MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The 3.5 direct injection will be able to produce that much easily and be more efficient though. Hyundai showed the GDI 3.5 and the low end version made 296 horsepower, so the performance/premium versions will make another 20 or so.

YEH

The center stack design of the Sonata and new Azera should have been switched.

Also, Hyundai messed up the front fascia of the Azera (seems like they weren't sure which direction to go - conservative or forward-looking).

One competes in the mid-size, RWD luxury segment, the other competes in the large, FWD upscale segment.

Nissan/Infiniti

Altima, Maxima, G37, M

Toyota/Lexus (even more convoluted w/ the ES)

Camry, Avalon, IS, ES, GS

Hyundai

Sonata, Azera, (compact RWD luxury sedan in development), Genesis

Shift_Acura

More pointless cars. ^

Maybe I think their pointless because in Canada they are all priced the same as or even higher than the Luxury brand model.

Eg.
Maxima costs more than the G37.
Avalon is either the same or a little bit more expensive than the ES

No thanks, I will only buy them used since they cost less than their Luxury counterparts.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

What cars are pointless?

Shift_Acura

Maxima/Azera/ES

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

In October . . . .

Maxima- 3,843
Azera- Don't know, but it hasn't sold that well
ES350- 5,153

Clearly buyers want these vehicles. Even in old age the ES350 is being moved by a count of over 5,000 units a month. The Maxima is traditionally selling from 4,000-5,000 a month. They're selling well. The G37 sedan sold 2,711 that month as well. I can guarantee you that Nissan is doing better by selling both that just the Infiniti sedan. Ditto Toyota with the ES350 and IS250/350.

All it takes is Hyundai to get this new Azera right and it will make just as much sense as the cash cows that are the Maxima and ES350.

SSFTSX

Maxima is actually small car with size of Sonata but with sportier handling & much upscale interior.
Azera will be a big boat with handling worse than Sonata and Sonata is already among the worse in family sedan.
ES350 has lexus badge and refinement.
It is illogical to compare Maxima with Avalon/Azera.

JAB00

Meh, it looks like a Chrysler Sebring.

YEH

Less pointless than for Toyota or Nissan, much less Honda.

The Sonata is FWD but does not offer a V6.

The Genesis has a V6, but is RWD.

There are buyers out there who want the FWD/V6 combo which Hyundai does not have w/ the Sonata (unlike the Altima, Camry, etc.).

It's the same segment (same reason why the Altima or Mazda6 is compared to the Camry in sales); also besides the fact that the new Azera is going to be a good bit sportier than the outgoing model, it won't be the Azera that will go head to head w/ the Maxima, that will be the Kia Cadenza which will be sportier.

Also, the Maxima is in the full-size class, it just has a smaller interior cabin.

Maxima
Length: 190.6"
Curb weight: 3,565 lbs

Azera
193.3"
3629 lbs

SSFTSX

No one is going to buy FWD V6 Hyundi that is expensive than Hyunda Sonata turbo. When lightweight Sonato cannot become sporty there is little chance of heavier V6 FWD Azera become sport.
It is simply not match for Maxima. It is practically a redundant car.

smarty666

Actually, while the prices are close, the Maxima is not more money than the G37. As the trim levels go up, the G37 typically remains a few hundred to a thousand dollars more than the the Maxima. The Maxima tops off at around $39,800 while the G37 can be loaded up with all packages to a price of about $44k something so the G37 is more money.

As my friend MyCar pointed out, those cars aren't pointless, at least not the Maxima, or it would not have the sales that it does. Hell, back in the spring and summer, they were selling between 5-7k per month. While Nissan's marketing of the Maxima has been a little screwed up, the car is differentiated pretty well from the G37 is all areas. I should know, I test drove both extensively, before choosing the Max, since it met my needs better than the G did.

YEH

What do you know about the auto industry?

Oh right, not much.

Again, the new Azera, while being a bit sportier than the outgoing model, is being targeted more against the Avalon than the Maxima (which is what the sportier Kia Cadenza will primarily compete against) - and there is a segment of buyers who do not want a turbo 4, no matter how much HP it has.

Also, the Sonata was never meant to be "sporty", altho it is about as sporty as the Accord (the Accord does some things better; the Sonata others), but rather a mid-size sedan targeted at the mainstream buyer (the mainstream buyers doesn't really care about "sporty" - look at the sales of the Mazda6 and Kizashi).

Kia is supposed to be the sportier brand and by all accounts, the Optima is sportier (altho, for a real sporty ride, one will have to opt for the Optima SX).

SSFTSX

Accord does some things better than? Accord do most of the things better.
Accord has better rear room, Accord has quieter/refined engine and after 2011 MMC it is more fuel efficient. Accord has better looks for family sedan.
Accord handles better. (Just compare Accord with HFP package 18inch with Sonata 18inch). Not Honda Accord 17inch with 18inch Sonata.

Remember V6 at reasonable Cost. Accord V6 is extremely efficient for under $30K decently loaded.
Now your introducing Azera that will be more expensive for V-6.
Maxima has upscale interior and among the best handling abilities for FWD car.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

You don't know anything. The Maxima in itself could be called redundent with the Altima, but Nissan made sure that DIDN'T happen.

Same with Hyundai.

smarty666

He is like the smattering of flies to me!

vybzkartel

Obviously, he(SSFTSX) doesn't know the history of the Maxima!

Shift_Acura

The history of the Maxima is that it used to be the sportiest/fastest and most powerful sedan by Nissan. Even in its fifth gen when the Infiniti I35 came out, the Max was still sportier and quicker due to its lighter weight. In 2003 they came out with the lighter and more powerful G35 and the Altima V6; both not only looked better but had newer, more sophisticated chassis (and not to mention RWD for the G35)

In 2004 the Maxima just became an over sized Altima. By this time the Altima and G35 sales had leapfrogged the Max.

In 2007 the MMC Max received the CVT trans and dropped 10 HP. Making the Altima MORE powerful and fun to drive. IMO that is the official date of the Maxima's demise.

The 7th gen Max looks ALOT better. My biggest problem with the Maxima now is that the previous gens all used the same motor as the G35, so the HP difference was usually within 10-20. And they all used the same 5 AT and 6MT until 07. Now the G has a bigger motor and 40 more hp and 7 AT. But the Maxima cost MORE? Why? Because it has a heated steering wheel and a cooled driver seat?

yohan81718

for a moment, i thought this was maxima thread

smarty666

Seriously dude, what is going on with you? As I pointed out earlier, the Maxima DOES NOT cost more than a G37. Max tops out at $39,800 while a G37 tops off at $44k something.

Shift_Acura

Obviously I can only speak for Canadian prices. Before the G25, the Maxima starting price was about $2k more than the G37.

Now the Maxima is $3,400 more expensive than a G25.

I think there is a base model in the US without leather. We only get the loaded model here with Leather standard.

Shift_Acura

EDIT: I just checked the Infiniti website and there is no more RWD G37 AT. The base model has been bumped up to AWD. It now costs $43,450! This change must have been made recently with the introduction of the G25. All I can say is WTF. The base price used to be $37,XXX a couple of months ago.

smarty666

Well you didn't say G25, but G37. So if your talking about the G25 then your correct, but just remember that the G25 has only 218HP, no nav or tech system to it like the Maxima does, and it lacks all those luxury features in the premium package that the maxima. If I had to choose between the G25 and Maxima, I'd take the Maxima any day of the week. You get so much more features, room, and creature comforts with it. Plus, the mpg for the G25 IS 19/27 and the Maxima is 19/26. I'd rather loose 1mpg, though I suspect with the CVT the Maxima gets better mpg, and have 290HP then take a cut back to only 218HP and only get maybe 1mpg improvment.

Infiniti screwed the pooch on the G25 if you ask me. The mpg, lack of nav and a manual, and some other things make it not that great of a buy. I'd rather be in the TSX I4 before the G25 if I had only that choice. The G37 on the other hand is a different story.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I don't know about Canada, but I know in America you can still buy an automatic RWD G37. The G37 is fully optioned at $44,000-$45,000 or so in America, while the Maxima doesn't quite click $40,000. Big difference.

The G25 doesn't even come close to the features and power the Maxima offers.

smarty666

It all depends on where you live. If your up in Canada, I'm not surprise they they stopped offering the RWD only to you guys. Down here in NJ it is the same way. Unless you special order it, all the G's come on the lot with AWD because of the winter's around here. The only base RWD G's I've seen at Infiniti dealers around here are the loaner cars in the service department, everything else is AWD. Even BMW has gone this route but not to the extent Infiniti has. I have found some RWD only on their lots but the majority have the AWD, again b/c of the winter's here. Canada gets much much worse winter then NJ does so its understandable.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I agree. It even looks kind of cheap, somehow. A loaded G25 is about $35,000, for which you can do much better. The turbocharged Regal comes to mind for that kind of money, or actually even the GS version will be for sale shortly. Let's see, 218 hp Infiniti that offers few options or that sexy Buick? Yes, it feels weird to say that.

Or hell, a Maxima.

chungkopi

chungkopi

it's bit busy for my taste, but overall i think it's a huge improvement. and instead of silver plastic, hyundai should've used the jet black interior like gen coupe refresh.

phile

yeah it's heavy handed. I was liking it a lot until this interior pic.

yohan81718

although there are some points i dislike about that interior, i still like the overall direction of hyundai's movement

some improvements on that center stack would be required though.. that thing looks cheap and ugly

Costco

Just looks too busy for my taste.

Shift_Acura

It kind of looks like the new Fiesta's interior.

Sonata Interior>This

Kwave82

Wow, very nice

smarty666

I know what you mean. I personally really like the TSX and Regal, with the Regal, I still cannot believe sometimes its a Buick. Hard to believe but its a great sign Buick is going in a good direction. Problem for me though with both the TSX and Regal, the seats are just way to firm for my taste and back problems. I know this is high subjective of course, but after 3 back surgeries, seat comfort is the top contender in making or breaking a car for me now. Even with the lumbar cushion fully depressed it still sticks me in the low back and causes pain. Its a shame b/c I could see myself and either car which makes it even harder to have to say no.

yohan81718

i dig this DRL

YEH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FXqiY1ToWE

Hyundai needs to revise that grill for the refresh.

Otherwise, it looks better than I expected.

yohan81718

i like it. sonata's grille was bad, this grille could be revised, but if they wanted to keep the style, this is better executed i guess

by the way, some of the feature sounds pretty nice

yohan81718

phile

yeah that grille looks like it's melting.

is300eater

I like this better than the Sonata, which is bit too much like a fish...

OT: I'm liking the new Kia Optima more than the Sonata

yohan81718

i'm wondering the price for this car at this point.

Sonata is $30k in Korea vs $20k in US

Genesis is $55k in Korea vs $35k in US

So, I assume this new HG Grandeur (aka Azera in US) would fall around $40k in Korea and $29k in US?