Mazda: Mazda6 News
#881
Ex-OEM King
A vast majority of BMW owners have no fucking clue what they drive, either. Don't kid yourself. I work with enough women here who drive X3s and 3-series sedans that care about how pretty their car is and what a luxury car it is. Beyond that, you can see tumbleweeds go by if you ask any questions about the mechanics or performance.
BMW is no longer the ultimate driving machine. That market is much too small. They've gone out into the mainstream market where people just like the Mazda crowd you are insinuating exists.
Unless of course, you have any sort of evidence? I'll wait for you to post it
BMW is no longer the ultimate driving machine. That market is much too small. They've gone out into the mainstream market where people just like the Mazda crowd you are insinuating exists.
Unless of course, you have any sort of evidence? I'll wait for you to post it
Sam, put down the crack pipe. The reason there is no 2.5T with a manual is because no one will buy it, except maybe 15 people. Back in 2005-2006, Honda released the Accord sedan with a 6MT... Honda couldn't sell them for the life of them. There was a fully optioned one at my local dealer that sat there for a year before it finally moved, at a discounted price.
Yeah, you can still get a BMW with a manual, but how many do they actually sell? I'm guessing less than 10%. Mazda is smaller than BMW. They can't offer the same shit as BMW. So they don't offer a package that most no one will buy. Even people who say they would buy, often times don't. It's just talk.
Yeah, you can still get a BMW with a manual, but how many do they actually sell? I'm guessing less than 10%. Mazda is smaller than BMW. They can't offer the same shit as BMW. So they don't offer a package that most no one will buy. Even people who say they would buy, often times don't. It's just talk.
I don't disagree with anything you said and never claimed otherwise. Enthusiasts are always able to go to the aftermarket for things like tires. It's just not worth the regulatory hurdles to add such frivolous things that few will actually opt for. Manual transmissions are a wee bit harder to add to a car...
And yeah, Mazda owners don't care about performance whatsoever... said none of the hundreds of thousands of Miata owners around the world. That car doesn't have a turbo either and sells in droves and is the most raced compact car in the world... but you're right... they probably don't care at all.
2017 MX5 Sales: 11,294
2017 Mazda6 Sales: 45,520
now for the lulz
2017 CX-5 Sales: 127,563
So...the Miata that "sells in droves" sold 20% the volume of a Mazda6 which it self sold 36% the volume of the crossover.
If you do the math, by percentage of overall US sales, the Miata (which sells in droves?) accounts for less than 4% of the units moved by Mazda in 2017...so that's basically right around what I said about the small percentage of the market that comprises enthusiasts.**
**This doesn't account for all the schmucks who buy an automatic Miata because they think "it looks cute", actual percentage of enthusiasts is likely to be even less.
#882
Team Owner
Not sure if you're being purposely obtuse... You're comparing a 2 seater sports car to a fully practical entry level CUV... Gee, I wonder which will sell more.
And yes, it sells in droves, as I believe they've sold over a million of them now, world wide. A two seater sports coupe. With less power than my lawn mower. And plenty of which get raced hard, day in, day out.
Not once did I ever say anything about how many cars they've sold. What I'm saying is you said the typical Mazda owner doesn't care what he buys. And I'm saying a million Miata sales seems to indicate otherwise. If you're saying a million Miata owners don't care about the car they drove, well, that's your (unsubstantiated) opinion. And just because someone buys an automatic doesn't mean they're not an enthusiast. I just bought 4k worth of parts from a 65 year old guy who sold his 370z because he could no longer drive it due to one of his knees. But I'm sure he's not an enthusiast either, right? He went out and bought an auto 370z instead. Still the same enthusiast. Still cares about cars. Just couldn't use the clutch anymore.
And it's not even just the Miata. A close friend of mine is rocking a CX5 these days and he was a Honda fan boy ever since he started driving. He is totally into cars, but decided Honda had nothing for him and he wanted to try something new. Voila. CX5. I can guarantee you he's not the only one.
Now tell me, how many M3s/M4s did BMW sell? How about 340s or 440s? Something tells me the number won't be any bigger than Miata numbers. And we all know there are plenty who buy a BMW for no other reason than it is a BMW- see i8 sales for example. That car completely sucks. Has 23 mile range on battery and otherwise a 1.3T, in a quarter million dollar car, featuring half the power of the NSX, and yet they sell them in droves (yes, droves- They sold 7200 of them in 4 years, where I don't think the NSX has even broke 1000 sales in 2.5 years) compared to the NSX. Interesting.
All I'm saying is your statement is more opinion than anything else, unless you've purposely gone and surveyed all BMW and Mazda owners. And you haven't. Sooo...
And yes, it sells in droves, as I believe they've sold over a million of them now, world wide. A two seater sports coupe. With less power than my lawn mower. And plenty of which get raced hard, day in, day out.
Not once did I ever say anything about how many cars they've sold. What I'm saying is you said the typical Mazda owner doesn't care what he buys. And I'm saying a million Miata sales seems to indicate otherwise. If you're saying a million Miata owners don't care about the car they drove, well, that's your (unsubstantiated) opinion. And just because someone buys an automatic doesn't mean they're not an enthusiast. I just bought 4k worth of parts from a 65 year old guy who sold his 370z because he could no longer drive it due to one of his knees. But I'm sure he's not an enthusiast either, right? He went out and bought an auto 370z instead. Still the same enthusiast. Still cares about cars. Just couldn't use the clutch anymore.
And it's not even just the Miata. A close friend of mine is rocking a CX5 these days and he was a Honda fan boy ever since he started driving. He is totally into cars, but decided Honda had nothing for him and he wanted to try something new. Voila. CX5. I can guarantee you he's not the only one.
Now tell me, how many M3s/M4s did BMW sell? How about 340s or 440s? Something tells me the number won't be any bigger than Miata numbers. And we all know there are plenty who buy a BMW for no other reason than it is a BMW- see i8 sales for example. That car completely sucks. Has 23 mile range on battery and otherwise a 1.3T, in a quarter million dollar car, featuring half the power of the NSX, and yet they sell them in droves (yes, droves- They sold 7200 of them in 4 years, where I don't think the NSX has even broke 1000 sales in 2.5 years) compared to the NSX. Interesting.
All I'm saying is your statement is more opinion than anything else, unless you've purposely gone and surveyed all BMW and Mazda owners. And you haven't. Sooo...
Last edited by TacoBello; 06-06-2018 at 05:33 PM.
#883
Team Owner
Honestly, you saying someone that drives a CX5 isn't an enthusiast and doesn't care about what they drive is about as accurate as me saying you're not an enthusiast because you bought a Jeep and 24 out of every 25 sold never even leave the pavement and are only used for grocery runs and picking kids up from daycare. Silly assertion, isn't it?
#884
You'll Never Walk Alone
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What? How would getting extra traction off the line not result in a faster trap speed at the end? If the mazda is spinning it's wheels down the first 50m of the track, it's undoubtedly going to be slower at the end.
Also, going from 1 gear to 5 is the same jump as going from 6 gears to 10 You're right, it likely won't make a 6mph difference... but don't discount the gears. Even look at the 2G MDX vs the 3G MDX... the 3G has less power (10hp less and 3lbft less) yet is faster in all categories than the 2G.
Look here at the MDX 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times...
https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/
Also, going from 1 gear to 5 is the same jump as going from 6 gears to 10 You're right, it likely won't make a 6mph difference... but don't discount the gears. Even look at the 2G MDX vs the 3G MDX... the 3G has less power (10hp less and 3lbft less) yet is faster in all categories than the 2G.
Look here at the MDX 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times...
https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/
http://www.pdq-v.com/files/trapspeed...TExplained.pdf
The summary is: "how well you do in the first 100 feet of the track is KEY to a good time. The last half of the track is KEY to a good speed."
If the Mazda 6 has trouble with traction in the first 50m, it would still have 350m to make it up. It will have a slower trap speed, but it won't be way slower. The ET would be way slower though.
As for 2G MDX vs 3G MDX, keep in mind the 3G MDX is about 300lb lighter trim vs trim. And the 6AT as far as I know is a new design that should be more efficient than the old 5AT.
#885
Ex-OEM King
Not sure if you're being purposely obtuse... You're comparing a 2 seater sports car to a fully practical entry level CUV... Gee, I wonder which will sell more.
And yes, it sells in droves, as I believe they've sold over a million of them now, world wide. A two seater sports coupe. With less power than my lawn mower. And plenty of which get raced hard, day in, day out.
Not once did I ever say anything about how many cars they've sold. What I'm saying is you said the typical Mazda owner doesn't care what he buys. And I'm saying a million Miata sales seems to indicate otherwise. If you're saying a million Miata owners don't care about the car they drove, well, that's your (unsubstantiated) opinion. And just because someone buys an automatic doesn't mean they're not an enthusiast. I just bought 4k worth of parts from a 65 year old guy who sold his 370z because he could no longer drive it due to one of his knees. But I'm sure he's not an enthusiast either, right? He went out and bought an auto 370z instead. Still the same enthusiast. Still cares about cars. Just couldn't use the clutch anymore.
And it's not even just the Miata. A close friend of mine is rocking a CX5 these days and he was a Honda fan boy ever since he started driving. He is totally into cars, but decided Honda had nothing for him and he wanted to try something new. Voila. CX5. I can guarantee you he's not the only one.
Now tell me, how many M3s/M4s did BMW sell? How about 340s or 440s? Something tells me the number won't be any bigger than Miata numbers. And we all know there are plenty who buy a BMW for no other reason than it is a BMW- see i8 sales for example. That car completely sucks. Has 23 mile range on battery and otherwise a 1.3T, in a quarter million dollar car, featuring half the power of the NSX, and yet they sell them in droves (yes, droves- They sold 7200 of them in 4 years, where I don't think the NSX has even broke 1000 sales in 2.5 years) compared to the NSX. Interesting.
All I'm saying is your statement is more opinion than anything else, unless you've purposely gone and surveyed all BMW and Mazda owners. And you haven't. Sooo...
And yes, it sells in droves, as I believe they've sold over a million of them now, world wide. A two seater sports coupe. With less power than my lawn mower. And plenty of which get raced hard, day in, day out.
Not once did I ever say anything about how many cars they've sold. What I'm saying is you said the typical Mazda owner doesn't care what he buys. And I'm saying a million Miata sales seems to indicate otherwise. If you're saying a million Miata owners don't care about the car they drove, well, that's your (unsubstantiated) opinion. And just because someone buys an automatic doesn't mean they're not an enthusiast. I just bought 4k worth of parts from a 65 year old guy who sold his 370z because he could no longer drive it due to one of his knees. But I'm sure he's not an enthusiast either, right? He went out and bought an auto 370z instead. Still the same enthusiast. Still cares about cars. Just couldn't use the clutch anymore.
And it's not even just the Miata. A close friend of mine is rocking a CX5 these days and he was a Honda fan boy ever since he started driving. He is totally into cars, but decided Honda had nothing for him and he wanted to try something new. Voila. CX5. I can guarantee you he's not the only one.
Now tell me, how many M3s/M4s did BMW sell? How about 340s or 440s? Something tells me the number won't be any bigger than Miata numbers. And we all know there are plenty who buy a BMW for no other reason than it is a BMW- see i8 sales for example. That car completely sucks. Has 23 mile range on battery and otherwise a 1.3T, in a quarter million dollar car, featuring half the power of the NSX, and yet they sell them in droves (yes, droves- They sold 7200 of them in 4 years, where I don't think the NSX has even broke 1000 sales in 2.5 years) compared to the NSX. Interesting.
All I'm saying is your statement is more opinion than anything else, unless you've purposely gone and surveyed all BMW and Mazda owners. And you haven't. Sooo...
It is a good car and it is a car for enthusiasts but it still doesn't sell well relatively. Yes they've sold a million of them in the past 30 YEARS. In comparison, Honda will sell as many CRV's in less than 4 years. Again, enthusiasts are a very very small sliver of the car buying public. There's no ifs ands or buts about it.
Your friend who couldn't use a clutch anymore still bought a sports car no? He didn't go buy an Altima or something like that right?
Your friend who is a "car guy" and bought the CX5...why? Why not a Mazda6 with manual? Why not an Accord 6MT? Why not a VW GTI/Golf R? Do you think, if summer tires were available, he would have opted for them? If yes, did he swap his tires for aftermarket summer tires yet? Guessing no. Not saying he isn't a car guy but an enthusiast BUYER is a different category entirely. This is why the sales of such cars are seriously low in relation to higher volume sellers.
Lastly, buying a mundane daily driver while having something more fun does not take away the enthusiast part of it. Also, being an enthusiast and only having something mundane just means you are not part of the "enthusiast buyer" category.
Honestly, you saying someone that drives a CX5 isn't an enthusiast and doesn't care about what they drive is about as accurate as me saying you're not an enthusiast because you bought a Jeep and 24 out of every 25 sold never even leave the pavement and are only used for grocery runs and picking kids up from daycare. Silly assertion, isn't it?
Last edited by SamDoe1; 06-07-2018 at 10:54 AM.
#886
Race Director
#887
Banned
New C&D test 08/2018; observed 21mpg, 5-60mph in a lazy 6.7s and they complains about how dull is the 4-cyl. turbo (nothing that we don't know). Funny that some people assumes that torque (310lbs-ft) is the end of it all. So Mazda created a 250HP car that performs overall worse a 180HP 320i, if we factor in the fuel economy.
#888
Punk Rocker
In every comparison I've seen the new Accord 2.0T absolutely smokes the Mazda 6 turbo-2.5 in all of the sporty driving categories. I've seen it especially noted just how much better the Accord puts its power down than the 6 does and that it feels much more sport-sedan in general. On the flip side most of the reviews have ranked the Mazda's styling (inside and out) as the best in the segment, the interior as being the most upscale looking and feeling, and the absence of turbo lag for the most part. I personally really love the 6 now that it has a competitive engine option along with a nice interior (something that used to be a dealbreaker for me with the Mazda). The great thing about the stupid cute-ute craze going on right now is that all the manufacturers are scrambling to make their bread-and-butter sedans as good as possible in both quality and value (well, except for Ford which just decided to give up). There really isn't a bad option in this segment with the Camry, Accord, Optima, Sonata, 6, Passat, Altima, etc.
#889
Moderator
^ I was pretty disappointed with the Fusion Sport. Despite having the same engine as my F150, it felt slower
Also wasn't a huge fan of the Miko gray interior, and my 3 yr old's knees were touching the back of the driver's seat.
It was heavily discounted though....
Also wasn't a huge fan of the Miko gray interior, and my 3 yr old's knees were touching the back of the driver's seat.
It was heavily discounted though....
#890
Punk Rocker
I actually still really love the Fusion Sport. I know its been around forever but I still think its a fresh exterior design and the interior would be better if it didn't have so much hard plastic (and a little more room). Its just such a shame that Ford has simply quit on the car market to focus on more useless SUV's and trucks. Wait til gas hits $4-5 a gallon again and Ford will be the next company in line for a government bailout.
#891
Moderator
I wanted to like the FFS, it just left me underwhelmed when I drove it. I'm sure a tune would change that perception pretty quickly though.
#892
Ex-OEM King
#893
Moderator
Nope, the one I was eyeing, and the cheapest Autobahn in Houston sold
Need to check dealer stock again & start competing quotes.
Need to check dealer stock again & start competing quotes.
#894
Team Owner
You snooze you lose
#895
Ex-OEM King
#896
Moderator
GFG, too. May try to see if I can get out there to look at it after work while it's still in the sun.
#897
Race Director
https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-mazda-...rep-1833617338
The Mazda 6 is a good car, even if many buyers ignore the existence of sedansthese days, and it’s long come with the option for a manual transmission—even if the stick is currently relegated to the car’s lowest trim.But citing dealer order guides,CarsDirect reports that the manual will be no more in 2019.
We have not seen the order guides, but we have reached out to Mazda for confirmation on the fate of the manual and the below reported prices.We’ll update this story if we hear back.
That earlier reference to “2019” might have been a little confusing, since we’re already three months into the year and carmakers love to debut their vehicle models two years in advance. But the 2019 Mazda 6 isn’t out yet—refreshing, given the tendency for unnaturally early debuts. What isn’t refreshing is what it may lack.
CarsDirect reports that Mazda will keep the option for either the standard 187-horsepowerengine or a turbocharged 227-HPone for the 2019 model, but that there won’t be a choice when it comes to number of pedals: Every Mazda 6 trim will get a six-speed automatic,the story said, citing order guides.
That’ll give the cheapest 2019 model a $24,720 base MSRP, CarsDirect reports, compared to the manual 2018 car’s $21,950 starting price. (Remember, the current base price of the 2018 automatic is $23,000 before $895 in destination fees.) The report also said the top Signature trim for 2019 will “reach $36,020.”
From the story:
It’s a sad outcome, if it happens, since the manual Mazda 6 is a great value for a new car—even when compared to its significantly more expensive turbocharged superiorsdown the lineup. But it’s also understandable monetarily, given that both sedans and manuals are a hard sell anymore.
That’s just how things are, no matter how hard they might be to accept. Less than 3 percent of new cars sold in the U.S. in 2016had manual transmissions, the LA Times reported that year, compared to 7 percent in 2012and 25 percent in 1992. Sedans are also suffering in the crossover craze.
Putting those two together, while a bonus for car enthusiasts who don’t want a new car to shift for them, is a likely recipe for an extended stay on the lot. When a friend at a local Texas dealer offered to transfer a manual 2018 Mazda 6 into their inventory from a more highly populated area so we could compare it to the top turbo trim last year for a review, even, we told them there was no pressure to do it because we figured the model would be hard to move.
So, welcome to 2019, where new Mazda 6 buyers may just have no choice but to pay more for fewer pedals. At least there’s always the used market, or the new Mazda 3.
Update: March 28, 2019 at 9:33 a.m. ET: A Mazda spokesperson confirmed to Jalopnik overnight that the 2019 car will lose the manual, but said the company continues to listen to customers. “If their desires should change in the future,” the spokesperson said, Mazda will “respond accordingly.”
“At Mazda we are always listening to our fans, especially when it comes to what they are looking for from our vehicles,” the spokesperson told Jalopnik via email. “As we have moved the Mazda6 upscale with the launch of the Grand Touring Reserve and Signature models, we have seen less demand for a manual transmission option.
“We continue to support enthusiasts who enjoy driving with a manual transmission in the all-new 2019 Mazda3 Premium Hatchback model, and of course the ever iconic MX-5 Miata.”
The full story is here.
We have not seen the order guides, but we have reached out to Mazda for confirmation on the fate of the manual and the below reported prices.We’ll update this story if we hear back.
CarsDirect reports that Mazda will keep the option for either the standard 187-horsepowerengine or a turbocharged 227-HPone for the 2019 model, but that there won’t be a choice when it comes to number of pedals: Every Mazda 6 trim will get a six-speed automatic,the story said, citing order guides.
That’ll give the cheapest 2019 model a $24,720 base MSRP, CarsDirect reports, compared to the manual 2018 car’s $21,950 starting price. (Remember, the current base price of the 2018 automatic is $23,000 before $895 in destination fees.) The report also said the top Signature trim for 2019 will “reach $36,020.”
From the story:
Fortunately, our analysis finds the car will gain more standard equipment that helps justify its higher MSRP.
The most noteworthy change is that the entry-level Sport will now come with i-Activsense, which adds Smart Brake Support (auto emergency braking), lane-departure warning with lane-keeping assist, automatic headlights, and adaptive cruise control with stop & go.
You’ll also get automatic headlights, rain-sensing wipers and a seat belt warning for front and rear passengers. All Mazda6 trims will also get G-Vectoring Control Plus, the latest version of the automaker’s enhanced handling system that you can also find in the new Mazda3.
The most noteworthy change is that the entry-level Sport will now come with i-Activsense, which adds Smart Brake Support (auto emergency braking), lane-departure warning with lane-keeping assist, automatic headlights, and adaptive cruise control with stop & go.
You’ll also get automatic headlights, rain-sensing wipers and a seat belt warning for front and rear passengers. All Mazda6 trims will also get G-Vectoring Control Plus, the latest version of the automaker’s enhanced handling system that you can also find in the new Mazda3.
That’s just how things are, no matter how hard they might be to accept. Less than 3 percent of new cars sold in the U.S. in 2016had manual transmissions, the LA Times reported that year, compared to 7 percent in 2012and 25 percent in 1992. Sedans are also suffering in the crossover craze.
Putting those two together, while a bonus for car enthusiasts who don’t want a new car to shift for them, is a likely recipe for an extended stay on the lot. When a friend at a local Texas dealer offered to transfer a manual 2018 Mazda 6 into their inventory from a more highly populated area so we could compare it to the top turbo trim last year for a review, even, we told them there was no pressure to do it because we figured the model would be hard to move.
So, welcome to 2019, where new Mazda 6 buyers may just have no choice but to pay more for fewer pedals. At least there’s always the used market, or the new Mazda 3.
Update: March 28, 2019 at 9:33 a.m. ET: A Mazda spokesperson confirmed to Jalopnik overnight that the 2019 car will lose the manual, but said the company continues to listen to customers. “If their desires should change in the future,” the spokesperson said, Mazda will “respond accordingly.”
“At Mazda we are always listening to our fans, especially when it comes to what they are looking for from our vehicles,” the spokesperson told Jalopnik via email. “As we have moved the Mazda6 upscale with the launch of the Grand Touring Reserve and Signature models, we have seen less demand for a manual transmission option.
“We continue to support enthusiasts who enjoy driving with a manual transmission in the all-new 2019 Mazda3 Premium Hatchback model, and of course the ever iconic MX-5 Miata.”
The full story is here.
#898
Ex-OEM King
When will automakers figure out that the reason their manual option sells like crap is because they only offer it on the low end trim. The majority of the people buying the low end stripped down models just want basic transport and an auto suits that use case. Most of the enthusiasts want a loaded model with all the options and a manual as they are looking for a fun car to drive that has the features they want. Sell the manual in the top trim only and watch the sales go up.
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#899
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Yup that’s the exact reason why the Mazda 6 was off my list of cars to consider when I replace my current car.
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When will automakers figure out that the reason their manual option sells like crap is because they only offer it on the low end trim. The majority of the people buying the low end stripped down models just want basic transport and an auto suits that use case. Most of the enthusiasts want a loaded model with all the options and a manual as they are looking for a fun car to drive that has the features they want. Sell the manual in the top trim only and watch the sales go up.
How about an AWD Genesis G70 V6 turbo with a 6MT? I'm thinking that would sell quite well.
#901
Moderator
I really liked the turbo 6 & seriously gave consideration to the GT-R, but it definitely doesn't drive like it has as much power/torque as advertised. Very comfortable & drives well, but not a sport sedan.
Toss on a 6MT to the turbo 6 & it could be a winner, but I don't see lines forming to buy them if it did happen.
Toss on a 6MT to the turbo 6 & it could be a winner, but I don't see lines forming to buy them if it did happen.
#902
Team Owner
When will automakers figure out that the reason their manual option sells like crap is because they only offer it on the low end trim. The majority of the people buying the low end stripped down models just want basic transport and an auto suits that use case. Most of the enthusiasts want a loaded model with all the options and a manual as they are looking for a fun car to drive that has the features they want. Sell the manual in the top trim only and watch the sales go up.
The take rate was quite low still = new 2,3,4 series will have no manual.
But 50% of M2 sold were manual
So i believe it has more to do with the type of car, which attract certain type of buyers to prefer manual.
Mazda 6 Turbo Manual, as good as it might be, there is just not enough market for it.. It is still in the same segment with Accord and Camry...
#903
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This might have some truth to it. But on the flip side, BMW offered 6mt option on 2 series, 3 series and 4 series including M3/4 regardless of Trim...
The take rate was quite low still = new 2,3,4 series will have no manual.
But 50% of M2 sold were manual
So i believe it has more to do with the type of car, which attract certain type of buyers to prefer manual.
Mazda 6 Turbo Manual, as good as it might be, there is just not enough market for it.. It is still in the same segment with Accord and Camry...
The take rate was quite low still = new 2,3,4 series will have no manual.
But 50% of M2 sold were manual
So i believe it has more to do with the type of car, which attract certain type of buyers to prefer manual.
Mazda 6 Turbo Manual, as good as it might be, there is just not enough market for it.. It is still in the same segment with Accord and Camry...
I would actually consider one of the new Accord 6MT 2.0T models, I-F-F-F, it was available in the full zoot version with the 6MT. Unfortunately Honda has deemed only the strippo Sport model can be had with the 6MT.
#904
Team Owner
Yes... but you are only 1 person... They sell about 20-30k Accord every month, you will need a lot more "you" to convince Honda to do that.
But be glad you can at least get the 6mt in Sport... sooner or later there will be no MT in any Accord.
But be glad you can at least get the 6mt in Sport... sooner or later there will be no MT in any Accord.
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My argument is, since they already have a 6MT Accord, milk it for all it's worth, throw as much bling in those 6MTs as you can; it ain't as if the parts haven't already been designed and built, and aren't already sitting in parts bins.
#906
Team Owner
You are right, it wont cost Honda much to offer 6mt in other trims since they already offer the 6mt in Sport Trim with either 1.5T or 2.0T. They could if they wanted to, but why would they want to? That is the question.
If i were Honda, i would rather spend the time and energy focusing on CUV/SUV than implementing 6mt in Accord's other trims.
Even if they did offer 6mt in all of their trims, do you think it will have any significant change in their 20-30k sales number simply by offering 6mt in the Touring Trim? I personally dont think so.
There might be a slight increase in the manual sales, even tho i really dont see it... but it is the overall sales # that Honda really cares about. or any manuf. in that regard.
If i were Honda, i would rather spend the time and energy focusing on CUV/SUV than implementing 6mt in Accord's other trims.
Even if they did offer 6mt in all of their trims, do you think it will have any significant change in their 20-30k sales number simply by offering 6mt in the Touring Trim? I personally dont think so.
There might be a slight increase in the manual sales, even tho i really dont see it... but it is the overall sales # that Honda really cares about. or any manuf. in that regard.
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You are right, it wont cost Honda much to offer 6mt in other trims since they already offer the 6mt in Sport Trim with either 1.5T or 2.0T. They could if they wanted to, but why would they want to? That is the question.
If i were Honda, i would rather spend the time and energy focusing on CUV/SUV than implementing 6mt in Accord's other trims.
Even if they did offer 6mt in all of their trims, do you think it will have any significant change in their 20-30k sales number simply by offering 6mt in the Touring Trim? I personally dont think so.
There might be a slight increase in the manual sales, even tho i really dont see it... but it is the overall sales # that Honda really cares about. or any manuf. in that regard.
If i were Honda, i would rather spend the time and energy focusing on CUV/SUV than implementing 6mt in Accord's other trims.
Even if they did offer 6mt in all of their trims, do you think it will have any significant change in their 20-30k sales number simply by offering 6mt in the Touring Trim? I personally dont think so.
There might be a slight increase in the manual sales, even tho i really dont see it... but it is the overall sales # that Honda really cares about. or any manuf. in that regard.
My only thought is maybe they have plans to introduce a TLX 6MT, but I'm thinking the likelihood of that ever happening is pretty freakin' low.
#908
Team Owner
Yah TLX is struggling as it is. adding 6mt will do absolutely nothing to help the overall business. Personally, it is good news to have 6mt in any car.. but looking at the bigger pictures, it is just not going to happen.
I think Honda probably realized that by now. I will be very surprised if the next Gen Accord still offer 6mt...
Going back to the Mazda 6, we all know the M6 has always been a great car in that segment but it could never really compete in term of sales # with Accord or Camry. Adding a 6mt will not help much... from Business perspective, it just does not make sense, especially when the market is shifting to CUV/SUV.
Honda would never have bothered with a 6MT in the first place if it was not worth doing
Going back to the Mazda 6, we all know the M6 has always been a great car in that segment but it could never really compete in term of sales # with Accord or Camry. Adding a 6mt will not help much... from Business perspective, it just does not make sense, especially when the market is shifting to CUV/SUV.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 03-29-2019 at 05:40 PM.
#909
It's not just sales re: TLX. Whenever a manufacturer offers another transmission on a model, that particular model needs to go through additional certification for crash test safety, emissions, etc. Not exactly cheap.
I'm sure they would reengineer things on the powertrain, too. Doubtful that they would just slap in the same exact Accord 6MT transmission with the same gearing from the TLX and call it a day.
I'm sure they would reengineer things on the powertrain, too. Doubtful that they would just slap in the same exact Accord 6MT transmission with the same gearing from the TLX and call it a day.
#910
Race Director
After a seemingly interminable wait, the diesel version of Mazda's CX-5 crossover is finally here—and it will soon be joined by a diesel version of the Mazda 6 sedan. While the new diesel mid-sizer wasn't mentioned in Mazda's press materials, there's a page on the company's consumer website that confirms the Mazda 6 Skyactiv-D and shows images of the car. Mazda representatives also confirmed that the 6 is getting an all-wheel-drive option in the near future.
We can safely assume that the 6 diesel will use the exact same powertrain as the CX-5 diesel, a 2.2-liter turbo-diesel inline-four that makes 168 horsepower and 290 lb-ft of torque through a six-speed automatic transmission. Given the 6's lower silhouette and smaller frontal area, it's possible it will get better fuel economy than the CX-5, which is rated by the EPA at a somewhat disappointing 28 mpg combined. For the 6 diesel to beat its gasoline counterpart, it will need to at least offer better than 29 mpg combined. Expect the 6 to only offer its diesel engine in its top Signature trim level, likely with a similar $4110 price premium as the CX-5's diesel engine.
There's less clarity on the 6's new all-wheel-drive option, a rumor that has circulated for years. At this point, we're guessing that it will be offered with both the diesel engine and with the optional turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-four gas engine that's currently offered on the Grand Touring Reserve and Signature trim levels.
We also don't know for sure when these new diesel and AWD versions of the Mazda 6 will be available to buy, but we suspect that they will come for the 2020 model year, likely sometime before the end of 2019.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...awd-confirmed/
We can safely assume that the 6 diesel will use the exact same powertrain as the CX-5 diesel, a 2.2-liter turbo-diesel inline-four that makes 168 horsepower and 290 lb-ft of torque through a six-speed automatic transmission. Given the 6's lower silhouette and smaller frontal area, it's possible it will get better fuel economy than the CX-5, which is rated by the EPA at a somewhat disappointing 28 mpg combined. For the 6 diesel to beat its gasoline counterpart, it will need to at least offer better than 29 mpg combined. Expect the 6 to only offer its diesel engine in its top Signature trim level, likely with a similar $4110 price premium as the CX-5's diesel engine.
There's less clarity on the 6's new all-wheel-drive option, a rumor that has circulated for years. At this point, we're guessing that it will be offered with both the diesel engine and with the optional turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-four gas engine that's currently offered on the Grand Touring Reserve and Signature trim levels.
We also don't know for sure when these new diesel and AWD versions of the Mazda 6 will be available to buy, but we suspect that they will come for the 2020 model year, likely sometime before the end of 2019.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...awd-confirmed/
#911
Race Director
^not sure why they would bother with the Skyactiv-X coming. The math (in terms of gas mileage savings vs. cost) doesn't work in the CX-5 and doubt it will work in the 6 either - especially with the current diesel premium over regular gas at the pump.
#912
Moderator
Odds are that it'll only be available on the Signature trim, like the CX-5. So it'll be a quite pricey 6.
#913
Race Director
Tokyo, July 4 (Jiji Press)--Mazda Motor Corp. said Thursday it will launch in Japan a partially remodeled version of the Atenza, one of its flagship models, under the name used in overseas markets, "Mazda 6."
The renamed model, whose lineup will include a version equipped with a turbocharged 2.5-liter gasoline engine, will be put on sale on Aug. 1, the Japanese automaker said.
The new Mazda 6 will come in two types--sedan and wagon.
Customers can choose diesel or gasoline engines with displacement of 2,000-2,500cc.
The prices for the models will range from 2.84 million yen to 4.23 million yen. The model's main target will be people in their 40s or older.
https://www.nippon.com/en/news/yjj20...d-mazda-6.html
The renamed model, whose lineup will include a version equipped with a turbocharged 2.5-liter gasoline engine, will be put on sale on Aug. 1, the Japanese automaker said.
The new Mazda 6 will come in two types--sedan and wagon.
Customers can choose diesel or gasoline engines with displacement of 2,000-2,500cc.
The prices for the models will range from 2.84 million yen to 4.23 million yen. The model's main target will be people in their 40s or older.
https://www.nippon.com/en/news/yjj20...d-mazda-6.html
#914
Moderator
I think the names sound better than the numbers. Atenza, Axela, Demio, etc.
#915
Race Director
The future generation of several Toyota and Lexus cars will allegedly source their rear-drive platform and inline-six engine from Mazda, according to a rumor citing unnamed insiders from Best Car in Japan. The first of these models could arrive as soon as 2022.
#916
Race Director
#917
Moderator
IIRC, the MX-5 was always that was, except here, where it was the Miata.
Also curious what the future SUVs will be, with the CX-30 coming. Wonder if it'll go to CX-50, CX-90, etc; or if it's a one-off, since they couldn't use CX-4, due to that model already existing in other markets.
Also curious what the future SUVs will be, with the CX-30 coming. Wonder if it'll go to CX-50, CX-90, etc; or if it's a one-off, since they couldn't use CX-4, due to that model already existing in other markets.
#918
Race Director
Mazda's recent upmarket ambitions had us worried. The mid-luxury market stopped being friendly about 40 years ago. (How's Oldsmobile doing these days?) But just when we thought Mazda had truly lost the plot, the company looks ready to redeem itself. Most automakers competing in the middle ground dress up mainstream mechanical bits in browner leather and offer sheetmetal shaped by a more pretentious designer.
Bucking that trend, Mazda plans to adopt the blueprint of a full luxury model and hang a lower price on it. The next-generation 6, which should be on sale by the end of 2022, is set to get a full Bavarian, transitioning to a longitudinal-engine platform with rear-wheel drive and an inline-six.
That engine won't just be a new layout for Mazda. It will incorporate the company's Skyactiv-X sort-of-compression-ignition gasoline technology as well as a 48-volt hybrid system. We've seen numbers approaching 350 horsepower thrown around. If that sounds like an unrealistic R&D load for a company Mazda's size, well, yeah, it is. However, Mazda has lately been deepening its ties with Toyota, which may adopt the six-cylinder Skyactiv-X for the next-generation Lexus IS and RC. With Toyota's budget, Mazda engineers could probably welcome Elon Musk to Mars with a locally sourced shrimp buffet.
You already have a pretty good idea of what this car will look like. Reflect on Mazda's Vision Coupe concept, which debuted at the 2017 Tokyo auto show. That long-hood, short-deck showpiece was clearly projecting rear-drive intent, cloaked in an evolution of Mazda's seductive styling language with softened lines and subtler forms.
There's even a chance that Mazda will mimic Lexus and put the inline-six into both four- and two-door bodies. Rewind two years prior to the Vision Coupe and you get the RX-Vision, a Mazda sports-car concept with a hood way longer than necessary for the Wankel rotary the company was imagining at the time. Few things cement an upmarket image better than a rear-drive sports coupe. But a rear-drive sports sedan is a fine start, too.
Bucking that trend, Mazda plans to adopt the blueprint of a full luxury model and hang a lower price on it. The next-generation 6, which should be on sale by the end of 2022, is set to get a full Bavarian, transitioning to a longitudinal-engine platform with rear-wheel drive and an inline-six.
That engine won't just be a new layout for Mazda. It will incorporate the company's Skyactiv-X sort-of-compression-ignition gasoline technology as well as a 48-volt hybrid system. We've seen numbers approaching 350 horsepower thrown around. If that sounds like an unrealistic R&D load for a company Mazda's size, well, yeah, it is. However, Mazda has lately been deepening its ties with Toyota, which may adopt the six-cylinder Skyactiv-X for the next-generation Lexus IS and RC. With Toyota's budget, Mazda engineers could probably welcome Elon Musk to Mars with a locally sourced shrimp buffet.
You already have a pretty good idea of what this car will look like. Reflect on Mazda's Vision Coupe concept, which debuted at the 2017 Tokyo auto show. That long-hood, short-deck showpiece was clearly projecting rear-drive intent, cloaked in an evolution of Mazda's seductive styling language with softened lines and subtler forms.
There's even a chance that Mazda will mimic Lexus and put the inline-six into both four- and two-door bodies. Rewind two years prior to the Vision Coupe and you get the RX-Vision, a Mazda sports-car concept with a hood way longer than necessary for the Wankel rotary the company was imagining at the time. Few things cement an upmarket image better than a rear-drive sports coupe. But a rear-drive sports sedan is a fine start, too.
#919
Race Director
I'm anticipating being in the market for a new DD in 2023. If the reporting above turns out to be true , I'd give a Mz6 a serious look ...
#920
Moderator