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Hyundai: Elantra News

 
Old 02-08-2012, 11:48 AM
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He never reads. He only pew pews.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:02 PM
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:11 PM
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^^ Conspiracy theorists unite!!!!
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:17 PM
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At least SSFTSX is entertaining.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:23 PM
  #245  
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Got an issue? Call the EPA.

Disclaimer: No longer work there; even if I did, still not representative of Hyundai's position on the topic.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Hyung! Did you get a better job?
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3 View Post
Hyung! Did you get a better job?
I don't know if I want to label it as "better" or even "worse" because I very much enjoyed my time at Hyundai, but this is what I wanted as the next step in my career. I am now with Amazon.com.

P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line. They are awesome, I promise.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:35 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
^^ Conspiracy theorists unite!!!!
Well thought out.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Well thought out.
Precisely, what motive do you believe PM would have for rigging the test?
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Precisely, what motive do you believe PM would have for rigging the test?
Don't bring logic and common sense into this.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:05 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Precisely, what motive do you believe PM would have for rigging the test?
Who said anything about the test being rigged?

My beef is with the testing method. Do you or anyone else that you know drive to or from work/school/whatever at 55mph, in the middle of the day when there is no traffic, for 133 miles, each way? If you or someone you know does, then the Elantra is the car for you/them.

According the fueleconomy.gov, the owners of the 2012 Civic, Cruze, and Focus are ALL reporting better average MPG's than the Elantra by a significant margin. These are averages being reported by real owners in real-world driving conditions.

Maybe the average Civic/Cruze/Focus driver is just lighter on the pedal compared to the average Elantra driver? There are so many possibilities but ironic that the Elantra seems to be the only one suffering from whatever the "problem" might be.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:07 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
Don't bring logic and common sense into this.
One area in which you have never been a hypocrite.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline View Post
I don't know if I want to label it as "better" or even "worse" because I very much enjoyed my time at Hyundai, but this is what I wanted as the next step in my career. I am now with Amazon.com.

P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line. They are awesome, I promise.
So glad to hear that, hyung. Congrats again!

I personally hate Amazon because I always spend more than I should on that site. IMO, it's the best shopping site on the web. Never had any problem with them before.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
  #254  
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My little Mazda got something like 15mpg this morning on the way to work which is about 5 miles of drive, I should call EPA and complaint. Effing liars.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:16 PM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3 View Post
My little Mazda got something like 15mpg this morning on the way to work which is about 5 miles of drive, I should call EPA and complaint. Effing liars.

Yeah you definitely should. Especially since your car is 100% stock.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #256  
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Is one of the EPA stipulations that these cars have to be tested in traffic to get the rating?

Also, IIRC when Honda released the current Civic they stated the Civic will get different mileage than the sticker....
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Yeah you definitely should. Especially since your car is 100% stock.
You probably don't know, but I'm getting better gas mileage after I tuned my car.

I should call EPA and complaint.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by Hapa DC5 View Post
Is one of the EPA stipulations that these cars have to be tested in traffic to get the rating?

Also, IIRC when Honda released the current Civic they stated the Civic will get different mileage than the sticker....

Yes. Specifically stop and go traffic for the city test, and a mix of urban (to simulate traffic) and intersate driving (no traffic) for the hwy test.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:25 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3 View Post
You probably don't know, but I'm getting better gas mileage after I tuned my car.

I should call EPA and complaint.
Now you DEFINITELY have a reason to call them.

In all seriousness though you have a heavy foot. The average reported for your car is 24mpg.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:35 PM
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Yeah, my 2 year average is about 22-23mpg.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Who said anything about the test being rigged?
Was that not implicit in your statement?

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
My beef is with the testing method. Do you or anyone else that you know drive to or from work/school/whatever at 55mph, in the middle of the day when there is no traffic, for 133 miles, each way? If you or someone you know does, then the Elantra is the car for you/them.
Ahh, so in shifting the goal posts, you're moving to the - PM is incompetent - defense. That's interesting given their history.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
According the fueleconomy.gov, the owners of the 2012 Civic, Cruze, and Focus are ALL reporting better average MPG's than the Elantra by a significant margin. These are averages being reported by real owners in real-world driving conditions.
Really? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31371&id=32180 Make sure you pay close attention to those sample sizes.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Maybe the average Civic/Cruze/Focus driver is just lighter on the pedal compared to the average Elantra driver? There are so many possibilities but ironic that the Elantra seems to be the only one suffering from whatever the "problem" might be.
Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.

Last edited by ttribe; 02-08-2012 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Was that not implicit in your statement?

Uhh... No. It wasn't.

Ahh, so in shifting the goal posts, you're moving to the - PM is incompetent - defense. That's interesting given their history.

Nobody said anything about PM being incompetent. I merely pointed out the methods they utilized to achieve the results they did, which are not realistic in the real-world.

Really? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31371&id=32180 Make sure you pay close attention to those sample sizes.

Here is a better comparison. Your link had a mix of manual and auto cars. My comparison is more reasonable because the cars being compared have similar EPA MPG ratings and they are all autos.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31315


Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.

So can you tell me what it is about the individual Elantra owners that is so different from the Cruze/Civic/Focus owners?
.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:59 PM
  #263  
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Hyundai and the EPA are in bed together on this

So is MT.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:02 PM
  #264  
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Here is another comparison with the 2011 Elantra included also. It has a slightly higher average because one person actually reported getting 40 mpg. The low of 20mpg is the same for both MY's though. All said though, it still has the lowest average of the bunch.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:03 PM
  #265  
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Elantra still is in pretty good shape in that other link..
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:03 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Nobody said anything about PM being incompetent. I merely pointed out the methods they utilized to achieve the results they did, which are not realistic in the real-world.
You understand that you just called them incompetent, right?

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Here is a better comparison. Your link had a mix of manual and auto cars. My comparison is more reasonable because the cars being compared have similar EPA MPG ratings and they are all autos.
My bad. I thought I had selected all Auto (guess I grabbed the wrong one on the Civic). But, do you really think you should be including the "Cruze ECO"?

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
So can you tell me what it is about the individual Elantra owners that is so different from the Cruze/Civic/Focus owners?
Before I answer that, I need to ask you a question to get a baseline (and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass here) - how much do you understand about self-selection bias, small sample sizes, and the statistical validity of anecdotal voluntary samples?
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
Hyundai and the EPA are in bed together on this

So is MT.
And Popular Mechanics.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #268  
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Here is another comparison with the 2011 Elantra included also. It has a slightly higher average because one person actually reported getting 40 mpg. The low of 20mpg is the same for both MY's though. All said though, it still has the lowest average of the bunch.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
Are we supposed to look at "learn more about 'your MPG'" line? The sample size is like 25 cars for elantra! The focus number is average based on 5 cars! wtf
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:10 PM
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I've honestly never heard of any of these sites til today.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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Might be useful to bear in mind the following as well:

Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in

Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in

Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in

Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.

Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
It's not clear to me - does this site segregate the HF/Eco/Hybrid variants?
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
You understand that you just called them incompetent, right?

If me saying that their method of testing is not representative of the real-world is your idea of me calling them incompetent, then okay. Stop making this about me and just focus on the discussion at hand.

My bad. I thought I had selected all Auto (guess I grabbed the wrong one on the Civic). But, do you really think you should be including the "Cruze ECO"?

I selected Cruze ECO because it is closer to the MPG rating of the Elantra than the regular Cruze is.

Before I answer that, I need to ask you a question to get a baseline (and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass here) - how much do you understand about self-selection bias, small sample sizes, and the statistical validity of anecdotal voluntary samples?

Quite a bit actually. One of my degrees in college (double major) was in Psychology and I did my research in a psych test lab. I don't know if I know more than you, but I think it's safe to say I know more than the average person.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Might be useful to bear in mind the following as well:

Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in

Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in

Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in

Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.

Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
How is it useful?
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
How is it useful?
Size and weight impact mileage. I was just making sure all the variables were out there for inspection.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
If me saying that their method of testing is not representative of the real-world is your idea of me calling them incompetent, then okay. Stop making this about me and just focus on the discussion at hand..
I didn't make anything about "you"; I attacked your argument.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Quite a bit actually. One of my degrees in college (double major) was in Psychology and I did my research in a psych test lab. I don't know if I know more than you, but I think it's safe to say I know more than the average person.
Okay good. Then, you know that it's extremely risky to reach any conclusions when you have a data set built ENTIRELY on self-selected participants, tiny sample sizes, and anecdotal evidence.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:40 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
It's not clear to me - does this site segregate the HF/Eco/Hybrid variants?
Not unless the owner specified it in their personal description. However, with the Cruze Eco being rated 42 hwy, Focus SFE 40 hwy, and Civic HF at 41hwy, they compare well to the Elantra's rated 40mpg, even if they are included in the averages. Additionally, these higher fuel economy models from Chevy, Ford, and Hyundai are more expensive than the average model and not representative of the average Cruze/Focus/Civic on the road. You can mention the Civic hybrid but we all know how that sells.

Realistically though, it's a safe bet that most of the models represented are more than likely standard models.

Edit: My bad. Looks like you actually can specify the trim level after all. Its right above the graph for the specific car.

Last edited by VTEC Racer; 02-08-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Size and weight impact mileage. I was just making sure all the variables were out there for inspection.
Those variables were all already taken into account when EPA testing was done.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
I didn't make anything about "you"; I attacked your argument.

Just drop it.

Okay good. Then, you know that it's extremely risky to reach any conclusions when you have a data set built ENTIRELY on self-selected participants, tiny sample sizes, and anecdotal evidence.

Yes, I am very aware of that. However, you can only base your conclusions on the data available and right now, this is the only data we have available from the real-world.

It is no different than how Consumer Reports and JD powers reach their conclusions and recommendations.

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Old 02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Those variables were all already taken into account when EPA testing was done.
It was more for the reader of this thread than for anything else.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Just drop it.
That's fine. Just pointing out the difference between an actual ad hominem attack and one that isn't.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
Yes, I am very aware of that. However, you can only base your conclusions on the data available and right now, this is the only data we have available from the real-world.
The posts in this thread up to this point did not make it obvious that you were so aware. Qualifiers help.

Originally Posted by VTEC Racer View Post
It is no different than how Consumer Reports and JD powers reach their conclusions and recommendations.
Yep. I rarely look there for just this reason.
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