Lexus: GS News

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Old 02-17-2005, 05:32 PM
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Nice pics. Considering what most of you drive and your age, you wouldn't know luxury if it slapped the taste out your mouth. What is the price for this car?
Old 02-17-2005, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
Jesus fucking christ, this is the first time ever I have seen so much plastic in a Lexus interior. Even more than the Canadaian-made RX-330...
they should've used the fake wood in acura's... much more classy with fake wood that a blind person could tell its fake...
Old 02-17-2005, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
Nice pics. Considering what most of you drive and your age, you wouldn't know luxury if it slapped the taste out your mouth. What is the price for this car?
$50k.

My family actually has an A6, so I know about luxury. The A6 looks better than the GS, IMO. The GS looks boring on the outside.

I actually like the buttons stored away. It's not like you use them everyday.

One item that caught my attention is brake-by-wire. That scares me a bit.
Old 02-17-2005, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
Nice pics. Considering what most of you drive and your age, you wouldn't know luxury if it slapped the taste out your mouth. What is the price for this car?
Criticizing someones opinion based off their age or what they drive is a pretty weak attemp at defending this boring ass lexus.
Old 02-17-2005, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
Criticizing someones opinion based off their age or what they drive is a pretty weak attemp at defending this boring ass lexus.
So what car in this class would u say is not boring or weak? Lets see
A6 boring and weak b/c it looks like the old car and auto only
5 series, ugly inside and out but has a manual, so rules all other cars
E, beautiful but weak b/c its not the fastest, auto only
Rl, clearly boring, has power but has avg acceleration timesm auto only
LS, boring, weak, b/c its American made, auto only
M, boring and strong, looks like an Altima, fast engines, auto only
S-class, boring and weak b/c it likes old and auto only
GS, boring and weak b/c you say so
STS, boring and weak b/c its American made and costs too much.

Is this what you think? Looking here, seems the GS competes with power and clearly is one of the most stylish. Have you driven the car or seen it? Have you driven or seen ANY of these cars???? Have you every owned a luxury car?

I am just a little curious.
Old 02-17-2005, 07:59 PM
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This is a fairly ugly car. The ergonomics of the drop down panel on the left side of the steering wheel seem like a pretty weird idea too. I doubt it will sell well. The Acura RL and Infiniti M45 seem to be better cars. Personally I think I'd even go with a fully loaded 300C or a 6 cylinder STS before I'd consider this car.

The cowl height seems pretty high too. If your gonna pull off that look you need a creased angular roofline like the 300C or H2 have. This thing looks like an automotive aardvark

Last edited by SpeedyV6; 02-17-2005 at 08:03 PM.
Old 02-17-2005, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Is this what you think? Looking here, seems the GS competes with power and clearly is one of the most stylish. Have you driven the car or seen it? Have you driven or seen ANY of these cars???? Have you every owned a luxury car?

I am just a little curious.
If we're talking about the designs, what does ownership have to do with it? I own none of those cars, yet I can still critique. With the exception of the newer cars such as the M35, RL, GS and STS, I've seen all those other cars in real and sat in them at auto shows.

Driving and owning the cars have no relevance to the discussion if you're just talking about the styling, IMO.
Old 02-17-2005, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gilboman
they should've used the fake wood in acura's... much more classy with fake wood that a blind person could tell its fake...
You're wrong. People who sat in the TSX and TL at the auto shows couldn't tell it's fake wood. Next time you're at one of those, just eavesdrop and hear for yourself.
Old 02-17-2005, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by phile
You're wrong. People who sat in the TSX and TL at the auto shows couldn't tell it's fake wood. Next time you're at one of those, just eavesdrop and hear for yourself.
The sad thing is the other cars with fake wood are what, Maximas, Accords, Camrys, Kias, Hyundais, Corollas. I mean your right the fake wood is as good as it gets but its still fake.

Anyway
Old 02-17-2005, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gilboman
they should've used the fake wood in acura's... much more classy with fake wood that a blind person could tell its fake...
my god, you're still here. why aren't you banned yet. all you do is TROLL, TROLL, TROLL. i we all know you hate acuras. why do you continue posting? you're like another 1sickidiot.
Old 02-17-2005, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
The sad thing is the other cars with fake wood are what, Maximas, Accords, Camrys, Kias, Hyundais, Corollas. I mean your right the fake wood is as good as it gets but its still fake.

Anyway
why does it even matter if it's real? just so you can SAY it's real? i'm sure the wood in my dad's new e-class is real but how would anyone know if it was? people can only take cheap shots at acura when they feel back into a corner.
"TL/RL/TSX are all 'just' dressed up accords. they all have fake wood" blah blah blah
Old 02-17-2005, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
So what car in this class would u say is not boring or weak? Lets see
A6 boring and weak b/c it looks like the old car and auto only
5 series, ugly inside and out but has a manual, so rules all other cars
E, beautiful but weak b/c its not the fastest, auto only
Rl, clearly boring, has power but has avg acceleration timesm auto only
LS, boring, weak, b/c its American made, auto only
M, boring and strong, looks like an Altima, fast engines, auto only
S-class, boring and weak b/c it likes old and auto only
GS, boring and weak b/c you say so
STS, boring and weak b/c its American made and costs too much.

Is this what you think? Looking here, seems the GS competes with power and clearly is one of the most stylish. Have you driven the car or seen it? Have you driven or seen ANY of these cars???? Have you every owned a luxury car?

I am just a little curious.
lol, go buy your old mans lexus, old man. your post makes you sound like you're getting pissed at the negative responses towards the GS. guess what, this is a message board. an acura message board as well. if you want people to sackride all over the GS, head on over to clublexus
Old 02-18-2005, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
The sad thing is the other cars with fake wood are what, Maximas, Accords, Camrys, Kias, Hyundais, Corollas. I mean your right the fake wood is as good as it gets but its still fake.

Anyway
That's a more cynical view of things. The fake wood in the new TL, despite it being fake, looks far more convincing than the wood in, say, a Corolla.

But I don't know why it should matter anyway, some leather portions on most luxury cars are actually fake, that's why the brochures specifically say "leather seating surfaces, " but no one seems to point those things out. And that's true for not just Acura, but M-B and BMW as well more plebeian names like Honda and Toyota. Only the cream of the crop cars have full leather seating (and they'll certainly say so in the brochures ).
Old 02-18-2005, 12:09 AM
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And I don't argue that it's not a cost saving move on Acura's part to have fake, as opposed to real, wood in its cars; cause it clearly is. But it seems like those who are not in support of Acura see that as something to pick at, but should it matter, even if the wood does a convincing job of imitating real wood? Are you, as a customer, adversely affected somehow by this?
Old 02-18-2005, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by phile
And I don't argue that it's not a cost saving move on Acura's part to have fake, as opposed to real, wood in its cars; cause it clearly is. But it seems like those who are not in support of Acura see that as something to pick at, but should it matter, even if the wood does a convincing job of imitating real wood? Are you, as a customer, adversely affected somehow by this?
I mean, clearly its no deal breaker it would be nice to have it. No biggie. Thanks for the responses. But reading in some of these threads, some of the posters= . Like this one from the Ruf 911 thread
Originally Posted by Lung Fu Mo Shi
Porsche's are for graying, balding men trying to look cool.

Sreriously, look around. 8/10 Porsches will have a 50 year man driving.
I won't comment on the spelling, its the net. But jeez, this kid doesn't know a thing about Porsches and probably doesn't even now how to verbally say it correctly. Anyway. Thanks Phile

Last edited by LessisBestmakingendsmeet; 02-18-2005 at 12:16 AM.
Old 02-18-2005, 06:04 AM
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I'll be at the Toronto Auto SHow tommorrow. I'm going sit in this thing to see what it really feels like.
Old 02-18-2005, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by iNteGraz92
you're like another 1sickidiot.
lol...we dont want another one of those
Old 02-18-2005, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Is this what you think? Looking here, seems the GS competes with power and clearly is one of the most stylish. Have you driven the car or seen it? Have you driven or seen ANY of these cars???? Have you every owned a luxury car?

I am just a little curious.
You seem to like the looks of it, but most dont...deal with it. Its an ugly car in my opinion. I guess we'll have to see how it sells. And yes ive seen it inside and out---Not impressed whatsoever. Compared to older lexus cars, the interior in this one looks cheap
Old 02-18-2005, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
I'll be at the Toronto Auto SHow tommorrow. I'm going sit in this thing to see what it really feels like.
Same here, I will go to the autoshow tomorrow.
Old 02-18-2005, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
So what car in this class would u say is not boring or weak? Lets see
A6 boring and weak b/c it looks like the old car and auto only
5 series, ugly inside and out but has a manual, so rules all other cars
E, beautiful but weak b/c its not the fastest, auto only
Rl, clearly boring, has power but has avg acceleration timesm auto only
LS, boring, weak, b/c its American made, auto only
M, boring and strong, looks like an Altima, fast engines, auto only
S-class, boring and weak b/c it likes old and auto only
GS, boring and weak b/c you say so
STS, boring and weak b/c its American made and costs too much.

Is this what you think? Looking here, seems the GS competes with power and clearly is one of the most stylish. Have you driven the car or seen it? Have you driven or seen ANY of these cars???? Have you every owned a luxury car?

I am just a little curious.
Arguing with you over which car you prefer is pointless, for everyone it’s going to be different, but usually when a car is truly a great new addition to the market- most people will agree that it is. I think the new design is uninspiring for a successor to the current gs and is weak considering the company has so many resources at hand.

Your final questions are something typically seen by most trolls on car forums, trying to win a war of opinions with personal attacks on the replier. All the cars are available to be looked at and sat in at the local auto show so even a 13yr old, who doesn't own a car, could come up with an educated opinion about the lexus gs.
Old 02-19-2005, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
Jesus fucking christ, this is the first time ever I have seen so much plastic in a Lexus interior. Even more than the Canadaian-made RX-330...
Nonsense, the standard LS430 (not the UL package) has just as much plastic. Not to mention, have you ever sat in the new 5series? Plastic galore... Eclass? Plastic Galore.

The GS has leather stitched padding on the sides of the console, doors, seats, center armrest, steering wheel, shiftknob.

You want a leather covered dash for $55k? Lol.

Old 02-19-2005, 10:31 AM
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^^A lexus water bottle? Uber :ghey:
Old 02-19-2005, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
Nonsense, the standard LS430 (not the UL package) has just as much plastic. Not to mention, have you ever sat in the new 5series? Plastic galore... Eclass? Plastic Galore.

The GS has leather stitched padding on the sides of the console, doors, seats, center armrest, steering wheel, shiftknob.

You want a leather covered dash for $55k? Lol.

Goodness, someone that knows what they are talking about. Then again, we are debating with people trying to point out that there is nothing wrong with plastic wood in a luxury badged car.

Good point Beltfred.
Old 02-19-2005, 04:39 PM
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I just came back from the Toronto autoshow, I still stand for what I said earlier. GS got too much plastic for the dash. the $39k(CND) ES330 got a far better interior.

See the real thing for yourself first before you throw out all of these "non-senses".
Old 02-19-2005, 04:52 PM
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One more thing I saw at the autoshow: M35/45 looks a lot better in real life. Both exterior and interior. Better than GS at least.
Old 02-19-2005, 04:55 PM
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I think overall that the car is weak but I disagree about the wood/plastic topic. I would much rather have interior color plastic (like the above GS) than fake wood. Very few cars use real wood anyways.

In my opinion, this new GS is a huge improvement over the old one. But until Lexus improves all models performance and exterior looks, I won't waste my time going to one of the dealers.
Old 02-19-2005, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
I just came back from the Toronto autoshow, I still stand for what I said earlier. GS got too much plastic for the dash. the $39k(CND) ES330 got a far better interior..
I disagree completely, an ES330? Get a grip......just sat in the GS430 today with my buddy.

The car is super nice (we were both impressed), also looked at the M45.......would call both a draw. Although I hate the ATM type layout of the M (yuck). I like the exterior of both cars.

GS430 was in crystal white with the 18s, very pimp looking car.

I think 0-60 in 5.7sec is very adequate for the GS. The M45 is definitely a sportier car and definitely a few ticks quicker by most accounts.

Buy the car that makes you happy.
Old 02-19-2005, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
Nonsense, the standard LS430 (not the UL package) has just as much plastic. Not to mention, have you ever sat in the new 5series? Plastic galore... Eclass? Plastic Galore.

The GS has leather stitched padding on the sides of the console, doors, seats, center armrest, steering wheel, shiftknob.

You want a leather covered dash for $55k? Lol.

The ls430 having as much plastic as this, and I agree, doesn't make this car any better of a lexus (although its a lot better than the 5-series imo), it just means Lexus has room for improvement- no doubt in my mind audi/vw lead in interiors as far as design and materials although mercedes is making a comeback.

Inside the car, I dunno, like I said a while ago, without some sort of wood or aluminum on the dash it seems to fall into a boring class of non luxury design because thats what non luxury car makers do with the dash- no extras; every luxury maker out there on the other hand uses something extra on the dash because its expected/ something over the standard class.

It also doesn't look like those leg pads are standard, although a nice touch, unless something has changed, compare pics

Old 02-19-2005, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
I disagree completely, an ES330? Get a grip......just sat in the GS430 today with my buddy.

The car is super nice (we were both impressed), also looked at the M45.......would call both a draw. Although I hate the ATM type layout of the M (yuck). I like the exterior of both cars.

GS430 was in crystal white with the 18s, very pimp looking car.

I think 0-60 in 5.7sec is very adequate for the GS. The M45 is definitely a sportier car and definitely a few ticks quicker by most accounts.

Buy the car that makes you happy.
I wouldn't say both GS and M are "super nice", but GS just didn't do it to me so I think M is the better one.
Old 02-20-2005, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
t also doesn't look like those leg pads are standard, although a nice touch, unless something has changed, compare pics.
Far as I know its standard (at least with the leather interior).
Old 02-20-2005, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
I wouldn't say both GS and M are "super nice", but GS just didn't do it to me so I think M is the better one.

For the $, they are very nice cars.........they aren't A8s, but aren't priced like them either.
Old 02-20-2005, 09:57 AM
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In all honesty, I'd take an M over a GS or RL anyday (because of the addition of great sportiness mostly).

But I really think the RL has the best quality interior. Great quality leather is used all around the cockpit and overs every part of the interior. The fit and finish is incredible also. The only issue I think I have with the car is the dash material; it seems like it came straight out of the TL or TSX. However, I do like the good quality of the main material on the dash of the TL and TSX, but some picky buyers might not like knowing that 49k is buying some 27-36k materials.

The GS looks and feels beautiful, but there are some areas where they cut some corners. Again, to a picky buyer, they might see that (then again, the automotive ignorant will fall for the "prestigous" "L" badge). The interior is simple in both looks and control, and that might appeal to some (sure does to me).

The M has some typical Nissan issues with the interior, but it is 10x better than any other Nissan I have EVER seen. The interior ergonomics are not as bad as I thought they were in the pictures, but in person, the "i-drive" type controller Infiniti has gave me a drawback, it has WAAAY too much going on. Also, it seems as if Nissan did not get the simplicity factor like Toyota and Honda did in my opinion, but this is still a great car. Oh, and that wood looks TERRIBLE! Draped leather in a 2005?

Overall interior design taking in all factors, I really think the RL is the best.

Overall exterior design taking in all factors, I really think the GS is the best.

My overall opinion taking in all factors, I really think the M would win my money (but I'm still waaay too young to even think 50k ).

also; don't forget the A6 .
Old 02-21-2005, 03:45 PM
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I saw it at the AutoShow....one word....YAWN!
Old 02-25-2005, 04:01 PM
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I just finished test driving the new GS300 AWD. The main option package had Adaptive Headlights, head light washers, auto wipers, heated/ cooled seats, pwr rear window shade, and pwr folding mirrorss. Sunroof, run-flat tires, wood/leather steering wheel, and Navi w/ compass and rearview cam were stand alone options.

The interior is NICE. Lexus does know how to treat wood trim in their cars. The ride was about the same as it is in my TL. I would guess that was due to the GS's run-flats. Handling was good for that size of car. I was surprised that the engine was a loud as it was while idling. Inside the car it was a low hum. Very quiet at 70mph and with the 6 spd auto there seemed to be some extra coming from the motor when passing. Yes I know the RL has way more pwr as a matter of fact my TL has more, but the extra cog is a nice touch.

For a list price of $49,995, I'd have to consider one over the RL. Yes the RL has standards all over the place, but as I've said before, it is the little extra luxuries that make a lux car stand out. I'd give up a little in the engine room for pwr folding mirrors and the cooling feature of the seats. THAT is a must have IMO when you live in a warm/ hot area. It was fairly warm today and having cool air blowing from the seats was nice. And for Canada people your lucky to have a cooling seat feature we do not get.

The M45 w/sport package I saw at our auto show was nice and I was impressed with all of the gadgets, but right now I'm sold on the GS first, RL second.
Old 02-25-2005, 05:12 PM
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Eh. Improvement, but I really think its need to be a little more edgy.
Old 03-08-2005, 11:36 AM
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2006 Lexus GS - - TechnoBabble Battle: New GS uses technology to chase the 5 Series - - By MARK VAUGHN - - Source: Autoweek

Published Date: 3/7/05
2006 LEXUS GS 300
ON SALE: Now
BASE PRICE: $43,550
POWERTRAIN: 3.0-liter, 245-hp, 230-lb-ft V6; rwd, six-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT: 3536 lbs
0 to 60 MPH: 6.8 seconds (mfr.)

You’ve heard comparisons listing the relative computing powers of Apollo 11 and various modern automotive functions. (e.g., “Why, the key fob alone could have landed our astronauts on the moon!”) Well, the new Lexus GS has more computing power than the space shuttle, the International Space Station, the Hubbell space telescope and any leftover Russian and Chinese space junk crashing through orbit today.

Or at least it seems that way when reading the spec sheet.

While the rest of the all-new car has the improvements you’d expect in a new Lexus—more power, longer wheelbase, wider stance, new body panels, etc.—it’s the technology onslaught that stands out and overwhelms.

There is everything from VDIM to PCS, and even things you’d never think of, like the function with no acronym that automatically countersteers the car into a crosswind. (Crosswind Resistance Adjustment Program?) Every letter of the alphabet gets a workout in this car. To cover it all would take two more pages of the magazine. Why all this gizmometry? The all-tech, all-the-time BMW 5 Series was the benchmark in development of the new GS.


“We did not set out to build a better 5 Series,” said chief engineer Shigetoshi Miyoshi. “Our goal was to create something different, and in its difference, something superior in overall performance.”

Superior to the 5? Hey, man, that’s talking some serious smack, Miyoshi-san. To gauge whether he succeeded, let’s have a look at these new cars, the GS 300 and the GS 430.

We might have expected the 300 to be a 330 and to share the same 3.3-liter V6 with other Toyotas. Instead, it gets a new aluminum alloy 3.0-liter V6 to replace the old iron-block straight-six. The new V6 shares its block and a few other items with the Avalon and 4Runner, but gets its own heads, direct injection and variable cam timing on both the intake and exhaust. The engine makes 245 hp at 6200 rpm and 230 lb-ft at 3600.

Like the GS 430, the 300 is mated to a smooth six-speed automatic with a sequential shift option. All-wheel drive is a new option on the GS 300, with front, rear and center differentials. Power is split 50:50 front-to-rear on launch, during heavy acceleration, or when the wheels detect slip. It’s 30:70 the rest of the time. There is also electronic traction control on both the 300 and 430, which brakes individual slipping wheels.

The GS 430 gets the carryover engine, but it’s still a heck of an engine. It makes 300 hp at 5600 rpm and 325 lb-ft at 3400, both figures spread wide across the graph thanks to the variable timing on both cams. Lexus says the 430 gets you to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds. Last time we tested a 5 Series with the 4.4-liter V8, we got 5.63 seconds 0 to 60, so, given the Lexus number is from Lexus, we might have a new comparison test to do.

The GS 300 gets to 60 in 6.8 seconds, which Lexus claims is quicker than the 530i. Could be. But straight-line acceleration is just one measure of a sports sedan. Curb weights come into performance play, as the 300 weighs just 3536 pounds vs. the 430’s 3745 pounds. That is within tens of pounds of the 5 Series. The difference here is the 300’s weight is distributed 53/47 front/rear, the 430’s 54/46. The 5 Series is a perfect 50/50.

Suspension, often highlighted extensively in sports sedan intros, was almost glossed over at the GS intro in favor of acronyms, something a sports sedan maker wouldn’t do. It’s a double-wishbone setup in front and upper and lower control arms in back. That is promising, as so many sporty cars go with inexpensive struts up front and various multilink setups in back that hop when the going gets twisty. This one didn’t, though neither did it feel like the best-connected in class, either. Like everything else here, the suspension is controlled electronically, with four driver-selectable modes.

Summer tires are standard in both the 300 and 430, all-season run-flats are optional. The BMW has variable steering and so does the Lexus. Lexus’ version is called Variable Gear Ratio Steering, which varies from 3.3 turns lock-to-lock to 2.7. Variability comes at the rack itself, which is electrically operated.

The brakes are vented discs front and rear with high-friction pads, the performance of which Lexus described as “about like throwing an anchor out of the trunk.” We found them way too touchy at all speeds. Lexus said it was reworking the amount of boost to the brakes. Electronics plays a huge part in braking, perhaps bigger than with any system on the car, including ABS, Electronic Brake Force Distribution, Brake Assist to add force when necessary, the TRAC traction control and Vehicle Stability Control.

Just about the whole driving part of the car is controlled by the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management system, sort of the mother of all acronyms. VDIM integrates most of the above-mentioned systems. Using its giant brain, it compares your vehicle’s intended motion with that of its actual motion and makes whatever desperate electronic corrections it can to save your fenders. Should it, using the radar system from the cruise control, surmise you are determined to kill yourself, it will, via the Pre-Collision System, stiffen the suspension, tighten your seatbelt, sound a warning and even begin braking for you.

But it can only do so much. The idea with all the electronic controls is to perform their functions without being intrusive. At this goal, Lexus has generally succeeded. Though we never got a chance to violently flail the car around to see how it would react in severe under- and/or oversteer situations, throughout a long day’s drive on twisty, rainy mountain roads we never got the sense the systems were nannying us, nor that they were even working most of the time. And we never hit anything. So it must work, right?

We’d like to toss it around on our test track and through our slalom to see how all this plays out. While it feels sound and fun now, we will withhold judgment until we can thrash it without adult supervision.

At the end of our half-day drive in the GS models—the 300, awd 300 and 430—none jumped out as being a BMW-beater. That 50/50 BMW balance has a lot to do with that, as does a more tightly controlled suspension, born of looping Alpine passes 50 years ago. The Lexus is good, but we would like a car that is good first of all without those electronic life-savers, as the 5 Series was when it was born, and then adds the electronics afterward, instead of depending on it to get there.

We will get back to you after several more drives in the new GS as to exactly how close it gets to the iconic 5. Maybe we can even do one of those DoubleTake features. (Are you listening, Road Test Editor?)

In the meantime, cars are in showrooms waiting for you to make your own decision—there are plenty of Lexus loyalists out there who won’t care about what anyone says about the BMW alternative. The GS is priced from $43,550 for the base 300, $45,500 for the awd 300 and $51,775 for the base 430. That’s before you pile on options like the fabulous Mark Levinson stereo system.

After a seven-year wait, this is a lot to cram into one car, and it is a car we look forward to driving a lot more.
Old 03-08-2005, 11:44 AM
  #397  
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This "perfect" 50/50 "BMW balance" is way too overated (as a reason for super handling). That's not (ONLY) why BMWs handle they way they do. If it were that simple, everyone would be able to achieve it easily.
Old 03-08-2005, 12:22 PM
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The GS is nice as I've said but I would agree that the handeling isn't all that great and I'm sure the GS300 AWD I drove did not have the fancy stuff of the 430.

In the end my TL is more fun to drive.
Old 03-09-2005, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
Eh. Improvement, but I really think its need to be a little more edgy.
Lexus buyers want little in the world less than they want "edgy".
Old 03-09-2005, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jdone
Lexus buyers want little in the world less than they want "edgy".
Then they will always play 2nd fiddle to MB


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