iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yeea, $60k isn't a bad deal, but it's still a bit too much. I know that the 420hp Lexus IS-F is being sold at around that price range, but from what I can see, it doesn't sell too well. It has way less more, but then it gotta more prestigious logo.

There are also the C63 AMG and BMW M3. The current C63 AMG offers 451hp at $59k. I believe for a few grand more, MB will add another 30hp or so to your car with factory warranty. This generation of C class is approaching the end of its life cycle, who knows what the next generation will be like. It might get the same engine as the IPL G since these two companies are working together (according to the article). For about the same price, I'd probably go for a MB. Beside the C63 AMG, there's also the new M3. It's rumoured to have 450hp, but there's no official info on that yet.

My point is, the G has always been about offering good value in the entry-level sporty luxury car market. It has a lot of standard features, RWD, more power than the competition, while being significantly cheaper - kind of like a poor man's BMW 3 series. It looks like the IPL G will continue that trend - a lot of features and more power than M3, except it will cost around the same at $60k+. That's why I think the pricing is a bit high. Besides, it sounds like the pricing might be even higher than that.

Then again, we don't know how reliable that source is. Like you said before, the car isn't even out yet. Heck, there isn't even any official confirmation from Nissan (unlike Honda with the RLX, NSX, etc), so at this stage, I'm not sure if it's exactly ahead of Acura or not.

Exactly, the current design is getting old for quite some time. Waiting till 2015 is just too long for a car that is not exactly extremely successful.

Type34

When designing the new-G interior, I hope they pissed on the old blueprints and lit them on fire.

smarty666

That might be the only good and logical reasoning over the next 18 months to get a G37! It's not as refined as BMW, but it sure is a rocket and super fun to drive.

smarty666

Well, I would not go as far as to say the G is not a successful car, it sure sold pretty well 2-3 years ago, but it has aged not so well, especially with the new 3 Series out, and the refreshened A4.

I was just at the NY Autoshow yesterday and I have to say, of all the automakers, my Dad and I agreed, that Infiniti was the biggest disappointment and it was hard to see b/c I have an Infiniti as like the company. They were the only ones that really had nothing going on that could excite you. All the products currently out are either at the end or near the end of their product cycle. The gas mileage is terrible on all their vehicles, plus the premium requirement. The Ethera Concept all electric vehicle, looked promising, but then they said not for another 2 years to production and I was like WTF???

Hapa DC5

LoL I don't mind my interior. But you can tell it is definitely a design from the last decade...

smarty666

It's not that the interior is really bad, it just is looking dated. 2-3 years ago it was pretty nice but it is the oldest in the lineup and needs a redo. I have to say though, the wheat interior with the extra real rosewood trim is still pretty snazzy looking if you ask me .

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol...you misunderstood what I wrote...I said the G was not an EXTREMELY successful car....meaning it's still a successful car, but it's time for an update!

I think the JX is new, isn't it? Then again, even if it's new, it's a bit disappointment to me...its powertrain isn't attractive at all..especially for an Infiniti.

smarty666

Yes, that was new, but with $4.50 a gallon gasoline, a 7 seat premium fuel required gas hog (rated 17/23mpg I think) is not smart marketing on Infiniti's part. How many people are really going to be interested in this that it will increase their sales. They should be working on returning their current, aging lineup, and bringing out hybrid more fuel efficient base and mid level models.

F23A4

Said vehicle type for Acura has done fairly well in the form of the MDX (15/20 mpg), as it (and the TSX) kept the brand above water for several years in the face of the ridiculous styling of the TL and RL (not to mention a suspect powertrain in the RDX).

So, Infiniti's move to introduce a competitor in this segment is a no brainer. The execution could have been better, particularly in the area of the powertrain. (see: iforyou's post earlier)

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I can understand the motive behind the introduction of the JX35. It's probably not a a big investment for Infiniti as it's probably based on the Pathfinder. Given the success of MDX, Infiniti just wants a piece of the pie as well. As I said earlier though, I don't think the JX will come close to dethroning the MDX in this segment as the powertrain is barely up to standard in this segment. In fact, given Infiniti's reputation in performance, I am surprised the JX didn't get the FX35 powertrain at the very least.

smarty666

I just don't see why now was the best time to introduce a competitor. High gas prices are not going to help this thing at all and how many families really have more than 5 people in it that they care going to jump at a 7 seat SUV. The gas mileage is not really any better than the MDX, plus the MDX has been out for a while and a reputation, the JX doesn't. Just doesn't seem like the right time economically to be focused on that as a priority.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I guess it's kinda similar to the ZDX introduction...

1.) JX probably got approved a few years ago (like the ZDX)
2.) A few years ago, gas prices have stabilized (I think it even went down a bit slightly). The MDX, despite overall higher fuel price, was still selling very well (again, same for ZDX)
3.) JX is just a derivative of a certain Nissan model - little development cost needed. Can also take advantage of economies of scales. (ZDX is just a derivative of MDX)
4.) Expand vehicle portfolio of Infiniti (same thing for ZDX & Acura)

I don't know, but perhaps it was too late to cancel the JX project when they realized the problems? (again like the ZDX)

Hapa DC5

The JX will still do far better than the ZDX.

The ZDX is much more of a niche model.

Moog-Type-S

Most anything has/will do better than the ZDX.

The JX is goofy looking, and has a poor powertrain, but it will still do better than the ZDX.

Moog-Type-S

TSX69

Redesigned 2014 Infiniti G37 Confirmed for Spring 2013 Launch

Just the Facts:

A redesigned Infiniti G37 will arrive in the spring of 2013.
It will likely use engines built in partnership with Mercedes.
Both turbocharged and hybrid drivetrains are possible.

SANTA MONICA, California — A high-level Nissan executive confirmed to Inside Line that the next-generation G37 will arrive in the spring of 2013. During discussions of various Infiniti products, Andy Palmer, executive vice president of Nissan and Infiniti's Global Business Unit, said "the new G will arrive a year from now."

Palmer did not provide any further details on the specific redesign, but he did note that Nissan's new engine building partnership with Mercedes-Benz was quickly getting up to speed. The initial plan is to build 4-cylinder engines for the Mercedes-Benz C-Class, but don't be surprised to see that same engine reconfigured for use in a base model G in place of the current small-displacement V6.

Although Palmer made no mention of it, the next-generation G37 may also get a hybrid drivetrain. Infiniti already offers a hybrid setup in its midsize M35h, so the next G could easily adopt the same V6/electric motor system with high-performance results.

When asked about whether Nissan is looking into turbocharging its V6 engines, Palmer noted that "everybody is looking to deliver V8 power with V6 efficiency, so turbocharging often makes sense."

Inside Line says: Given that nearly all of the G's direct competitors have received recent redesigns, the next-generation G can't come soon enough for Infiniti.

biker

Anyone who's read the automotive news could have already deduced ^ this.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

Take a hint Honda. I'm still bitter about Honda replacing the Turbo 4 from the RDX

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The Turbo-I4 from the RDX has very lousy fuel consumption numbers. It has no place in today's Honda/Acura lineups which constantly boast ever-better fuel economy, unless Honda will eventually come out with 7 or 8 speeds transmissions.

On the other hand, other top auto makers are having great success with their Turbo-I4 engines when paired with 7-speed and even 8-speed auto trannies.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The turbo 4 in the RDX does not have good EPA ratings and it also doesn't get good real world mpg. The V6 with new VCM and 6AT is much more efficient. The previous turbo 4 does not have DI (which is pretty much necessary in a turbocharged engine to increase CR and thus efficiency). I also think the engine has to run rich to avoid problems (I believe DI can minimize that problem as well). Your next question would probably be, how come the turbo 4 doesn't have DI then? I think Honda at that time, did not have the technology to eliminate the carbon deposit issue that is commonly found in many modern DI engines. This issue has been discussed before so if you are interested you might want to do a search.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

My point was not to discuss the turbo 4 from the old RDX. It was that Honda should not give up on turbo technology.

Anyways, back to Infiniti G talk.

Hapa DC5

Honda can achieve ANYTHING using FWD V6 preferably with a 5speed auto.

cynep

As someone who had the first gen G35 coupe on order (sexy, but cramped) and ended up getting FX-35 and regretting selling it ever since... I can say that I haven't seen a single Infiniti product since the first gen vintage that would lure me back into the showroom to trade in my DD TL TypeS.

Now, if they were to actually offer a 4 door version of GT-R (rumored to be Infiniti), I'd pitch a tent literally and figuratively the day it was announced




...as long as it doesn't carry over the current Infiniti style based on the guy below - I'm in!

F23A4

On that note, I wonder how much of an undertaking it would be to adapt the VR38DETT powertrain to an Infiniti G or M as an M3/M5 or C63/E63 competitor.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

My bad for the misunderstanding

I'd imagine Honda is concern for both EPA ratings and real world results. Most of their vehicles right now, despite using engines and trannies that are approaching the end of their life cycles, remain competitive in both areas, Honda probably doesn't see the real world benefits by going with turbo at this moment. May be that will change when they figure out how to get great EPA ratings as well as matching those ratings in the real world?

Sigwe

truth.

Edward'TLS

Then Acura owes a big thanks to this unparalleled Honda thinking, for being where it is now even after 25 years in existence.

TSX69

2012 Infiniti G25

Brands like Infiniti built their empires convincing the world that the badge on the hood shouldn't matter nearly as much as the bones underneath, but Japan's cadre of luxury brands isn't the only group peddling bang for the buck these days. Manufacturers from Kia to Volkswagen now come with cabins packed with luxury amenities. Even the lowly Ford Fiesta can offer buyers high-quality leather seating and enough technology to put the subcompact into geosynchronous orbit. So why bother stepping up to the mid-level luxury league at all? What differentiates a nice car from a fine automobile beyond a little inflection and a lot of marketing?

European brands like BMW and Mercedes-Benz happily prattle on about pedigree and superior engineering, but at the end of the day, a luxury machine simply has to feel special. Foodies often speak of the 5th flavor, umami. Directly translated, the word means "good taste" with an element of savoriness, and automotive luxury is built on that same intangible sensation. Perhaps better than either Acura or Lexus, Infiniti has become a master of that something special, offering its customers elegant style, well-crafted interiors, innovative technology and a superb driving experience. The 2012 Infiniti G25 looks to add superior fuel economy to that list, but can it do so without losing its luxury essence?

Catch a glimpse of the 2012 G25 on the street, and it's easy to mistake the latest addition to the Infiniti stable for its more powerful twin, the G37 Sedan. There's little to differentiate the 2 models aesthetically save wheel choices and 2 digits of nomenclature, and that's a good thing. Despite its age, the current G Sedan design remains fresh, attractive and clearly Infiniti. Buyers looking for all of the swagger of the G line with a lower operating cost will be right at home behind the wheel, and the rest of the world will be hard-pressed to know there isn't a 3.7-liter V6 under the hood.

The same aggressive front fascia stays on for the smaller-displacement model as do the HID projector headlamps up front. The G25 even wears the same dual oval exhaust outlets as the G37, making for a convincing clone of the brawnier machine. Our tester came with the base 17-inch alloy wheels, and while the rolling stock boasts an attractive design, they look small under the rounded fenders and bulging haunches of the 4 door. The look does more to take away from the sedan's presence than the smaller-displacement V6 could ever do.

If only it were so simple indoors. Infiniti has made a name for itself by designing and executing some of the nicest cabins in the segment, at least on recent models like the EX35 and QX56. Unfortunately, this isn't 1 of them. Whereas the rest of the family offers dashboards covered in quilted leather, handsome wood and brushed metal accents as well as a refreshing dearth of plastic, the 2012 G25 misses the boat on all of those marks. While the gauges, climate controls and other switchgear are all lifted from the Infiniti parts bin, cheap-feeling gray plastic abounds along the center stack and elsewhere. It's as if the year 2002 sprung forward in time to come poison 1 of our favorite Japanese sedans. The 7-inch LCD screen mounted in the dash lacks a touch interface and boasts iffy graphics at best, and the 6-speaker stereo doesn't have the punch we expect from a luxury manufacturer. As a result, this is the most Nissan-feeling Infiniti cabin since the G20. To be fair, the G is getting on in years and the G25's instrument panel is basically the same as the rest of the lineup, but the lesser trim bits and baubles really add up.

The G25 also greets the driver with a disappointing steering wheel. The cheap-feeling leather cover could pass as vulcanized rubber, and the leather center section is framed by impressive expanses of the same plastic found elsewhere. Likewise, the controls seem unnecessarily spread out across the wheel, requiring a 2nd glance even after a week with the car.

The good news is that the G25 retains the comfortable seating of the G37. The leather covers feel high-quality to the touch and remain serviceable even after endurance hauls of 6 hours or more. Buyers looking for a suite of power adjustments might as well look elsewhere, though, as the entry-level G relies on manual lumbar support, even on the driver's side.

From this vantage, the G25 simply appears to be a stripped-down version of our beloved G37, but it's what's under the hood that makes this sedan worth considering over its better-executed sibling. In the interest of full disclosure, we should make it perfectly clear that the 3.7-liter VQ V6 found behind the G37's headlights is one of our favorite engines on the planet. It makes all the right noises, puts down excellent power and remains endearingly gruff, so when we say Infiniti may have done something brilliant by yanking the larger 6-cylinder from the engine bay, we want you to comprehend the full scope of our meaning. In an effort to stave off higher fuel prices and ever stiffer Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, engineers swapped the delicious 3.7-liter V6 for a smaller-displacement 2.5-liter unit.

With 218 horsepower at 6,400 rpm and 187 pound-feet of torque at 4,800 rpm, the engine falls short of the 3.7-liter 6 by 110 horses. That's a notable chunk in a vehicle that tips the scales at 3,549 pounds, and the shortfall is certainly apparent off the line. Still, the 2.5-liter V6 hardly makes the G25 a dog. Acceleration is more than adequate so long as the driver is willing to pin the machine's ears back and reach all the way to the 7,500 rpm redline. This engine makes its power in its upper octaves, and getting anywhere with a purpose requires plenty of time with the tach pointed at the passenger side.

That's just fine for scoundrels like us who don't mind beating on someone else's machine, but buyers familiar with the buttery torque of the G37 may have an issue with ringing their new car's neck at every onramp. The good news is that the reduction in grunt yields improved Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy ratings. The 2012 Infiniti G25 is good for 20 mpg city and 29 mpg highway, which is consistent with our time with the vehicle. A G37 Journey makes do with 19 city and 27 highway.

We covered a little more than 1,100 miles from Knoxville, Tennessee to Washington, D.C., during which time we saw as much as 33.4 mpg from the onboard mileage calculator as we slogged up I-81. After a lovely tour of all the wonders of traffic and construction the Beltway has to offer, including an hour-and-a-half stint in stop-and-go traffic, that number fell to 27.9 mpg by our at-the-pump calculations. Refreshingly, the in-dash display proved to be within .2 mpg of our figure.

On the highway, the cut in power is considerably less noticeable. Pop into the passing lane, introduce the accelerator to the carpet and the seven-speed automatic transmission quickly finds the appropriate gear to get the engine screaming. The run from 70 mph to triple digits takes surprisingly little time, and if anything, the gearbox is remarkable for its lack of drama. As in other applications, shifts are smooth and precise, helping to increase the smaller-displacement V6's livability by leaps and bounds.

Duck off the highway and the G25 provides the same level of handling prowess that makes the G37 such a sweetheart in our eyes. The suspension is firm without any harshness, and the neutral turn-in and slight tendency to oversteer make the sedan a playful dance partner should the mood strike. Unfortunately, engineers cursed the G25 with decidedly under-assisted steering. Manipulating the wheel at a stop or at low speed requires a surprising amount of effort for this class, and the story doesn't get much better once you're at apex-clipping velocities.

As a result, the steering feels falsely heavy, which is constantly at odds with the 4-door's fairly quick steering rack. The combination makes the G25 less intuitive to drive aggressively than its sibling. Of course, this model makes no real attempt to distinguish itself as a sports sedan, so comparing it to the athletic G37 may be a bit of a miscue. Rather, the small-displacement G serves as a fit contender for the Lexus IS250. With 14 additional horsepower, a more advanced gearbox and a lower MSRP, the Infiniti has plenty of checks in its column, though the Lexus manages 1 mpg better in both city and highway fuel economy. The 2012 IS250 also weighs in at 100 pounds less than the baby G.

Speaking of price tags, buyers can look forward to shelling out $32,600 for the 2012 G25, plus an $895 destination fee. Our tester came with just 1 option, a $1,000 moonroof, though the Journey trim threw in Bluetooth hands-free calling, XM satellite radio and dual-zone automatic climate control. That price puts the G25 under the $34,765 that Lexus asks for the 2012 IS250 with an automatic transmission.

But the truth is that the IS250 is graced with a much more upscale interior, and while we're in love with the 2.5-liter V6, 7-speed automatic transmission and capable handling found in the G25, buyers in the class rightfully expect the cabin to match the badge in the grille. Infiniti has done a smart job of building a more efficient G, but the sedan has lost much of the umami that separates the mid-level luxury line from its Nissan counterparts.

Sarlacc

G25 is dropped from the 2013 line up. Smart move.

ttribe

G25 made no sense in the first place. An underpowered V6 as an alternative to the 300+hp V6 in the G37? Less power, marginally better gas mileage and you couldn't even get the nav system on the G25. Huh?

ThermonMermon

the G25 is already dropped? wow. one year production?

phile

you know what, at least Infiniti saw its mistake, scrapped the product from its offering & moved on.

Will Y.

BMW has had the 325/328 in addition to the 330/335 optional engine for over a decade now, IIRC, so the little 6 + big 6 for the same chassis works for BMW. BMW did that same thing with the 5 series, too, until the bigger engine option became a V8.

Lexus has attempted to emulate that success with the IS250-IS350, but Infiniti strikes me as having a much smaller customer base numerically than Lexus or BMW. Cadillac has more than one 6-cylinder available for the CTS, too, but IDK how that's working for Cadillac.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think there are several issues with the G25 is its pricing.

1.) The base G25 is only $3800 cheaper than the base G37. The Lexus IS250 on the other hand is around $6000 cheaper than the IS350.

2.) G25 does not have many drivetrain options - no MT, no AWD. IS250 has both options.

3.) Most people associate Infiniti with performance luxury. G25 isn't fast enough and no MT to be considered a performance sedan. Lexus on the other ahnd is more about luxury than performance. Even if the IS250 isn't all that fast, the brand name is strong enough to get sales.

biker

If all the MB-Nissan drivetrain tie up is to be believed, there'll likely be a G25 at the G FMC with the engine out of the MB C250? The G needs to lose some weight.

Moog-Type-S

G25 was DOA. A bad idea from day one.

At least Infiniti knows when to kill a bad product.

Hapa DC5

they sell outside of the U.S.

ttribe

Well, not entirely...it should never have made it off the drawing board in the first place. But, at least they DID kill it. Insight[cough]RL[cough]ZDX[cough]Crosstour.

Edward'TLS

Once again, this demonstrates that the North American car buyers are no fools.

Mizouse

damn.. i wanted one.

oh well.