underlines once again that Mercedes-Benz technology leads the way in the passenger car industry.

The new automatic transmission, designed to handle a continuous torque of 700 newton metres, will be standard-fitted in place of the present five-speed automatic transmission in a number of Mercedes-Benz models – initially the E 500, S 430, S 500, CL 500 and SL 500 – starting in autumn 2003.

The new 7G-TRONIC inaugurates the fifth generation of Mercedes-Benz automatic transmissions, thereby continuing a long tradition. Since 1959, Mercedes-Benz has built more than eleven million automatic transmissions – automatic transmissions are standard in the S-Class and are specified in around 88 per cent of E-Class models. In the C-Class, some 65 per cent of all Saloons, Estates and Sports Coupés are fitted with automatic transmission, and the trend is rising.



Reduced fuel consumption and improved driving pleasure

The new seven-speed automatic transmission incorporates a range of technical advances which bring significant improvements on fuel consumption, comfort and driving pleasure:

Fuel consumption: the new 7G-TRONIC reduces NEDC combined fuel consumption by up to 0.6 litres per 100 kilometres, or around five per cent, depending on model. Under everyday driving conditions, actual fuel savings of well over one litre per 100 km are possible.
Refinement: Gears are engaged between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds sooner, making the torquey V8 engine even more responsive to accelerator inputs. At the same time the transmission also operates more smoothly and more quietly.
Driving pleasure: for the same engine, acceleration times from 0 to 100 km/h are reduced by up to 0.3 seconds compared with the same Mercedes models fitted with the previous five-speed automatic transmission, while as much as 2.1 seconds can be shaved off the 60 to 120 km/h time, which is particularly useful for speedy overtaking.
Fuel consumption and performance figures in detail (models with previous five-speed automatic transmission in brackets):



Optimal ratios for all driving situations





The superior performance of the new automatic transmission is due to a number of different design modifications. Most important among these is the increase in the number of forward speeds, from five to seven. This increases the overall spread, yet at the same time the ratios are closer together than on the five-speed transmission. In this way optimal ratios are provided for virtually all driving situations. On the five-speed transmission the ratio of the highest to the lowest gear was 4.33, whereas the high/low ratio for the new seven-speed automatic transmission is 6.0. This gives the electronic control unit which triggers the gear changes even greater scope for maximising fuel economy and smoothness. One important benefit of this is a significant reduction in average engine speeds. At 100 km/h, for example, engine speeds are reduced by between 800 and 1000 rpm depending on operating conditions. The optimal rev-matching results in more fuel-efficient, quieter operation.



The shift principle too has been significantly enhanced. When it is necessary to downshift quickly through several gears for speedy acceleration, for example in response to "kickdown", the new seven-speed automatic transmission resorts to a so called "sliding multiple downshift", rather than performing gear changes one after the other. As the name implies, the individual gearshifts partially overlap. For example while the transmission is still changing down from seventh to sixth gear, it will already be initiating the change from sixth to fifth, and before that operation in turn is completed, the transmission will already be starting to change from fifth to fourth. This speeds the overall process of shifting through the gears and at the same time results in greater smoothness, making the individual gear changes virtually imperceptible. The speedier gear changes produce a noticeable increase in agility. Gears are engaged between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds sooner than with the five-speed automatic, resulting in improved acceleration and tractive power.


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Old 09-07-2003, 04:11 PM
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very impressive, hopefully other car companies will follow with similar.

the fact that it has 9 total gears doesn't drive me crazy, its the fact that it can skip gears that does
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Old 09-08-2003, 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Python2121
very impressive, hopefully other car companies will follow with similar.

the fact that it has 9 total gears doesn't drive me crazy, its the fact that it can skip gears that does
Well, VW is already using their 6 speed auto tranny in lower end cars like the New Beetle. The Tuareg also gets it. You know that you will see it as an option on pretty much ALL their cars. And then you know you will see it with Audis (if not available already). Then you know that BMW is in the game as well. And after that the Japanese marques will follow. Already hearing rumors of Lexus having one ready. So yeah, we will see it all over the place soon. 6 speeds is much better than 5 in my opinion. 7? I am not super convinced. I just dont understand why the Germans are always first with cool, performance-enhancing features like these and not us. Pathetic.

Yeah OK, the Magnaride. Not exactly an inovation though.
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Old 09-08-2003, 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by gavriil
Well, VW is already using their 6 speed auto tranny in lower end cars like the New Beetle. The Tuareg also gets it. You know that you will see it as an option on pretty much ALL their cars. And then you know you will see it with Audis (if not available already). Then you know that BMW is in the game as well. And after that the Japanese marques will follow. Already hearing rumors of Lexus having one ready. So yeah, we will see it all over the place soon. 6 speeds is much better than 5 in my opinion. 7? I am not super convinced. I just dont understand why the Germans are always first with cool, performance-enhancing features like these and not us. Pathetic.

Yeah OK, the Magnaride. Not exactly an inovation though.

You mean like cab-forward? You mean like wide-track?
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Old 09-08-2003, 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by gavriil
I just dont understand why the Germans are always first with cool, performance-enhancing features like these and not us. Pathetic.

Yeah OK, the Magnaride. Not exactly an inovation though.
My 2k2 Grand Prix has a four-speed auto ... Meanwhile GM sells their six-speed trannies to companies like Mercedes ...

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Old 09-08-2003, 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by charliemike
Meanwhile GM sells their six-speed trannies to companies like Mercedes ...

GM only produces 4sp auto trannies and it's sold some of them to BMW in the past.

It's a rumour that BMW is using 5sp steptronic trannies from GM.

GM doesn't even have a 6sp tranny as far as I know.
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Old 09-08-2003, 12:17 PM
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Re: How much of a difference will the new Mercedes 7G-TRONIC Transmission make?

Originally posted by gavriil
Well, let me put it this way. If my car had this tranny in it, I would never crave to have a 6MT CLS. I mean...look at those ratios. Very nice.
[/IMG]
Well, it's still an auto tranny.

What is important to know is that you have to drop some serious bucks to get this tranny (E500 and up).

An SMG or DSG type of transmission is clearly superior solution.
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:23 PM
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Re: Re: How much of a difference will the new Mercedes 7G-TRONIC Transmission make?

Originally posted by agisd
Well, it's still an auto tranny.

What is important to know is that you have to drop some serious bucks to get this tranny (E500 and up).

An SMG or DSG type of transmission is clearly superior solution.
If the gear ratios are right and you can maintain control some way, Id have to disagree...We'll see how it all plays out once the cars are on the road though
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Old 09-08-2003, 02:16 PM
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Re: Re: Re: How much of a difference will the new Mercedes 7G-TRONIC Transmission make?

Originally posted by mc222
If the gear ratios are right and you can maintain control some way, Id have to disagree...
Exactly! I totally agree. If the ratios were tighter in my CLS, I'd be craving the 6MT a lot less. Even with one less gear.
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Old 09-08-2003, 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by agisd
GM only produces 4sp auto trannies and it's sold some of them to BMW in the past.

It's a rumour that BMW is using 5sp steptronic trannies from GM.

GM doesn't even have a 6sp tranny as far as I know.

1. I do not think it's a rumor that GM sells auto trannies to BMW. The 5-Speed STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission in the 5 series (the one "passing away" now) is a GM tranny. I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure it is. It's the same tranny in the CTS.

2. Which makes your statement wrong Agi about GM producing only 4sp auto trannies. The one in the CTS (and a lot of other vehicles are 5 speed trannies).
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Old 09-08-2003, 02:22 PM
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Re: Re: How much of a difference will the new Mercedes 7G-TRONIC Transmission make?

Originally posted by agisd
Well, it's still an auto tranny.

What is important to know is that you have to drop some serious bucks to get this tranny (E500 and up).

An SMG or DSG type of transmission is clearly superior solution.
True, but auto trannies have come a long way lately. It's close second to the clutchless semi-automoatic options.
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Old 09-08-2003, 02:39 PM
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The technology behind all this is great, and its awesome to see where it will go and how it will perform.

But nothing can replace the feeling of that third pedal, i just cant explain it.
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Old 09-09-2003, 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by sarlacc23
The technology behind all this is great, and its awesome to see where it will go and how it will perform.

But nothing can replace the feeling of that third pedal, i just cant explain it.
True. So let's have a 3rd pedal only it being engageable/disengageable Wonna play? Have it on. Hit traffic? Disengage.
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:12 PM
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So now I read that the Ford Five Hundred will get a 6 speed automatic in 2005.
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:21 PM
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So now I read that the Ford Five Hundred will get a 6 speed automatic in 2005.
You can add GM to that list too, as GM and Ford are teaming up together in an alliance to develop a six-speed automatic transmission for front-wheel-drive vehicles
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by cusdaddy
You can add GM to that list too, as GM and Ford are teaming up together in an alliance to develop a six-speed automatic transmission for front-wheel-drive vehicles
THat's right. I read about that about 2 months ago. SO it's probably the same tranny.
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:32 PM
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I like the Audi/VW DSG. ( Direct Shift/ Double Clutch Gearbox!) Imagine you can engage 2 gears at the same time, making the shift in 0 time!.. There is no need to lift the throtle off at changing the gears!

It is SMG like gearbox too.

Real nice.
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Old 09-10-2003, 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by gavriil
True. So let's have a 3rd pedal only it being engageable/disengageable Wonna play? Have it on. Hit traffic? Disengage.
i seriously dont understand why some car manufacturer hasnt already doen this, especially with the development of SMG. doesnt seem like it would be very hard to have the comptuer disengage the clutch pedal and handle the clutch itself when you want... sigh maybe someday
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Old 09-11-2003, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Davediego
i seriously dont understand why some car manufacturer hasnt already doen this, especially with the development of SMG. doesnt seem like it would be very hard to have the comptuer disengage the clutch pedal and handle the clutch itself when you want... sigh maybe someday

Tell me about it
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Old 09-14-2003, 06:33 AM
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Didn't Saab have something like that where the clutch was electronic but the car still had a 5 sp shifter? I seem to remember a "short take" in C&D sometime in the mid 90's.
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Old 09-15-2003, 01:23 PM
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Bugs bite Mercedes-Benz quality; glitches lead to go-slower approach

Bugs bite Mercedes-Benz quality; glitches lead to go-slower approach


By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News

FRANKURT -- Top executives at Mercedes-Benz admit that a wave of increasingly complex electronic products proved so difficult to debug that the German automaker is modifying its first-at-all-costs approach to technology.

Quality glitches caused by Mercedes' Comand system proved maddeningly difficult to fix two years ago, forcing the automaker to boost product testing by 50 percent.

Problems with Comand, which integrates the onboard navigator, entertainment system and phone, forced Mercedes to buy back 2,000 E-class sedans from U.S. customers. The quality glitches also created tensions with Robert Bosch GmbH, a key Mercedes supplier.

This is the first time Mercedes-Benz has acknowledged the widespread quality problems. During an interview with Automotive News at the Frankfurt auto show, a top company executive said Mercedes is working hard to improve its ranking on consumer quality surveys.

"We have a problem because we are the technology leader," said Juergen Hubbert, the DaimlerChrysler board member responsible for Mercedes cars. "We were not talking about (the improvement) because you have to see it. On the next survey you will see we are on our way."

Hubbert was referring to J.D. Power's most recent Initial Quality Survey, which measures a vehicle's quality three months after it is purchased. The survey, which was released in spring, ranked Mercedes 15th among brands, barely above the industry average.

Problems began to crop up two years ago, when Mercedes-Benz had trouble integrating Comand's features. Bosch supplied the system's navigator.

When Mercedes-Benz connected Comand's electronic systems, the screen would go blank and systems would malfunction. The system created other glitches. For example, the system inadvertently would activate the electric seats and drain the battery.

A Bosch source says Mercedes asked the supplier to integrate Comand's features after Mercedes had trouble doing so. But the effort to debug Comand strained Bosch's engineering resources.

According to a Mercedes executive, Bosch placated its angry customer by firing a top executive in its Blaupunkt unit, which produces navigators, radios and other electronics. The Mercedes source did not name the executive, and the Bosch spokesman declined to comment.

But it is known that senior Bosch executive Stephan Rojahn left the company without explanation late in 2001.

Rojahn, a highly regarded manager who was on Bosch's fast track, was responsible for Blaupunkt. Rojahn later joined Durr AG, a manufacturer of paint equipment.

Comand's quality glitches proved difficult to track down. The electronics would fail sporadically, making it difficult to identify and fix problems.

"When you looked into it, it never happened again - until the next time," Hubbert said.

As problems persisted, consumers began to downgrade their opinions of Mercedes quality. According to J.D. Power data, Mercedes owners reported 132 problems per 100 vehicles, just above the industry average of 133 problems.

"Seven out of our top 10 problems are with electronics, communications, telematics, radio, telephone - activities where we had put a lot of electronic systems in the car," said Hubbert.

The good news, according to the company, is that the electronics problems have been fixed.

"What we have and what we deliver to the market is of significantly higher quality than it ever was," said Hans-Joachim Schoepf, executive vice president for Mercedes-Benz's car development and engineering.

To improve quality, Mercedes-Benz increased its product testing by 50 percent. "We do more testing than we ever did, especially with debugging," Schoepf said. "The real problem is that we underestimated the debugging phase in new electronics systems, especially multimedia."

The company also redesigned its Comand system so that it can diagnose a problem without the customer's intervention.

"If something happens in the system, it repairs itself," Schoepf says. "You won't see it as a customer."

Mercedes also has dispatched employees to its suppliers to become technology experts. The company has assigned staffers to Motorola, Nokia and Siemens, among others.

"If you want to work together with your supplier you have to have expertise," said Schoepf. "Otherwise, they can tell you anything."

Schoepf also says Mercedes made sure that dealers were kept informed so that they could fix vehicles as they came in for service.

Mercedes-Benz eventually changed suppliers, awarding the navigator contract to Harman/Becker Automotive Systems.

Bosch's other contracts with Mercedes have not been affected.

"It was clear the multimedia side has nothing to do with the fuel injection, sensor or the engine control unit," Schoepf said.

The experience has not deterred Mercedes-Benz from its goal of being the auto industry's technology leader in safety and fuel economy.

For example, Mercedes considers its Pre-Safe crash avoidance system, which activates the brakes when it senses an impending crash, to be a key safety technology.

But company executives are debating the need to adopt less essential technologies quickly. For example, Mercedes-Benz has not moved quickly to introduce Internet access or text message service.

Mercedes executives are troubled by the brand's drop in quality ratings. But Joachim Schmidt, head of worldwide sales and marketing, argues that customer loyalty remains high.

"We have problems but ... we are very successful in terms of sales and we are very successful in terms of brand awareness," Schmidt said. "We have the highest loyalty rate in the automotive industry."

Schmidt says Mercedes dealers have been able to fix nearly all problems.

"We have customers that have high expectations," he says. "There is no sign that the situation is grave. Our image is great."
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Old 09-15-2003, 03:12 PM
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They can build a 500hp car but can't get the door to close. Who gives a shit about image. The image is getting to be "I paid to much for this car". Truly sad.
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Old 09-15-2003, 07:00 PM
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I hope it's not because the Chrysler half is bringin down the good half...
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by chris3240929
I hope it's not because the Chrysler half is bringin down the good half...
If this is true. Mecedes asks for it and deserves it. Who said it would be easy to overtake the third largest auto maker in the US.
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Old 09-21-2003, 05:20 PM
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Mercedes going against the Golf cabrio?





What the hell is Mercedes thinking?
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