Hyundai: Sonata News
03-16-2010, 11:14 PM
#642
hail to the victors
03-16-2010, 11:23 PM
#643
hail to the victors
biggest front room in the segment. if you ever post about sonata being civic sized, i will simply think you are doing this to pi$$ people off.
like i stated before, the rear is not for anybody who is over 6ft 2. that's the only downside of the design.
03-16-2010, 11:27 PM
#644
hail to the victors
Almost all family sedans are AT transmission. here Sonata only gets 22mpg in city and 35mpg on freeway despite being lighter and with 6AT.
3 year old Honda Accord has same rating in city and only 4mile difference on EPA ratings. Honda car routinely beats EPA figures. so what is ground breaking about Hyundai?. u put 6 AT and make it lighter by not having V6 option in design and with 215 width tires. long term depreciation of Honda will always be better. with Honda u get more accessories and wider dealer network.
3 year old Honda Accord has same rating in city and only 4mile difference on EPA ratings. Honda car routinely beats EPA figures. so what is ground breaking about Hyundai?. u put 6 AT and make it lighter by not having V6 option in design and with 215 width tires. long term depreciation of Honda will always be better. with Honda u get more accessories and wider dealer network.
Sonata has a better 5 year residual than accord. as a matter of fact, 2011 sonata has the highest 5 year residual in all midsize sedan.
03-16-2010, 11:43 PM
#645
hail to the victors
5 year residual
sonata
$10,406 (40%)
accord
$9376 (37%)
malibu
$7539 (29%)
fusion
$8975 (31%)
legacy
$10,329 (35%)
camry
$8034 ($34%)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../features.html
accord has highest 2 and 4 year residual. but just pointing out the long term depreciation like you mentioned.
sonata
$10,406 (40%)
accord
$9376 (37%)
malibu
$7539 (29%)
fusion
$8975 (31%)
legacy
$10,329 (35%)
camry
$8034 ($34%)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../features.html
accord has highest 2 and 4 year residual. but just pointing out the long term depreciation like you mentioned.
Last edited by chungkopi; 03-16-2010 at 11:46 PM.
03-17-2010, 08:19 AM
#647
It does not matter how much space u have in front. it is superflous.
Sonata falls behind in rear seat legroom, rear seat height, NVH levels under acceleration and fuel economy is not much better than 3 year old Accord which was introduced in 2007. not a single professional test in any magazine has achieved better than Accord. This thing can only be compared to Civic.
Civic has perfect flat floor in rear and that makes difference. the guy front passenger seat is moved to the back and he can perfectly seats.
Sonata falls behind in rear seat legroom, rear seat height, NVH levels under acceleration and fuel economy is not much better than 3 year old Accord which was introduced in 2007. not a single professional test in any magazine has achieved better than Accord. This thing can only be compared to Civic.
Civic has perfect flat floor in rear and that makes difference. the guy front passenger seat is moved to the back and he can perfectly seats.
03-17-2010, 09:39 AM
#648
Race Director
Biker, who sold his 7 year old Accord in a private sale for 39% of new price.
03-18-2010, 07:28 PM
#652
Companies like Hyundai are one dimensional aspect of car. Look at Honda once speed is built up. its superior aerodynamic design comes into play even against turbo charged cars.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...gen_gti_page_3
Normally aspirated though it may be, in the upper reaches of the powerband, the Si pulls with the same conviction as the GTI and Mini. A quick look at the acceleration numbers shows all three neck-and-neck through the quarter-mile, with the Civic actually pulling ahead to the 110-mph mark. This could be largely due to aerodynamics, but still shows that as speed climbs into triple digits, the Si is a willing and very capable partner
Normally aspirated though it may be, in the upper reaches of the powerband, the Si pulls with the same conviction as the GTI and Mini. A quick look at the acceleration numbers shows all three neck-and-neck through the quarter-mile, with the Civic actually pulling ahead to the 110-mph mark. This could be largely due to aerodynamics, but still shows that as speed climbs into triple digits, the Si is a willing and very capable partner
irrespective of that J.D power dependibility study has Honda Fit, CRV, Accord, TSX, Ridgeline among the top in there respective categories. I am sure Japanese made Civic would have been to top category.
how many Hyundais are there?. Hyundai as a brand not there to command premium in price and depreciation of Honda. There is Hyundai Genisis long term test in MT. it suspension is worse than Accord.
03-18-2010, 07:35 PM
#653
Can't believe people are STILL trying to argue with this guy! 
It's like trying to convince a stubborn retarded person to agree with you..... you don't win either way and you look silly in the process
It's like trying to convince a stubborn retarded person to agree with you..... you don't win either way and you look silly in the process
03-19-2010, 01:37 AM
#654
hail to the victors
I have clearly showd the pictures of space in Civic even when driver seat is moved behind passenger side. and look at guy legs there is space for even longer leg person for driver. so why u need oversize car?
Companies like Hyundai are one dimensional aspect of car. Look at Honda once speed is built up. its superior aerodynamic design comes into play even against turbo charged cars.
irrespective of that J.D power dependibility study has Honda Fit, CRV, Accord, TSX, Ridgeline among the top in there respective categories. I am sure Japanese made Civic would have been to top category.
how many Hyundais are there?. Hyundai as a brand not there to command premium in price and depreciation of Honda. There is Hyundai Genisis long term test in MT. it suspension is worse than Accord.
Companies like Hyundai are one dimensional aspect of car. Look at Honda once speed is built up. its superior aerodynamic design comes into play even against turbo charged cars.
irrespective of that J.D power dependibility study has Honda Fit, CRV, Accord, TSX, Ridgeline among the top in there respective categories. I am sure Japanese made Civic would have been to top category.
how many Hyundais are there?. Hyundai as a brand not there to command premium in price and depreciation of Honda. There is Hyundai Genisis long term test in MT. it suspension is worse than Accord.
do you want me to post my wife's elantra? it has more room than last gen TL, you know? more room than civic too. but then new sonata is way way bigger than my wife's elantra. it's technically a large car, you know? why don't you post some elantra pictures?
03-19-2010, 01:39 AM
#655
hail to the victors
Honda is great reliable brand. so is hyundai. honda is a proven brand, and hyundai is a rising brand. hyundai has been doing very well lately in terms of JD associates studies. always finished above average for last 6-7 years. and ranked 4th last year in reliability studies.
ah superior accord lost to sonata in both motor trend and edmunds comparisons. Edmunds states Sonata is now the new bench mark in the midsize sedan. what an inferior product.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...ison-test.html
-beat Edmund's favorite Mazda6 too.
Overall, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata is a remarkable achievement. Not just because it does so well in a few ways what the Accord has done for so many years, but also because it delivers excellence in so many categories. The 2011 Hyundai Sonata is the new benchmark among mainstream large sedans. There, we said it.
genesis/genesis coupe needs one or two more refresh to become better. it's almost there, but not there yet. remember these two were Hyundai's 1st crack at RWD. gen coupe v6 track were almost as good as G37. almost all publication basically said it's 95% G37 coupe. 2.0T stock is underwhelming, but it's a great canvas for tuners. and trust me, not many gen coupe 2.0T buyers will keep them bone stock. honestly, i would take gen coupe over my civic SI in a heart beat. it's better looking, it's RWD, and it has much more potential. but i no longer am interesting modding cars.
don't get me wrong. i love honda, and i'll always be a honda fan. i still consider last gen TL one of the best looking sedan ever built in last 2 decades. but honda/acura has been disappointing me since 2007. Hyundai? since the debut of genesis, they've been hitting home run almost every time.
ah superior accord lost to sonata in both motor trend and edmunds comparisons. Edmunds states Sonata is now the new bench mark in the midsize sedan. what an inferior product.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...ison-test.html
-beat Edmund's favorite Mazda6 too.
Overall, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata is a remarkable achievement. Not just because it does so well in a few ways what the Accord has done for so many years, but also because it delivers excellence in so many categories. The 2011 Hyundai Sonata is the new benchmark among mainstream large sedans. There, we said it.
genesis/genesis coupe needs one or two more refresh to become better. it's almost there, but not there yet. remember these two were Hyundai's 1st crack at RWD. gen coupe v6 track were almost as good as G37. almost all publication basically said it's 95% G37 coupe. 2.0T stock is underwhelming, but it's a great canvas for tuners. and trust me, not many gen coupe 2.0T buyers will keep them bone stock. honestly, i would take gen coupe over my civic SI in a heart beat. it's better looking, it's RWD, and it has much more potential. but i no longer am interesting modding cars.
don't get me wrong. i love honda, and i'll always be a honda fan. i still consider last gen TL one of the best looking sedan ever built in last 2 decades. but honda/acura has been disappointing me since 2007. Hyundai? since the debut of genesis, they've been hitting home run almost every time.
03-19-2010, 07:32 PM
#657
Both Civic and TSX has similar wheel base and rear leg room. Similar case is with Maxima/Altima. there is $10k starting price difference between two but same wheel base, size.
Elantra will be technically large car if it as very big advantage over Civic in rear legroom and height. which is not the case.
All Civic, Elantra, Sonata, Corrolla are suitable for 4 seaters.
03-19-2010, 08:09 PM
#658
Honda is great reliable brand. so is hyundai. honda is a proven brand, and hyundai is a rising brand. hyundai has been doing very well lately in terms of JD associates studies. always finished above average for last 6-7 years. and ranked 4th last year in reliability studies.
ah superior accord lost to sonata in both motor trend and edmunds comparisons. Edmunds states Sonata is now the new bench mark in the midsize sedan. what an inferior product.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...ison-test.html
-beat Edmund's favorite Mazda6 too.
Overall, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata is a remarkable achievement. Not just because it does so well in a few ways what the Accord has done for so many years, but also because it delivers excellence in so many categories. The 2011 Hyundai Sonata is the new benchmark among mainstream large sedans. There, we said it.
genesis/genesis coupe needs one or two more refresh to become better. it's almost there, but not there yet. remember these two were Hyundai's 1st crack at RWD. gen coupe v6 track were almost as good as G37. almost all publication basically said it's 95% G37 coupe. 2.0T stock is underwhelming, but it's a great canvas for tuners. and trust me, not many gen coupe 2.0T buyers will keep them bone stock. honestly, i would take gen coupe over my civic SI in a heart beat. it's better looking, it's RWD, and it has much more potential. but i no longer am interesting modding cars.
don't get me wrong. i love honda, and i'll always be a honda fan. i still consider last gen TL one of the best looking sedan ever built in last 2 decades. but honda/acura has been disappointing me since 2007. Hyundai? since the debut of genesis, they've been hitting home run almost every time.
ah superior accord lost to sonata in both motor trend and edmunds comparisons. Edmunds states Sonata is now the new bench mark in the midsize sedan. what an inferior product.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...ison-test.html
-beat Edmund's favorite Mazda6 too.
Overall, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata is a remarkable achievement. Not just because it does so well in a few ways what the Accord has done for so many years, but also because it delivers excellence in so many categories. The 2011 Hyundai Sonata is the new benchmark among mainstream large sedans. There, we said it.
genesis/genesis coupe needs one or two more refresh to become better. it's almost there, but not there yet. remember these two were Hyundai's 1st crack at RWD. gen coupe v6 track were almost as good as G37. almost all publication basically said it's 95% G37 coupe. 2.0T stock is underwhelming, but it's a great canvas for tuners. and trust me, not many gen coupe 2.0T buyers will keep them bone stock. honestly, i would take gen coupe over my civic SI in a heart beat. it's better looking, it's RWD, and it has much more potential. but i no longer am interesting modding cars.
don't get me wrong. i love honda, and i'll always be a honda fan. i still consider last gen TL one of the best looking sedan ever built in last 2 decades. but honda/acura has been disappointing me since 2007. Hyundai? since the debut of genesis, they've been hitting home run almost every time.
long term reliability and depreciation is question mark.
No where in the world Honda=Hyundai.
Honda cars command higher prices than even Toyota let alone Hyundai. Consumers percieve as such. It is US made Hondas are down market.
Honda are good if u drive car for 20 years. Like 1992 Honda Accord SE.
All Hyundai profits are due to cheaper currency while Honda has premium price. Honda is in long game by building higher quality cars across the continents. I think ur celebrating too early of Hyundai arrival.
http://www.motor-trade-insider.com/i...bility-survey/
Honda top, Land Rover bottom in new reliability survey
Posted on July 20th, 2009 by News in Consumer, Manufacturers, News
The latest Manufacturer Reliability Index carried out by Warranty Direct has discovered that five of the top six reliable cars in Britain are Japanese and of those three are manufactured in the UK.
The research found that Honda buyers can drive with peace of mind knowing that there is only a 10 per cent chance of a breakdown, when the car is between three and six years old.
Honda top, Land Rover bottom in new reliability survey
Posted on July 20th, 2009 by News in Consumer, Manufacturers, News
The latest Manufacturer Reliability Index carried out by Warranty Direct has discovered that five of the top six reliable cars in Britain are Japanese and of those three are manufactured in the UK.
The research found that Honda buyers can drive with peace of mind knowing that there is only a 10 per cent chance of a breakdown, when the car is between three and six years old.
Germans are very nationalist about there brands. It does tell some thing Honda is different than Toyota and is priced as such. Fit vs Yaris, Civic vs Corrolla. even Euro Accord under Honda badge is as pricey as IS under Lexus badge.
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2008074
Munich: 20 June 2008—For a second consecutive year, Honda ranks highest among automotive brands in satisfying new-vehicle owners, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) StudySM released today in cooperation with AUTO TESTS.
Now in its seventh year, the study examines customer satisfaction with new vehicles and vehicle service after two years of ownership. Owners provide detailed evaluations of their vehicles and dealers, which cover 77 attributes grouped in four measurements of satisfaction. In order of importance, they are: quality and reliability (30%); vehicle appeal (25%), which includes performance, design, comfort and features; dealer service satisfaction (23%); and ownership costs (22%), which includes fuel consumption, insurance and costs of service/repair.
In the nameplate rankings, Honda leads with a customer satisfaction score of 849 on a 1,000-point scale. Honda performs particularly well in service satisfaction. Following Honda in the rankings is BMW with 845, an increase of 13 index points from 2007. BMW performs well in appeal, and quality and reliability. Toyota, Audi, Mazda, Daihatsu, Mercedes-Benz, Skoda, Volvo and Nissan also perform above the industry average in overall customer satisfaction.
Munich: 20 June 2008—For a second consecutive year, Honda ranks highest among automotive brands in satisfying new-vehicle owners, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) StudySM released today in cooperation with AUTO TESTS.
Now in its seventh year, the study examines customer satisfaction with new vehicles and vehicle service after two years of ownership. Owners provide detailed evaluations of their vehicles and dealers, which cover 77 attributes grouped in four measurements of satisfaction. In order of importance, they are: quality and reliability (30%); vehicle appeal (25%), which includes performance, design, comfort and features; dealer service satisfaction (23%); and ownership costs (22%), which includes fuel consumption, insurance and costs of service/repair.
In the nameplate rankings, Honda leads with a customer satisfaction score of 849 on a 1,000-point scale. Honda performs particularly well in service satisfaction. Following Honda in the rankings is BMW with 845, an increase of 13 index points from 2007. BMW performs well in appeal, and quality and reliability. Toyota, Audi, Mazda, Daihatsu, Mercedes-Benz, Skoda, Volvo and Nissan also perform above the industry average in overall customer satisfaction.
03-21-2010, 12:11 AM
#661
hail to the victors
maybe sonata they tested was too new? who knows? and actually sonata did beat accord in fuel economy for edmunds.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...gination_top_3
again, these comparos aren't real life driving. these guys don't drive like normal people. they push these things. and sonata only has edge in the highway. but then sonata had 21 more horses and 23 more torque.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/so...gination_top_3
again, these comparos aren't real life driving. these guys don't drive like normal people. they push these things. and sonata only has edge in the highway. but then sonata had 21 more horses and 23 more torque.
03-21-2010, 12:49 AM
#662
hail to the victors
Hyundai/kia has passed Honda in sales in Canada, China, India, and many other regions. and globally Hyundai is 4th largest. just 10 years ago hyundai was behind honda. what really happened in last 10 years? very simple. Hyundai has gotten better every year while honda really didn't improve as a brand. Hyundai/kia will pass honda/acura in the U.S by 2014. a year faster than i previously predicted on this board 3 years ago. just watch. it's a cliche, but honda/hyundai reminds me of Sony vs. Samsung back in late 90's. Sony was clearly superior brand. decade later, Samsung is dominating Sony in almost all categories.
This sums up Honda's last 10 years.
teg type R beating Civic SI
http://www.insideline.com/features/1...-civic-si.html
that's a sad reality.
Honda in last few years:
RL- whatever happened to acura's flagship? i rarely see them on the road.
TL - the beak happened. yes, we can put RonJon grill and make it look good, but the public doesn't care. TL is controversial. that's why it's not selling as well as it supposed to be. this is a classic example of over designing & over thinking. last gen TL was a master piece. Honda messed with a success.
ZDX - pointless car, horrible form over function design.
Crosstour - why, why, why?
Insight - sales failure. can't compare to Prius
CRZ - love/hate design, decent mileage, but most likely very pricey little car. this is no CRX. and i predict another bust.
There are more bust than boom for honda. mostly due to a horrible design. Honda really used to kick some major a$$ back then. currently, it's borderline embarrassing because people will name 3-4 honda products when naming top 10 ugliest car on the road today. that's a shame.
meanwhile, Hyundai and Kia has been making a bold statement every time they bring out new cars. They now have RWD coupe, v8 RWD sedan, will have 40+ mpg hybrid, 40+mpg small sedan in new elantra, and most importantly a true Accord competitor in Sonata.
yes, this sounds like honda/acura bashing, but i only tell the truth. I wish Honda get back on track. i was a Type R fan boy. my dream car was NSX. whatever happened to my beloved Honda?
lol, i sound like 1sicklex.
This sums up Honda's last 10 years.
teg type R beating Civic SI
http://www.insideline.com/features/1...-civic-si.html
that's a sad reality.
Honda in last few years:
RL- whatever happened to acura's flagship? i rarely see them on the road.
TL - the beak happened. yes, we can put RonJon grill and make it look good, but the public doesn't care. TL is controversial. that's why it's not selling as well as it supposed to be. this is a classic example of over designing & over thinking. last gen TL was a master piece. Honda messed with a success.
ZDX - pointless car, horrible form over function design.
Crosstour - why, why, why?
Insight - sales failure. can't compare to Prius
CRZ - love/hate design, decent mileage, but most likely very pricey little car. this is no CRX. and i predict another bust.
There are more bust than boom for honda. mostly due to a horrible design. Honda really used to kick some major a$$ back then. currently, it's borderline embarrassing because people will name 3-4 honda products when naming top 10 ugliest car on the road today. that's a shame.
meanwhile, Hyundai and Kia has been making a bold statement every time they bring out new cars. They now have RWD coupe, v8 RWD sedan, will have 40+ mpg hybrid, 40+mpg small sedan in new elantra, and most importantly a true Accord competitor in Sonata.
yes, this sounds like honda/acura bashing, but i only tell the truth. I wish Honda get back on track. i was a Type R fan boy. my dream car was NSX. whatever happened to my beloved Honda?
lol, i sound like 1sicklex.
03-21-2010, 01:06 AM
#663
hail to the victors
No where in the world Honda=Hyundai.
Honda cars command higher prices than even Toyota let alone Hyundai. Consumers percieve as such. It is US made Hondas are down market.
Honda are good if u drive car for 20 years. Like 1992 Honda Accord SE.
All Hyundai profits are due to cheaper currency while Honda has premium price. Honda is in long game by building higher quality cars across the continents. I think ur celebrating too early of Hyundai arrival.
that kind of snobbery and egotism is making many honda fans look bad. it's time to admit that Honda isn't what Honda once used to be. this is the only way Honda/acura will get better in the future. one bad design judgment on civic or accord will completely ruin the brand dramatically. after Toyota recall, people will continue to be more skeptical on all brands. Honda is no exception. there will be more choices, and many brands will just get better. just look at Ford and how quickly they turned things around.
Accord/camry, Civic/Corolla used to be like Lakers and Celtics back in 80's. but the gap has been closing every year. now there are great cars like Fusion, sonata and etc to compete against 2 class leaders. Cruze, Focus, and new elantra which will threaten Civic/Corolla as well.
and as far as price goes, yes, honda is bit more pricey. but the days of buying 16k OTD sonata is long gone. sonata OTD price will be about a grand or two cheaper than accord which makes me to wonder why buy an accord when you can buy more powerful and updated sonata?
anyway, I've been celebrating hyundai's arrival ever since hyundai gave us this. yes, it's not perfect, but hyundai trying to give us what we want. i applaud their relentless pursuit.
03-21-2010, 01:20 AM
#664
hail to the victors
It does not matter Elantra is more roomy than last generation TL. last Generation was launched in 2003. and now computer aided design has so much that more efficient packaging is possible. so these artificial boundaries between cars are now meaningless.
Both Civic and TSX has similar wheel base and rear leg room. Similar case is with Maxima/Altima. there is $10k starting price difference between two but same wheel base, size.
Elantra will be technically large car if it as very big advantage over Civic in rear legroom and height. which is not the case.
All Civic, Elantra, Sonata, Corrolla are suitable for 4 seaters.
Both Civic and TSX has similar wheel base and rear leg room. Similar case is with Maxima/Altima. there is $10k starting price difference between two but same wheel base, size.
Elantra will be technically large car if it as very big advantage over Civic in rear legroom and height. which is not the case.
All Civic, Elantra, Sonata, Corrolla are suitable for 4 seaters.
wow 200hp for a small sedan? truly a remarkable achievement.
03-21-2010, 02:20 AM
#665
Hyundai/kia has passed Honda in sales in Canada, China, India, and many other regions. and globally Hyundai is 4th largest. just 10 years ago hyundai was behind honda. what really happened in last 10 years? very simple. Hyundai has gotten better every year while honda really didn't improve as a brand. Hyundai/kia will pass honda/acura in the U.S by 2014. a year faster than i previously predicted on this board 3 years ago. just watch. it's a cliche, but honda/hyundai reminds me of Sony vs. Samsung back in late 90's. Sony was clearly superior brand. decade later, Samsung is dominating Sony in almost all categories.
This sums up Honda's last 10 years.
teg type R beating Civic SI
http://www.insideline.com/features/1...-civic-si.html
that's a sad reality.
Honda in last few years:
RL- whatever happened to acura's flagship? i rarely see them on the road.
TL - the beak happened. yes, we can put RonJon grill and make it look good, but the public doesn't care. TL is controversial. that's why it's not selling as well as it supposed to be. this is a classic example of over designing & over thinking. last gen TL was a master piece. Honda messed with a success.
ZDX - pointless car, horrible form over function design.
Crosstour - why, why, why?
Insight - sales failure. can't compare to Prius
CRZ - love/hate design, decent mileage, but most likely very pricey little car. this is no CRX. and i predict another bust.
There are more bust than boom for honda. mostly due to a horrible design. Honda really used to kick some major a$$ back then. currently, it's borderline embarrassing because people will name 3-4 honda products when naming top 10 ugliest car on the road today. that's a shame.
meanwhile, Hyundai and Kia has been making a bold statement every time they bring out new cars. They now have RWD coupe, v8 RWD sedan, will have 40+ mpg hybrid, 40+mpg small sedan in new elantra, and most importantly a true Accord competitor in Sonata.
yes, this sounds like honda/acura bashing, but i only tell the truth. I wish Honda get back on track. i was a Type R fan boy. my dream car was NSX. whatever happened to my beloved Honda?
lol, i sound like 1sicklex.
This sums up Honda's last 10 years.
teg type R beating Civic SI
http://www.insideline.com/features/1...-civic-si.html
that's a sad reality.
Honda in last few years:
RL- whatever happened to acura's flagship? i rarely see them on the road.
TL - the beak happened. yes, we can put RonJon grill and make it look good, but the public doesn't care. TL is controversial. that's why it's not selling as well as it supposed to be. this is a classic example of over designing & over thinking. last gen TL was a master piece. Honda messed with a success.
ZDX - pointless car, horrible form over function design.
Crosstour - why, why, why?
Insight - sales failure. can't compare to Prius
CRZ - love/hate design, decent mileage, but most likely very pricey little car. this is no CRX. and i predict another bust.
There are more bust than boom for honda. mostly due to a horrible design. Honda really used to kick some major a$$ back then. currently, it's borderline embarrassing because people will name 3-4 honda products when naming top 10 ugliest car on the road today. that's a shame.
meanwhile, Hyundai and Kia has been making a bold statement every time they bring out new cars. They now have RWD coupe, v8 RWD sedan, will have 40+ mpg hybrid, 40+mpg small sedan in new elantra, and most importantly a true Accord competitor in Sonata.
yes, this sounds like honda/acura bashing, but i only tell the truth. I wish Honda get back on track. i was a Type R fan boy. my dream car was NSX. whatever happened to my beloved Honda?
lol, i sound like 1sicklex.
It has nothing to do with some other cheap brand being better. even if they sell more. You will never find a Honda product cheaper than Hyundai or Toyota anywhere in the world for similar equiped. Honda always remain on Top by perceive quality anywhere in world.
http://www.zigwheels.com/News/Honda-...a_20100309-1-1
The Honda Jazz has managed to sound off all the right notes in India despite the initial outcry regarding its steep pricing.
It has proved that quality does prevail over quantity and the Jazz has gone on to do the numbers that Honda always envisioned for this premium hatchback. Commemorating this fact is the introduction of the 'Select Edition' Honda Jazz.
The Honda Jazz has managed to sound off all the right notes in India despite the initial outcry regarding its steep pricing.
It has proved that quality does prevail over quantity and the Jazz has gone on to do the numbers that Honda always envisioned for this premium hatchback. Commemorating this fact is the introduction of the 'Select Edition' Honda Jazz.
Most of Honda development is in house. otherwise they can quickly and cheaply introduce new products through cooperative projects. it is different kind of industrial philoshpy. Toyota used to have Yamaha engines and they bought Daihatsu and Hino truck division. They become bigger by buying. Honda has cash to expand. but it is pointless to enter into numbers game in third world countries and lower brand image. which is what Hyundai is doing.
03-21-2010, 02:53 AM
#666
that kind of snobbery and egotism is making many honda fans look bad. it's time to admit that Honda isn't what Honda once used to be. this is the only way Honda/acura will get better in the future. one bad design judgment on civic or accord will completely ruin the brand dramatically. after Toyota recall, people will continue to be more skeptical on all brands. Honda is no exception. there will be more choices, and many brands will just get better. just look at Ford and how quickly they turned things around.
Accord/camry, Civic/Corolla used to be like Lakers and Celtics back in 80's. but the gap has been closing every year. now there are great cars like Fusion, sonata and etc to compete against 2 class leaders. Cruze, Focus, and new elantra which will threaten Civic/Corolla as well.
and as far as price goes, yes, honda is bit more pricey. but the days of buying 16k OTD sonata is long gone. sonata OTD price will be about a grand or two cheaper than accord which makes me to wonder why buy an accord when you can buy more powerful and updated sonata?
anyway, I've been celebrating hyundai's arrival ever since hyundai gave us this. yes, it's not perfect, but hyundai trying to give us what we want. i applaud their relentless pursuit.
Accord/camry, Civic/Corolla used to be like Lakers and Celtics back in 80's. but the gap has been closing every year. now there are great cars like Fusion, sonata and etc to compete against 2 class leaders. Cruze, Focus, and new elantra which will threaten Civic/Corolla as well.
and as far as price goes, yes, honda is bit more pricey. but the days of buying 16k OTD sonata is long gone. sonata OTD price will be about a grand or two cheaper than accord which makes me to wonder why buy an accord when you can buy more powerful and updated sonata?
anyway, I've been celebrating hyundai's arrival ever since hyundai gave us this. yes, it's not perfect, but hyundai trying to give us what we want. i applaud their relentless pursuit.
so Hyundai prices are bit closer. try to match there international counterparts pricing and see what happens to Hyundai sells in third world. even in EU europe Hondas have push button starts etc.
Hyundai is not yet brand that can command premium of Honda
http://www.galwayindependent.com/mot...cological-car/
The Civic Hybrid has been named Germany's most ecological car by the respected Verkehrsclub Deutschland (VCD: a major transport and environment organisation in Germany) in its Environmental Car Ratings for 2007-2008.
Honda Civic
As part of its rating process the VCD sought out the quietest vehicles with the lowest fuel consumption and the lowest level of emissions. The Civic Hybrid met all the organisation’s requirements for environmental compatibility and comfortable driving, and it was highly rated for its outstanding quietness.
Sales and Marketing Director of Universal Honda said: “This latest award for Civic Hybrid, together with the JD Power Award where Honda was voted the number one brand in Germany indicates the esteem in which Honda is held in Germany. The results of these international independent surveys are very satisfying and indicate that Honda is indeed at the cutting edge of technological and environmental developments
The Civic Hybrid has been named Germany's most ecological car by the respected Verkehrsclub Deutschland (VCD: a major transport and environment organisation in Germany) in its Environmental Car Ratings for 2007-2008.
Honda Civic
As part of its rating process the VCD sought out the quietest vehicles with the lowest fuel consumption and the lowest level of emissions. The Civic Hybrid met all the organisation’s requirements for environmental compatibility and comfortable driving, and it was highly rated for its outstanding quietness.
Sales and Marketing Director of Universal Honda said: “This latest award for Civic Hybrid, together with the JD Power Award where Honda was voted the number one brand in Germany indicates the esteem in which Honda is held in Germany. The results of these international independent surveys are very satisfying and indicate that Honda is indeed at the cutting edge of technological and environmental developments
03-21-2010, 11:41 AM
#668
Honda products in past 10 years have been more expensive. so they sell less.
It has nothing to do with some other cheap brand being better. even if they sell more. You will never find a Honda product cheaper than Hyundai or Toyota anywhere in the world for similar equiped. Honda always remain on Top by perceive quality anywhere in world.
Most of Honda development is in house. otherwise they can quickly and cheaply introduce new products through cooperative projects. it is different kind of industrial philoshpy. Toyota used to have Yamaha engines and they bought Daihatsu and Hino truck division. They become bigger by buying. Honda has cash to expand. but it is pointless to enter into numbers game in third world countries and lower brand image. which is what Hyundai is doing.
It has nothing to do with some other cheap brand being better. even if they sell more. You will never find a Honda product cheaper than Hyundai or Toyota anywhere in the world for similar equiped. Honda always remain on Top by perceive quality anywhere in world.
Most of Honda development is in house. otherwise they can quickly and cheaply introduce new products through cooperative projects. it is different kind of industrial philoshpy. Toyota used to have Yamaha engines and they bought Daihatsu and Hino truck division. They become bigger by buying. Honda has cash to expand. but it is pointless to enter into numbers game in third world countries and lower brand image. which is what Hyundai is doing.
Actually, lack of cash is what is hurting Honda - which is why Honda gave up the push of making Acura a "tier 1" luxury brand (at least for now).
And Toyota, Nissan-Peugeot, etc. are ramping up their game in 3rd world countries (and fastest growing auto markets) like India (note - China is still a 3rd world country and Honda has a significant presence there).
As for being "cheaper" - Acura products have long lagged in price behind Lexus, much less the German makes - and yet, despite the cheaper price, continue to be outsold - w/ the gap increasing over the past couple of years.
Last edited by YEH; 03-21-2010 at 11:43 AM.
03-21-2010, 03:43 PM
#669
Hyundai, as well as Toyota and GM/Ford, have in-house developed 6 spd ATs - Honda doesn't.
Actually, lack of cash is what is hurting Honda - which is why Honda gave up the push of making Acura a "tier 1" luxury brand (at least for now).
And Toyota, Nissan-Peugeot, etc. are ramping up their game in 3rd world countries (and fastest growing auto markets) like India (note - China is still a 3rd world country and Honda has a significant presence there).
As for being "cheaper" - Acura products have long lagged in price behind Lexus, much less the German makes - and yet, despite the cheaper price, continue to be outsold - w/ the gap increasing over the past couple of years.
Actually, lack of cash is what is hurting Honda - which is why Honda gave up the push of making Acura a "tier 1" luxury brand (at least for now).
And Toyota, Nissan-Peugeot, etc. are ramping up their game in 3rd world countries (and fastest growing auto markets) like India (note - China is still a 3rd world country and Honda has a significant presence there).
As for being "cheaper" - Acura products have long lagged in price behind Lexus, much less the German makes - and yet, despite the cheaper price, continue to be outsold - w/ the gap increasing over the past couple of years.
Acura is not a separat brand like Lexus is to Toyota. U can get the same push button start, HDD navig, Advance tech package HID lights in Civic and Accord in rest of world just like Acura. Only difference is SH-AWD but than u can also get in Honda Legend. Lexus and Infiniti is far different wheel base , RWD and engines.
For example in US u can get 6AT and DI engine in Camry and but not in Accord. Even adding all bells and whistles Toyota and Nissan will be cheaper than Honda.
look at another comparision Middleast. Honda Accord has the least features but it is the most expensive. but in ride and rear leg room is the best.
Aurion is equal to Camry. it is 3.5 V6 comparision.
http://www.drivearabia.com/news/2009...bu-dhabi-saudi
Acceleration
3rd: Honda Accord – Even though it is the more technologically-advanced engine, it is saddled with pulling a very large car, and the basic 5-speed automatic gearbox isn’t doing it any favours, leading to a 0-100 kph time of 7.8 seconds in our tests.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – It matched the Altima’s time of 7 seconds in our tests, helped by a 6-speed automatic, but it is limited by a stability control system that cannot be turned off.
1st: Nissan Altima – While we only managed 7 seconds in our tests, we were conservative in our launches and believe that it can be raced harder, thanks to its oddball CVT transmission
Ride Quality
3rd: Nissan Altima – Seems to be sprung more firmly than the other two, so some rough roads feel a bit jittery. Quiet otherwise.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – Has the softest suspension out of the three, so it feels comfortable, but can float up and down a bit too much over large highway bumps.
1st: Honda Accord – Perfect suspension tuning leads to a comfortable ride, but without feeling floaty and without feeling firm either. Engine noise is better isolated than the other two.
Price Value
3rd: Honda Accord – The priciest of the trio. We’ve heard stories where people call up the dealership many times, only to be told a progressively higher price every week. And the dealer keeps blaming the Japanese Yen. Incidentally, the Accord is the only one built in Japan.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – The Camry’s stronger twin. Although not as pricey as the Accord, the Australian-built Aurion’s prices have also gone up very slightly over the months, even though prices are actually supposed to come down instead, due to a weak Australian currency. Options drive up the price even higher.
1st: Nissan Altima – The cheapest of the lot when fully optioned out. Even though Nissan has sneakily increased its price a bit over the past year, it remains a bargain compared to the other two. No doubt, the pricing is competitive because the car is built in the United States, and we here are immune to dollar-value fluctuations. But it has to be said that the Altima also has a bit lower resale value than the other two.
Acceleration
3rd: Honda Accord – Even though it is the more technologically-advanced engine, it is saddled with pulling a very large car, and the basic 5-speed automatic gearbox isn’t doing it any favours, leading to a 0-100 kph time of 7.8 seconds in our tests.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – It matched the Altima’s time of 7 seconds in our tests, helped by a 6-speed automatic, but it is limited by a stability control system that cannot be turned off.
1st: Nissan Altima – While we only managed 7 seconds in our tests, we were conservative in our launches and believe that it can be raced harder, thanks to its oddball CVT transmission
Ride Quality
3rd: Nissan Altima – Seems to be sprung more firmly than the other two, so some rough roads feel a bit jittery. Quiet otherwise.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – Has the softest suspension out of the three, so it feels comfortable, but can float up and down a bit too much over large highway bumps.
1st: Honda Accord – Perfect suspension tuning leads to a comfortable ride, but without feeling floaty and without feeling firm either. Engine noise is better isolated than the other two.
Price Value
3rd: Honda Accord – The priciest of the trio. We’ve heard stories where people call up the dealership many times, only to be told a progressively higher price every week. And the dealer keeps blaming the Japanese Yen. Incidentally, the Accord is the only one built in Japan.
2nd: Toyota Aurion – The Camry’s stronger twin. Although not as pricey as the Accord, the Australian-built Aurion’s prices have also gone up very slightly over the months, even though prices are actually supposed to come down instead, due to a weak Australian currency. Options drive up the price even higher.
1st: Nissan Altima – The cheapest of the lot when fully optioned out. Even though Nissan has sneakily increased its price a bit over the past year, it remains a bargain compared to the other two. No doubt, the pricing is competitive because the car is built in the United States, and we here are immune to dollar-value fluctuations. But it has to be said that the Altima also has a bit lower resale value than the other two.
Civic came on top in Fleet reliability for highest mileage. and there is Honda Fit in lineup too.
http://www.giftsinsurance.com/news/e...liability.html
The reliability survey undertaken by Fleet News and financial consultants Grant Thornton asks leasing companies to assess vehicles' reliability according to the number of breakdowns per model on their fleet. The majority of the surveyed vehicles are used for business and cover high mileages so the survey is regarded as the most representative of real-world reliability.
It shows that the Honda Civic and BMW 3 Series The BMW 3 Series is an entry-level luxury / compact executive car manufactured by the German automaker BMW since May 1975. It was the successor to the 2002 coupe. The 3 Series was for some time the smallest car line manufactured by BMW (exempting the BMW-owned MINI), although that are the least likely to break down, followed by the Honda Jazz, Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class, MINI, Toyota Avensis and Volkswagen Golf.
The reliability survey undertaken by Fleet News and financial consultants Grant Thornton asks leasing companies to assess vehicles' reliability according to the number of breakdowns per model on their fleet. The majority of the surveyed vehicles are used for business and cover high mileages so the survey is regarded as the most representative of real-world reliability.
It shows that the Honda Civic and BMW 3 Series The BMW 3 Series is an entry-level luxury / compact executive car manufactured by the German automaker BMW since May 1975. It was the successor to the 2002 coupe. The 3 Series was for some time the smallest car line manufactured by BMW (exempting the BMW-owned MINI), although that are the least likely to break down, followed by the Honda Jazz, Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class, MINI, Toyota Avensis and Volkswagen Golf.
03-21-2010, 06:18 PM
#670
hail to the victors
Jesus, stop posting irrelevant links. we all know honda makes great cars. some great, some good, some so-so. but most honda/acuras are good to very good. that's not the issue here. the issue is that honda is no longer head and shoulders above competitors. the playing field now has more than 2 players.
also, not every hondas are the most expensive in its segment. malibu costs more than accord, prius costs more than insight. sienna costs more than odyssey, and civic isn't the most expensive small cars. and doesn't matter how much more honda charges. at the end of the day, Honda competes with toyota, hyundai, ford, and nissan of the world. Honda is not BMW or MB. they are mainstream. they are volume sellers. if they are confident enough to charge more than toyota, ford, and hyundai good for them. but i wouldn't be too confident since honda never really gained market share while other major players gotten better every year. honda to me was stuck in the 2nd gear for a while. to get out of this funk, honda needs to get back to what they know best. delivering us good engineered cars with good non-offensive design is a start. i want the good looking hondas/acuras back. also, i want RL to be competitive. people don't even buy RL anymore. even hyundai sells more genesis than RL and it's friggin hyundai! I always liked legend. first gen RL wasn't too bad. but just saw RL few days ago(rarely see them anymore), and it made me very sad. you can't possibly compete against germans, lexus, and infiniti with cars like RL. and now honda knows that acura is nowhere near 1st-tier, so they are repositioning the brand to 'smart luxury'
what? did they just say smart luxury? that got me worried and made me sadder. all they had to do was design the RL right. TL/TSX was great until they messed with success. MDX is still good, and RDX isn't half bad. but ZDX was moronic. it is so frustrating. it drives me crazy. i wanted my next car to be acura.
yes, there will always be honda homers like you. like all other brands, there are loyalists. My buddy is VW loyalists even after 2 electronic gremlin infested jettas. i once was very loyal to honda/acura. but I opened my eyes and looked around brands like hyundai and even Ford. just 10 years ago I swore that i would never buy a domestic or korean cars. but things changed. sure i still love all Germans, but i have family and house comes first. so i'm more interested in the mainstream than luxury today.
there will be many people like myself that who will look else where if honda/acura continues to give us TL/CRZ/insight/ZDX/crosstour like disappointments. Read any reviews on these cars, and most likely they will say something like 'if you can look past the design... you might like it...' comments. i know these cars aren't aztek ugly, but Jesus, honda/acura never used to offend anyone.
I recently sat on Crosstour. it summarizes Honda's last 3 years. It's impossible to sit in the back without your head touching the roof, visibility is the worst i can remember, and front 4 grill design is extremely awkward. worst part is the rear design which gave me a very strange vibe. only decent thing about this was the accord interior. was Crosstour necessary? was that a financial decision? i don't know. but i'm saddened by it because most likely it will scare alot of new buyers.
on a bright side, companies like Hyundai/Ford continues to listen to consumers and make cars that we want. Hyundai is considering R-spec Genesis. soon they will give us Veloster(will have a new name) and it won't be as wimpy as CRZ. new Ford mustang v6 gets 19/31 mpg.
when will honda ever listen to us? i've done defending Honda 2 years ago. maybe you should too.
also, not every hondas are the most expensive in its segment. malibu costs more than accord, prius costs more than insight. sienna costs more than odyssey, and civic isn't the most expensive small cars. and doesn't matter how much more honda charges. at the end of the day, Honda competes with toyota, hyundai, ford, and nissan of the world. Honda is not BMW or MB. they are mainstream. they are volume sellers. if they are confident enough to charge more than toyota, ford, and hyundai good for them. but i wouldn't be too confident since honda never really gained market share while other major players gotten better every year. honda to me was stuck in the 2nd gear for a while. to get out of this funk, honda needs to get back to what they know best. delivering us good engineered cars with good non-offensive design is a start. i want the good looking hondas/acuras back. also, i want RL to be competitive. people don't even buy RL anymore. even hyundai sells more genesis than RL and it's friggin hyundai! I always liked legend. first gen RL wasn't too bad. but just saw RL few days ago(rarely see them anymore), and it made me very sad. you can't possibly compete against germans, lexus, and infiniti with cars like RL. and now honda knows that acura is nowhere near 1st-tier, so they are repositioning the brand to 'smart luxury'
what? did they just say smart luxury? that got me worried and made me sadder. all they had to do was design the RL right. TL/TSX was great until they messed with success. MDX is still good, and RDX isn't half bad. but ZDX was moronic. it is so frustrating. it drives me crazy. i wanted my next car to be acura.
yes, there will always be honda homers like you. like all other brands, there are loyalists. My buddy is VW loyalists even after 2 electronic gremlin infested jettas. i once was very loyal to honda/acura. but I opened my eyes and looked around brands like hyundai and even Ford. just 10 years ago I swore that i would never buy a domestic or korean cars. but things changed. sure i still love all Germans, but i have family and house comes first. so i'm more interested in the mainstream than luxury today.
there will be many people like myself that who will look else where if honda/acura continues to give us TL/CRZ/insight/ZDX/crosstour like disappointments. Read any reviews on these cars, and most likely they will say something like 'if you can look past the design... you might like it...' comments. i know these cars aren't aztek ugly, but Jesus, honda/acura never used to offend anyone.
I recently sat on Crosstour. it summarizes Honda's last 3 years. It's impossible to sit in the back without your head touching the roof, visibility is the worst i can remember, and front 4 grill design is extremely awkward. worst part is the rear design which gave me a very strange vibe. only decent thing about this was the accord interior. was Crosstour necessary? was that a financial decision? i don't know. but i'm saddened by it because most likely it will scare alot of new buyers.
on a bright side, companies like Hyundai/Ford continues to listen to consumers and make cars that we want. Hyundai is considering R-spec Genesis. soon they will give us Veloster(will have a new name) and it won't be as wimpy as CRZ. new Ford mustang v6 gets 19/31 mpg.
when will honda ever listen to us? i've done defending Honda 2 years ago. maybe you should too.
Last edited by chungkopi; 03-21-2010 at 06:21 PM.
03-21-2010, 06:27 PM
#671
hail to the victors
Hyundai, as well as Toyota and GM/Ford, have in-house developed 6 spd ATs - Honda doesn't.
Actually, lack of cash is what is hurting Honda - which is why Honda gave up the push of making Acura a "tier 1" luxury brand (at least for now).
And Toyota, Nissan-Peugeot, etc. are ramping up their game in 3rd world countries (and fastest growing auto markets) like India (note - China is still a 3rd world country and Honda has a significant presence there).
As for being "cheaper" - Acura products have long lagged in price behind Lexus, much less the German makes - and yet, despite the cheaper price, continue to be outsold - w/ the gap increasing over the past couple of years.
Actually, lack of cash is what is hurting Honda - which is why Honda gave up the push of making Acura a "tier 1" luxury brand (at least for now).
And Toyota, Nissan-Peugeot, etc. are ramping up their game in 3rd world countries (and fastest growing auto markets) like India (note - China is still a 3rd world country and Honda has a significant presence there).
As for being "cheaper" - Acura products have long lagged in price behind Lexus, much less the German makes - and yet, despite the cheaper price, continue to be outsold - w/ the gap increasing over the past couple of years.
hyundai is developing 8 spd and should be available by next year on both genesis and equus. it almost feels like honda/acura stopped trying.
03-21-2010, 09:15 PM
#672
Jesus, stop posting irrelevant links. we all know honda makes great cars. some great, some good, some so-so. but most honda/acuras are good to very good. that's not the issue here. the issue is that honda is no longer head and shoulders above competitors. the playing field now has more than 2 players.
also, not every hondas are the most expensive in its segment. malibu costs more than accord, prius costs more than insight. sienna costs more than odyssey, and civic isn't the most expensive small cars. and doesn't matter how much more honda charges. at the end of the day, Honda competes with toyota, hyundai, ford, and nissan of the world. Honda is not BMW or MB. they are mainstream. they are volume sellers. if they are confident enough to charge more than toyota, ford, and hyundai good for them. but i wouldn't be too confident since honda never really gained market share while other major players gotten better every year. honda to me was stuck in the 2nd gear for a while. to get out of this funk, honda needs to get back to what they know best. delivering us good engineered cars with good non-offensive design is a start. i want the good looking hondas/acuras back. also, i want RL to be competitive. people don't even buy RL anymore. even hyundai sells more genesis than RL and it's friggin hyundai! I always liked legend. first gen RL wasn't too bad. but just saw RL few days ago(rarely see them anymore), and it made me very sad. you can't possibly compete against germans, lexus, and infiniti with cars like RL. and now honda knows that acura is nowhere near 1st-tier, so they are repositioning the brand to 'smart luxury'
what? did they just say smart luxury? that got me worried and made me sadder. all they had to do was design the RL right. TL/TSX was great until they messed with success. MDX is still good, and RDX isn't half bad. but ZDX was moronic. it is so frustrating. it drives me crazy. i wanted my next car to be acura.
yes, there will always be honda homers like you. like all other brands, there are loyalists. My buddy is VW loyalists even after 2 electronic gremlin infested jettas. i once was very loyal to honda/acura. but I opened my eyes and looked around brands like hyundai and even Ford. just 10 years ago I swore that i would never buy a domestic or korean cars. but things changed. sure i still love all Germans, but i have family and house comes first. so i'm more interested in the mainstream than luxury today.
there will be many people like myself that who will look else where if honda/acura continues to give us TL/CRZ/insight/ZDX/crosstour like disappointments. Read any reviews on these cars, and most likely they will say something like 'if you can look past the design... you might like it...' comments. i know these cars aren't aztek ugly, but Jesus, honda/acura never used to offend anyone.
I recently sat on Crosstour. it summarizes Honda's last 3 years. It's impossible to sit in the back without your head touching the roof, visibility is the worst i can remember, and front 4 grill design is extremely awkward. worst part is the rear design which gave me a very strange vibe. only decent thing about this was the accord interior. was Crosstour necessary? was that a financial decision? i don't know. but i'm saddened by it because most likely it will scare alot of new buyers.
on a bright side, companies like Hyundai/Ford continues to listen to consumers and make cars that we want. Hyundai is considering R-spec Genesis. soon they will give us Veloster(will have a new name) and it won't be as wimpy as CRZ. new Ford mustang v6 gets 19/31 mpg.
when will honda ever listen to us? i've done defending Honda 2 years ago. maybe you should too.
also, not every hondas are the most expensive in its segment. malibu costs more than accord, prius costs more than insight. sienna costs more than odyssey, and civic isn't the most expensive small cars. and doesn't matter how much more honda charges. at the end of the day, Honda competes with toyota, hyundai, ford, and nissan of the world. Honda is not BMW or MB. they are mainstream. they are volume sellers. if they are confident enough to charge more than toyota, ford, and hyundai good for them. but i wouldn't be too confident since honda never really gained market share while other major players gotten better every year. honda to me was stuck in the 2nd gear for a while. to get out of this funk, honda needs to get back to what they know best. delivering us good engineered cars with good non-offensive design is a start. i want the good looking hondas/acuras back. also, i want RL to be competitive. people don't even buy RL anymore. even hyundai sells more genesis than RL and it's friggin hyundai! I always liked legend. first gen RL wasn't too bad. but just saw RL few days ago(rarely see them anymore), and it made me very sad. you can't possibly compete against germans, lexus, and infiniti with cars like RL. and now honda knows that acura is nowhere near 1st-tier, so they are repositioning the brand to 'smart luxury'
what? did they just say smart luxury? that got me worried and made me sadder. all they had to do was design the RL right. TL/TSX was great until they messed with success. MDX is still good, and RDX isn't half bad. but ZDX was moronic. it is so frustrating. it drives me crazy. i wanted my next car to be acura.
yes, there will always be honda homers like you. like all other brands, there are loyalists. My buddy is VW loyalists even after 2 electronic gremlin infested jettas. i once was very loyal to honda/acura. but I opened my eyes and looked around brands like hyundai and even Ford. just 10 years ago I swore that i would never buy a domestic or korean cars. but things changed. sure i still love all Germans, but i have family and house comes first. so i'm more interested in the mainstream than luxury today.
there will be many people like myself that who will look else where if honda/acura continues to give us TL/CRZ/insight/ZDX/crosstour like disappointments. Read any reviews on these cars, and most likely they will say something like 'if you can look past the design... you might like it...' comments. i know these cars aren't aztek ugly, but Jesus, honda/acura never used to offend anyone.
I recently sat on Crosstour. it summarizes Honda's last 3 years. It's impossible to sit in the back without your head touching the roof, visibility is the worst i can remember, and front 4 grill design is extremely awkward. worst part is the rear design which gave me a very strange vibe. only decent thing about this was the accord interior. was Crosstour necessary? was that a financial decision? i don't know. but i'm saddened by it because most likely it will scare alot of new buyers.
on a bright side, companies like Hyundai/Ford continues to listen to consumers and make cars that we want. Hyundai is considering R-spec Genesis. soon they will give us Veloster(will have a new name) and it won't be as wimpy as CRZ. new Ford mustang v6 gets 19/31 mpg.
when will honda ever listen to us? i've done defending Honda 2 years ago. maybe you should too.
Insight is lower grade car than Prius from engine to tech features. It does not compete in same segement with Prius. Even HCH is lower grade by hybrid and engine performance. USDM Honda Accord and Civic are lower grade than there other counterparts and uses lower power engines.
I guess u have seen newer tech in Sienna that Odyseey lacks. on World Wide basis Honda makes the most expensive and the least customize cars. and it is only the brand image alone that jusfity its price. It is because this high brand image. Honda philosphy is pretty conservative of not too much experimenting with newer tech and give the least options to consumer.
03-21-2010, 09:49 PM
#673
Safety Car
can the mod ban these people if they stray away from "sonata" here... i know there are mute button, but i think it's enough pages of rambling about hyundai this nissan that and honda this and toyota that
we're talking about new sonata here.. geez
we're talking about new sonata here.. geez
03-22-2010, 07:24 AM
#675
I have 3 ppl on ignore
03-31-2010, 12:57 PM
#680
Senior Moderator
sonata 2.0T - 274hp 269tq - 22/34 mpg
Is it me or is that HWY figure very impressive?And put that engine into the Genesis Coupe please.
Last edited by dom; 03-31-2010 at 12:59 PM.