Infiniti: M-Series news **Hybrid Revealed (page 34)**
05-26-2010, 11:14 PM
#1241
In the Mid-South meow
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So today on the way home from work I saw what appeared to be the Nissan equivilent of the new M47 with Michigan manufacture plates. I had a four letter name, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. It was something like Geru or Gura. Anyone have any clue?
05-27-2010, 12:24 AM
#1242
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So today on the way home from work I saw what appeared to be the Nissan equivilent of the new M47 with Michigan manufacture plates. I had a four letter name, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. It was something like Geru or Gura. Anyone have any clue?
Well if it was the 2003-2004 style that would be the Nissan Gloria. If it was the 2005 or anything newer (the current body that's on its way out) that would be the Nissan Fuga.
05-27-2010, 11:13 AM
#1243
Burning Brakes
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So today on the way home from work I saw what appeared to be the Nissan equivilent of the new M47 with Michigan manufacture plates. I had a four letter name, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. It was something like Geru or Gura. Anyone have any clue?
05-27-2010, 01:18 PM
#1244
The sizzle in the Steak
So today on the way home from work I saw what appeared to be the Nissan equivilent of the new M47 with Michigan manufacture plates. I had a four letter name, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. It was something like Geru or Gura. Anyone have any clue?
It has a special "Guru" badge on the back.
05-27-2010, 01:19 PM
#1245
In the Mid-South meow
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That's it, Fuga!
05-27-2010, 01:21 PM
#1246
In the Mid-South meow
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... and I meant M56. I have no idea why I put M47 lol.
05-27-2010, 01:25 PM
#1247
The sizzle in the Steak
...so you didn't see the Guru's car.....bummer.
07-30-2010, 11:05 PM
#1248
2011 Infiniti M35 Hybrid - Preview Drives
Autocar
Infiniti M35h - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk
CAR Magazine
Infiniti M35 Hybrid (2011) CAR review | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online
Autocar
Infiniti M35h - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk
CAR Magazine
Infiniti M35 Hybrid (2011) CAR review | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online
07-30-2010, 11:07 PM
#1249
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That will be Infiniti's first hybrid correct? I'm glad they didn't change the outside to make it scream "hybrid" like Honda did with the Civic (minus the hybrid sticker on the side of the M).
I drove a M56S a few weeks back and I didn't want to get out of it. Beautiful car.
I drove a M56S a few weeks back and I didn't want to get out of it. Beautiful car.
07-30-2010, 11:16 PM
#1251
Moderator
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07-31-2010, 06:46 AM
#1252
Race Director
07-31-2010, 07:25 AM
#1253
Go Big Blue!
...or you're more practical and realize you don't need excessive horsepower for your family sedan. I wish the Japanese would follow BMW more and start investing in better turbo technology rather than big heavy v8s like Americans. It hurts the handling and is just an easy way to give the driver more torque (which is really what a spirited driver wants.
07-31-2010, 09:43 AM
#1254
Honestly, if the M Hybrid gets over 35 MPG and and is quicker than the M37 (which is already a fast car), I wouldn't get the V8. I would just slap on the M's 20's and maybe change the front to the sport bumper and call it a day.
This is probably going to have around 360 HP and 400+ LB.FT of torque. The only thing that really sucks is the trunk space.
07-31-2010, 11:22 AM
#1255
Punk Rocker
Well, the people in Europe have no choice, they can't get the V8 (for now).
Honestly, if the M Hybrid gets over 35 MPG and and is quicker than the M37 (which is already a fast car), I wouldn't get the V8. I would just slap on the M's 20's and maybe change the front to the sport bumper and call it a day.
This is probably going to have around 360 HP and 400+ LB.FT of torque. The only thing that really sucks is the trunk space.
Honestly, if the M Hybrid gets over 35 MPG and and is quicker than the M37 (which is already a fast car), I wouldn't get the V8. I would just slap on the M's 20's and maybe change the front to the sport bumper and call it a day.
This is probably going to have around 360 HP and 400+ LB.FT of torque. The only thing that really sucks is the trunk space.
07-31-2010, 12:02 PM
#1256
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...or you're more practical and realize you don't need excessive horsepower for your family sedan. I wish the Japanese would follow BMW more and start investing in better turbo technology rather than big heavy v8s like Americans. It hurts the handling and is just an easy way to give the driver more torque (which is really what a spirited driver wants.
So I bet the difference isn't as much, and NA V8s still have lots of advantages compared to an NA V8.
07-31-2010, 12:05 PM
#1257
Burning Brakes
07-31-2010, 12:11 PM
#1259
Go Big Blue!
Yea I think he mistyped, but I thought he meant "NA V8s still have lots of advantages compared to an FI V6" but I may have misunderood him.
At any rate, it all depiends on what you want. For most buyers of a japanese 4 door sedan, I think they just want a car that can be used as a family sedan but still can get out of trouble when it needs to or merge into traffic. For that, I like BMW's formula better. I don't need all thatraw hp for top end speed. When is the average M buyer going to want to go 160 mph? I understand a lot of this stuff is for the "boy racer" still in us guys even after we get past 40 (which is probably the bulk of M buyers), but I don't think it will help sell cars as much as they hope.
At any rate, it all depiends on what you want. For most buyers of a japanese 4 door sedan, I think they just want a car that can be used as a family sedan but still can get out of trouble when it needs to or merge into traffic. For that, I like BMW's formula better. I don't need all thatraw hp for top end speed. When is the average M buyer going to want to go 160 mph? I understand a lot of this stuff is for the "boy racer" still in us guys even after we get past 40 (which is probably the bulk of M buyers), but I don't think it will help sell cars as much as they hope.
07-31-2010, 12:33 PM
#1261
Go Big Blue!
M37 Weight = 3858, Distribution = 54/46, HP = 330
M56 Weight = 4028, Distrubution = 56/44, HP = 420
90 extra hp is nice if you plan to drag race someone in your $65k 4 door sedan. But for the rest of the time, your driving around with a dead deer straped to the hood of your car. I'd rather have the more limber and better balanced M37 for hauling around my family and commuting to work. I suspect that's how most people would see it so that's why they won't probably sell many.
Better yet, I'd rather have a sophisticated twin turbo I6 like the 535 offers giving you almost a 50/50 distribution and over 300 torques
Last edited by SpicyMikey; 07-31-2010 at 12:44 PM.
07-31-2010, 01:12 PM
#1262
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OK. Well that's not a fair comparison I suppose. I was making the point that I think most would rather have a car that's quick off the line without the extra weight, beefed up suspension, and ultimately much higher cost of a large block v8. Great in a straight line but not as good on the curves. A quick look at the Infiniti site shows the following:
M37 Weight = 3858, Distribution = 54/46, HP = 330
M56 Weight = 4028, Distrubution = 56/44, HP = 420
90 extra hp is nice if you plan to drag race someone in your $65k 4 door sedan. But for the rest of the time, your driving around with a dead deer straped to the hood of your car. I'd rather have the more limber and better balanced M37 for hauling around my family and commuting to work. I suspect that's how most people would see it so that's why they won't probably sell many.
Better yet, I'd rather have a sophisticated twin turbo I6 like the 535 offers giving you almost a 50/50 distribution and over 300 torques
M37 Weight = 3858, Distribution = 54/46, HP = 330
M56 Weight = 4028, Distrubution = 56/44, HP = 420
90 extra hp is nice if you plan to drag race someone in your $65k 4 door sedan. But for the rest of the time, your driving around with a dead deer straped to the hood of your car. I'd rather have the more limber and better balanced M37 for hauling around my family and commuting to work. I suspect that's how most people would see it so that's why they won't probably sell many.
Better yet, I'd rather have a sophisticated twin turbo I6 like the 535 offers giving you almost a 50/50 distribution and over 300 torques
And therefore that would also negate the weight balance difference as well.
07-31-2010, 01:32 PM
#1264
Go Big Blue!
I don't want to drift off track on my original point. That is easy to do. I was just originally countering the overly simplistic comment from someone else saying that "If you buy an M and get anything other than the V8 you are too old or too poor! "
Are you defending and agreeing with that statement? Based on other things I've read from you, I'd guess not.
07-31-2010, 01:57 PM
#1265
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Of course it's in the engineering. That's what I'm sort of saying. I'd rather have a well engineered 6 with a sweet turbo package like BMW offers rather than a grunting heavy v8 just so I can mumble "me go fast" as I lay a patch pulling away from the red light. Also, don't compare a 528 to a 535 to get a true sense of weight cost for a turbo. 535 has dual exhaust, more standard features, bigger wheels, wider tires, and probably some other things I'm not considering.
I don't want to drift off track on my original point. That is easy to do. I was just originally countering the overly simplistic comment from someone else saying that "If you buy an M and get anything other than the V8 you are too old or too poor! "
Are you defending and agreeing with that statement? Based on other things I've read from you, I'd guess not.
I don't want to drift off track on my original point. That is easy to do. I was just originally countering the overly simplistic comment from someone else saying that "If you buy an M and get anything other than the V8 you are too old or too poor! "
Are you defending and agreeing with that statement? Based on other things I've read from you, I'd guess not.
Forced induction, especially turbos, aren't great for weight saving. The results are minimal.
07-31-2010, 02:12 PM
#1266
Go Big Blue!
Again, back to my original point. There's more to a car than counting the cylinders and top end hp. It's idiotic for someone to say that someone is basically too old or poor to not want a v8.
07-31-2010, 02:20 PM
#1267
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No we can't say that. The 535 is more of a step up in every way from the 528. That's how BMW does things. The M56 is just an M37 with a bigger engine. Everything else is the same except maybe that Nav is standard in the 56
Again, back to my original point. There's more to a car than counting the cylinders and top end hp. It's idiotic for someone to say that someone is basically too old or poor to not want a v8.
Again, back to my original point. There's more to a car than counting the cylinders and top end hp. It's idiotic for someone to say that someone is basically too old or poor to not want a v8.
I'm simply discussing downsizing and FI compared to taking a regularly large V8 to make the power, and the only way to lost some real weight is to drop cylinders and signficant weight. The I6TT has a weight advantage of less than 100 lbs over the V8 in the M56 as far as I can judge, so going to a small V8TT like the 550i would likely have about zero advantage.
07-31-2010, 02:54 PM
#1269
Burning Brakes
I think the shift from large-displacement V8s to smaller, FI V8s and V6s addresses two things:
1. CAFE requirements. A smaller V8 or V6 will return good fuel economy when not boosting. There is little difference between the smaller FI and larger displacement NA when under boost. However, this means they can offer similar performance and return better fuel economy for CAFE testing.
2. Torque. Turbos generally offer a much broader torque curve that is useful at low RPMs and well into the mid-range. With V8s and V6s the torque curve should remain fairly flat even near redline. I4s would tend to see a significant drop in power unless outfitted with a larger turbo, which increases turbo lag and reduces low-end torque.
1. CAFE requirements. A smaller V8 or V6 will return good fuel economy when not boosting. There is little difference between the smaller FI and larger displacement NA when under boost. However, this means they can offer similar performance and return better fuel economy for CAFE testing.
2. Torque. Turbos generally offer a much broader torque curve that is useful at low RPMs and well into the mid-range. With V8s and V6s the torque curve should remain fairly flat even near redline. I4s would tend to see a significant drop in power unless outfitted with a larger turbo, which increases turbo lag and reduces low-end torque.
07-31-2010, 03:04 PM
#1270
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I think the shift from large-displacement V8s to smaller, FI V8s and V6s addresses two things:
1. CAFE requirements. A smaller V8 or V6 will return good fuel economy when not boosting. There is little difference between the smaller FI and larger displacement NA when under boost. However, this means they can offer similar performance and return better fuel economy for CAFE testing.
2. Torque. Turbos generally offer a much broader torque curve that is useful at low RPMs and well into the mid-range. With V8s and V6s the torque curve should remain fairly flat even near redline. I4s would tend to see a significant drop in power unless outfitted with a larger turbo, which increases turbo lag and reduces low-end torque.
1. CAFE requirements. A smaller V8 or V6 will return good fuel economy when not boosting. There is little difference between the smaller FI and larger displacement NA when under boost. However, this means they can offer similar performance and return better fuel economy for CAFE testing.
2. Torque. Turbos generally offer a much broader torque curve that is useful at low RPMs and well into the mid-range. With V8s and V6s the torque curve should remain fairly flat even near redline. I4s would tend to see a significant drop in power unless outfitted with a larger turbo, which increases turbo lag and reduces low-end torque.
07-31-2010, 03:11 PM
#1271
Go Big Blue!
Regarding the Jaguar XF. I can't speak to that. I have no idea about that model and it's variants. I'm fairly familiar with the Infiniti 37 versus 56. I'm also familiar with the 28/35. I'd much rather have the 535 with it's i6 turbos than the m56 with its V8. It has nothing to do with being poorer as they are both the same price similary equipmented ($60k). Admitedly it might have something to do with being older though
07-31-2010, 03:32 PM
#1272
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I honestly don't know how much a turbo kit weighs but it's just a pump, a cooler, some hoses, and clamps. Anyone ever buy/install a turbo kit to weigh in on MyCarIsntInMyWifesName's argument that theres really no weight advantage over a turbo versus a v8 to get more low end torque? I've seen turbo kits and I'm guessing they add much less than 100 lbs to the car.
Regarding the Jaguar XF. I can't speak to that. I have no idea about that model and it's variants. I'm fairly familiar with the Infiniti 37 versus 56. I'm also familiar with the 28/35. I'd much rather have the 535 with it's i6 turbos than the m56 with its V8. It has nothing to do with being poorer as they are both the same price similary equipmented ($60k). Admitedly it might have something to do with being older though
Regarding the Jaguar XF. I can't speak to that. I have no idea about that model and it's variants. I'm fairly familiar with the Infiniti 37 versus 56. I'm also familiar with the 28/35. I'd much rather have the 535 with it's i6 turbos than the m56 with its V8. It has nothing to do with being poorer as they are both the same price similary equipmented ($60k). Admitedly it might have something to do with being older though
Another example. The new Ford 5.0 Coyote weighs 430 lbs, which is the same as the I6TT BMW engine, N54 I think.
The Ford has 2/3 more displacement and two more cylinders yet weighs similarly (or THE same, actually). And of course, there's the Ford's 412 horsepower on regular fuel, and so few FI engines run on anything other than premium. Of course the BMW engine isn't one of them.
I don't know why the 37 buyer being poor thing keeps coming up in your responses to me. I did not say that and nor do I agree with it.
07-31-2010, 04:06 PM
#1273
Go Big Blue!
It's probably about 100 lbs. After all, the BMW I6TT weighs about 100 lbs more than the 3.0L I6 it replaced, and they have the same aluminum block and basic material contents. Furthermore, I said biturbos, not just a single turbocharger package as well as superchargers. They all add weight and it doesn't do much compared compared to simply having a larger engine.
Another example. The new Ford 5.0 Coyote weighs 430 lbs, which is the same as the I6TT BMW engine, N54 I think.
The Ford has 2/3 more displacement and two more cylinders yet weighs similarly (or THE same, actually). And of course, there's the Ford's 412 horsepower on regular fuel, and so few FI engines run on anything other than premium. Of course the BMW engine isn't one of them.
I don't know why the 37 buyer being poor thing keeps coming up in your responses to me. I did not say that and nor do I agree with it.
Another example. The new Ford 5.0 Coyote weighs 430 lbs, which is the same as the I6TT BMW engine, N54 I think.
The Ford has 2/3 more displacement and two more cylinders yet weighs similarly (or THE same, actually). And of course, there's the Ford's 412 horsepower on regular fuel, and so few FI engines run on anything other than premium. Of course the BMW engine isn't one of them.
I don't know why the 37 buyer being poor thing keeps coming up in your responses to me. I did not say that and nor do I agree with it.
I don't mean this to sound like a BMW commercial. I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand. I read a lot of posts on here and sometimes when I read ridiculous comments I have to respond. I know it wasn't you that said it. But you're the one who clamped on my leg like a pit bull wanting to debate the somehwhat undebatable about how much better (or not) a turbo may be versus a v8 for performance gains/weight penalties. lets not hijack this thread. All I can say as a last comment is that if there wasn't a benefit to turbos then no one would probably use it on performance cars and we'd all just stick more cylinders on the engine. It's not cheaper to build or maintain a turbo'd engine, but theres a net gain there in fun. The fuel efficiency gain is minimal. I don't think that's the reason BMW or Porsche, etc. use them.
Last edited by SpicyMikey; 07-31-2010 at 04:09 PM.
07-31-2010, 06:00 PM
#1274
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100 lbs seems fair. Maybe a little less after just googling BMW turbo kits and seeing some for older models that had shipping weights of 87lbs. The new 5'er eliminated the twin turbo and went back to a single turbo pump that gives you better results somehow. Plus engineering improvements over the years keep increasing performance of these turbo systems and reducing weight. BMW really has it nailed better than anyone else right now.
I don't mean this to sound like a BMW commercial. I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand. I read a lot of posts on here and sometimes when I read ridiculous comments I have to respond. I know it wasn't you that said it. But you're the one who clamped on my leg like a pit bull wanting to debate the somehwhat undebatable about how much better (or not) a turbo may be versus a v8 for performance gains/weight penalties. lets not hijack this thread. All I can say as a last comment is that if there wasn't a benefit to turbos then no one would probably use it on performance cars and we'd all just stick more cylinders on the engine. It's not cheaper to build or maintain a turbo'd engine, but theres a net gain there in fun. The fuel efficiency gain is minimal. I don't think that's the reason BMW or Porsche, etc. use them.
I don't mean this to sound like a BMW commercial. I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand. I read a lot of posts on here and sometimes when I read ridiculous comments I have to respond. I know it wasn't you that said it. But you're the one who clamped on my leg like a pit bull wanting to debate the somehwhat undebatable about how much better (or not) a turbo may be versus a v8 for performance gains/weight penalties. lets not hijack this thread. All I can say as a last comment is that if there wasn't a benefit to turbos then no one would probably use it on performance cars and we'd all just stick more cylinders on the engine. It's not cheaper to build or maintain a turbo'd engine, but theres a net gain there in fun. The fuel efficiency gain is minimal. I don't think that's the reason BMW or Porsche, etc. use them.
That's it. Neither really is better, but maybe something more quantitative will be made for us over the span of this decade.
07-31-2010, 10:44 PM
#1276
Forced induction is overated. Just give 6speed auto to TL-Sh-AWD. its performance & fuel economy will be similar to 535 RWD. and that without upgrading engine with DI. BMW engines are DI. which give it plenty of low end torque. DI engine add 10% to torque/power with about 5 to 10% fuel economy gains.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hon...er-priorities/
Honda CEO Takanobu Ito. In an interview with Europe’s leading car magazine (print edition), Ito gave DI a pass with his answer to the question: “Honda was once the leader with its internal combustion engines. Did your competitors overtake you with gasoline Direct Injection?” In classic corporate speak, rather than directly acknowledge DI or his competitors, Ito had this to say:
We have limited resources, and we are concentrating on Hybrids. We want to build the optimal engines for hybrids. And if we’re going to talk about hybrids, we have to talk about the costs for the consumer. Hybrids are very expensive. The fact that our hybrids (Insight) are selling so well in Japan is because of government incentives.
3.7L DI engine will produce about 350 bhp. with better long term reliability than 3.0L Force induction and similar or better fuel economy.
look at 6speed 303 bhp GS350 performance matches V8 Genesis. it got 23mpg on Edmunds test. I have yet to see 2.0TFSI or 3.0 I6 forced induction getting 23mpg on edmunds test.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/ge...us-gs-350.html
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hon...er-priorities/
Honda CEO Takanobu Ito. In an interview with Europe’s leading car magazine (print edition), Ito gave DI a pass with his answer to the question: “Honda was once the leader with its internal combustion engines. Did your competitors overtake you with gasoline Direct Injection?” In classic corporate speak, rather than directly acknowledge DI or his competitors, Ito had this to say:
We have limited resources, and we are concentrating on Hybrids. We want to build the optimal engines for hybrids. And if we’re going to talk about hybrids, we have to talk about the costs for the consumer. Hybrids are very expensive. The fact that our hybrids (Insight) are selling so well in Japan is because of government incentives.
look at 6speed 303 bhp GS350 performance matches V8 Genesis. it got 23mpg on Edmunds test. I have yet to see 2.0TFSI or 3.0 I6 forced induction getting 23mpg on edmunds test.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/ge...us-gs-350.html
08-01-2010, 08:26 AM
#1277
Team Owner
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I guess I'm both. I would take the V6. In fact when my I35 finally craps out and I am able to get a used M, it will be an M35 not the M45. I can't afford the new M or the gas for a V8(too poor) and don't really need the extra power (too old).
08-01-2010, 07:14 PM
#1278
Midnight Marauder
I'm curious about the new M hybrid and how it stacks up against the V8. Eventhough I have an older M45, I still enjoy the grunt of engine with the good amount of torque it has. I must say, the new interior looks way way way nicer than the one in mine.
08-03-2010, 02:51 PM
#1279
The intriguing thing to me is that it can get up to 50 MPH on pure electric for up to 1.25 miles. Theoretically, that means I could go to the grocery store and back on pure electric power if the batteries were fully charged. Kind of neat IMO.