Hyundai: Sonata News
11-19-2009, 07:55 PM
#481
2G TLX-S
.....
Will Honda come out with a GDI engine? I would probably bet on it. Will it outpower the Theta GDI? Possible. Honda is known for its engineering and engines. They know what they are doing. But Hyundai isn't far behind, in fact, getting into the new technology arena faster.
.02
Not only that Hyundai isn't far behind, I think Hyundai has already overtaken Honda in some new technology areas, as demonstrated by the Genesis sedans and Genesis sport cars.
11-20-2009, 06:54 AM
#482
Race Director
^ technology for technolgy sake is not always the answer. If Honda can deliver competitive performance and economy with its current technology then why spend the money on new technology? Hyundai needs to do things like this (DI engines) to establish itself - Honda did that 20 years ago. Details like this are meaningless for 90+% of the buying public. They only care about price, performance, economy, features and looks.
11-20-2009, 09:58 AM
#483
^ technology for technolgy sake is not always the answer. If Honda can deliver competitive performance and economy with its current technology then why spend the money on new technology? Hyundai needs to do things like this (DI engines) to establish itself - Honda did that 20 years ago. Details like this are meaningless for 90+% of the buying public. They only care about price, performance, economy, features and looks.
perform worse than most competitors
are less economic than they have ever been
still have great features
and looks are subjective. unless its acura
Hyundai>honda right now
11-20-2009, 02:39 PM
#484
It is not independently tested for refinement, CO2 levels, fuel economy, long term maintiance, weight of the engine., hence dynamics of car handling depends. All with top safety rating for 3600lbs sedan.
So it needs very deep analysis. Just look at Euro Accord Type S. Remember Fleet cars/Auto car only tested EX IDTEC on standard suspension. . Type S pretty close to BMW 3/A4 in handling. even the IS-220D couldnt achieved that refinement.
just saying that Euro 5 complaint is not enough. torque/bhp does not tell the story. every one can produce bhp and torque.
this was in 2003
So it needs very deep analysis. Just look at Euro Accord Type S. Remember Fleet cars/Auto car only tested EX IDTEC on standard suspension. . Type S pretty close to BMW 3/A4 in handling. even the IS-220D couldnt achieved that refinement.
just saying that Euro 5 complaint is not enough. torque/bhp does not tell the story. every one can produce bhp and torque.
this was in 2003
Wait, let me see if I get this right.
Your initial argument was all based on the fact that the GDI Theta could barely match a years-old K24 in terms of power. I posted numbers of the I4s currently available in the U.S.-spec Accord in response. Then you said only few companies can create diesel engines on their own. So I posted an article in response.
So at first, it was about power. When I show you power, now it's irrelevant? It's more about refinement? You are discrediting and questioning the article I posted, but you except us to take your article at face value?
Dude, I'm not here to prove that Hyundai is better than Honda/Acura. I'm not a Hyundai fanboy. I really have no desire but to have a fact-based civilized debate.
Hyundai sells LOTS of diesels in Korea and abroad. They are very refined. Just because you don't see Hyundai diesels here, it doesn't mean they don't have any, or that they are behind their competitors. They also have LPG hybrid. They are also developing Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles. Their powertrain R&D is very much on par, if not ahead, of its competitors.
That is all.
11-20-2009, 02:55 PM
#485
Safety Car
like i said.. sonata is more of camry competitor..
tsx and euro accord are sports sedan whereas sonata is family sedan
and whoever compared tsx gauges against sonata one.. LOL
and when you compare sonata against camry or US accord, not one car that's going to win in every aspect..
shit, comparing gauges???? are you serious????
tsx and euro accord are sports sedan whereas sonata is family sedan
and whoever compared tsx gauges against sonata one.. LOL
and when you compare sonata against camry or US accord, not one car that's going to win in every aspect..
shit, comparing gauges???? are you serious????
11-20-2009, 09:09 PM
#486
Wait, let me see if I get this right.
Your initial argument was all based on the fact that the GDI Theta could barely match a years-old K24 in terms of power. I posted numbers of the I4s currently available in the U.S.-spec Accord in response. Then you said only few companies can create diesel engines on their own. So I posted an article in response.
So at first, it was about power. When I show you power, now it's irrelevant? It's more about refinement? You are discrediting and questioning the article I posted, but you except us to take your article at face value?
Dude, I'm not here to prove that Hyundai is better than Honda/Acura. I'm not a Hyundai fanboy. I really have no desire but to have a fact-based civilized debate.
Hyundai sells LOTS of diesels in Korea and abroad. They are very refined. Just because you don't see Hyundai diesels here, it doesn't mean they don't have any, or that they are behind their competitors. They also have LPG hybrid. They are also developing Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles. Their powertrain R&D is very much on par, if not ahead, of its competitors.
That is all.
Your initial argument was all based on the fact that the GDI Theta could barely match a years-old K24 in terms of power. I posted numbers of the I4s currently available in the U.S.-spec Accord in response. Then you said only few companies can create diesel engines on their own. So I posted an article in response.
So at first, it was about power. When I show you power, now it's irrelevant? It's more about refinement? You are discrediting and questioning the article I posted, but you except us to take your article at face value?
Dude, I'm not here to prove that Hyundai is better than Honda/Acura. I'm not a Hyundai fanboy. I really have no desire but to have a fact-based civilized debate.
Hyundai sells LOTS of diesels in Korea and abroad. They are very refined. Just because you don't see Hyundai diesels here, it doesn't mean they don't have any, or that they are behind their competitors. They also have LPG hybrid. They are also developing Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles. Their powertrain R&D is very much on par, if not ahead, of its competitors.
That is all.
PS. Japan and Korea are very very different countries. Japan developed every thing by itself. Korea copy and learn from others. They can develop everything but with outside help from Space programe to semiconductors.
You see they are laughing at Genesis. Can imagine what they are going to describe Sonata. once it is thrown into handling and high speed refinement contests.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...4.6-V8/232926/
Go faster and the picture deteriorates though. The Genesis’ consistency of steering weight and precision disintegrates without too much provocation, kicking back nastily over surface disturbances, and its stability control system intervenes with all the subtlety of an angry customs official before it allows you to learn too much about the car’s limit handling behaviour. This is clearly not a car for particularly keen drivers
This car is very well-built, well-appointed, generously kitted out and much more refined than you’d credit considering that it’s Hyundai’s first proper luxury saloon. It’s nothing original, of course; in lots of ways it’s a pretty slavish copy of a Lexus LS.
Go faster and the picture deteriorates though. The Genesis’ consistency of steering weight and precision disintegrates without too much provocation, kicking back nastily over surface disturbances, and its stability control system intervenes with all the subtlety of an angry customs official before it allows you to learn too much about the car’s limit handling behaviour. This is clearly not a car for particularly keen drivers
This car is very well-built, well-appointed, generously kitted out and much more refined than you’d credit considering that it’s Hyundai’s first proper luxury saloon. It’s nothing original, of course; in lots of ways it’s a pretty slavish copy of a Lexus LS.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...TEC-EX/218126/
Truth is, this engine is not sufficiently refined to make the Civic as relaxing as it should be on a long run. Unless you reach for the volume control, engine noise is a constant and irritating companion at a steady 80mph, and provides as good a reason as any for finding the extra £1500 that buys the diesel engine and the dramatically enhanced refinement it offers
Strange to be considering diesel over petrol for reasons other than economy and emissions, but the 2.2-litre diesel is not just more frugal and less polluting than the 1.8-litre petrol, it’s also quieter and quicker.
Truth is, this engine is not sufficiently refined to make the Civic as relaxing as it should be on a long run. Unless you reach for the volume control, engine noise is a constant and irritating companion at a steady 80mph, and provides as good a reason as any for finding the extra £1500 that buys the diesel engine and the dramatically enhanced refinement it offers
Strange to be considering diesel over petrol for reasons other than economy and emissions, but the 2.2-litre diesel is not just more frugal and less polluting than the 1.8-litre petrol, it’s also quieter and quicker.
These are the things that make a difference. Not just bhp/torque numbers. Everyone can produce bhp. First direct ignition were from Mitsubishis in mid 90s.
NVH is improved with the use of an auto-tensioner for the auxiliary belt drive system so that belt tension is stabilized, with the variations in tension automatically regulated in accordance with load. The engine also has a new patterned piston coating is claimed to be the first in the world and a proprietary Honda technology. The shape around the piston skirt is modified to reduce both piston slap noise and friction. The pattern also improves oil retention which reduces friction even more
Both the manual and automatic transmissions available for the new Honda City in our region are 5-speed units. Other markets such as Japan will likely get the CVT transmission while Europe gets a 6-speed i-SHIFT automated manual transmission.
Both the manual and automatic transmissions available for the new Honda City in our region are 5-speed units. Other markets such as Japan will likely get the CVT transmission while Europe gets a 6-speed i-SHIFT automated manual transmission.
11-21-2009, 05:03 PM
#487
Race Director
The performance is on par with competitors - HP alone is not the only factor. Plus for most folks the criteria for performance is subjective and is a "good enough" kind of decision.
For most Hondas you just can't compare sticker mileage numbers. I don't know how they do it but if you look through the mileage results from most owners, Hondas seem to get better real world mileage than the sticker numbers suggest.
Features are probably no better/worse than the competition - feature wise, the mid size sedan market seems to be a commodity item.
I totally agree on looks - the looks alone is the main reason that drove me away from current gen Accord and virtually the entire Acura lineup.
11-22-2009, 08:34 AM
#489
Hyundai is one of the few companies with its own proprietary 6-speed and plus transmission. They are now working on an 8-speed. PROPRIETARY.
PS. Japan and Korea are very very different countries. Japan developed every thing by itself. Korea copy and learn from others. They can develop everything but with outside help from Space programe to semiconductors.
You see they are laughing at Genesis. Can imagine what they are going to describe Sonata. once it is thrown into handling and high speed refinement contests.
Oh and do yourself another favor and learn more about Hyundai. Shipbuilding, construction, heavy machinery, financial services, department stores, electronics, communications, etc, etc. Hyundai is into everything. Hyundai is just now starting to get into the U.S. market.
But it's okay that you are an ignorant fan boy of Japan and badmouthing Hyundai and Korea. Your father or grandfather did the same about Japan when the war was over and Honda/Toyota first came to the U.S.
Except that we never killed any Americans or enslaved a whole another country.
Last edited by Pure Adrenaline; 11-22-2009 at 08:37 AM.
11-22-2009, 10:57 AM
#490
Right. Now Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Chrysler have a joint venture at Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance, which is based on the Hyundai engine. That's right. The little company out of a peninsula in Asia used to buy engines from other companies. Now Hyundai is SELLING its engines to those companies and more.
Hyundai is one of the few companies with its own proprietary 6-speed and plus transmission. They are now working on an 8-speed. PROPRIETARY.
I don't know whether to laugh at you, be offended or get upset. Spoken like a true ignorant idiot who has ZERO KNOWLEDGE on how Japan survived following the World War II. Ditto on Korea's technological advances, too. Do yourself a favor and learn more about Japan and Korea before you spew out bullshit.
They are not laughing at the Genesis. Toyota and Honda's CHAIRMEN have publicly recognized Hyundai as their #1 threat. Not GM, VW, Ford or any of the conglomerate giants, but Hyundai-Kia. Year to date, Hyundai-Kia is the 4th largest in the world.
Oh and do yourself another favor and learn more about Hyundai. Shipbuilding, construction, heavy machinery, financial services, department stores, electronics, communications, etc, etc. Hyundai is into everything. Hyundai is just now starting to get into the U.S. market.
But it's okay that you are an ignorant fan boy of Japan and badmouthing Hyundai and Korea. Your father or grandfather did the same about Japan when the war was over and Honda/Toyota first came to the U.S.
Except that we never killed any Americans or enslaved a whole another country.
Hyundai is one of the few companies with its own proprietary 6-speed and plus transmission. They are now working on an 8-speed. PROPRIETARY.
I don't know whether to laugh at you, be offended or get upset. Spoken like a true ignorant idiot who has ZERO KNOWLEDGE on how Japan survived following the World War II. Ditto on Korea's technological advances, too. Do yourself a favor and learn more about Japan and Korea before you spew out bullshit.
They are not laughing at the Genesis. Toyota and Honda's CHAIRMEN have publicly recognized Hyundai as their #1 threat. Not GM, VW, Ford or any of the conglomerate giants, but Hyundai-Kia. Year to date, Hyundai-Kia is the 4th largest in the world.
Oh and do yourself another favor and learn more about Hyundai. Shipbuilding, construction, heavy machinery, financial services, department stores, electronics, communications, etc, etc. Hyundai is into everything. Hyundai is just now starting to get into the U.S. market.
But it's okay that you are an ignorant fan boy of Japan and badmouthing Hyundai and Korea. Your father or grandfather did the same about Japan when the war was over and Honda/Toyota first came to the U.S.
Except that we never killed any Americans or enslaved a whole another country.
Korean product threat is more due to cheapness of product not due to superior product. and Korean had taken external help in each and everything they built it. This comparision is not even funny. you are comparing low level stuff in industrail chain. where is Korean Hybrids like Toyota/Lexus?. they are always behind. 8 Speed transmission is not a big deal. Even Russians at have designed it. what Japanese are doing is doing niche stuff so there is no competition. and I am waiting for Korean legend like Toyota Land Cruiser/Nissan Patrol.
11-22-2009, 05:05 PM
#493
Punk Rocker
Surely it is Korean that are supplying composites to Boeing 787. It is Korean that have developed first operational AESA radar (Ask Raytheon, Northrop, Lockheed). It is Korean that discovered the nano tech. I am not even going heavy Nuclear reactor stuff. what Korean is doing. Chinese/Taiwanese can also do in due time. It is not a threat.
Korean product threat is more due to cheapness of product not due to superior product. and Korean had taken external help in each and everything they built it. This comparision is not even funny. you are comparing low level stuff in industrail chain. where is Korean Hybrids like Toyota/Lexus?. they are always behind. 8 Speed transmission is not a big deal. Even Russians at have designed it. what Japanese are doing is doing niche stuff so there is no competition. and I am waiting for Korean legend like Toyota Land Cruiser/Nissan Patrol.
Korean product threat is more due to cheapness of product not due to superior product. and Korean had taken external help in each and everything they built it. This comparision is not even funny. you are comparing low level stuff in industrail chain. where is Korean Hybrids like Toyota/Lexus?. they are always behind. 8 Speed transmission is not a big deal. Even Russians at have designed it. what Japanese are doing is doing niche stuff so there is no competition. and I am waiting for Korean legend like Toyota Land Cruiser/Nissan Patrol.
Last edited by majin ssj eric; 11-22-2009 at 05:08 PM.
11-22-2009, 10:07 PM
#494
Heh, I'll raise you one LOL (to nobody in particular, but if you feel guilty, feel free to raise your hand)
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11-25-2009, 10:16 PM
#499
It looks like the company is sending me to Los Angeles for the auto show next week. We will be officially unveiling the U.S.-spec YFa Sonata there.
I will have a constructor and/or press pass, so I will try to snap some shots of cool cars and post them up for you guys.
I will have a constructor and/or press pass, so I will try to snap some shots of cool cars and post them up for you guys.
11-26-2009, 07:36 AM
#501
Race Director
11-26-2009, 07:51 AM
#502
Senior Moderator
^ I see where your going with that. Interestingly enough I guess I've never owned one of them magic Honda's that everyone else seems to get, that gets better MPG than estimated.
11-26-2009, 08:33 PM
#503
Race Director
^ I just filled up my 06 TSX - 31MPG in mostly suburban driving. The only thing I can go by is my experience and some other anecdotal evidence.
Mid 30s MPG on the highway from any of the current crop of mid sized sedan is the norm. The city number and real world is what usually sets them apart - but even there the diff is probably minimal - maybe 2MPG between all of them. The 6 AT will help. It is interesting to see that the list includes the Buick with a DI engine.
Mid 30s MPG on the highway from any of the current crop of mid sized sedan is the norm. The city number and real world is what usually sets them apart - but even there the diff is probably minimal - maybe 2MPG between all of them. The 6 AT will help. It is interesting to see that the list includes the Buick with a DI engine.
Last edited by biker; 11-26-2009 at 08:36 PM.
11-29-2009, 05:05 PM
#504
I feel the need...
11-29-2009, 07:35 PM
#505
Mazda3 and Honda Civic in
Cant wait to see these new hyundai's on the street
12-27-2009, 04:35 PM
#506
I just arrived in Burke, Virginia last night. I'm on a trip with my girlfriend to visit her family here and also make a stop in D.C. since I've never been.
I was able to snag the only YFa Sonata in the fleet for my trip and drove about 800 miles yesterday.
Ride/Comfort -
Very comfortable. The seats were cloth since this is a base model pre-production prototype, but the surface never gave me any problems. It ventilated well and I had no problem finding a comfortable position right away. But after about 700 miles, I started having backaches; about the same as driving in my TL-S. I'm the type of person who will shoot from point A to point B as fast as possible with as few stops as possible, so I didn't really take the time for a break to stretch out and stuff. So I don't think the backaches were really contributed by the seat; rather because I was in the same position for hours at a time.
Handling -
The car rides very compliant and smooth on the interstate. It soaks up bumps very well, and unless the pavement got really bad, the chassis felt composed. The only gripe I had initially was the heavy feel in the steering wheel while turning, but I got accustomed to it soon and it was no problem.
Base model comes with steelies and hubcaps (yeah, I know) but it handled pretty well. If it had the bigger alloy wheels with lower-profile tires, it would've no doubt handled much better. But for a sub-$20,000 family sedan, I was pretty satisfied with its handling even with the steelies. The brakes are EXCELLENT. The initial bite is strong and has a linear application. It will come to a stop very quickly without drama.
Interior -
Soft ambient blue lighting was very easy on the eyes during night time driving. The fit and finish is extremely good and I love the layout. Just about everything is where it should be and within easy reach. Nothing malfunctioned even though it's a pre-production non-sale-able unit. XM is standard, and as I do not have one in my personal car, it was a joy. It's a non-navigation car so the interface wasn't as good as the NFa navi (the one that was just discontinued), but that's like comparing apples to oranges. The YFa navi will be a very good unit and has much better interface.
The tachometer and the speedometer gauges enclose a fuel meter and engine temp meter. They are digital and very nicely designed. Bottom line, I just love the instrument panel.
The instrument panel is integrated with the steering wheel controls. It is buttons galore starting with cruise control, audio control, bluetooth with speech command, trip/reset.
The trip/reset displays instant and average fuel consumption, engine timer (how long it's been running), and other usual standard functions. The unique feature is Eco drive, and when you turn it on, the green Eco button lights up to show you that you are driving conservatively. It turns off when you are going too fast or giving too much gas. It's very neat and challenges you to drive safely and conservatively to save fuel. It is overriden and disabled when you are in manumatic mode or have the instant fuel consumption meter on display.
Speaking of fuel consumption...
Engine -
This car has the 2.4L GDI engine. Originally, I was worried about the high-pressure ticking noise of the GDI system on earlier prototypes, but it wasn't an issue on this one. It's relatively quiet and has good power, using it efficiently paired up with the 6-speed auto transmission (6-speed manual also available). The transmission, when left in fully automatic mode, performs flawlessly. It will grab downshifts precisely when needed, and the upshifts are almost undetectable. It is very smooth. Manumatic input is performed pretty quickly. One of my biggest pet peeves with the NFa was the delayed shift, but it's solved on the YFa.
I averaged about 83 mph and achieved 34.2 mpg overall on 87 octane. I would say that's pretty darn impressive and pretty much accomplished what's claimed on the charts in the previous posts. If I had averaged 75 mph like a normal human being, I have no doubt that I would've gotten above 35 mpg.
Room -
The interior is classified as a large sedan and is very spacious and comfortable as I mentioned above. The rear seats will accommodate two adults very comfortably. The trunk swallowed all of our luggage without a sweat. But since we are going shopping tomorrow, we might have to store some stuff in the backseats, too. Haha.
That's all I have for now. I didn't bother taking pics since the cat's out of the bag. If you have any questions about the car, feel free to ask!
I was able to snag the only YFa Sonata in the fleet for my trip and drove about 800 miles yesterday.
Ride/Comfort -
Very comfortable. The seats were cloth since this is a base model pre-production prototype, but the surface never gave me any problems. It ventilated well and I had no problem finding a comfortable position right away. But after about 700 miles, I started having backaches; about the same as driving in my TL-S. I'm the type of person who will shoot from point A to point B as fast as possible with as few stops as possible, so I didn't really take the time for a break to stretch out and stuff. So I don't think the backaches were really contributed by the seat; rather because I was in the same position for hours at a time.
Handling -
The car rides very compliant and smooth on the interstate. It soaks up bumps very well, and unless the pavement got really bad, the chassis felt composed. The only gripe I had initially was the heavy feel in the steering wheel while turning, but I got accustomed to it soon and it was no problem.
Base model comes with steelies and hubcaps (yeah, I know) but it handled pretty well. If it had the bigger alloy wheels with lower-profile tires, it would've no doubt handled much better. But for a sub-$20,000 family sedan, I was pretty satisfied with its handling even with the steelies. The brakes are EXCELLENT. The initial bite is strong and has a linear application. It will come to a stop very quickly without drama.
Interior -
Soft ambient blue lighting was very easy on the eyes during night time driving. The fit and finish is extremely good and I love the layout. Just about everything is where it should be and within easy reach. Nothing malfunctioned even though it's a pre-production non-sale-able unit. XM is standard, and as I do not have one in my personal car, it was a joy. It's a non-navigation car so the interface wasn't as good as the NFa navi (the one that was just discontinued), but that's like comparing apples to oranges. The YFa navi will be a very good unit and has much better interface.
The tachometer and the speedometer gauges enclose a fuel meter and engine temp meter. They are digital and very nicely designed. Bottom line, I just love the instrument panel.
The instrument panel is integrated with the steering wheel controls. It is buttons galore starting with cruise control, audio control, bluetooth with speech command, trip/reset.
The trip/reset displays instant and average fuel consumption, engine timer (how long it's been running), and other usual standard functions. The unique feature is Eco drive, and when you turn it on, the green Eco button lights up to show you that you are driving conservatively. It turns off when you are going too fast or giving too much gas. It's very neat and challenges you to drive safely and conservatively to save fuel. It is overriden and disabled when you are in manumatic mode or have the instant fuel consumption meter on display.
Speaking of fuel consumption...
Engine -
This car has the 2.4L GDI engine. Originally, I was worried about the high-pressure ticking noise of the GDI system on earlier prototypes, but it wasn't an issue on this one. It's relatively quiet and has good power, using it efficiently paired up with the 6-speed auto transmission (6-speed manual also available). The transmission, when left in fully automatic mode, performs flawlessly. It will grab downshifts precisely when needed, and the upshifts are almost undetectable. It is very smooth. Manumatic input is performed pretty quickly. One of my biggest pet peeves with the NFa was the delayed shift, but it's solved on the YFa.
I averaged about 83 mph and achieved 34.2 mpg overall on 87 octane. I would say that's pretty darn impressive and pretty much accomplished what's claimed on the charts in the previous posts. If I had averaged 75 mph like a normal human being, I have no doubt that I would've gotten above 35 mpg.
Room -
The interior is classified as a large sedan and is very spacious and comfortable as I mentioned above. The rear seats will accommodate two adults very comfortably. The trunk swallowed all of our luggage without a sweat. But since we are going shopping tomorrow, we might have to store some stuff in the backseats, too. Haha.
That's all I have for now. I didn't bother taking pics since the cat's out of the bag. If you have any questions about the car, feel free to ask!
12-27-2009, 07:24 PM
#507
I averaged about 83 mph and achieved 34.2 mpg overall on 87 octane. I would say that's pretty darn impressive and pretty much accomplished what's claimed on the charts in the previous posts. If I had averaged 75 mph like a normal human being, I have no doubt that I would've gotten above 35 mpg.
I routinely do with my TSX 35mpg at 80mph and it has 100mph+ overtaking with paddleshifter. rightaway go from 5th to 3rd. thats what people dont see in specification. 2G TSX is alot stronger than 1G TSX in that area.
TSX is 3500lbs car, 18inch wheels, and i am 200lbs myself with about 50lbs of extra in the back. TSX gas tank is top off at 19 gallons.
and i dont believe this 4cylinder is quieter. aerodynamic is not suitable for high speed driving. truth about car said so.
Hyundai dont have particular rear leg room advantage. at 34inch.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6866031.html
Direct injection internal combustion engine
This is the exact reason why Honda's K20 based DI engine (available in the 2003 Honda Stream) was short lived as they didn't want the compromises that went with implementing DI technology as it didn't meet their standards of long term durability or reliability. That K20 DOHC DI engine was replaced by an R20 (larger version of the engine found in the current Civic (R18)) which is a SOHC configuration, has no DI yet produce nearly identical power, torque and fuel efficiency. Honda is still however researching and testing DI and ways to solve the carbon buildup issue.
Direct injection internal combustion engine
This is the exact reason why Honda's K20 based DI engine (available in the 2003 Honda Stream) was short lived as they didn't want the compromises that went with implementing DI technology as it didn't meet their standards of long term durability or reliability. That K20 DOHC DI engine was replaced by an R20 (larger version of the engine found in the current Civic (R18)) which is a SOHC configuration, has no DI yet produce nearly identical power, torque and fuel efficiency. Honda is still however researching and testing DI and ways to solve the carbon buildup issue.
12-27-2009, 10:12 PM
#509
Senior Moderator
12-27-2009, 10:59 PM
#510
lol, I'm ahead of the curve. I ignored the guy months ago. Lets all do the community a favor and not quote him either, so nobody will be forced to read such inane nonsense.
anyways PA, nice to hear that it has a 6AT. Not sure if I read that before or if I forgot. Our 4AT Civic is quite the screamer at over ~73 mph. I can imagine the extra low end torque coupled with the gearing to match will help a lot. How's it compare to say, a newer I4 Accord?
anyways PA, nice to hear that it has a 6AT. Not sure if I read that before or if I forgot. Our 4AT Civic is quite the screamer at over ~73 mph. I can imagine the extra low end torque coupled with the gearing to match will help a lot. How's it compare to say, a newer I4 Accord?
12-28-2009, 07:36 AM
#514
fap fap fap
Handling -
The car rides very compliant and smooth on the interstate. It soaks up bumps very well, and unless the pavement got really bad, the chassis felt composed. The only gripe I had initially was the heavy feel in the steering wheel while turning, but I got accustomed to it soon and it was no problem.
Base model comes with steelies and hubcaps (yeah, I know) but it handled pretty well. If it had the bigger alloy wheels with lower-profile tires, it would've no doubt handled much better. But for a sub-$20,000 family sedan, I was pretty satisfied with its handling even with the steelies. The brakes are EXCELLENT. The initial bite is strong and has a linear application. It will come to a stop very quickly without drama.
which car does it handle like?
the current sonata is like a camry so...
12-28-2009, 06:52 PM
#515
Race Director
They must have done their homework on the aerodynamics cause mileage depends a lot on that at 80mph. I wonder how many people buy a Sonata with an MT? Good for them to still offer it.
12-28-2009, 08:03 PM
#516
Punk Rocker
I'm not very impressed with this car so far. The last one looked so much better and I still can't believe they aren't going to offer a V6....
12-29-2009, 01:09 AM
#517
you also consider that current TSX 2G was introduced in March 2008. that is almost 2 years older than 2011 Sonata.
Current baseline Sonata starts at $19K. and fully equiped will be in $24k to $25k region. over 6 to 7 year period u will lose more value on Sonata than on TSX. current TSX introduce in 2003 (2002 Euro Accord). still fetch good value on used car market if properly maintained.
interms of family car. I will definitely give No1 to 2010 Camry. it looks very nice in SE trim. far better than Lexus ES-350. it has direct ignition and 6speed Auto, LED lights. consumers are not stupid. Camry is No 1 for reason. it is not as big as Accord.
It is very difficult to achieve aerodynamic efficiency in large family car. this hyundai will have SUV like drag.
now Sonata look more like ES-350 than Camry. Camry looks more like enlarge Corrolla S.
12-29-2009, 01:32 AM
#518
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^fking stupid ass
12-29-2009, 03:35 AM
#519
Safety Car
Car is 250lbs on average lighter than TSX. it has 6speed auto, Direct ignition so more low end torque. all these factors does not translate into fuel economy advantage. and i believe baseline Sonata that was driven has 16 205 size tires. so less frictional resistence. and i am not sure it is dynamically competent in curves. TSX seats are one of the best.
you also consider that current TSX 2G was introduced in March 2008. that is almost 2 years older than 2011 Sonata.
Current baseline Sonata starts at $19K. and fully equiped will be in $24k to $25k region. over 6 to 7 year period u will lose more value on Sonata than on TSX. current TSX introduce in 2003 (2002 Euro Accord). still fetch good value on used car market if properly maintained.
interms of family car. I will definitely give No1 to 2010 Camry. it looks very nice in SE trim. far better than Lexus ES-350. it has direct ignition and 6speed Auto, LED lights. consumers are not stupid. Camry is No 1 for reason. it is not as big as Accord.
It is very difficult to achieve aerodynamic efficiency in large family car. this hyundai will have SUV like drag.
now Sonata look more like ES-350 than Camry. Camry looks more like enlarge Corrolla S.
you also consider that current TSX 2G was introduced in March 2008. that is almost 2 years older than 2011 Sonata.
Current baseline Sonata starts at $19K. and fully equiped will be in $24k to $25k region. over 6 to 7 year period u will lose more value on Sonata than on TSX. current TSX introduce in 2003 (2002 Euro Accord). still fetch good value on used car market if properly maintained.
interms of family car. I will definitely give No1 to 2010 Camry. it looks very nice in SE trim. far better than Lexus ES-350. it has direct ignition and 6speed Auto, LED lights. consumers are not stupid. Camry is No 1 for reason. it is not as big as Accord.
It is very difficult to achieve aerodynamic efficiency in large family car. this hyundai will have SUV like drag.
now Sonata look more like ES-350 than Camry. Camry looks more like enlarge Corrolla S.
nobody really cares about your opinion
there are people who buy cars that you would never imagine yourself buying one, for reasons.. and you will never understand them, so be it
you're not changing anybody's opinion here
:ssftsx: