Lexus: LS News
09-01-2006, 02:27 PM
#362
I'm the Firestarter
Anytime you read a Lexus review, any model, you're bound to hear the journalist talk about how the car is great but isn't "involving" or "emotional" or "visceral" or whatever.
I wonder how much of this is just the majority of journalists jumping on the Car&Driver bandwagon. Where a few influential enthousiast jouralists proclaim that a Lexus is slightly less fun to drive than a Bimmer, and then all the rest of the sheep follow along even though they could not tell the difference themselves. Obviously the customers can't tell the difference in driving fun or don't find the difference sufficient to warrant not buying Lexus.
I wonder how much of this is just the majority of journalists jumping on the Car&Driver bandwagon. Where a few influential enthousiast jouralists proclaim that a Lexus is slightly less fun to drive than a Bimmer, and then all the rest of the sheep follow along even though they could not tell the difference themselves. Obviously the customers can't tell the difference in driving fun or don't find the difference sufficient to warrant not buying Lexus.
09-01-2006, 06:06 PM
#364
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by gilboman
but as the world has realized for past 7 or so years...Lexus is no MB when it comes to quality and reliabilty, they actually put out quality and reliability 
09-01-2006, 06:18 PM
#365
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Originally Posted by gilboman
but as the world has realized for past 7 or so years...Lexus is no MB when it comes to quality and reliabilty, they actually put out quality and reliability
09-01-2006, 06:19 PM
#366
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Originally Posted by cob3683
I would say that MB has more quality in its cars than Lexus, but definitely falls behind in the reliability area.
09-02-2006, 09:03 AM
#367
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
Anytime you read a Lexus review, any model, you're bound to hear the journalist talk about how the car is great but isn't "involving" or "emotional" or "visceral" or whatever.
I wonder how much of this is just the majority of journalists jumping on the Car&Driver bandwagon. Where a few influential enthousiast jouralists proclaim that a Lexus is slightly less fun to drive than a Bimmer, and then all the rest of the sheep follow along even though they could not tell the difference themselves. Obviously the customers can't tell the difference in driving fun or don't find the difference sufficient to warrant not buying Lexus.
I wonder how much of this is just the majority of journalists jumping on the Car&Driver bandwagon. Where a few influential enthousiast jouralists proclaim that a Lexus is slightly less fun to drive than a Bimmer, and then all the rest of the sheep follow along even though they could not tell the difference themselves. Obviously the customers can't tell the difference in driving fun or don't find the difference sufficient to warrant not buying Lexus.
Having driven a 2G LS - supremely comfortable, but certain concepts like "steering feel" and "sharp response" weren't in Lexus' vocabulary when they designed that car. Again, this was done intentionally, and thus it suits plenty of those type of buyers, just not me. If I was looking for a large luxo sedan with sporting dynamics..... The BMW 745i, Audi A8, and the Jag XJR would garner my attention.
The only Lex I've driven in recent memory that behaved "sporty" was an older 1G SC400. Now that was a great car.....
I'm hoping that the IS350 also lives up to its promise of being sporting (haven't driven it yet).
09-03-2006, 11:31 AM
#369
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Well it's quite true though. Lexus cars in general are uninspiring and do not have the driving dynamics of a sports sedan. Though Lexus does market the IS and GS pretty well as "sports" sedans especially the GS because the car has nothing that indicates it from being a sports sedan.
So it's not entirely hard to believe that the cars are not as involving.
A sofa couch cannot be a driving machine if it's dead quiet and isolated.
A driving machine cannot be a smooth quiet cruiser if you can feel bumps through the steering wheel, noises through the floor, etc.
The cars were made for different people and unfortunately, the LS460 will never be me aimed towards driving experience like the BMW 7-series.
So it's not entirely hard to believe that the cars are not as involving.
A sofa couch cannot be a driving machine if it's dead quiet and isolated.
A driving machine cannot be a smooth quiet cruiser if you can feel bumps through the steering wheel, noises through the floor, etc.
The cars were made for different people and unfortunately, the LS460 will never be me aimed towards driving experience like the BMW 7-series.
09-03-2006, 11:34 AM
#370
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Originally Posted by EuRTSX
I think it looks great.
Dunno why, kinda looks like the new Camry though.
Dunno why, kinda looks like the new Camry though.
09-05-2006, 09:08 PM
#371
Q&A with chief engineer Satoru Maruyamano
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60905003/1041
Notice how he totally avoided the Bangle butt question 
But anyways, it shows just how ambitious Lexus was in trying to make the LS a leader. I think they've succeeded for the most part.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60905003/1041
By MARK RECHTIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS EUROPE
Satoru Maruyamano has spent 17 of his 28 years with Toyota Motor developing transmissions. So it made sense that he would be the chief engineer for the 2007 Lexus LS460, which has the world’s first eight-speed automatic transmission. Maruyamano spoke with Automotive News Europe Reporter Mark Rechtin at the car’s press introduction in Salzburg, Austria.
How did you decide it was necessary to have an eight-speed transmission?
We decided right from the start. When we launched the LS430, BMW already had a six-speed, which beat us in the “world first” category. At that time we started studying eight speeds. We met with Aisin at a World Cup game (in Japan) about four years ago about the transmission’s development. The Mercedes S class has seven speeds, but sixth and seventh are so close that we think it’s just a six-speed.
OK, so you’re first. But why do it?
For power, performance and fuel economy. First-gear ratio is very low, and top gear is much higher than that of a six-speed. So in top gear we get low engine rpms and good control logic for improved fuel economy. But we also developed the 4.6-liter engine with big torque, as passing power is very important. We use the 4-5-6-7 gears as the sweet spot of the transmission.
Early in development, we were worried it would be too busy-feeling, too frequent-shifting. So we have several control logics. The computer recognizes a freeway or a winding road for the suitable gear ratio. The previous six-speed also had some transmission noise. So in designing the eight-speed, we needed to look at the various shaft sizes and dimensions at their most basic level of engineering.
Did you begin developing the base model first?
We started the base model first. But r&d on both was almost done together. We had been planning a long-wheelbase version all along, where it would be more luxurious. For example, the tires on the long-wheelbase model would be more plush. The base model had just coil springs, but the long-wheelbase version has coil springs and an air suspension. And within that air suspension, we have a European-tuned suspension and a choice of 18-inch or 19-inch wheels.
It appears you are copying BMW’s “Bangle butt” trunk-lid design ...
The current LS was a boxy four-door. This time we wanted a change. We wanted a lower, more stable feeling. Not that we ignored packaging, but we wanted to pay attention to design. We had to keep interior packaging, and we also had to consider our passive safety crush zones. So we increased the wheelbase and used bigger tires. But if you put big tires on the current LS, the turning radius is too big. So we had to deal with that in the design by increasing the width of the car, which also looks like a stable design.
Why only have a V-8 and a hybrid?
It would have been easy to do a V-12 for Lexus. But it’s very expensive, when you look at the prices BMW, Mercedes and Audi charge. Besides, if we developed a V-12 for the LS, we would be following others, not leading. So we stayed with a hybrid focus instead. The hybrid focus is on fuel economy, but with a hybrid you get all-wheel drive. The competition’s V-12s have great straight-ahead speed.
But at some point a turn comes, and you have to brake. Our hybrid will beat their V-12 power.
Satoru Maruyamano has spent 17 of his 28 years with Toyota Motor developing transmissions. So it made sense that he would be the chief engineer for the 2007 Lexus LS460, which has the world’s first eight-speed automatic transmission. Maruyamano spoke with Automotive News Europe Reporter Mark Rechtin at the car’s press introduction in Salzburg, Austria.
How did you decide it was necessary to have an eight-speed transmission?
We decided right from the start. When we launched the LS430, BMW already had a six-speed, which beat us in the “world first” category. At that time we started studying eight speeds. We met with Aisin at a World Cup game (in Japan) about four years ago about the transmission’s development. The Mercedes S class has seven speeds, but sixth and seventh are so close that we think it’s just a six-speed.
OK, so you’re first. But why do it?
For power, performance and fuel economy. First-gear ratio is very low, and top gear is much higher than that of a six-speed. So in top gear we get low engine rpms and good control logic for improved fuel economy. But we also developed the 4.6-liter engine with big torque, as passing power is very important. We use the 4-5-6-7 gears as the sweet spot of the transmission.
Early in development, we were worried it would be too busy-feeling, too frequent-shifting. So we have several control logics. The computer recognizes a freeway or a winding road for the suitable gear ratio. The previous six-speed also had some transmission noise. So in designing the eight-speed, we needed to look at the various shaft sizes and dimensions at their most basic level of engineering.
Did you begin developing the base model first?
We started the base model first. But r&d on both was almost done together. We had been planning a long-wheelbase version all along, where it would be more luxurious. For example, the tires on the long-wheelbase model would be more plush. The base model had just coil springs, but the long-wheelbase version has coil springs and an air suspension. And within that air suspension, we have a European-tuned suspension and a choice of 18-inch or 19-inch wheels.
It appears you are copying BMW’s “Bangle butt” trunk-lid design ...
The current LS was a boxy four-door. This time we wanted a change. We wanted a lower, more stable feeling. Not that we ignored packaging, but we wanted to pay attention to design. We had to keep interior packaging, and we also had to consider our passive safety crush zones. So we increased the wheelbase and used bigger tires. But if you put big tires on the current LS, the turning radius is too big. So we had to deal with that in the design by increasing the width of the car, which also looks like a stable design.
Why only have a V-8 and a hybrid?
It would have been easy to do a V-12 for Lexus. But it’s very expensive, when you look at the prices BMW, Mercedes and Audi charge. Besides, if we developed a V-12 for the LS, we would be following others, not leading. So we stayed with a hybrid focus instead. The hybrid focus is on fuel economy, but with a hybrid you get all-wheel drive. The competition’s V-12s have great straight-ahead speed.
But at some point a turn comes, and you have to brake. Our hybrid will beat their V-12 power.
But anyways, it shows just how ambitious Lexus was in trying to make the LS a leader. I think they've succeeded for the most part.
09-06-2006, 07:14 PM
#373
Originally Posted by biker
So why is it that an Aisin MT in the CTS2.8 feels real good but a similar tranny in the IS250 feels crappy?
09-06-2006, 07:23 PM
#374
I feel the need...
Consider that in a survey of brands mentioned by hip-hop artists in the 2005 Billboard Top 20 (a rough but handy measure of a brand's aspirational power), Lexus didn't even crack the top 50.
The first thing I do when considering the purchase of a fine ass automobile, ring up my homeboy Jay-Z and ax him what he thinks...
09-24-2006, 08:49 AM
#375
John Starks - The Dunk
Lexus 460L Self Parking video - Toyota to Detroit: We Will Bury You (page 1)
09-24-2006, 09:01 AM
#377
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thankfully I have no need for this whatsoever as parallel parking is not difficult to do. I've seen more than enough people who would benefit greatly from this feature though.
09-24-2006, 09:09 AM
#378
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Scrib
Does it wipe your ass too???
09-24-2006, 09:33 AM
#379
Moderator Alumnus
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I prefer to watch people comically bump and bang their way into spots. I once saw this israeli lady no more than 5 ft tall unable to put her ferarri into a spot big enough for a yukon.
09-24-2006, 12:16 PM
#382
NiGhT rIdEr
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Originally Posted by TL CHROMETIDE
I'd show it off but there is no need for it. 
09-24-2006, 01:59 PM
#385
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Wow.........That's cool, but what happens if the car screws up and runs into something (a person, building or another car). How do u explain urself. Eh..........it wasn't me, it was the car.
09-24-2006, 02:02 PM
#386
Go Giants
<---Sucks at parallel parking...
09-24-2006, 06:49 PM
#390
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Originally Posted by deye
Wow.........That's cool, but what happens if the car screws up and runs into something (a person, building or another car). How do u explain urself. Eh..........it wasn't me, it was the car.
You still have control over the brake.
09-24-2006, 09:32 PM
#391
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Originally Posted by mg7726
i've seen people in Minicoopers with parking distance control
09-25-2006, 01:38 AM
#393
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My god... are people THAT lazy and incompetent?
09-25-2006, 10:35 AM
#395
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan
thankfully I have no need for this whatsoever as parallel parking is not difficult to do. I've seen more than enough people who would benefit greatly from this feature though.
^^^ That was pretty much what my colleague stated after seeing this video.
09-25-2006, 02:03 PM
#396
checkmate...
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Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
It's no wonder why 
can't drive in so cal, they buy cars that do everything for them.
can't drive in so cal, they buy cars that do everything for them. by .
09-25-2006, 06:24 PM
#398
Suzuka Master
Toyota to Detroit: We Will Bury You
Toyota to Detroit: We Will Bury You
September 25, 2006
EYES ON THE ROAD
By JOSEPH B. WHITE
Toyota to Detroit: We Will Bury You
Lexus Flagship Bristles With New Features
That Up the Ante as Detroit Rivals Wobble
September 25, 2006
Toyota Motor Corp. has a message for its struggling rivals in Detroit: We will bury you.
Of course, Toyota's leaders are far too diplomatic and cautious to say something as outrageous as that out loud.
Instead, Toyota delivers its message in more subtle ways. Such as bringing the new Lexus LS 460 to a hotel within sight of Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn, Mich., headquarters and innocently demonstrating the fact that the new top-of-the-line Lexus has a feature that allows the car to park itself, with the driver playing a minor supporting role.
This is one of those see-it-to-believe-it features (See video3). But the LS 460 can use an array of sonar distance-finding devices linked to the navigation system that can slide the car into a parallel-parking slot without the driver touching the steering wheel.
While you are admiring that trick, you can ponder that the LS 460's lustrous paint job is the result of a new painting process that involves robots specifically developed for the LS production line that can buff the car's curvy body along six different axes, instead of just up and down. And when the robots are done, Lexus has workers who go over the finish by hand.
The LS 460 has an eight-speed automatic transmission -- an industry first -- a state-of-the-art aluminum V-8 engine that cranks out 380 horsepower and is expected to get 19 miles to the gallon in the city and 27 miles to the gallon on the highway. (The Cadillac STS's Northstar V-8 by comparison is rated at 320 horsepower, 17 city and 26 mpg highway.) The long wheelbase, limo version of the new LS has an optional climate-control system that uses infrared sensors to detect whether occupants are overheating. The car has systems that sense a crash coming and prepare the brakes and airbags for impact -- a system similar in intent to one available on top end Mercedes cars.
The car's headlights were redesigned after the chief engineer decided the original prototypes didn't look enough like crystal. So he had a new prototype headlight made out of crystal, and had the supplier copy the look. The list goes on, and on and on.
Lexus's motto is "the relentless pursuit of perfection." It could just as well be simply, "Lexus. Relentless."
[Lexus LS 460]
In addition to many new features, the LS 460 has a more aggressive design4.
Lexus has problems. Sure. Lexus still isn't a major player in the market for cars priced above $70,000 -- a rarified segment that has doubled in size during the past five years, according to Lexus general manager Bob Carter. Should Lexus look at building another sedan to compete against the likes of Bentley? Or a super sports car to rival Ferrari or Porsche? Lexus is looking at both options, Mr. Carter says.
The Lexus LS 460 represents, in one elegant package, most of the reasons why Toyota is widely expected to become the world's No. 1 auto maker sometime within the next two years. It is a technological tour de force by a company that, relative to its strapped U.S. competition, has bottomless resources. Tricks like automatic parking technology are a lot easier to do if your company is making billions, and has a top-shelf credit rating. For GM and Ford, Detroit's junk-rated giants, everything comes harder.
Toyota chose last week to mention that it expects5 profits in the six month period that ends Sept. 30 will be 500 billion yen (or about $4.29 billion). Toyota's confident outlook, and its declaration that it intends to expand global vehicle sales to 9.8 million by 2008, an 11% increase from this year, stood in sharp contrast to the torrent of bad news hitting Detroit over the past several days. On a single day, Sept. 15, Ford outlined plans6 to hack 44,000 people off the payroll and Chrysler disclosed a likely $1.5 billion third quarter loss.
As for those quality problems that have been embarrassing Toyota over the past year or so, Toyota said it will attack them by hiring 8,000 engineers. This is more bad news for Detroit, since some of those 8,000 will likely be Ford, Chrysler or GM engineers who decide that, all things considered, working for Toyota is a better idea. The Toyota hiring binge says something else, namely that Toyota can afford to add nearly $1 billion a year worth of people to its payroll to keep its growth rolling.
Even as Toyota executives sketch out plans to become the world's biggest auto maker, they still cling to the institutional inferiority complex that has characterized the corporate culture for more than 50 years, since the days when Toyota engineers humbly toured Ford's massive Rouge manufacturing complex in search of clues about how to make cars.
At Lexus for instance, Mr. Carter concedes that up until now, when wealthy customers considered their choices for premium luxury cars, "we weren't on those shopping lists" next to the segment defining Mercedes S Class and BMW 7 series. Now, Lexus hopes that the overachieving LS460, and the even more high-tech (and high priced) LS600h hybrid sedan, coming this spring, will be deemed worthy by these shoppers.
Lexus still has some road to travel to match the success of the two German luxury powerhouses, Mercedes and BMW. Globally, Lexus expects to sell about 400,000 cars this year, and aspires to get closer to 500,000 vehicles next year. BMW sold 597,120 BMW brand cars in the first half of this year alone.
Unlike baseball pennant races, contests for sales and dominance in the auto industry never end. A company's fortunes can change rapidly with a few bad calls on product, or some unforeseen shocks to the economy. Who knows? Maybe Lexus will bungle its plan to sell 30,000 or so of the new LS sedans in the US in 2007. More likely, the television spots and news stories last week about the Lexus that can park itself took care of next year's allocation.
So if you were wondering why GM, Ford and now Chrysler have been acting like the proverbial guys being chased through the woods by a grizzly bear, now you know what the bear looks like.
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September 25, 2006
EYES ON THE ROAD
By JOSEPH B. WHITE
Toyota to Detroit: We Will Bury You
Lexus Flagship Bristles With New Features
That Up the Ante as Detroit Rivals Wobble
September 25, 2006
Toyota Motor Corp. has a message for its struggling rivals in Detroit: We will bury you.
Of course, Toyota's leaders are far too diplomatic and cautious to say something as outrageous as that out loud.
Instead, Toyota delivers its message in more subtle ways. Such as bringing the new Lexus LS 460 to a hotel within sight of Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn, Mich., headquarters and innocently demonstrating the fact that the new top-of-the-line Lexus has a feature that allows the car to park itself, with the driver playing a minor supporting role.
This is one of those see-it-to-believe-it features (See video3). But the LS 460 can use an array of sonar distance-finding devices linked to the navigation system that can slide the car into a parallel-parking slot without the driver touching the steering wheel.
While you are admiring that trick, you can ponder that the LS 460's lustrous paint job is the result of a new painting process that involves robots specifically developed for the LS production line that can buff the car's curvy body along six different axes, instead of just up and down. And when the robots are done, Lexus has workers who go over the finish by hand.
The LS 460 has an eight-speed automatic transmission -- an industry first -- a state-of-the-art aluminum V-8 engine that cranks out 380 horsepower and is expected to get 19 miles to the gallon in the city and 27 miles to the gallon on the highway. (The Cadillac STS's Northstar V-8 by comparison is rated at 320 horsepower, 17 city and 26 mpg highway.) The long wheelbase, limo version of the new LS has an optional climate-control system that uses infrared sensors to detect whether occupants are overheating. The car has systems that sense a crash coming and prepare the brakes and airbags for impact -- a system similar in intent to one available on top end Mercedes cars.
The car's headlights were redesigned after the chief engineer decided the original prototypes didn't look enough like crystal. So he had a new prototype headlight made out of crystal, and had the supplier copy the look. The list goes on, and on and on.
Lexus's motto is "the relentless pursuit of perfection." It could just as well be simply, "Lexus. Relentless."
[Lexus LS 460]
In addition to many new features, the LS 460 has a more aggressive design4.
Lexus has problems. Sure. Lexus still isn't a major player in the market for cars priced above $70,000 -- a rarified segment that has doubled in size during the past five years, according to Lexus general manager Bob Carter. Should Lexus look at building another sedan to compete against the likes of Bentley? Or a super sports car to rival Ferrari or Porsche? Lexus is looking at both options, Mr. Carter says.
The Lexus LS 460 represents, in one elegant package, most of the reasons why Toyota is widely expected to become the world's No. 1 auto maker sometime within the next two years. It is a technological tour de force by a company that, relative to its strapped U.S. competition, has bottomless resources. Tricks like automatic parking technology are a lot easier to do if your company is making billions, and has a top-shelf credit rating. For GM and Ford, Detroit's junk-rated giants, everything comes harder.
Toyota chose last week to mention that it expects5 profits in the six month period that ends Sept. 30 will be 500 billion yen (or about $4.29 billion). Toyota's confident outlook, and its declaration that it intends to expand global vehicle sales to 9.8 million by 2008, an 11% increase from this year, stood in sharp contrast to the torrent of bad news hitting Detroit over the past several days. On a single day, Sept. 15, Ford outlined plans6 to hack 44,000 people off the payroll and Chrysler disclosed a likely $1.5 billion third quarter loss.
As for those quality problems that have been embarrassing Toyota over the past year or so, Toyota said it will attack them by hiring 8,000 engineers. This is more bad news for Detroit, since some of those 8,000 will likely be Ford, Chrysler or GM engineers who decide that, all things considered, working for Toyota is a better idea. The Toyota hiring binge says something else, namely that Toyota can afford to add nearly $1 billion a year worth of people to its payroll to keep its growth rolling.
Even as Toyota executives sketch out plans to become the world's biggest auto maker, they still cling to the institutional inferiority complex that has characterized the corporate culture for more than 50 years, since the days when Toyota engineers humbly toured Ford's massive Rouge manufacturing complex in search of clues about how to make cars.
At Lexus for instance, Mr. Carter concedes that up until now, when wealthy customers considered their choices for premium luxury cars, "we weren't on those shopping lists" next to the segment defining Mercedes S Class and BMW 7 series. Now, Lexus hopes that the overachieving LS460, and the even more high-tech (and high priced) LS600h hybrid sedan, coming this spring, will be deemed worthy by these shoppers.
Lexus still has some road to travel to match the success of the two German luxury powerhouses, Mercedes and BMW. Globally, Lexus expects to sell about 400,000 cars this year, and aspires to get closer to 500,000 vehicles next year. BMW sold 597,120 BMW brand cars in the first half of this year alone.
Unlike baseball pennant races, contests for sales and dominance in the auto industry never end. A company's fortunes can change rapidly with a few bad calls on product, or some unforeseen shocks to the economy. Who knows? Maybe Lexus will bungle its plan to sell 30,000 or so of the new LS sedans in the US in 2007. More likely, the television spots and news stories last week about the Lexus that can park itself took care of next year's allocation.
So if you were wondering why GM, Ford and now Chrysler have been acting like the proverbial guys being chased through the woods by a grizzly bear, now you know what the bear looks like.
• Send comments about Eyes on the Road to joseph.white@wsj.com7.
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09-25-2006, 06:56 PM
#400
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
Toyota Motor Corp. has a message for its struggling rivals in Detroit: We will bury you.
Toyota as the new Kruschev
Meh, I'm still rooting for Honda