F23A4

I'll do you one better: Nice to have the option of affording cars within said pricepoint despite the probable (as you so eloquently stated) "sucky ownership experience".

Particularly given that the 7 series has had it's share of issues, there arent too many other places towards which to run in this category. Sasid buyers may have to opt for the Equus afterall.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

S-Classes of the present generation have been ranked reliable, though. Same goes for the LS.

When it comes down to it, both are reliable despite some problems. You don't think of Camrys or Accords as unreliable despite the problems we're well aware of.

SpicyMikey

Gives me a headache sometimes. I don't like the way they implemented the grill on the TL. It's a hot mess and needs to be redone like the TSX or even the nex ZDX. But I scratch my head when people complain about other things. The argument about plastic versus real metal versus wood versus plood is funny too. At least Acura uses uses real leather in all their cars. Most of the competing BMW 3's and MB C's on the road have vinyl seats in addition to plastic wood trim and plastic chrome parts. Not to put MB or BMW down for it. If it works and holds up, who cares? maybe Acura should start offering pleather options to get costs down for those who don't care about such things.

smarty666

The plastic looking splashes were my only complaint about the interior, as I said before, but many over look, the rest of the interior is fantastic and this sole complaint would not keep me from getting the new TL, most of that is coming from the exterior any way. The interior is not what is keeping TL sales down.

Anyway, since everyone is in a hissy fit over changing topics, why don't we talk about Lexus since that was the original topic. They too have begun cutting corners in material quality in a certain areas. I noticed one or two things in then new RX350 when I test drove it that I thought were not good either. The only ones I haven't noticed the cost cutting as much is in Audi and Infiniti interior's. I mean Infiniti is a no brainer since their interiors, pre 2007 were such crap, they are only getting better every generation to the point, the new M interior is pretty competitive and on the level of the other luxury competition. In regards to Lexus finances, I personally feel, they didn't get hurt AS MUCH by recent events like Toyota did and they'll pull through this. Lexus is still selling a hell of a lot of vehicles despite all the recent bad PR press.

Agree with you 100% about the BMW and MB vinyl. To spend 40 and 50 grand on one of them and get vinyl is insulating to say the least.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The only Lexus I'd really go for would be the new LS460 Sport (or the LX570 if I need a SUV). The rest of the lineup doesn't inspire me much. Well there is the ISF.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

But I like my cars to insulate me.

smarty666

wow, lol!!! I didn't even catch my goof till you pointed it out just now!

SpicyMikey

I bought an 09 is250 for my daughter last year. It's been flawless so far and she says she loves it. But I've driven it a few times for 1 hr+ rides. It's seats are uncomfortable, the interior is too much like a Toyota, and it's seriously underpowered. Its just not well designed for a guys size and a V8 wont help that. Well equipped it's the same price as a TL tech but far inferior in every way except maybe looks. I can't recommend it but agree the LS is very nice for the price if you want a softer ride than maybe a 750.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Well the ISF has different seats to my knowledge, though whether or not that means just extra bolstering or more redesigned seats I do not know. As you could tell, the ISF was an afterthought anyway. LOL. For that money I'd much rather have the CTS-V. I've driven the IS350 and it doesn't impress me. Handles "well" but many sedans handle "well" in that price range. It just feels like a small, lithe sedan that's got some serious power, not a real sport sedan. That's me, though.

The LS460S appeals to me based on its 75K price, which is a lot less than its only real competitor, the 750i M-Sport, which with the M-Sport alone tops 90 grand on BMW's site.

The LS is almost on the price tier of E550s and 550is, and its interior, room, and prestige far exceed them.

CL6

Girls like the IS and don't care about its flaws. It is a pretty safe, reliable car overall.

When it rains and you open the trunk all the water dumps onto your stuff. But it's been a good seller for Lexus.

All the parts stamped "Toyota" under the hood.

smarty666

I like the IS but as you all pointed it out, the downside is its size. Its just too small and cramped. You have to go up into the ES to get the extra room, but then you sacrifice the handling/ride, etc for snooze worthy. Hopefully, Lexus will make it bigger in its next generation, maybe closer in size to the current TSX or just a little bigger than that.

SpicyMikey

It's not just the seats though. It's the whole ergonomics of the interior; front leg room, positioning of things, orientation of the steering wheel to the seat, etc. Just seems to be best meant for someone with short legs driving with the seat closer up. Plus the back seat is almost useless. It's more of a 2+2 back seat eventhough it's got 4 doors. Like CL said, girls love it. It's a chick car. I can't expect them to sell many IS-F's. Anyway, not the main point of this thread. I'll shut up now

F23A4

...not unlike the 1G IS. I'm not certain how the numbers fall these days but several years ago, the majority of Lexus buyers were women...particularly the IS, ES and RX. I suspect this probably hasnt changed much.