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Lamborghini: Development and Technology News

 
Old 03-31-2010, 01:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by princelybug View Post
However, having said that, I'm still

I'll give up 1mpg, and 0.1 second from 0-60 for a true 3-pedal manual tranny any day of the week.


Originally Posted by Shift_Acura View Post
Who cares...nobody here can afford them
*raises hand*
Of course I can't afford one (not yet anyways :devilgrin), but it's the principle. Lamborghini is by far my favorite supercar manufacturer, and to take MT away from a supercar is like taking Pam Anderson to a A cup size bra. It's just not right. MT is all about being engaged and apart of the driving experience. There's something to be said about being connected with the car like that.

It's not about destination that's important, but the journey.
With AT, it turns the experience more into driving out of 'necessity'.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Acuraluvr View Post
seriously? one of the LAST automakers i though would do this. ridiculous.

last time i checked, most cars get better gas mileage with manuals...
actually i totally would expect something like this from Lambo...its really just a Fast car for show and attention. i cant remember the last person to buy a Lamborghini because of racing heritage, the driving position inside, the smooth balanced feel of the clutch, etc [its because none of this exists with a lambo]....people buy Lamborghinis because they have too much money and want to show it...most people probably opted for E-gear or w/e it is and paddles...

sadly, this is coming true with Ferrari too....i guess true driving enthusiasts cant afford them, and these rich people who want the best can't drive them...auto it is!!!

Looks like Porsche is one of the last true and proper sports/supercars...
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CL6 View Post
Never heard 95% said they want powerful wagons.

And the G8 returns as the Caprice.
I meant 95% of the ones that say they want them would not buy one.

The Caprice isn't available to the public..
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:15 PM
  #44  
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I guess I should stop bitching about the lack of an MT in the V6 TSX.

And start bitching about the lack of a dual-clutch tranny....
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by '01White3.2CL View Post
actually i totally would expect something like this from Lambo...its really just a Fast car for show and attention. i cant remember the last person to buy a Lamborghini because of racing heritage, the driving position inside, the smooth balanced feel of the clutch, etc [its because none of this exists with a lambo]....people buy Lamborghinis because they have too much money and want to show it...most people probably opted for E-gear or w/e it is and paddles...

sadly, this is coming true with Ferrari too....i guess true driving enthusiasts cant afford them, and these rich people who want the best can't drive them...auto it is!!!

Looks like Porsche is one of the last true and proper sports/supercars...
Last I checked, Porsche was just as guilty of being bought by people who wanted to show off how much money they had.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gen7Milan View Post
I still don't understand why Ferrari and Lamborghini are getting rid of the true 3-pedal manuals.
From what I've read, the gated shifters have always been a pain to use, and the manuals on the exotic cars are not ideal.
When the DSGs, auto-manuals and push-button gearshift versions of the car became faster than the manual trans versions, there was no justification to have a manual trans for performance.
Originally Posted by '01White3.2CL View Post
actually i totally would expect something like this from Lambo...its really just a Fast car for show and attention. i cant remember the last person to buy a Lamborghini because of racing heritage, the driving position inside, the smooth balanced feel of the clutch, etc [its because none of this exists with a lambo]....

The only cars I'd consider with manual transmissions had better have good shifters and clutches, like the Miata/MX-5, TSX and RX-8.
If the manual transmission is not nice to use, I'd either get an auto trans or skip the car entirely.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:41 PM
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The sad thing about this is not that Lambo is dropping it, it's that cars in general are dropping it. Manual transmissions will inevitably be phased out. That's what sucks.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:55 PM
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I know people in America aren't all that big on manual transmissions, but when I lived in Germany it seemed like more cars had manual transmissions than automatics.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:53 PM
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This is from last year but Ferrari says this:

The head of engine development at Ferrari, Vittorio Dini, says manual transmissions have had their day, with the latest twin-clutch automatic transmission offered in the 458 Italia providing quicker acceleration and better fuel economy than a manual.

“The manual gearbox has been a tradition for us but almost nobody buys one anymore,” he says.

He says the take-up of manual transmissions on the forerunner to the 458, the F430, was just five per cent, while demand for a self-shifting box on the recently released California convertible was even less.

I don’t even think we have sold one yet. We offered it because some customers said they wanted it, but that hasn’t been the case,” he says.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/ferra...1130-jzha.html

Mercedes-Benz dropped the manuel from the SLK350 and the C350 because orders were less than 15%.

And the G8/Caprice was not a victim of being a bad car but of being part of Pontiac. The car was actually well reviewed but it had the added disadvantage of being imported from Australia. Also, the Union Goons weren't too happy GM was selling non-Union made cars (they said the same thing about the GTO).
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:04 PM
  #50  
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I love my dual clutch transmission
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:04 PM
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I honestly do not blame Ferrari/Lamborghini. It makes too much sense.
Look back at recent road tests (C&D, Automobile etc) how many F360s, F430s, and Gallardos have had "real" manuals in them? The one I can remember was a C&D test of a Gallardo and they broke the shifter. They were driving the car with channel lock pliers as the shifter.
They all now shower the love on the automated manual/DSG trans. Even Jeremy Clarkson, something tells me he could give two hot shits that they no longer have a "real" manual in these cars. They simply drive better with the automated manual.

P.S.
I love the 6-speed in my TSX.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cM3go View Post
I love my dual clutch transmission
thank you.
'cept in an M3 I'd probably get a stick
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cM3go View Post
I love my dual clutch transmission
I was actually about to ask about the DCT.
Would you say there is a noticeable difference? I read up on it for the first time a few days ago and didn't know if it was justifiable or more gimmicky.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:13 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
Last I checked, Porsche was just as guilty of being bought by people who wanted to show off how much money they had.
true, but either way Porsche is a true sports car with full manual easily available on every model. And last time I checked, most buy Porsche not only to look great but because of true Porsche Racing Heritage, Great driving position, the balanced dynamics of the car (even though the engine is way out back, thats engineering!)....i could go on and on my friend.

Whereas the difference with Lambo is that it seems to be purely a Fast car for show. Lambo has few to no F1 victories or anything else to back up why they should go auto-manual except that rich people, who cant drive, want a Lambo.

Ferrari's on the other hand actually feel more natural with auto-manual transmissions because of their victories in F1 (no manuals there) and because they were the first car EVER to have auto-manual sequential or paddle shifting in the F355 of the 90s.

any other comments ricky??
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:52 PM
  #55  
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This is really sad, and it tugs at my heartstrings as an enthusiast, but there are a few hard truths to acknowledge.

The lion's share of classic and not so classic Ferraris have gearchange characteristics that can only lovingly be described as dogshit. If you've ever driven an older 308 or Mondial you'll know what I'm talking about; getting that lever to squeak-clack through the metal gate is a labor of love. It is the same kind of love only a mother can have for a really ugly baby. Some of the front engined Ferraris are less recalcitrant, but not by that much. Savvy specialist mechanics do have some tricks to slick up these linkages, but they're playing catch-up to compromised designs.

Lambos aren't/weren't any better, also suffering from ponderous gate-itis PLUS a dogleg 1-2 shift. One guy went as far as to completely re-engineer the shift linkage in his Muira back in the day.

Now let's be fair, Porsche themselves weren't known for their shift action until the 924 and 928 came along, and the 911 only really got a modern shift action with the 964 series.....although the G50 Carreras were a big improvement. For some fun, go out and find a pre-G50 transmission 911 (1986 and earlier) with high miles and take it for a spin. If the shifter bushings are shot, the gearchange will feel like stirring a bucket of oatmeal and fish heads with a broken fishing rod. I drove a 1977 3.0 Euro Carrera like that years ago, and I could move the shift lever side to side a full 3 inches....while it was IN GEAR.

All Porsches have great manual gearchanges now, I don't see them killing the manual anytime soon. The PDK will take a bite out of the manual's numbers for sure, but Porsche will keep on with the manual for some time.

My own personal opinion? Nothing beats the pure satisfaction of a perfectly executed rev-matching shift, nor the feeling of accomplishment of getting every gear right on a backroad slice and dice. Same goes for the racetrack. It's a measure of personal driver skill and accomplishment, pure and simple.

-Mirror

Last edited by TheMirror; 03-31-2010 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:21 PM
  #56  
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on every post about how this was no surprise

and on taking a 3-pedal manual anyday over a DCT. No transmission can match the satisfaction of working a shifter, rev-matching, etc. A manual transmission is like A/C or the heater to me... I can live without it but it's one of the last things I'd want to go without in a car.

I have always LOVED driving, even when I just started with a SLOW ass automatic Civic. Now my preferences and experiences have been greatly expanded but driving stick will still be one of, if not the most favorite part of driving for me
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:35 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by '01White3.2CL View Post
[true, but either way Porsche is a true sports car with full manual easily available on every model. And last time I checked, most buy Porsche not only to look great but because of true Porsche Racing Heritage, Great driving position, the balanced dynamics of the car (even though the engine is way out back, thats engineering!)....i could go on and on my friend.

any other comments ricky??
Pretty biased. You could say pretty much the exact same thing about BMW or MBZ.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:35 PM
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im loyal to performance... so whatever...
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Acuraluvr View Post
well at least for commuter cars, very recently. most under 30k cars still advertise a 1mpg better rating with a manual tranny than auto. :
Not really...
Here's 2 examples. There's some more but I don't feel the need to post them. Not all Autos get better MPG than Manuals though.

http://www.vw.com/gti/completespecs/en/us/
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by '01White3.2CL View Post
true, but either way Porsche is a true sports car with full manual easily available on every model. And last time I checked, most buy Porsche not only to look great but because of true Porsche Racing Heritage, Great driving position, the balanced dynamics of the car (even though the engine is way out back, thats engineering!)....i could go on and on my friend.
$200 says 80% of Porsche owners don't know shit about Porsche's racing heritage. Stop preaching your biased views; Porsche is every bit as guilty of people buying them for looks as much as Ferrari & Lamborghini.

Just because Porsche still offers a manual, doesn't mean the consumers are ordering them that way, either.

And btw, manual is not available in all Porsche's. The Cayenne does not have it, nor do the Panamera's.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
And btw, manual is not available in all Porsche's. The Cayenne does not have it,
Hmmm.....I don't have the heart to brand this as a true Fail, so instead let's make this a teachable moment about the available transmissions for the Cayenne GTS.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...s/?gtabindex=2

Additionally the Panamera is available with a 6-speed ZF manual in Europe, probably not pertinent to this discussion here.

Last edited by TheMirror; 04-01-2010 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
$200 says 80% of Porsche owners don't know shit about Porsche's racing heritage. Stop preaching your biased views; Porsche is every bit as guilty of people buying them for looks as much as Ferrari & Lamborghini.

Just because Porsche still offers a manual, doesn't mean the consumers are ordering them that way, either.

And btw, manual is not available in all Porsche's. The Cayenne does not have it, nor do the Panamera's.
we are talking sports cars here, not SUV and sports-sedan.

but enough of my preaching, I am sure you are right overall Rick_TL-S. Plenty of rich guys would indeed buy a tiptronic Porsche for the looks etc...I guess I am looking at driving enthusiasts compared to the average rich man who doesn't know about cars. I am indeed biased. And my point is that Porsche (and also BMW for that matter) are some of the last true driver's cars and this will probably be more and more true as time goes on.

So in the end, people can buy w/e they want, and I would only buy a true driver's car if the time ever comes for me.

to stay on topic though, again, I am not surprised at Lambo for my said reasons.

Last edited by '01White3.2CL; 04-01-2010 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TheMirror View Post
Hmmm.....I don't have the heart to brand this as a true Fail, so instead let's make this a teachable moment about the available transmissions for the Cayenne GTS.
Well, perhaps I should remind myself that the base 6-cylinder Cayenne is available with a 6-speed manual too. I'll go ahead give myself a self- right now.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
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This is news...so, into Automotive News it goes!
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:03 PM
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We Lambo pics
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cmschmie View Post
thank you.
'cept in an M3 I'd probably get a stick
If Honda/Acura made the gearbox, I'd be right there with you, BMW's sucks in 6MT.


Originally Posted by TS_eXpeed View Post
I was actually about to ask about the DCT.
Would you say there is a noticeable difference? I read up on it for the first time a few days ago and didn't know if it was justifiable or more gimmicky.
There's a huge difference, and the DCT is WAY better than that SMG crap they have on the E46. The car shifts so fast and is very responsive to the clicks of the knob or paddle shifters, so much fun, worth the extra money for DCT.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:38 PM
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eh its a bit sad
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:08 AM
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Lambo must have looked at the TSX Wagon and said "whew, I guess we don't need to keep making a stick"
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Old 04-02-2010, 02:02 AM
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Some Auto manufacturers have produced Transmissions that really outperform Manuals. In those instances an Auto is definitely prefered.

However there are a few that cannot, namely Honda. Look at the curb weight differences between a manual tranmission Honda versus an Automatic, it sometimes reaches a weight in excess of 100lbs. That's a significant difference, and it hinders performance and gas mileage.

Generally an A/T weighs more than a M/T, but some campanies have gotten that weight difference to be very marginal (10lbs) i.e. BMW335i A/T versus M/T.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:02 AM
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If you guys noticed, the 458 Italia will not be offered with a manual option either.

Say RIP to three pedals in exotics
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:27 PM
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Lamborghini is a high performance automobile. The manual transmission DECREASES the performance. The E-Gear option INCREASES the performance.

The goal of a High Performance car manufacturer is to give you the highest amount of performance available. At this point, this does not include manual transmissions.

I 100% agree that banging the shifter and working the clutch is very pleasing in a tactile way and offers level of self satisfaction, however, we are talking performance here and the numbers don't lie.
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
Lamborghini is a high performance automobile. The manual transmission DECREASES the performance. The E-Gear option INCREASES the performance.

The goal of a High Performance car manufacturer is to give you the highest amount of performance available. At this point, this does not include manual transmissions.

I 100% agree that banging the shifter and working the clutch is very pleasing in a tactile way and offers level of self satisfaction, however, we are talking performance here and the numbers don't lie.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:24 PM
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When's the JATO option then?


Originally Posted by black label View Post
Lamborghini is a high performance automobile. The manual transmission DECREASES the performance. The E-Gear option INCREASES the performance.

The goal of a High Performance car manufacturer is to give you the highest amount of performance available. At this point, this does not include manual transmissions.

I 100% agree that banging the shifter and working the clutch is very pleasing in a tactile way and offers level of self satisfaction, however, we are talking performance here and the numbers don't lie.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:10 PM
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You mean Jota?
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:52 PM
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No man JATO... Jet Assisted Take Off. Greatest urban legend ever:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/dream/jato.asp

Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
You mean Jota?
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cM3go View Post
I love my dual clutch transmission
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:01 PM
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Personally, if its quicker, then i would get the auto/semi auto/dual clutch whatever. People keep saying manuals are fun fun fun... whats more fun then beating the other car? If the rabbit was offered in a dual clutch, i would of gotten that over the 5spd mt...
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
Lamborghini is a high performance automobile. The manual transmission DECREASES the performance. The E-Gear option INCREASES the performance.

The goal of a High Performance car manufacturer is to give you the highest amount of performance available. At this point, this does not include manual transmissions.

I 100% agree that banging the shifter and working the clutch is very pleasing in a tactile way and offers level of self satisfaction, however, we are talking performance here and the numbers don't lie.
exactly!
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:49 PM
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At least Aston Martin still offers a true 6mt
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:47 PM
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A car teased for Geneva...



It's speculated that it is likely the Aventador Super Veloce...if yes, I'll move it into that thread when confirmed.
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