Edward'TLS

Rotary engines are notorious for their high fuel consumption and high engine oil consumption. I guess even the latest version still hasn't changed much after all these years of advancements.

Six Shifter

rotary's used to require about an addit quart every 1000 miles - that's the way it was on my '74 RX-4. It started out being worse, but when I asked the dealer why my oil consumption was sooooo bad, they check out the vin and replaced my engine within 2 weeks ... seemed I had an early production model and the later models had had changed the internal seals to address the oil consumption problem. Still used more oil than piston engine, but no where nearly as bad as the first one that was in the car.

shellys-tsx

This guy came into my dealership, he was the not so proud owner of the rx8 and said that Mazda was going to buy it back. He said he had the same problem with the oil. He also said that he only got 12mpg! Wow. He was very happy to give it back.

Red Nj-s

That would not be a deciding factor in my purschase at all.

kansaiwalker1

I think I would get a G35C instead.....

Python2121

werd, i cant see why anyone else wouldn't!

someone give me one thing that this car has on the g35 besides handling that makes it worth the trouble?

SilverCL225hp

Frankly, the only reason Mazda wants to make rotary engine is probably because it is the only carmaker today still making it, so it would make it unique. Tell me, what is so special about Mazda vehicles besides this rotary technology? Nothing. Besides the subjective things like the looks and stuff, Mazda has nothing so special to attract more customers.....is it very reliable? No. Is it the best handling? No. Is it the fastest? No. Is it the cheapest? No. Is it AWD specialist? No. Is it turbo expert? No. Is it luxurious enough? Hell no. Rotary engine is the only thing Mazda has that others don't. That's why it is so stubborn in making it. Even so, Mazda still couldn't solve rotary engine's congenital downsides. If RX-8 is equipped with a high performance pistons-used engine, it probably still attracts that many buyers, if not more. However, afterall only time could tell, let's wait 10 years to see if there is still any RX-8 running on the streets or not.

astro

you guys are messed up... my porsche requires an oil check every tank....it uses 2 quarts of mobil1 synthetic every 1000miles...the damn thing holds about 14.5 quarts for god's sake!

gavriil

Mazda presents limited-production - Mazda RX-8 Mazdaspeed version
Posted by: kak on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 12:04 AM CET

Mazda Motor Corporation announces the release of a limited edition RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version, which is based on the RX-8 and fitted with Mazdaspeed brand tune-up parts for enhanced sports driving performance. The RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version goes on sale from the middle of February at Mazda Anfini and Mazda dealerships throughout Japan. The new RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version is based on the RX-8 Type S. Mazda has tuned up the engine using it's exclusively designed PCM (Powertrain Control Module) to match the modified intake and exhaust systems of the Mazdaspeed Version, as well as going through balance adjustments around the eccentric shaft in response to the lightweight flywheel. Mazda has also tuned up the suspension and fitted aero parts to further enhance sports driving performance. Those modifications, carried out under Mazda's strict quality control system, provide the RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version with well-balanced performance.

In addition, the RENESIS rotary engine has been further improved to deliver greater aerodynamic performance and even better sports car driving performance. Sharp, stable maneuverability is further enhanced while maintaining ride comfort, and the vehicle's exterior design supervised by the RX-8 chief designer expresses high performance.

The sales volume of the RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version will be limited to 300 units.

Main Features of the RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version

1. Specially tuned engine

- Exclusively designed PCM (Powertrain Control Module) to match the modified intake and exhaust systems.
- Customized fresh air ducts for efficient engine air intake.
- Customized sports muffler that produces a rich engine sound and reduces exhaust pressure (with catalyst).
- Special spark plugs to stabilize combustion.

2. Use of Mazdaspeed brand parts

Engine related parts
- Double oil cooler set with improved cooling performance to handle hard driving.
- Lightweight flywheel and balance adjustments around the eccentric shaft for sharp engine response.
- Earthing kit to stabilize engine performance.

Chassis related parts
- Sports spring set to enhance driving stability (lowers vehicle by 20 mm).
- Mono-tube type shock absorbers that deliver both excellent high speed cornering performance and a comfortable ride.
- Fade resistant brake pad to enhance initial braking force and vehicle control.

Body reinforcement parts
- Front/rear strut bar and performance bar set to increase body rigidity.
- Large-diameter front/rear stabilizer bars to control rolling during cornering.

Exterior parts
- Exterior design by the RX-8 chief designer beautifully expresses driving performance with the front nose, rear under skirt, side skirt set, rear wing and Mazdaspeed ornaments, while maintaining the car's original balance.

3. Body colors

The Mazda RX-8 Mazdaspeed Version is available in two colors: exclusive Strato Blue Mica with a high quality and striking appearance and Sunlight Silver Metallic, which is popular for its direct expression of sports driving.

Pic and source here:

http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=mo...rder=0&thold=0

gavriil

Looks pretty good with that body kit

gavriil

Additional pics here:

http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=mo...rder=0&thold=0

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Ah can we have it in US? Maybe not.. and only 300 units a year... that is make this not a production car

charliemike

Nothing mentioned about horsepower figures

Minch00

Would American consumers be able to purchase that Mazdaspeed kit?

gavriil

Not officially yet, though I am guessing it will come here eventually as an add-on kit.

Red Rider

Mazda will claim 500 H.P., 3 months after the cars are shipped they will dyno at 220

Reddly9007

looks better then the original, i think i still like the old one better. Yea they made that mistake the first time about horsepower, guess they don't want to do it again. Idiots!

Black CL-S 4-Life

Looks good. How much will it cost?

proaudio22

Damn, looks really good. Of course, unlike some of you - I like the RX-8 as it is. This is just beautiful, nice shade of blue. I wanna see some performance numbers.

http://car.kak.net/bilder/mazda/mazda_rx8-105s.jpg

Chaptorial

Only in Japan? :thumbsdn:

amisconception

looks amazing, i want one

SpeedyV6

2003 Sports Car Shoot-Out: Nissan 350Z vs. Mazda RX-8
Introduction


One is the rebirth of a legend, the other a new twist on an old formula. Both are designed to look fast and go even faster, and both carry price tags that keep them well within reach of the average buyer. Their low-slung stances and high-powered engines help them deliver razor-sharp handling and fierce acceleration, but both can be docile when necessary.

Yet as similar as the Nissan 350Z and Mazda's RX-8 are in purpose, the ways in which they go about their mission are worlds apart. The Nissan relies on the brutish power of its V6 power plant and a tightly wound suspension to deliver its sizzling performance, while the RX-8 uses an unconventional rotary engine, more compliant suspension and even an extra set of doors to round out its character.

Such disparate personalities make choosing one over the other that much more difficult, but after a week of back-to-back driving we were able to pick a favorite. Whether our conclusion meshes with your idea of the perfect sports car depends on what you're looking for, but rest assured that either car delivers outstanding performance, eye-catching looks and enough features to keep you comfortable. We may have picked a winner, but when you have a choice of two sports cars this good at these prices, nobody loses.
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c....e.....Nissan*

Second Place: 2003 Nissan 350Z
Yeah, we know, the 350Z is faster at the drag strip. And had we done hot laps on a road course, it might have turned in the fastest times there, too. It's got the big V6, the huge 18-inch wheels and stylish lines that get second glances even in L.A.

But in the end, sports cars are more than just numbers and pictures on a page. They are about how you feel in the driver seat and how much you're dying to get back in it when you're not. There's no doubt that the Z has more than enough mojo to inspire a few desktop daydreams, but ultimately, the RX-8 was the one that left us smirking.

The contender from the Nissan corner was our own long-term 350Z Track model that has been with us since the beginning of the year. Its gleaming Daytona Blue paint, bright alloy wheels and gold Brembo brakes haven't lost a bit of their luster, and with over 15,000 miles on the clock, the snarling V6 is well broken in and going strong. Months of seat time have generated a healthy volume of opinions, but it was the back-to-back drives with the RX that proved to be the real eye-openers.

We've been on-again, off-again fans of the Z's precisely dialed-in suspension throughout the year. Its ability to provide serious grip and accurate feedback through corners has made it a favorite of the more enthusiastic drivers on our staff, but it has taken more than a few hits for its unyielding ride that makes more mundane driving considerably less enjoyable.

While all 350Zs have identical suspension setups, the Track model's lightweight 18-inch wheels and stiff-shouldered Bridgestone Potenza tires give it some added grip in addition to a slightly stiffer overall feel than some of the lesser models. Threading through the testing slalom, the Z was flat, quick to turn in and consistently on the verge of sending its tail in a completely different direction — nothing new for a short-wheelbase, rear-wheel-drive car.

Quick steering and ever-present torque allow for momentary corrections that permit the Z to push hard toward the limit, but it required some steady hands to get a good time without spinning into the dirt. At 64.9 mph, the 350Z was quicker than the RX-8 through the cones, but test-driver notes indicate that it required considerably more effort than the Mazda to extract the Z's quicker time. Acceleration numbers were solid, with a 6.0-second run to 60 and a 14.6-second quarter-mile time. Not the fastest numbers for a Z, but not bad for one with so many journalist miles on it.

As capable as it is on the track, however, finding the Z's limits on the street requires even more finesse — and guts. Moderate-speed maneuvers barely dig into its formidable grip, while higher-speed corners put you right up against its limits without much of a safety net on the other side. There's stability control on hand to help out, but it's hardly the kind of assistance you want to rely on. Whereas the RX-8 feels forgiving and light on its feet, the 350Z is unyielding and heavy. It doesn't delicately pick its way through turns — it steamrolls right through them.

And for the other 90 percent of the time when you're not playing out your Gran Turismo fantasies, the 350Z's suspension setup beats you to death on city streets. Every crack in the pavement feels as if you just ran over a parking lot curb and every pothole sends shudders through the cabin that make you wonder how long the body is going to hold out. Our long-termer also suffered from excessive tire noise — a situation we have only recently found the remedy for.

Laying into the full power of the Z's 287-horse V6 has its moments, but even that cheap thrill loses some of its zing over time. There's no discernable power peak so every stomp of the pedal generates a nearly identical reaction. It's more like an on-off switch than a gas pedal. It's hard to knock a car for having power at every rpm, but more than one driver complained of the V6's lack of personality. Then again, no one has grown tired of the six's sultry exhaust note yet, so go figure.

Other often-lodged complaints include an interior covered in far too many layers of cheap plastic trim. Even so, we find the cabin to be one of the Z's less offensive deficiencies. The overall design reflects the way a sports car should be set up — prominent gauges and not much else. The stereo is simple enough, the climate controls work well and even the auxiliary gauges across the top of the dash are a nice retro touch.

Taller drivers can fit but it takes considerable time adjusting the controls to get comfortable. The natural seating position leaves you peeking out over the window sills and rearward visibility is poor, as you might expect. The seats themselves are firm but comfortable; although, some drivers complained about their lack of lateral support considering the car's ability to generate big-time Gs.

If it sounds as if the Z has completely fallen out of favor with us, we can assure you that is hardly the case. Like most cars, bosses or girlfriends, the longer they're around, the more you find fault with them, deserving or otherwise. This may have put it at a disadvantage to the RX-8 in this test, but we're confident that over time the Mazda would prove to be the more livable machine.

All-out speed and handling is one thing, but putting it all together into a package that's as refined as it is fast is another. For those who are willing to give up a fair amount of comfort in the name of performance, there are few cars that can match the Z. If, however, your performance tastes are less demanding, the Nissan's bumpy ride and stark interior put it a notch below the Mazda on the desirability chart.




First Place: 2004 Mazda RX-8
With four doors and a 1.3-liter rotary engine, the Mazda RX-8 is hardly your typical sports car. It looks different, sounds different and most certainly drives different than any sports car of the last decade.

In some instances, such a level of uniqueness might relegate a vehicle to the "quirky" category and nothing more. In this case, however, the Mazda's distinctive character and impressive performance earned it the nod over a Z car that had it all but beat on paper.

So how did the jack-of-all-trades RX-8 manage to pull out a win over the all-powerful 350Z? Consider it a collaborative effort between its remarkable suspension, innovative engine and comfortable cabin. Hardly an unusual collection of traits, but the way in which they come together in the Mazda gives it a feel that the Nissan simply can't touch.

Introduced earlier this year, the RX-8 is a spiritual successor to the long line of RX-7s that preceded it. Unlike those classic coupes, however, the RX-8 adds a new twist in the form of reverse-opening rear doors that afford access to a pair of sizable rear seats. Their clever concealment allows the car to retain its coupelike profile while at the same time offering four-passenger capability.

It's a unique and practical arrangement, but we found it of dubious value. Sure, it makes getting into the rear seats considerably easier than in most coupes, and once you're in the seats, they're reasonably comfortable. But in the end, they're not comfortable enough for anybody to really want to sit back there for any length of time, so the car's ability to mimic a sedan is a stretch at best.

But put aside the idea that the RX-8 is anything but a pure sports car, and the results will rarely disappoint you. From the moment you slide into the driver seat, it's apparent that this car was made for driving. The seating position feels natural from the start and the shifter is right where you want it. Forward visibility is excellent and even the view out the back isn't all that bad. Like the Z, the RX-8 features a tachometer front and center with auxiliary gauges on each side. It's a simple, easy-to-read setup that's more upscale than you would expect for a car in this price range.

Getting it fired takes a few more spins of the starter than most cars, but once it's humming the diminutive rotary engine settles down to a barely audible idle. Stab the throttle and you're greeted by a high-pitched whine that instantly clues you in that there's something different about the lump under this car's hood. To some the RX's exhaust note sounds disappointingly feeble next to the roar of the Z's V6, but we grew to love the Mazda's distinct sound.

Generating 238 horsepower from a measly 1.3 liters, the RX-8's rotary engine is a marvel of efficiency and smoothness. Its small size and minimal weight allow a more advantageous placement within the car, giving it an almost midengined feel. Its power peaks at a lofty 8,500 rpm (redline is 9,000), but the real surge begins around five grand so you're not completely left out in the cold at midrange speeds. As you might expect, low-end power is notably absent, a trait that's magnified after a drive in the torque-rich 350Z that never exhibits a weak spot.

Track testing yielded a best 0-to-60-mph time of 6.6 seconds and a quarter-mile run of 15.1 seconds. Without much off-the-line torque, the RX isn't much of a stoplight king, but once underway it makes up ground quickly. Its quarter-mile speed of just over 92 mph puts the Mazda about five miles per hour behind the Nissan. The numbers don't lie, if you're looking to dust off local high schoolers, the RX-8 isn't the car to do it with.

But what it lacks in straight-line performance, it more than makes up for in the turns as the RX-8 is a supreme back-road corner carver. Quick steering, strong brakes and a predictable suspension have a way of making modestly talented drivers feel confident and the RX-8 delivers all three.

Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion. Midcorner bumps are soaked up without a hitch, and even the stability control system stays out of the way until absolutely necessary. And all this despite the fact that it has none of the teeth-rattling tendencies of the Nissan.

Aiding in the Mazda's tossability is its short-throw shifter that snicks from gear to gear with little effort and precise movements. Although the wide power band makes constant shifting unnecessary, the ability to call up a new ratio with the snap of a wrist is always a welcome feature. The ultrasmooth power delivery of the rotary engine is another bonus, as it's able to spin contentedly at well over 7,000 rpm without even the slightest hint of strain. There's an audible warning as you near the redline and we heard it more than a few times.

As adept as the RX-8 is at flinging its way through mountain switchbacks, it's equally capable of managing the everyday commute. The same suspension that sticks to every undulation in the pavement also manages to deliver a compliant ride that's more sedan than sports car. With the Z, you're constantly reminded of its performance potential by its buckboard ride, while the RX masks its abilities until you feel like exploiting them. It's a personality that's easy to live with as opposed to one that you learn to accept.

Mazda likes to say that the RX-8 has a dual personality because of its backseat and extra pair of doors, but we found its ability to pose as both track star and commuter car the Mazda's most appealing combination. Compromise is rarely the best recipe for true performance cars, but in the Mazda's case, it offers just enough of everything to make it hard not to like. Then consider its stylish and comfortable interior, usable rear seats and very reasonable price, and it's easy to see why it makes the 350Z look crude in comparison. The Z may be faster, but the RX-8 is the better sports car.



Conclusion
Putting the 350Z and the RX-8 through their paces not only revealed their respective strengths and weaknesses, it showcased just how far sports cars have come since the days of the original 240Z and RX-7. While those icons of the sports car world were overflowing with personality and performance, their modern-day successors have all that and more.

With its throaty V6, minimalist interior and slightly retro looks, the 350Z is exactly what many sports car shoppers are looking for. It has more potential than most drivers will ever require and even when you're just cruising slowly, its shape rarely fails to turn a few heads. Knocking the Z down a notch for its hard-edged suspension might seem like an overly critical comment on a performance-oriented car, but after experiencing the handling ability of the Mazda, it's clear that such an unyielding setup isn't necessary for maximum fun.

Although most editors agreed that the RX-8 would be just as good with two less doors and a more traditional shape, no one was complaining after experiencing the car from the driver seat. With its lightweight feel, incredibly smooth power delivery and stylish cabin, the RX-8 offers a combination of performance and comfort that few sports cars can match. Its personality doesn't overwhelm you at first, but spend any amount of time behind the wheel and the value of proper balance, minimal weight and a precisely tuned suspension become immediately obvious. If the RX-8 represents the future of the sports car, we can't wait to see what's next.

Specifications and Performance

Performance Mazda RX-8 Nissan 350Z
0-to-60-mph acceleration, sec. 6.6 6.0
Quarter-mile acceleration, sec. 15.1 14.6
Quarter-mile speed, mph 92.8 97.7
60-to-0-mph braking, feet 113.9 118.4
600-ft slalom, mph 64.6 64.9



Dimensions

Exterior Dimensions & Capacities Mazda RX-8 Nissan 350Z
Length, in. 174.3 169.6
Width, in. 69.7 71.5
Height, in. 52.8 51.9
Wheelbase, in. 106.4 104.3
Curb weight, lbs. 3,029 3,225
Turning circle, ft. 34.8 35.3



Interior Dimensions & Capacities Mazda RX-8 Nissan 350Z
Front headroom, in. 38.2 38.2
Front legroom, in. 42.7 42.6
Front shoulder room, in. 54.8 53.6
Rear headroom, in. 36.8 N/A
Rear legroom, in. 32.3 N/A
Rear shoulder room, in 53.2 N/A



Engine & Transmission Specifications

Engine and Transmission Mazda RX-8 Nissan 350Z
Engine type Rotary V6
Displacement, liters 1.3 3.5
Horsepower (SAE) @ rpm 238 @ 8,500 287 @ 6,200
Max. Torque, lb-ft @ rpm 159 @ 5,900 274 @ 4,800
Transmission Six-speed manual Six-speed manual
Observed Fuel Economy N/A 19
EPA Fuel Economy City/Hwy, mpg 18/24 20/26

Completete photo gallery: http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c...age2photo.html

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c....e.....Nissan*
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c...9/page001.html
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c...9/page002.html
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c...9/page003.html
http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/c...9/page004.html

chef chris

Rx8 is good in theory, but they still have work to do.

It still looks weird & needs to prove it's reliability over time.

Chaptorial

1st place for the Rx-8? I'd go with a 350z over the RX in a heartbeat.

einsatz

OK, Why exactly did they pick the RX-8 over the Z again? Because it's for people who demand less performance and want prettier interiors? It's a "Sports Car Shoot-Out" and less performance wins? WTF?!

SiGGy

taking the straight line acceleration out of the game (which keep in mind the RX8 in the US is hampered my emmisions). It does just fine dude... stops faster, and handles the slalom as well as the Z (.3 away anyway)

And as they said, is easier to achieve those numbers. More confidence inspiring.

heyitsme

the fact still remains, its a 30k car that can barely break 15's.

sdho

i'll be waiting for the next generation for both cars...considering how many recall on the new cars lately...

gavriil

You know...many times I have been thinking about the above. A good example was my experience with the 2.8 and the 3.0 liter inline engine from BMW. It never excited me even in M3 (M Roadster previous generation) trim. I felt ashamed to write it in my reviews of these cars, just because everyone was raving about that engine. I just limited myself in writing that the sound was nothing to right mother about and that the torque was always there.

Seriously though, the engine in our CLS is a lot more exciting to me. Why? Because of the fact that when above 5K rpm, it changes personalities.

I also had mixed feelings when I stepped from my 1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD into the CLS. Engine-wise. Yes the Mitsu 4G63 engine had a TON of lag, but when the boost kiked at 3K rpm, the engine's personality also changed.

Compared to the above experience, experiencing the CLS's engine was a "downgrade" in many ways. The personality change was so much more severe in the case of the Talon...there was a significant difference. Plus the Talon FELT significantly faster when in the boos range (between 3K and 5.5K rpm).

I have not driven an RX8, but I do see what the Edmunds folks are trying to say. In the end it's all about preferences really. I am guessing that I would prefer the Z's engine because I love torque at low and mid rpm. Which means that, in my case, the ultimate would be a large engine, which also revs high and while it makes tons of torque at low and mid rpm, it also has a strong top end with a redline at 7K rpm for example.

In other words, an engine and a car, which I cannot afford.

SpeedyV6

What puzzles me is how Top Gear tested these two cars on the same track and got the exact same lap times - which equalled the times posted by an M3. If the track emphasized handling I can see how the RX-8 would hold its own but I can't fathom how either of these cars could lap as quickly as an M3. Also looking over their lap times I recall that the Evo 8 equalled the Murcielago.

gavriil

Guys, with these numbers, the RX8 is as quick as an auto CLS. It's not a slow car.


What the edmunds folks are saying is that the car FELT sportier than the Z. If that's the case, then it deserves to win.

gavriil

Wasnt the M3 doing laps on a wet track?

You will be surprised about how deceptively quick the Evo 8 is on a track that emphasizes more turning and stopping than all out acceleration on straights.

Six Shifter

it's unfortunate that a publication such as Edmunds would fail to use real world figures - especially in the mpg arena. Go to the RX-8 forum - the overwhelming majority of owners at that site claim they're lucky to get better than 16 mpg highway. Most people are lucky to get 200 miles out of a tankful of gas .... but then again that can also be said of some of the people in here also. Wonder if this has anything to do with the sheer number of RX-8's thar are now stacking up on dealers lots?

bigman

those edmunds guys are idiots. The 3 z even in japan is a better contendert. Looking at both cars from a tuners point of view, you can achieve so much more for so much less with the 3.5 than the rotary motor.

SpeedyV6

I thought that was the M3 CSL.

Python2121

i can def see what they are talking about with the rx-8 feeling sportier and more confident and refined in terms of handling.

then again, i haven't driven either

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

They'll come out with a turbo, and that rx8 will be fast as fuck. Oh and with the mazdaspeed body kit the car looks amazing. Id prob take the rx8 if i knew id body kit it and turbo it.

80's Boy

The last thing Mazda needs from an image standpoint is to offer another Rotary with a Turbo on it. The last RX-7 was a PR nightmare of Mazda. Not that it wasn't a great car to drive, it was just overly complex.

Mazda needs to get the new Renesis engine making the 247+ hp it initially claimed for it, along with some fuel economy above 15 mpg, and then toss the engine in the next Gen RX-7.

Oh and the only thing missing from that Comparision test was the S2000!!

SJ Silver Type-S

Where is the as-tested price? Im surprised that the fuel economy of the RX-8 is so poor, especially considering the performance you get for it. I do think its interior is much better however.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I didnt mean mazda make a turbo model i meant just to put on an aftermarket turbo. Im sure 1 will be made.