Costco

Old fashioned OHC is an older technology than OHV.

There isn't a OHC V8 out there that matches the LSx series for the power/price/fuel economy factor, period. And if you think the LS3 is the basically the same engine that was in your dad's Chevy II, think again.

Not to mention the countless new technologies that they're implementing into their recent engines, new or not. They no longer are relying on their 4 and 6-cyl pushrod turd engines of the 80's. GM has direct injection, turbodiesels, displacement on demand, sometimes two of the technologies in one engine. And Honda has which of these in their current engines?

Engines were the very least of GM's problems

JD23

If displacement on demand is similar to Honda's VCM, then Honda does indeed have it. However, in terms of performance, it's preferable to have engines without VCM.

Costco

I was just saying to prove a point that GM is not using archaic technology as some people would like to think. Its the exact opposite of the truth.... they've implemented ethanol, hybrid powertrains, direct injection, DI + turbo, turbodiesels, DOD, continuous VVT, etc. on nearly all of their new production vehicles.

Honda also has turbocharged engines, turbodiesels and direct injection. Unfortunately they've only been able to implement the turbocharged engine in one vehicle. Direct injection was only used in a now-discontinued vehicle, and its yet to be introduced in a new vehicle; though it is in development. And everyone was absolutely delighted when the news came that the new TSX was not getting a turbodiesel after all....

I'll agree though..... while in some cases variable displacement does improve economy, it more commonly hampers performance, which inadvertently may end up hurting economy too.

JD23

I'm not arguing that GM is using archaic engine technologies, I just wanted to point out that Honda also has engines with some of the newer technologies that were mentioned.

orange7

it's the acura grill

SSFTSX

Honda is much smaller company than GM and dont operate in all markets and segments.

In terms of Revenue.
1. VW
2. Toyota
3. GM
4. Ford
5. Renault-Nissan
6. Daimler
7. Fiat-Chrysler
8. Peuget-Citroen group

Size of Honda is some where between Hyundai & BMW.

The bigger revenues, the bigger supplier base. More diversified products.
I am pretty sure GM is going to lose No 3 spot this year. maybe go some where 5 or 6 by end of the year. This year alot changes happened in auto land scape.

Will Y.

What is the source/link for your post?
Fortune Magazine seems to indicate that you're mistaken about the revenue rank, as well as a few other things.

The rank for revenue for the auto companies worldwide in 2008 is:
Toyota
GM
Diamler
Ford
VW (incl. Audi)
Honda
Nissan (Renault was reported separately).
-BMW and Hyundai are $30 billion behind Honda in revenue.

With regards to worldwide profits, Toyota had $15B, Honda had $5.2B while VW had $5.6B (with $44B more revenue than Honda ).
BMW and Hyundai generated profits of $4.3B and $1.7B respectively.

For more complete info regarding the above, see http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu.../19/index.html.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

I agree...after the MDX and TSX they just took it too far. The RL and now TL are just aweful!

SSFTSX

your figures are from last years. I am look at 2009 quarterly figures.

Will Y.

What is the source for your conclusions (since you didn't give "quarterly figures" in your prior post)?

And what are the actual figures, since your conclusions are so different from the 2008 and 2007 annual numbers?

Oh, and VW's worldwide 2009 1Q revenue fell 11% and profit fell 74%, per the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/bu...obal/23vw.html

Mokos23

this may be their wake up call to get rid of the plenum grille fiasco.

Edward'TLS

Individual Acura dealerships have themselves long since getting a head start to fix the power plenum by offering custom paint jobs to the TL buyers.

JD23

Honda's earnings have been better than those of Toyota and Nissan so far this year, so I don't think the grille can be blamed for having much of an effect on earnings. If you think that Honda's drop in sales is caused by the plenum, then GM, Chrysler, Toyota and Nissan must have had an even worse set of grilles.

SSFTSX

VW has earning decline but Toyota has $7.7b quarterly loss. They will be lucky for less than $20b loss for year and 45% revenue decline.
One hint. Overpriced Audis are not that much effected as lexus brand.


http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/05/...misery-parade/
Toyota's earnings join the misery parade

Will Y.

So again, what is your source link for the "2009 quarterly figures" that you supposedly rely on for your prior posts?
Your link is just an article about Toyota and has no mention of VW or 1Q 2009 revenue figures for any other company.

I am giving you the courtesy of assuming you are not just posting unverifiable .

Colin

This short film titled "Kick out the Ladder" is a part of a series of short documentaries by Honda. I'm sure our readership here will have plenty snarky comments, but I thought the piece is well done and the message heartfelt.

http://dreams.honda.com/videos/kick-out-the-ladder/

There are three others in this series, with the fifth segment, "Racing Against Time", due on October 19th.

Colin

Dreams vs. Nightmares features discussion on how dreams can shape our world. About 2/3s of the way through, Michelle Christenson talks a bit about her experiences growing up around cars and how proud she was when the ZDX debuted.

http://dreams.honda.com/videos/dreams-vs-nightmares/

cp3117

Damn....after reading the title "Kick out the Ladder" I thought this was going to be a Documentary on the NSX development team.

Sorry Colin as i couldnt resist.

Thanks for the post Colin as I thought it was very interesting and im interested in seeing what the Oct 19th one is about.

Colin

We all sit here and bitch and moan about every little thing that we wish this car had or didn't have. It's easy to forget that there are people our there who work hard to design and build these cars.

Moog-Type-S

I'm sure this could be said for the Pontiac Aztek as well. :wink:

vybzkartel

You guys are cruel, lol!

Colin

I know you're kidding a bit, but that's worth a closer look. Do you really think that any GM (short of a Corvette), is designed and assembled with the same passion? I don't. It's a cute response, but if you look deeper, I doubt its true. IMO, there is a world of difference between the corporate culture at Honda vs. GM.

cp3117

Colin

LOL, one is bankrupt and the other profitable. That would change a lot of culture.....

neuronbob

I love this series of short films. It is the philosophy espoused in these films that keeps me a fan of Honda even though I don't agree with every move they've made recently.

Thanks for the link, Colin. You continue to be a credit for both Acura and this site.

Legend2TL

I loved the "Failure, the Secret to Success" short movie.

Never forget watching a CART race in the mid-90's Bobby Rahal's Honda V8 blew up and he ranted on national TV coverage about the seemingly never ending blowups of Honda's racing motors. The main issue was the torsional rigidity of the stress member crankcase was flexing enough to cause the crank to contact the main bearings and create spectacular engine yardsales. Rahal then and now owned a Honda dealership. Then the TV interviewer shifted to then US Honda president Tom Elliot who was at the race how he felt about the problems. Quite the PR disaster but in 1996 they finally solved their technical issues with the Champ motors and went on their way to the many championships.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ I had been following the Honda Indy entries back in the 90's. Tough luck for Bobby Rahal and his team. As soon as Bobby dropped Honda as his engine supplier, Honda-powered cars started to dominate the field, winning races and sweeping championship titles years after years.

F23A4

The motto is aptly named, as I'm dreaming of a RWD V8 Honda sports sedan. That said, Chrysler's development team should take a gander at the passion of their Honda counterparts. (Caveat: I know Chrysler's pitiful products are not entirely the fault of their development team and they're probably handcuffed by their bean counters)

On topic, this commitment is one of the reasons why I did opt for my 07 AV6 over its counterparts.

Sarlacc

You can bash chrysler products all you want. You really can, no sarcasm.

BUT, the challenger stands out in their group. There are a couple factory workers from the brampton plant (where the chally is built) who are active on the chally forum. They will even sign you car on the line if you send them your VIN. And they are passionate about the car they are building.

And that particular product is far from pitiful.

Legend2TL

The team that won out was Ganassi when they won 4 straight CART championships starting in 96 with Honda.

Another Honda failure story was the old man wanted to know the results of Honda F1 engines in the early mid 80's no matter what time it was (most often in the middle of the night). Fukui would make the call often as he would sometimes go to the races.

F23A4

I really DON'T want to but when I see them asking $40k for a Charger SRT8 and then note a fit/finish and ergonomic design that would NOT pass the muster on a $15k Honda Fit, I just feel like 'throwing it' right in Chrysler's face.

Kudos to the Challenger builders for their commitment to a competent assembly but, its unfortunate that their efforts are not enough to circumvent shoddy ergonomic design and low budget parts. If not Honda or Toyotal, Chrysler should at least check out the inroads made by Ford and GM.

Moog-Type-S

I'm with the Sarlacc on the challenger.....Exterior. It's fantastic.

However Chrysler fell on its sword with the parts bin interior......so sad when the concept had such a fantastic interior.

I agree with you that for 40k, that interior does not cut it whatsoever in both design and quality of materials.

Sarlacc

Sigh, neither of you have sat in a Challenger. The quality of materials is quite nice. And feeling of the fit and finish is solid. I happen to like the interior design a lot. Nice easy and simple, much like the older hondas I had.

I really liked the concept interior as well...but I see those pictures now, and I just dont think I'd be happy with it over the years if I owned that car long term.

The worst part of the interior is the steering wheel, which is still livable, which is rumored to get a new custom wheel for the 2011 MY.

Moog-Type-S

True, I have not sat in the Challenger (for fear I might buy it if I did :wink: )

...but the interior design does not scream 40k

Sarlacc

With the J package (leather) Its pretty nice for a 40k dollar retro muscle car.

Much nicer than my 99 CL ever was inside.

We arent talking about luxury cars, or entry luxury cars. Its a muscle car...its a nice and better built interior than the other 2 have to offer. And I dont hate the other two either.

Moog-Type-S

^^ I hope it's better than a 10 year old car.

You think the Challenger has a better interior than the Camaro?

Sure the Camaro has lots of body colored hard plastic panels on the dash and doors, but the interior is unique, similar to the concept, whereas the Challenger looks like the interior could have been from a Caliber.
Not saying that the Challenger interior is "cheap", but rather that it does not look "purpose built" for the muscle car that is the Challenger.

Sarlacc

The challenger interior is a bit retro design to the older challengers when you look at pics of the two.

I do like the camaro design. I have yet to sit in one, but a lot of people have complained about the quality vs the challenger. I need to experience it for myself.

And as much I do like the design, I also think its a bit "cluttered"

Moog-Type-S

I see what you are talking about in the door panels, and the angle at the front of the gear shift area....4 gauges across.....yea there are some similarities....but you gotta look for 'em.

TSX69

Honda Profit Soars 5 Fold from Previous Year

TOKYO (AP) -- Honda's quarterly profit soared sixfold on cost cuts and strong sales of green vehicles, boosting the Japanese automaker's full year forecast as the global car market gradually recovers.

Tokyo-based Honda Motor Co. said Wednesday it booked net profit of 134.6 billion yen ($1.49 billion) for the October-December quarter and predicted its first increase in full year profit in two years, underlining a recovery in world auto sales.

The results were better than the 74 billion yen ($818 million) profit forecast by analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters.

The Japanese automaker, known for the Insight hybrid, Accord sedan and Odyssey minivan, reported an 11.5 percent drop in sales for the quarter at 2.24 trillion yen ($24.8 billion), partly because of the strong yen.

Honda has weathered the auto slump better than some of its bigger rivals because of its strength in emerging markets and its solid motorcycle division.

Honda managed to stay in the black for the quarter ended Dec. 31, 2008, when other Japanese automakers, such as Toyota Motor Corp., sank into losses. Honda eked out a 20.2 billion yen profit for that period.

In months ahead, Honda could stand to benefit from the woes of Toyota, which has recalled 4.5 million vehicles globally -- more than half of them in North America -- for problems with accelerator pedals that can stick, possibly causing crashes.

Honda is not offering the incentives in the U.S. that General Motors Co., Hyundai Motor Co. and Ford Motor Co. are using to woo Toyota owners to buy their cars. But Honda's Accord dethroned the Toyota Camry as the best-selling car in the U.S. for January.

The Camry, the top-seller in the U.S. for the last eight years, is among the eight models that Toyota has recalled and stopped selling and producing because of gas-pedal problems.

Honda has also announced a fairly large recall of its own, covering 646,000 Fit hatchbacks because of a glitch that could cause water to enter the power window mechanism, causing components to overheat.

The recall, announced last week, covers North America, Asia, Latin America, Europe and South Africa. In some countries, the Fit was sold as the Jazz and City.

The company raised its profit forecast for the fiscal year through March 2010 for the third time to 265 billion yen ($2.9 billion), almost double the 137 billion yen profit it had posted the previous year, and its first annual profit rise in two years.

In October, Japan's No. 2 automaker had raised its profit forecast to 155 billion yen ($1.7 billion), nearly four times its initial outlook, citing sales boosts from government-backed green incentive programs and strong China sales.

On Wednesday, it stuck to its full-year global sales projection of 3.4 million vehicles, down 3.3 percent from 3.5 million for the fiscal year ended March 2009.

But it now expects slightly better sales at 8.53 trillion yen ($94.3 billion), compared to its earlier forecast of 8.45 trillion yen.

For the quarter ended Dec. 31, Honda sold 914,000 vehicles around the world, down 2.8 percent from 940,000 vehicles a year earlier, as sales dropped in North America and Europe, in contrast to strong sales in Japan and other parts of Asia such as China and India.

Quarterly sales in Japan surged 31 percent to 177,000 vehicles, led by the Insight and Fit. Such fuel-efficient models are a hit in Japan, where the government is offering incentives for green vehicles, including making hybrids tax-free.

Honda said a strong yen erased 57 billion yen ($630 million) in quarterly income.

For the nine months through December, Honda's profit slipped 38.1 percent from the same period the previous year to 196.2 billion yen ($2 billion) on 6.3 trillion yen ($70 billion) sales, down 23.4 percent.

Other Japanese automakers are also likely to report rosier numbers compared to the doldrums of the previous year.

Mitsubishi Motors Corp. on Wednesday posted its first quarterly profit since July-September 2008. It earned 10.7 billion yen ($118.3 million) in October-December, a turnaround from a loss of 17.5 billion yen a year earlier.

Toyota reports earnings Thursday, Mazda Motor Corp. on Friday and Nissan on Tuesday.

Honda shares jumped 2.3 percent to 3,140 yen in Tokyo.

neuronbob

Damn I need to buy Honda stock. Their conservatism has led them go succeed in this downturn.

I sure wish they'd put some of that profit into Acura, STAT! Put that RWD/V8 platform back on the table, for example.