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Old 05-27-2008, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
That's only implied reliability.... how many production V10s/V12s has Toyota made, and how reliable were they?

We'll see how this thing sells...
you think, given toyota's track record, they would put out something that's garbage? everyone has to start somewhere, but i doubt it's going to have any less reliability than a ferrari.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:50 PM
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Ferrari didn't start off building boring luxury cars Ferrari has almost always been iconic and people are willing to pay big money to have one. It represents more than the name. Lamborghini,Maserati,Bentley,Aston Martin and such are also pretty iconic and exclusive. They have always targeted the rich and the wealthy, of which were the only ones that could afford them.

I'm not sure how a $250,000 Toyota would fit in with all this when you can have a Ferrari F430 for almost $50k less. I think the recent success of Lexus is going straight to their head. Wasn't the IS-F supposed to be the affordable, easy to maintain M3 killer?
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:53 PM
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i'm not talking about who built what... someone questioned reliability. like i said, regardless of price tag, even if lexus hasn't made a production v-10 vehicle, i highly doubt their going to sacrifice reliability.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:09 PM
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here is a little social experiment:

what if toyota engineers created this car, but tagged it as an entirely different brand, even a new name. people would be drooling all over this as the world's newest and best supercar. instead, because it is tagged with lexus, people laugh.

ferrari and lamborghini essentially started out of no where. yes, they had mechanical and racing backgrounds, but they had no prior credits for selling production vehicles. yet people turned these into items are utmost dreams.

it's funny people laugh at a credited reliable manufacturer (and racing experience) producing a super car, but take a leap of faith on someone who has never produced a car before.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:45 PM
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You guys also have to remember that a good portion of car buyers don't even know that Toyota makes Lexus..
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:47 PM
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Even with that ridiculous price, the demand will be large enough to sell out all of production. (limited production)

After all, Lexus is targeting that top x% people who can purchase this type of vehicles without any financial distress.


just my thoughts.

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Old 05-28-2008, 02:17 AM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
you think, given toyota's track record, they would put out something that's garbage? everyone has to start somewhere, but i doubt it's going to have any less reliability than a ferrari.
Have you seen the recalls and TSBs put out for the Tundra and Camry recently?

Just because Toyota has quite the history of producing reliable automobiles doesn't mean their next cars aren't going to be foolproof.

Originally Posted by CleanCL
here is a little social experiment:

what if toyota engineers created this car, but tagged it as an entirely different brand, even a new name. people would be drooling all over this as the world's newest and best supercar. instead, because it is tagged with lexus, people laugh.

ferrari and lamborghini essentially started out of no where. yes, they had mechanical and racing backgrounds, but they had no prior credits for selling production vehicles. yet people turned these into items are utmost dreams.

it's funny people laugh at a credited reliable manufacturer (and racing experience) producing a super car, but take a leap of faith on someone who has never produced a car before.
Looks like this car has caught Nissan GT-R-itis already. Just because the car is the best thing since sliced bread and people are hating on it doesn't mean its time to pull out the badge-card. So what if its badged a Ferrari.... its ugly as shit, just like the GT-R. Not impressed.... yet. 95% of people will dismiss the car just because of the emblem on the hood, but I'm not one of them.

If Chevy made their next Z06 and it looked exactly like the GT-R, I would think its an ugly as hell too. If Porsche made their next 911 look like a Pontiac Aztek, I would think its disgustingly awful looking too.

Lamborghini started making tractors. Something I knew since I did a little project on them in the 5th grade. I don't care what a manufacturer has its roots in, unless its ethically wrong (like making nuclear bombs) If it gives you any indication, I really, really like the Genesis coupe.

I know you're quite the engine-builder (at least from your posts I've read) but you're taking quite the leap of faith yourself. As credited and experienced as Honda is and was, and with as much racing experience that they have, when they made their first 5-speed automatic transmission it turned out to be a huge piece of shit. That's nothing compared to the realm of producing a car that will be worth upwards of $200k.

They need to get everything right.... its nothing to shrug off or take as a given when they have Tundras with failing driveshaft u-joints and Camrys with 2G TL/CL-itis.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:55 AM
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well consider yourself one of the rare few that won't judge a car on it's badge. in terms of looks i disagree, the lf-a is pretty stunning in person. gt-r looks like shit.

ok, go ahead and jump into an 360 or 430 that have been known to spontaneously erupt into a ball of fire due to an oil leak issue that has gone unfixed between generations. or how about a murcielago which has had strings of clutches turning to mush.

btw - i wouldn't be caught dead in a non-american pickup. and since your logic seems to be, because a car is ugly, it's not worth buying, i would NEVER pick up that ugly tin can they call a camry. so no worries there.

again, car manufacturers have to start somewhere. acura produced a poor first generation 5 speed, but that didn't stop the 2G TL from becoming the hottest thing since sliced bread. it sure didn't slow them down when they created the 3G TL. and what's this... people still bought them too! imagine that.

i'm not saying the price tag is ok with me, but i'm just arguing the fact that everyone's (well almost everyone) only reason to hate on it is because of the emblem on the front.
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:11 AM
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You're comparing cars in different segments though. In the $150,000+ price range (hell, even lower) people are buying for the name. Anyway you slice it, thats just reality.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:19 PM
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:50 PM
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$20 bucks says they exceed sales expectations the first year, just like the $100k+ ls600 that everybody said wouldn't sell because of the name.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:31 AM
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Yeah, but the sales expectation could be low balled. The number you'll never hear is the break even point - will the car ever make money for Toyota? It took 10+ years to find out what a money pit the NSX was for Honda.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
Yeah, but the sales expectation could be low balled. The number you'll never hear is the break even point - will the car ever make money for Toyota? It took 10+ years to find out what a money pit the NSX was for Honda.

This is all relative as the car will theoretically make money sitting in the showroom by luring people in to check it out. Halo cars grab people's attention.. no matter the brand. People gain more respect for a brand when they see what they are capable of producing.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SSMTL01
This is all relative as the car will theoretically make money sitting in the showroom by luring people in to check it out. Halo cars grab people's attention.. no matter the brand. People gain more respect for a brand when they see what they are capable of producing.
Yup, can't tell you how much Porsche dealerships around me increased their walk-in sales just by sitting a Carrera GT in the middle of the showroom.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
Yup, can't tell you how much Porsche dealerships around me increased their walk-in sales just by sitting a Carrera GT in the middle of the showroom.


In addition, Lexus is trying their best to change the demographic of its customers to younger buyers. This is why Lexus came up with the idea of introducing the F-line models. It is one of many marketing tools that Lexus is trying to utilize in order to bring younger buyers into the showroom, and LF-A is one of them.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:55 PM
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:27 PM
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ok we have enough pictures of this thing, where are the numbers?
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:59 PM
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Dont think they got numbers because they wrecked it
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:28 PM
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i just want to know the HP and Torque this motor is putting out.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:14 PM
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damn looks like something out of Alien.. or the Matrix..or Starcraft..

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/delobbo/2535062784/" title="LFAengineshot by delobbo, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2535062784_1f1acca3c3_o.jpg" width="820" height="621" alt="LFAengineshot" /></a>
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
damn looks like something out of Alien.. or the Matrix..or Starcraft..

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/delobbo/2535062784/" title="LFAengineshot by delobbo, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2535062784_1f1acca3c3_o.jpg" width="820" height="621" alt="LFAengineshot" /></a>
reminds me of the Zerg Guardian from Starcraft!!
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:26 PM
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right!?!?!
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + TL
reminds me of the Zerg Guardian from Starcraft!!
damn, that brings back many sleepless nights. what's with the single tiny strut bar? i'm guessing it's made out of titanium or something.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
damn looks like something out of Alien.. or the Matrix..or Starcraft..

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/delobbo/2535062784/" title="LFAengineshot by delobbo, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2535062784_1f1acca3c3_o.jpg" width="820" height="621" alt="LFAengineshot" /></a>
...well, it'd better fly like the Enterprise to justify that pricetag.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marketing Daily
http://publications.mediapost.com/in...&art_aid=83731
At one point in Sinclair Lewis' novel "Babbit" about the dyspeptic ambitions of a real estate salesman, the title character tools about town in his new car, his friend riding shotgun. In the scene, he proudly extols the virtues of the dashboard cigar lighter, an emblem of affluence.


The Luxury Institute, which studies such things, released a survey this month that says the nameplate, not the lighter, makes the rich man or woman (even if she does smoke cigars).

The New York-based firm rolled out a ranking of luxury-vehicle brands preferred by affluent consumers. The rankings are based on its Luxury Brand Status Index, an online survey of 1,642 wealthy American consumers with an average income of $349,000 and average net worth of $3.7 million.

For overall brand status, Porsche got the most votes, with Lexus and Mercedes ranking second and third, respectively. Mercedes has been working hard in the post-Chrysler era to rebuild its status and appeal to younger, performance-oriented luxury-car buyers.

Also included in the ratings were Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, and Volvo. BMW ranked fourth, Jaguar fifth, and Lincoln was last of the 12 brands covered, in terms of overall status.

Those who rated the brands most favorably tended to be males over the age of 55, with average household income between $150,000 and $199,000 and over $300,000, and net worth under $1 million. Lexus was the luxury brand the largest group of respondents--14.4%--said they would consider for their next purchase.

Milton Pedraza, CEO of the Luxury Institute, says the overall luxury brand status ranking is an amalgam of responses on product quality, customer service, and intangibles such as whether a product is unique and exclusive, owned by others one respects, and how special it makes one feel across the spectrum of customer experience.

Pedraza says that in addition to the top three, others that did well include Acura and Infiniti. He says the Cadillac product has scored well, but "consumers are ambivalent because it has been inconsistent, for several reasons. It's inconsistent in terms of prestige. Consumers have a clearer perception of what a brand like Lexus is. Cadillac is still bouncing around in ratings."

In terms of customer experience, the Institute rated Lexus No. 1, and Acura and Infiniti were second and third. And tied were Volvo, BMW, Audi and Cadillac. "In the previous year, Cadillac was No. 1."

As for Porsche, Pedraza says the brand unites design with its unassailable (so far) aerie as the quintessential sports car for a serious driver. "They are incredibly focused, their styling is unique, and they have been consistent over the decades," he says.

What about the Ultimate Driving Machine? "A lot of [respondents]--particularly the purists--said they have been turned off by the styling of the BMW," says Pedraza, referring to BMW chief of design Chris Bangle's alterations to the brand's hitherto squared-off look. Bangle brought Baroque curves, odd geometry and the occasional hood hump to cars like the 2002 7-Series (widely lambasted for items like its obtrusive rear deck and i-Drive do-it-all controller) and Z4 coupe.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:09 PM
  #266  
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I dunno, maybe they will sell all of them for whatever price they ask, but I just think they would make a bigger splash with this car if it were in the Audi R8 price range...the most expensive car in the lineup, but not by an obscene amount.
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:52 AM
  #267  
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The Automotive News is reporting early today that Lexusí remaining entries into the high performance sector have suffered yet another blow.

The high profile LF-A which was supposed to arrive later this year, has failed again to make performance targets for the second time. Lexus has decided to push back the $160,000 sports car back to late 2010 or early 2011. Persistent rumors remain on the viability of the project in general, and whether not Lexus truly needs the LF-A as a halo car to define the brand. We can all agree this If the LF-A fails to meet performance marks for yet a third time the entire project may be doomed to failure simply because a total redesign will now be on the block.

The upcoming GS-F the bigger and supposedly badder brother to the IS-F, has also been placed on hold until at least 2011 when the GS undergoes a complete redesign. A final decision will be made at that time if the GS-F will be produced.

With these highly visible delays of a high profile projects, Lexus has increased the speculation on just how healthy the luxury marque is both in the US and abroad. While we personally donít think Lexus is in dire financial trouble, the possible cancellation of any of these projects may place a shadow on any future efforts to establish Lexus as anything other than a Cadillac contender.

No chance in hell the project is scrapped.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:00 PM
  #268  
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forget this halo, just come out with a SC coupe remake. please.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:46 PM
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They've failed to meet their expected performance numbers for the second time. What are they targeting for? It'd have been great if they give us some rough numbers.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:04 PM
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Wow they are pulling an Acura big time.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + TL
They've failed to meet their expected performance numbers for the second time. What are they targeting for? It'd have been great if they give us some rough numbers.
they delayed the is-f because of the shocking performance of the cheaper Nissan GTR. If the GTR didn't come out, the ISF would've been out already.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:07 PM
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it's not like Lexus had no idea of GTR.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:32 PM
  #273  
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^^^^^ I agree. If the LF-A is in the luxury supercar category like the Porsche, Lambo, and Ferrari, it doesn't have to beat the GT-R in performance in order to sell. Otherwise, Porsche and Ferrari should also consider scrapping some of their existing "under-performing" supercars.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:47 PM
  #274  
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Apparently the 'Ring' time now appears on the brochure. Every car magazine also now tests the car on the 'Ring'. So they want to make sure its capable of a good time.

This fascination with the Ring is getting ridiculous. 4 or 5 years ago most people had no idea what it was. Now its dictating release dates.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
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I kinda understand your point, but still, it's a good way of measuring the all around performance, isn't it?
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackruner228
Wow they are pulling an Acura big time.
+1
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dom
Apparently the 'Ring' time now appears on the brochure. Every car magazine also now tests the car on the 'Ring'. So they want to make sure its capable of a good time.

This fascination with the Ring is getting ridiculous. 4 or 5 years ago most people had no idea what it was. Now its dictating release dates.
I also think the vast majority of people have NO CLUE exactly how fast it is for a car to do 7:xx whatever at the ring.. have a look at this video of the '09 ZR1, look at the MPH display in particular - picture yourself, driving this car, at these speeds, on these roads... I mean seriously - have a real close look and contemplation of this video - leave it playing for a while and just watch. Keep watching. WTF - the vast majority of people would pretty much guaranteed crash and most likely die trying to do any driving such as this.

<embed src="http://videos.streetfire.net/vidiac.swf?video=a3c9010d-3ec7-4818-8c87-9ad50112d16b&cspid=4886b05e093642b1" id="w4852a3180b8a34b74886b05e093642b1" width="428" height="352" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer">
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:20 PM
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^^^^^ Thanks, this is good stuff.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:21 PM
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Sounds like acura.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by srika
I also think the vast majority of people have NO CLUE exactly how fast it is for a car to do 7:xx whatever at the ring.. have a look at this video of the '09 ZR1, look at the MPH display in particular - picture yourself, driving this car, at these speeds, on these roads... I mean seriously - have a real close look and contemplation of this video - leave it playing for a while and just watch. Keep watching. WTF - the vast majority of people would pretty much guaranteed crash and most likely die trying to do any driving such as this.
All true, but to the car rags and the marketeers those numbers do matter - the ole "my car is better than your car" mentality.
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