Hyundai: Genesis News
12-10-2012, 07:25 AM
#3041
Three Wheelin'
I just want to make something known that some of you guys may not realize.
Hyundai aims to control every facet of the production process. They are the only car manufacture to have their very own steel works.... That says a lot about their ambition to drive down costs, and control quality.
http://www.steelguru.com/article/det...%25238211.html
Hyundai aims to control every facet of the production process. They are the only car manufacture to have their very own steel works.... That says a lot about their ambition to drive down costs, and control quality.
http://www.steelguru.com/article/det...%25238211.html
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AZuser (12-10-2012)
12-10-2012, 12:04 PM
#3044
Race Director
^ That's all well and good but none of that matters to the end customer. And it's not as if Hyundai invented some special steel that no one else can get. When you go the any other auto assembly line they'll tell you the same thing - our steel is special.
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
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MTEAZY (12-10-2012)
12-10-2012, 07:43 PM
#3046
^ That's all well and good but none of that matters to the end customer. And it's not as if Hyundai invented some special steel that no one else can get. When you go the any other auto assembly line they'll tell you the same thing - our steel is special.
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
Henry Ford actually did this back in the day. The story went something like he saw the wreckage of a French car during a race and realized whatever alloy the French were using to build those cars was much lighter and stronger than the steel he was using to design his upcoming car. After seeing and examining that wreckage, he hired a scientist and bought a steelworks company to come up with his own version of the steel. That car made out of that steel would become the Model T.
12-10-2012, 08:15 PM
#3047
What exactly is so good about Hyundai steel?.. Well they claim the Genesis sedan has greater torsional rigidity than a 5-series or E-class. And we all know that Hyundai specs are always accurate. 
12-12-2012, 09:50 AM
#3048
Competition isn't based on pricing alone. The fact is that the Genesis was designed to compete with the likes of the BMW 5 Series, Mercedes E-Class, Infiniti M, Audi A6, and Lexus GS.
It's no different than when the Lexus LS came out in '89 to compete against the BMW 7 series and Mercedes S-class. The LS was also thousands less (i.e. "too much cut price") than its competitors.
It's no different than when the Lexus LS came out in '89 to compete against the BMW 7 series and Mercedes S-class. The LS was also thousands less (i.e. "too much cut price") than its competitors.
LS was not cheap. It was first year introductory price to create shock sales.
LS has largest percentage increase in base price in modern histroy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus
The LS 400 debuted at US$38,000 in the U.S. (in some markets, it was priced against mid-size six-cylinder Mercedes-Benz and BMW models)[34] and was rated by Car and Driver magazine as better than both the US$63,000 Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL and the US$55,000 BMW 735i in terms of ride, handling, and performance.[35]
by 1992, the LS 400's base price had risen 18% to nearly US$45,000.[48]
The LS 400 debuted at US$38,000 in the U.S. (in some markets, it was priced against mid-size six-cylinder Mercedes-Benz and BMW models)[34] and was rated by Car and Driver magazine as better than both the US$63,000 Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL and the US$55,000 BMW 735i in terms of ride, handling, and performance.[35]
by 1992, the LS 400's base price had risen 18% to nearly US$45,000.[48]
12-12-2012, 09:52 AM
#3049
Moderator
The following 3 users liked this post by ttribe:
12-12-2012, 10:27 AM
#3050
LS was cheap vs competition... just like the Genesis is cheap vs competition.
From your wiki quote:
Even if the Mercedes 420 SEL's price of $63,000 and the BMW 735i's price of $55,000 didn't increase between 1989 and 1992, the LS's base price increase to $45,000 in 1992 still makes it significantly "cut price" vs its competition.... "cut price" by at least $10,000.
.... interesting how you don't dismiss the LS as being a competitor to the pricier Mercedes 420 SEL or MBW 735i, yet you're quick to dismiss the Genesis as a competitor to the A6/E/5/GS/M because it's priced less.
I thought we were talking about "price alone." Why are you talking about percentage increase now?
Or even weight?
From your wiki quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus
The LS 400 debuted at US$38,000 in the U.S. and was rated by Car and Driver magazine as better than both the US$63,000 Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL and the US$55,000 BMW 735i in terms of ride, handling, and performance.[35]
by 1992, the LS 400's base price had risen 18% to nearly US$45,000.[48]
The LS 400 debuted at US$38,000 in the U.S. and was rated by Car and Driver magazine as better than both the US$63,000 Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL and the US$55,000 BMW 735i in terms of ride, handling, and performance.[35]
by 1992, the LS 400's base price had risen 18% to nearly US$45,000.[48]
.... interesting how you don't dismiss the LS as being a competitor to the pricier Mercedes 420 SEL or MBW 735i, yet you're quick to dismiss the Genesis as a competitor to the A6/E/5/GS/M because it's priced less.
I thought we were talking about "price alone." Why are you talking about percentage increase now?
Last edited by AZuser; 12-12-2012 at 10:31 AM.
12-12-2012, 02:23 PM
#3052
The sizzle in the Steak
12-12-2012, 02:24 PM
#3053
Some dude
I just want to know how SSFTSX ever got 9 people to thank him on his comments. It couldn't have been 9 different comments, that's just not possible.
12-12-2012, 03:56 PM
#3055
Moderator
12-12-2012, 04:40 PM
#3056
Senior Moderator
12-12-2012, 05:15 PM
#3057
The sizzle in the Steak
Maybe they liked the lunch he was talking about?
12-12-2012, 05:15 PM
#3058
Three Wheelin'
12-12-2012, 05:18 PM
#3059
Moderator
12-12-2012, 09:02 PM
#3062
12-13-2012, 09:32 AM
#3063
Senior Moderator
The following 4 users liked this post by Yumcha:
12-13-2012, 09:41 AM
#3064
Moderator
12-13-2012, 09:49 AM
#3065
Senior Moderator
It was a flirt for ttribe, really...
12-13-2012, 09:51 AM
#3066
Moderator
12-13-2012, 03:10 PM
#3068
Moderator
12-20-2012, 04:28 PM
#3069
The greenhouse on the Kia Quoris is better.
Originally Posted by biker 
If VW can't sell a 70K sedan what makes Hyundai think it can?
Even Acura has a tough time selling an RL for 45K - I don't see Hyundai selling anything (in the next 5 years), I don't care how nice it is (even if they come up with some different brand for their luxury arm), in the 40K and up market.
If VW can't sell a 70K sedan what makes Hyundai think it can?
Even Acura has a tough time selling an RL for 45K - I don't see Hyundai selling anything (in the next 5 years), I don't care how nice it is (even if they come up with some different brand for their luxury arm), in the 40K and up market.
The problem w/ the Phaeton was that (1) it was too expensive (bringing nothing to the value equation even tho it was being sold under a mainstream brand), (2) looked too much like a oversized Passat and (3) already had a sibling in the A8 that was about the same price and wasn't a big seller in itself.
In part due to the success of the Equus, VAG is going to give it another try and relaunch the Phaeton in the US in a few years, but this time, at a lower pricepoint (around the $55-60k mark).
^ That's all well and good but none
of that matters to the end customer. And it's not as if Hyundai invented some special steel that no one else can get. When you go the any other auto assembly line they'll tell you the same thing - our steel is special
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
of that matters to the end customer. And it's not as if Hyundai invented some special steel that no one else can get. When you go the any other auto assembly line they'll tell you the same thing - our steel is special
Biker, who got the same spiel (and saw the steel being formed into body panels) at the BMW factory in Munich.
Last edited by YEH; 12-20-2012 at 04:40 PM.
12-20-2012, 05:20 PM
#3070
I don't know why I bother, but it's just too easy...
Uhm, the Genesis and Equus sedans are big sellers in Korea, unlike that for the GS and LS in Japan, so the investment pays off more for Hyundai than Toyota (esp. since the one can include Kia Quoris sales which is also a seller in Korea); nevermind for Nissan which barely sells any M sedans either in the US or Japan.
Plus, the Genesis sedan has by far the highest V8 take rate in the US market for midsize luxury sedans whereas, Toyota abandoned the V8 for the GS since few bought it (sales of the GS became so dismal that the Akio Toyoda almost killed of the GS in its entirety).
And yet, it is the Equus which is being included in comparison with the S Class, 7 Series, A8, XJ and LS.
Where's Acura's entry?
When Hyundai has its luxury sedan lineup completed w/ the new RK compact RWD sedan, the 2G Genesis and 3G Equus - they will all be at a higher pricepoint than Acura's sedan lineup.
So which automaker is trying to sell for "cheap"?
Not quite the size of the 7 Series, in btwn that of 5 and 7 Series (3 inches longer than the 5 Series and 4" shorter than the 7 Series); and who cares?
The Infiniti G is 5" longer than the E90 3 Series, not to mention people trying to claim the TSX or even the TL being a competitor the 3 Series despite the difference in size.
And the Genesis is selling well compared to its Japanese RWD competition.
Infiniti M sales YTD US -- Canada
8k -- 300
Lexus GS sales
19k -- 780
Genesis sales
17.5k* -- 2900
* Genesis sedan sales make up about 55% of Genesis sales in the US (might be even higher as there was a supply issue w/ the coupe due to the strike.
So, the Genesis, which is in its last year before the new gen launches sells more than 2X what the newer Infiniti M does in the US (and almost 10X in Canada) and almost as well as the brand new GS in the US (and 3.5X times in Canada) - and that's w/ the Genesis not having AWD which can make up to 50% of RWD-based sedan sales.
And not only that - about 30-35% of Genesis sales are for the R-Spec (used to be around 40% before the bump in power for the 3.8).
And when the 2G Genesis launches in the US, it once again will outsell the GS.
Except the Genesis doesn't compete w/ the FWD ES.
The LS400 was priced at $35k (which was cheaper than a well-equipped E Class, much less the S Class) upon launch since Toyota didn't think it would sell unless they priced it aggressively.
Once the LS400 became a sales success, Toyota started to raise the price, but as the price has risen, sales of the LS has declined.
But still the LS460 is $20k cheaper than the S Class - which makes it closer in price to the Equus than the S Class - so the LS40 is more of an Equus competitor than an S Class competitor according to your (poor) reasoning.
Furthermore, do you really think Hyundai can charge the same amount as luxury brands while they don't offer a luxury badge and separate dealer network?
Hyundai has to give buyers the "savings" in not doing so (around $6-7k for the Genesis and $9-10k for the Equus).
The next gen Genesis will be getting a significant price bump up to around $38-39k w/ the Equus getting one as well, so when you factor in the savings of not having to pay for a separate brand and dealer network - they will be priced compatibly w/ Infiniti and Lexus.
Honda has taken a different track w/ Acura - offering the separate brand and dealer network, but not offering the traditional luxury set-up of RWD + V8 - which is why Acura's lineup doesn't exactly fit in the traditional luxury sedan categories and has to be priced one whole segment lower (mid-size TL being priced the same as a compact RWD).
They werent wrong. you have to look Korean created separate RWD platform along with V8 engines. and sales are very tiny for such investment.
Genesis/Eqqus are practically non existant in rest of the world. Just Nissan Patrol/Infiniti QX exceed all Hyundai V8 sales per month.
Genesis/Eqqus are practically non existant in rest of the world. Just Nissan Patrol/Infiniti QX exceed all Hyundai V8 sales per month.
Plus, the Genesis sedan has by far the highest V8 take rate in the US market for midsize luxury sedans whereas, Toyota abandoned the V8 for the GS since few bought it (sales of the GS became so dismal that the Akio Toyoda almost killed of the GS in its entirety).
It is now practically established that despite creating V8 and RWD platforms Hyundi has failed to create a luxury image. I bet they are losing big time trying to sell the cheap with low volume for V8/RWD.
Where's Acura's entry?
When Hyundai has its luxury sedan lineup completed w/ the new RK compact RWD sedan, the 2G Genesis and 3G Equus - they will all be at a higher pricepoint than Acura's sedan lineup.
So which automaker is trying to sell for "cheap"?
How exactly is Genesis selling well. Its size of BMW 7 with price less than BMW 3 comparably equiped. and still not selling well.
The Infiniti G is 5" longer than the E90 3 Series, not to mention people trying to claim the TSX or even the TL being a competitor the 3 Series despite the difference in size.
And the Genesis is selling well compared to its Japanese RWD competition.
Infiniti M sales YTD US -- Canada
8k -- 300
Lexus GS sales
19k -- 780
Genesis sales
17.5k* -- 2900
* Genesis sedan sales make up about 55% of Genesis sales in the US (might be even higher as there was a supply issue w/ the coupe due to the strike.
So, the Genesis, which is in its last year before the new gen launches sells more than 2X what the newer Infiniti M does in the US (and almost 10X in Canada) and almost as well as the brand new GS in the US (and 3.5X times in Canada) - and that's w/ the Genesis not having AWD which can make up to 50% of RWD-based sedan sales.
And not only that - about 30-35% of Genesis sales are for the R-Spec (used to be around 40% before the bump in power for the 3.8).
And when the 2G Genesis launches in the US, it once again will outsell the GS.
As i said 2000 a month combined coupe/sedan sales are hardly big number.when more expensive FWD Lexus ES have 7000 sales a months.
Competition is based on price alone. If your selling Genesis at half the price of BMW 5 series means it is not competition. Otherwise Ford Crown Victoria is also in same class.
LS was not cheap. It was first year introductory price to create shock sales.
LS has largest percentage increase in base price in modern histroy.
and in 1992 MB S class was lunched that weight 4700lbs. much larger car than LS.
LS was not cheap. It was first year introductory price to create shock sales.
LS has largest percentage increase in base price in modern histroy.
and in 1992 MB S class was lunched that weight 4700lbs. much larger car than LS.
Once the LS400 became a sales success, Toyota started to raise the price, but as the price has risen, sales of the LS has declined.
But still the LS460 is $20k cheaper than the S Class - which makes it closer in price to the Equus than the S Class - so the LS40 is more of an Equus competitor than an S Class competitor according to your (poor) reasoning.
Furthermore, do you really think Hyundai can charge the same amount as luxury brands while they don't offer a luxury badge and separate dealer network?
Hyundai has to give buyers the "savings" in not doing so (around $6-7k for the Genesis and $9-10k for the Equus).
The next gen Genesis will be getting a significant price bump up to around $38-39k w/ the Equus getting one as well, so when you factor in the savings of not having to pay for a separate brand and dealer network - they will be priced compatibly w/ Infiniti and Lexus.
Honda has taken a different track w/ Acura - offering the separate brand and dealer network, but not offering the traditional luxury set-up of RWD + V8 - which is why Acura's lineup doesn't exactly fit in the traditional luxury sedan categories and has to be priced one whole segment lower (mid-size TL being priced the same as a compact RWD).
Last edited by YEH; 12-20-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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12-21-2012, 04:23 PM
#3072
^ You're welcome.
Now, I certain am not saying that Hyundai doesn't have its issues (every automakers has them), but selling a luxury lineup under a mainstream brand is not one of them (tho, there is a good chance that Hyundai will launch luxury sub-brand once they fill out their lineup - i.e. - compact RWD sedan, at least one luxury CUV).
One only has to look at the RWD sedan sales for Infiniti and Lexus.
Infiniti killed off the Q flagship and the M is barely selling (despite being newer than the Genesis and having AWD).
Akio Toyoda wanted to cancel the GS, but was talked out of it (but Lexus still killed off the V8 GS) and both IS and GS sales are way behind BMW and MB in those segments.
Only the LS does reasonable well within its segment b/c it is drastically cheaper.
So people still think this is the smart way of doing business?
Yeah, Lexus sales overall are good, but the vast majority of their sales is made up of the FWD ES and RX which are priced one segment down.
After a century of competing w/ Cadillac, Lincoln execs announced that they would no longer be going head to head w/ Cadillac (aside from the XTS) and instead would be gearing their sights on Audi, Acura and (the FWD) Lexus (not to mention Volvo) as Cadillac will have full RWD sedan lineup in a few years.
So w/ the cheaper cost of "tarting up" FWD models, these luxury brands offer a midsize luxury sedan for the price of a compact RWD.
Hyundai is simply taking a different tack and they are offering a midsize RWD luxury sedan for the price of a compact RWD (or a V8 midsize for the price of a 6 cyl midsize as is the R-Spec) since they don't have to price in the cost of a separate luxury brand or dealer network.
And as mainstream branded luxury models get increasingly wider acceptance, Hyundai's RWD lineup, while still undercutting Lexus and Infiniti will be priced above that of the FWD lineups (as the Equus already is).
Now, I certain am not saying that Hyundai doesn't have its issues (every automakers has them), but selling a luxury lineup under a mainstream brand is not one of them (tho, there is a good chance that Hyundai will launch luxury sub-brand once they fill out their lineup - i.e. - compact RWD sedan, at least one luxury CUV).
One only has to look at the RWD sedan sales for Infiniti and Lexus.
Infiniti killed off the Q flagship and the M is barely selling (despite being newer than the Genesis and having AWD).
Akio Toyoda wanted to cancel the GS, but was talked out of it (but Lexus still killed off the V8 GS) and both IS and GS sales are way behind BMW and MB in those segments.
Only the LS does reasonable well within its segment b/c it is drastically cheaper.
So people still think this is the smart way of doing business?
Yeah, Lexus sales overall are good, but the vast majority of their sales is made up of the FWD ES and RX which are priced one segment down.
After a century of competing w/ Cadillac, Lincoln execs announced that they would no longer be going head to head w/ Cadillac (aside from the XTS) and instead would be gearing their sights on Audi, Acura and (the FWD) Lexus (not to mention Volvo) as Cadillac will have full RWD sedan lineup in a few years.
So w/ the cheaper cost of "tarting up" FWD models, these luxury brands offer a midsize luxury sedan for the price of a compact RWD.
Hyundai is simply taking a different tack and they are offering a midsize RWD luxury sedan for the price of a compact RWD (or a V8 midsize for the price of a 6 cyl midsize as is the R-Spec) since they don't have to price in the cost of a separate luxury brand or dealer network.
And as mainstream branded luxury models get increasingly wider acceptance, Hyundai's RWD lineup, while still undercutting Lexus and Infiniti will be priced above that of the FWD lineups (as the Equus already is).
Last edited by YEH; 12-21-2012 at 04:26 PM.
12-22-2012, 08:00 PM
#3073
I don't know why I bother, but it's just too easy...
Uhm, the Genesis and Equus sedans are big sellers in Korea, unlike that for the GS and LS in Japan, so the investment pays off more for Hyundai than Toyota (esp. since the one can include Kia Quoris sales which is also a seller in Korea); nevermind for Nissan which barely sells any M sedans either in the US or Japan.
Uhm, the Genesis and Equus sedans are big sellers in Korea, unlike that for the GS and LS in Japan, so the investment pays off more for Hyundai than Toyota (esp. since the one can include Kia Quoris sales which is also a seller in Korea); nevermind for Nissan which barely sells any M sedans either in the US or Japan.
Plus, the Genesis sedan has by far the highest V8 take rate in the US market for midsize luxury sedans whereas, Toyota abandoned the V8 for the GS since few bought it (sales of the GS became so dismal that the Akio Toyoda almost killed of the GS in its entirety).
And yet, it is the Equus which is being included in comparison with the S Class, 7 Series, A8, XJ and LS.
And yet, it is the Equus which is being included in comparison with the S Class, 7 Series, A8, XJ and LS.
See this example. Sonata Hybrid is selling at price of a Civic.
http://www.cammisahyundai.com/Special/new/2012-Hyundai-Sonata-4dr_Sdn_2.4_Auto_Hybrid-1788606043-YEAR_END_SALES_EVENT!_$21,388-Burlingame-CA/16756360
I was wrong. Used 2012 certified Genesis for $24k. Not even single Acura dealer will negotiate a 2012 TSX with certificationat this price.
http://www.magnussenhyundai.com/
Where's Acura's entry?
When Hyundai has its luxury sedan lineup completed w/ the new RK compact RWD sedan, the 2G Genesis and 3G Equus - they will all be at a higher pricepoint than Acura's sedan lineup.
So which automaker is trying to sell for "cheap"?
Not quite the size of the 7 Series, in btwn that of 5 and 7 Series (3 inches longer than the 5 Series and 4" shorter than the 7 Series); and who cares?
The Infiniti G is 5" longer than the E90 3 Series, not to mention people trying to claim the TSX or even the TL being a competitor the 3 Series despite the difference in size.
And the Genesis is selling well compared to its Japanese RWD competition.
Infiniti M sales YTD US -- Canada
8k -- 300
Lexus GS sales
19k -- 780
Genesis sales
17.5k* -- 2900
* Genesis sedan sales make up about 55% of Genesis sales in the US (might be even higher as there was a supply issue w/ the coupe due to the strike.
So, the Genesis, which is in its last year before the new gen launches sells more than 2X what the newer Infiniti M does in the US (and almost 10X in Canada) and almost as well as the brand new GS in the US (and 3.5X times in Canada) - and that's w/ the Genesis not having AWD which can make up to 50% of RWD-based sedan sales.
And not only that - about 30-35% of Genesis sales are for the R-Spec (used to be around 40% before the bump in power for the 3.8).
And when the 2G Genesis launches in the US, it once again will outsell the GS.
8k -- 300
Lexus GS sales
19k -- 780
Genesis sales
17.5k* -- 2900
* Genesis sedan sales make up about 55% of Genesis sales in the US (might be even higher as there was a supply issue w/ the coupe due to the strike.
So, the Genesis, which is in its last year before the new gen launches sells more than 2X what the newer Infiniti M does in the US (and almost 10X in Canada) and almost as well as the brand new GS in the US (and 3.5X times in Canada) - and that's w/ the Genesis not having AWD which can make up to 50% of RWD-based sedan sales.
And not only that - about 30-35% of Genesis sales are for the R-Spec (used to be around 40% before the bump in power for the 3.8).
And when the 2G Genesis launches in the US, it once again will outsell the GS.
See Eqqus lease rate and discounts.
http://www.capitolhyundaisanjose.com...8&locale=en_US
Except the Genesis doesn't compete w/ the FWD ES.
The LS400 was priced at $35k (which was cheaper than a well-equipped E Class, much less the S Class) upon launch since Toyota didn't think it would sell unless they priced it aggressively.
Once the LS400 became a sales success, Toyota started to raise the price, but as the price has risen, sales of the LS has declined.
But still the LS460 is $20k cheaper than the S Class - which makes it closer in price to the Equus than the S Class - so the LS40 is more of an Equus competitor than an S Class competitor according to your (poor) reasoning.
Furthermore, do you really think Hyundai can charge the same amount as luxury brands while they don't offer a luxury badge and separate dealer network?
Hyundai has to give buyers the "savings" in not doing so (around $6-7k for the Genesis and $9-10k for the Equus).
The next gen Genesis will be getting a significant price bump up to around $38-39k w/ the Equus getting one as well, so when you factor in the savings of not having to pay for a separate brand and dealer network - they will be priced compatibly w/ Infiniti and Lexus.
Honda has taken a different track w/ Acura - offering the separate brand and dealer network, but not offering the traditional luxury set-up of RWD + V8 - which is why Acura's lineup doesn't exactly fit in the traditional luxury sedan categories and has to be priced one whole segment lower (mid-size TL being priced the same as a compact RWD).
You want to see implementation of RWD setup. LS460/LS460L has the same turning radius as Honda Civic.
http://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specs/
What differentiate Acura is superior handling even in FWD. Stock vs Stock. Acura TL FWD will not handle worse than Lexus GS or BMW 5 series.
Acura is never priced lower than competition. It just offer lesser content, older technology with no choice of customization (even less color choice) and no free maintaince with no such thing as RFT in lower priced models.
Hyundia problem is different. It always offer more and newer technology for less price. But the end product falls short of expectations.
The following users liked this post:
MuGen7Modulo (12-22-2012)
12-24-2012, 04:52 PM
#3074
I'm starting to like Hyundai cars but as far as I know hyundai is the largest ship builder as well with various engineering sectors so are they totally focused on their automotive division. I feel like they could do more with the genesis line if they focus more on their car division then lets say ship building although I read they were given a billion dollar vessel contract. My point hyundai needs to give bigger focus on the car
12-24-2012, 07:55 PM
#3075
אני עומד עם ישראל
Compare a Hyundai today and where they were five years ago it is startling.
12-25-2012, 06:48 AM
#3076
Fahrvergnügen'd
I'm starting to like Hyundai cars but as far as I know hyundai is the largest ship builder as well with various engineering sectors so are they totally focused on their automotive division. I feel like they could do more with the genesis line if they focus more on their car division then lets say ship building although I read they were given a billion dollar vessel contract. My point hyundai needs to give bigger focus on the car
Fuji Heavy Industries owns Subaru and competes against Hyundai in more than just cars. They don't have problems.
12-25-2012, 06:50 AM
#3077
Fahrvergnügen'd
Sat in a Genesis 4.6 at a dealer on Sunday.
Why are the seat bottoms so short? I am not a tall guy at 5'8" but I would have liked a bigger cushion.
Other than that it is a nice car.
Why are the seat bottoms so short? I am not a tall guy at 5'8" but I would have liked a bigger cushion.
Other than that it is a nice car.
12-25-2012, 12:02 PM
#3078
Senior Moderator
12-25-2012, 12:05 PM
#3079
Senior Moderator
I'm starting to like Hyundai cars but as far as I know hyundai is the largest ship builder as well with various engineering sectors so are they totally focused on their automotive division. I feel like they could do more with the genesis line if they focus more on their car division then lets say ship building although I read they were given a billion dollar vessel contract. My point hyundai needs to give bigger focus on the car