PortlandRL

You too, huh?

I call it the Train Wreck Syndrome. You know what's behind the shade, you know you don't want to see it, you know it'll just ruin your mood but you go and look anyway.

pttl

ALL Hyundai products KILL all honda and acura products.

Mowgli

And a mustang GT is faster as well, but what does a TSX v6 or GS350 have to do with a cheap Sonata 2.0T? Those are awfully slow compared to a BMW M5, Honda has a long way to go in engine/transmission application.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

You are right with Edmunds data. I was actually referring to C&D data (for both Sonata 2.0T and Camry V6).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

"Not so fast. Our test car ran from zero to 60 mph in 6.2 seconds and to the quarter-mile mark in 14.7 at 99 mph. A Camry V-6 cracks six seconds to 60 (5.8) and covers the quarter-mile in 14.3 at 99. A Mazda 6 s Grand Touring sedan with V-6 power hits 60 mph in 6.1. And both V-6 cars with automatics are quicker in the 5-to-60-mph street-start sprint."

My point was that, despite having the 2nd best in-class power to weight ratio, it's actually not THAT fast. Unfortunately, there's no observed mpg for the Camry on C&D's site too. On the other hand, C&D got 21mpg in the TL SH-AWD 6MT (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test).

C&D also got 25mpg in the TSX V6:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

Curb weight: 3620 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 28.3 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 188 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.85 g


FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 18/27 mpg
C/D observed: 25 mpg

Sonata:
Curb weight: 3443 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.1 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 99 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 180 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.79 g

FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 22/33 mpg
C/D observed: 24 mpg

Despite using the outdated J series and the ancient 5AT while carrting an extra 200lb, the TSX V6 actually returned better observed mpg. Obviously, these cars were driven on different days and on different roads. However, I'd imagine with turbo is that good with fuel economy, it should still be much better than the old V6 right?

Also, despite having significantly more torque, especially at the low end, as well as an extra gear, the Sonata is still slower from 0-60mph and 5-60mph.

I also believe the Hyundai's engine is a "world engine" developed by Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi together.

phile

Camry V6 is seriously fast for a family sedan. In SE form it's pretty sporty.

majin ssj eric

How the hell did this become a TSX vs. Sonata thread??? The Sonata turbo costs around $25k while the TSX V6 comes in at well over $32k. Its a different segment for gods sakes!

Costco

It was my fault

Just made an offhand comparison between a TSX I4 and the Sonata 2.0T

SSFTSX

R&T has achieved 5.9 Sec for 0-60 TSX V6. with 100mph @14,6 sec mark

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...0dc8868a2e.pdf
When you look at 1-4 TSX test.
0-100mph is achieved in 18.5 second
0-120mph is achieved in 30.6 second.
It took 12.1 second from going 100mph to 120mph for I-4 TSX


Now when u look at your own data. It takes 12.7 second from going 100mph to 120mph for V6 TSX. Infact slower than I-4 which cannot be right.

The power to weight ratio of V6 TSX is way better and once your in high rpm range. 6MT not matter that much.

SSFTSX

Think harder once you put 6MT/6AT in TSX V6 with DI wish:
M5 is not particular fast car or handles well for the amount of money it charges. M5 has horrible aerodynamic profile for high speed.
you dont need to spend extra $45k to generate extra performance.
how ever you can spend extra $10k over Sonata 2.0T to have better car. and not stuck with car that only pull 0.79g
Sonata 2.0T is not particulary cheap it lacks fully independent suspension for comfort, have low roof line in back. rear seat legroom is not of family car. so if it is not of family car so why not buy a sport sedan. instead of buying this compromise. Above all 2.0T is end of its advancement.

fsttyms1

What the F are you smoking?

knavinusa

He's really getting you worked up, huh?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Actually, this is entirely possible. This shows the drawback with only 5 forward gears. I'm not sure if you have ever driven a J series Honda/Acura with a 5AT before, but 4th gear blows. Using my TL as an example, the 3rd gear takes the car up to around 100mph near the redline. Once the car shifts to 4th gear, the engine speed drops to around 4500rpm (from 7000rpm). It takes a while to get back to the "power" zone. 4th gear is very long. It's technically an overdrive gear since the ratio is lower than 1:1. On the other hand, with the close-ratio 6mt in the tsx, you stay in the vtec zone all the time.

Costco

If you must reply to SSFTSX, PLEASE don't quote him. Thanks.

- from the 95% of automotive news that has him on their ignore list, which is made superfluous when others quoting him

SSFTSX

This data of TSX V6 is inaccurate.

5AT TL-SH-AWD takes only 11 sec going from 100mph to 120mph. So how is TSX V6 is losing speed but TL is not? when both have identical performance.
Fun part is TSX V6 is faster from 0-100 mph than TL but all of sudden TL gets faster after 100mph. Both have 5AT.


http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...1b15b66cd1.pdf

phile

i've started putting those people on ignore too.

pttl

I wonder if he has ever driven a car, or actually seen one in person.

Or, does he just sit in a room pouring over hundreds of pages of magazines and web sites looking for "pearls of wisdom" regarding mirrors, tire width, coefficient of drag, vehicle height etc, etc, etc, so that he can share them with everyone here at AZ?

I know I'm now convinced...Acura is the only vehicle on earth worth spending a dime on. All trust in Acura. All HAIL to the god of automotive engineering...Acura. May Acura reign forever!

All those who will swear their allegiance to Acura, sign up below. Don't be shy now, you know who you are.
1. pttl
2.
3.

Costco

YEH

Uhh, the color red and Ferraris are synonymous - Honda, not so much.

And it's not like the red "S" is so special anyways. - lol





And oh, only a neophyte would go by the manufacturer's measurements for rear leg room since it all depends on far the front seat tracks go.

The proper way to judge rear seat room is set the front seat for cars in the comparison at a certain measurement - which, in this case, would result in rear seat leg room for the Sonata, Accord and Camry all within an inch or so of each other.

majin ssj eric

Acura is teh bestest evah!!!11!

Shift_Acura

Theres fan boys like him on every forum but I havent seen a forum where there are so many people obsessed with trying to prove the fan boy wrong...even the mods are in on this mess...seriously I wouldn't say anything but its almost every thread in Automotive News now.

Hapa DC5

He's trolling and we're guilty of keeping it going.

pttl

All Hail Honda/Acura! Bow down before the great god of automobile brilliance!
No other car company has such fore thought and ingenuity such as Honda/Acura. Tires, Mirrors, Cd, ground clearance!
Don't forget it!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

hahaha alright man

SSFTSX, perhaps the the TL SH-AWD 5AT and the TSX V6 don't have identical performance. Check out the following links:

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=783010

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...specifications

The gear ratios are different.

TL AWD 5AT:
1st, 2.697
2nd, 1.606
3rd, 1.071
4th, 0.694
5th, 0.491
Reverse, 1.888
Final, 4.533

TSX V6:
1st - 2.697
2nd - 1.606
3rd - 1.071
4th - 0.694
5th - 0.491
Reverse - 1.888
Final Drive - 4.312

In other words, the engine and tranny in the TSX V6 are exactly the same as the TL FWD. But Acura fudged with the final gear with the TL AWD. With the more aggressive final gear, the TL AWD would have an edge.

Also, the power to weight ratio is better for the TL AWD, 13lb/hp vs 13.14lb/hp. Since you like to get into the details, I thought these numbers might be of interest to you.

Perhaps the combination of better power-to-weight ratio, shorter final gear, and some other small differences were more than enough to offset the burden of the AWD system?

SSFTSX

I cant believe your defending inaccurate data with irrelevant stuff.
How can be Honda CrossTour be faster than TSX V-6 moving from 100 to 120mph. It is only 11.7 second. It is full one second faster than TSX V-6.
What kind of special 5speed automatic and power to weight ratio advantage Crosstour has over TSX V-6?. I am not going into aerodynamics.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...f4c09d9cd0.pdf

TSX V-6 is the fastest production 5speed Auto Acura/Honda. and it is proven beyond doubt from MT/R&T/Edmunds.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

relax there buddy I'm not defending anything...just giving some suggestions/opinions...chill out man!

You mentioned about the TSX V6 being the fastest production 5AT Acura/Honda. You know what, I think I agree with that, up to a certain degree. You said that it's been proven at MT/R&T/Edmunds. Well, I got a bit of time on my hand, so I went to MT, and it proves that you are right, the TSX V6 is the fastest, but I can only see prove up to the 1/4 mile. It doesn't say anything about 100mph+ (not that I care....). In fact, the TL SH-AWD also traps at the same speed as the TSX V6. What's after 100mph? Well, the TSX would have to shift to 4th gear. The TL, with its more aggressive final gear, is probably already in 4th gear by now for a while. What does that mean? It probably means that, while the TSX is stuck at around 4500rpm, the TL is probably at 5000rpm in 4th gear, ready to start pulling again. It's the same thing with Road and Track, it doesn't show anything after 100mph. What about Edmunds? Again, it only shows up to the 1/4 mile...it doesn't show anything beyond that.

http://www.insideline.com/acura/tsx/...and-video.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...nce_specs.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/up...-acura-tsx-v-6

So you are right, and I agree with you, that it's been proven beyond doubt that the TSX V6 is the fastest production 5AT Acura/Honda....up to 100mph. C&D might be wrong, and they always make errors. For instance, that link you just posted about the crosstour, the writer wrote down 6 speed AT. So it's possible that they also made a mistake with the TSX V6 number. I just can't find the facts/numbers to also prove that, the TSX V6 is also fastest after 100mph.....but then, why would anyone care?

Crosstour FWD/AWD Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.697
2nd: 1.606
3rd: 1.071
4th: 0.766
5th: 0.612
Reverse: 1.889
Final Drive Ratio: 4.533

As you can see, this is the same tranny as the TL SH-AWD. I'm not sure if you have driven a J series powered car with the 5AT. I can tell you that my car would pull strongly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. But as soon as it hits 4th....damn....it feels like a corolla would be able to pass me.

fsttyms1

Oh i love a good bout of paper racing in the morning

dom

What does any of this have to do with the Sonata?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. Let's keep this on the topic of the Sonata please.

yohan81718

^ because it is SSFTSXZ's job to always compare vehicles...

but that's what annoys me.. comparison is good only to a certain extent..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

opps, lol, i got too carried away...sorry guys

TSX69

Hyundai Moves to Fix Early 2011 Sonata Turbo Hose Issue

Hyundai's eagerly anticipated Sonata 2.0T model has just begun hitting U.S. showrooms, but a small quality issue that cropped up in the first batch of cars is causing some consternation. Conversations have been popping up on internet forums about the issue, and there has been some confusion as to the nature of the problem as well as questions about whether or not a stop-sale has been ordered by the company.

A small rubber hose that feeds oil to the turbo unit in very early 2011 Sonata Turbo models was apparently built to the wrong specification and needs replacement. According to a few user forum reports, some dealers haven't been allowing customers to test drive the vehicles until the correct part has been fitted. Additionally, at least one of the first 2.0T owners informed Autoblog that his dealer actually flat-bedded his car back for service. However, Hyundai officials tell Autoblog that this issue affects very few units, and they want to make it clear that no stop-sale has been issued.

Hyundai spokesman Dan Bedore:

"In about 30 cases, we had to get with customers who already had their cars. We're using the new hose in production and have finished retrofitting those that were built but not sold. We asked dealers to replace the hose before delivery but didn't issue a stop sale. No lost sales, no big disruption, the customer comes first – that's business as usual for Hyundai."

Hyundai says it only sold around 30 units before the hose problem was discovered, and the company has only built around 1,000 units in total, most of which are still in transit to dealers. All new Sonata turbos rolling off of assembly lines are being fitted with the new part, and all new models sold will have the correct hose installed.

Hyundai's Sonata line has been an extremely strong seller since its introduction earlier this year, quickly moving the Korean automaker into third place in the hotly contested family sedan segment. However, the Sonata has also suffered some early teething problems, including the recall of 1,300 units over a possible door latch malfunction in March and the recall of 139,500 units over steering problems in late October.

dom

Ruh-Oh.

fsttyms1

Minor.

PortlandRL

Could happen to anyone....

is300eater

Wagon spied





http://www.autoblog.com/photos/spy-s...wagon/#3027456

Moog-Type-S

Turbos don't need oil...who cares about the hose.

Thankfully Hyundai has 100k power train warranty.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

AWD Wagon Turbo please.

fsttyms1

Awesome.

smarty666

by the way, I just love your avatar man! Every time I see rockin Yoda it makes me laugh!

chungkopi

i get less than 20mpg when i beat my civic to death.


This is more accurate mpg IMO.

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...and-video.html