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Originally Posted by phile
(Post 12331639)
in the reviews so far, it's mentioned Honda's aware of the AWD market, and it's something like 5%, so they weren't interested in it.
which is a shame cause those of us who do live in areas where we get inclement weather would like such a thing. Plus I'm sure 5 percent of Odyssey sales is much more than 5 percent of TL sales. |
Its probably a solid state drive.
The USB would have been nice as well. I don't get why they leave out such basic features. |
someone brought up a good point about the second row seats too. they now have the ability to scoot out wider to accommodate 3 baby chairs. so why not just make the seats that wider, permanently?
there is no reason why the sliding tracks for the doors are so wide. I was driving around and noticed on the current Odyssey the sliding tracks don't really look so bad. So when i compared pics, the current Odyssey actually has a thinner sliding track and it stops short just before hitting the rear of the van. in the new one, it goes all the way to the taillights. |
Originally Posted by Mourning Would
(Post 12331614)
I think Honda would be content to put SH-AWD and nothing else (unless they can derive a possibly cheaper AWD without torque vectoring) on the Odyssey which will probably make it too expensive.
So while Honda has all the 'bits' to do it, it's probably not worth re-engineering the whole chassis for an incremental increase in sales. Who knows, with a rear diff, they might have to resubmit it for crash testing, EPA mileage testing etc. So an extra 5% is what, 3500-4000 units? I doubt the profits from this would pay for the work to make it happen. |
Originally Posted by Colin
(Post 12331994)
The VTM-4 system is essentially SH but without side to side torque vectoring. This was developed for the 1st gen MDX and used in the Pilot (correct me if I"m wrong) However, the rear diff is pretty large and the driveshaft + diff would (probably) have compromised the spare tire and magic seat operation or raised the floor (or both).
So while Honda has all the 'bits' to do it, it's probably not worth re-engineering the whole chassis for an incremental increase in sales. Who knows, with a rear diff, they might have to resubmit it for crash testing, EPA mileage testing etc. So an extra 5% is what, 3500-4000 units? I doubt the profits from this would pay for the work to make it happen. As far as not being compatible with the current chassis.... lack of foresight? :shrug: The 2G Sienna had a fold flat seat and AWD also. Not sure about the 2011+, but I think it would be safe to assume its the same... never got the chance to try it. I can see their reasoning, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it. |
Originally Posted by Mourning Would
(Post 12332059)
As far as not being compatible with the current chassis.... lack of foresight? :shrug: The 2G Sienna had a fold flat seat and AWD also. Not sure about the 2011+, but I think it would be safe to assume its the same... never got the chance to try it. I can see their reasoning, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.
Looking for an AWD minivan? The 2011 Toyota Sienna is the only game in town. As with the previous generation, the new all-wheel-drive package won't accommodate a spare tire. Hence, Toyota continues to use run-flat tires - a solution that was not well received by owners of the last-generation van. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 12331905)
Its probably a solid state drive.
The USB would have been nice as well. I don't get why they leave out such basic features. |
Originally Posted by MyCarIsntInMyWifesName
(Post 12331903)
Didn't Honda anticpate the manual TL only making up 5 percent of TL sales? And yet they went for it.
Plus I'm sure 5 percent of Odyssey sales is much more than 5 percent of TL sales. |
Shame about the 6AT and HID's only being available on the upper models, but overall looks very nice.
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Front doesn't look so bad, sides and rear. :hurl:
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i like it... looks very clean and modern. It's amazing how few black minivans I see
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I like it in black too, but they need to clean up that rear/side track.
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
(Post 12331872)
Does any one else think that a 2gb HD is kind of a joke? I mean really. In the days of 80 dollar 1TB hard drives i think they could have splurged a little and at least have given a 30-60?????
Maybe with the exception of Ford & MS Sync, most automakers are behind the curve on this kind of tech....and charge obscene amounts of money for it. |
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 12330016)
My thoughts about the Sienna vs Oddy:
Sienna has 6 speed tranny...nope for Honda....unless you spend HUGE coin. Sienna hs 2 engine options....nope for Honda Sienna has AWD....nope for Honda Sienna has keyless start....nope for Honda Sienna exterior edges out the win over Honda.....only because the Honda is "odd" looking Honda wins interior by a slight edge.....drawback is too many buttons on the Honda. - 4 cylinder for a big van is too weak. - Snow tires. - Not big deal to me. The new Sienna sees some cutting compared to the previous gen. My bet is that the new Odyssey should be better interior quality wise. Odyssey does seem more expensive, especially annoying that some common features (USB, bluetooth, 3rd row sunshades) are not available on EX, while Sienna LE has them. Odyssey should win in terms of handling. Yeah I'd like to see a comparison with Sienna SE. |
Luxury MiniVans on the Way
Minivans, the conventional wisdom goes, are so '80s and early '90s. Young families today want sporty crossovers. But for those households choosing a minivan, it still comes down to comfort, convenience and lots of high-end entertainment -- even in these frugal times. Whether it has a power sliding door and liftgate, stowable seating, dual moon roofs, or backup camera, each new minivan seems to set a another benchmark. For the first time, the average transaction price for a new minivan has passed the $30,000 mark this year to reach $30,430, according to J.D. Power and Associates. Demand for the Chrysler Town & Country, one of the segment's most richly appointed minivans, is up 35% this year. Honda Motor Co. didn't invent the minivan, but it has quietly exploited the American family's desire for the plush minivan while Kia and Dodge battle for the thrifty buyer. Some 70% of Odyssey's purchased in the United States today are well-equipped with heated leather seats and other fine amenities. In the Honda family, only the Pilot comes remotely close to selling leather seats like that. Chrysler says 34% of Town & Country minivans are sold with leather seating. Even with all those cowhide captain's chairs rolling down the freeway, Honda says a high-level premium model has been missing in the minivan segment for a while. So it has reached higher with the redesigned 2011 Odyssey. The new Touring Elite model will be the most luxurious Honda minivan ever. In addition to a long list of goodies -- 6-speed automatic, acoustic wind shield, ambient foot-well lighting, parking sensors and more -- the Odyssey 'Elite' is furnished with a 650-watt premium surround sound audio system with 12 -- yes, 12 – speakers; a 16.2-inch VGA ultrawide rear display with available split screens; HDMI input; auto leveling HID headlights; and 2 auxiliary inputs. Honda said today it will sticker for $43,250, plus another $780 for destination charges. That's well north of the average transaction price of $30,234 for a mid-sized van sold in July and August, according to J.D. Power. And when you add dealer extras like a roof rack and splash guards, it's within range of the average transaction price of $47,428 for a mid-sized premium CUV such as the Mercedes-Benz R class. Honda expects the Touring model to represent 17% of Odyssey sales, and the Touring Elite version to account for another 5% of demand. That's a sweet chunk of business for a model line expected to generate annual U.S. sales of 110,000 units or more. Can the $50,000 minivan be right around the corner? |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 12329001)
The previous gen was an 8 seater as well. Although I don't think Touring's were as they didn't come with the removable second row center seat.
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Touring Elite sounds like a sweet package. i would get that - used
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I really don't like the jagged line under the side windows, really mess's with the flow of the side profile.
Originally Posted by SHYUperman
(Post 12333895)
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Originally Posted by TSX69
(Post 12342000)
...the Odyssey 'Elite' is furnished with a 650-watt premium surround sound audio system with 12 -- yes, 12 – speakers; a 16.2-inch VGA ultrawide rear display with available split screens; HDMI input; auto leveling HID headlights; and 2 auxiliary inputs.
... I'm really envious of that 16.2" display and 12 speaker sound system, puts the little 7" display and 7 speaker system in our 2003 Pilot to shame. |
Originally Posted by Speed_Racer
(Post 12342189)
Yeah, the previous gen Tourings were 8 seaters. I think that started in '08 when they didn't include a center console with the Tourings and had the removable center seat as standard.
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To my knowledge only the EX-Ls have ever been 8 seaters.
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Let me go out and check if the EX I've owned for 3 years has 8 seats.
Yup, its an 8 seater. :D Different options in :canada: Even with this new Ody. We get an EX-RES and EX-L's and above all have RES standard. Our EX also comes standard with the 8" screen with a back-up camera which is only EX-L and higher in the US. We also don't get an Elite, although our Touring is equipped like a US Elite. Different Minivan market up here where our top selling vehicle is the Dodge Caravan. |
12 speakers? Thats it? The Equus has 17 speakers and like 700 watts. Weaksauce :snicker:
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Originally Posted by MyCarIsntInMyWifesName
(Post 12344080)
To my knowledge only the EX-Ls have ever been 8 seaters.
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
(Post 12344389)
12 speakers? Thats it? The Equus has 17 speakers and like 700 watts. Weaksauce :snicker:
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Originally Posted by Speed_Racer
(Post 12344724)
Our '08 Touring is an 8 seater. I'm glad they went that route, because we had wanted the Touring in '07, but had to settle for 7 seats. You couldn't even just buy a center row seat because of the seatbelt (new headliner and belt assembly).
Careers are a son of a bitch.
Originally Posted by Hapa DC5
(Post 12345090)
:ibssftsx: tells you about the Odyssey's superior ground clearance, seating, and cargo capacity!
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2011 Honda Odyssey pricier, fancier -- uglier?
You might see that sheet metal dogleg just in front of the rear wheel as some kind of ugly mismatch, as if the factory installed panels that don't align. But Honda thinks you'll instead imagine a distinctive lightning bolt portrayed by the side styling of the 2011 Odyssey minivan, priced from $28,580 for the LX starter model Interior gets a makeover in the 2011 Honda Odyssey minivan, on sale Sept. 30to $44,030 for the Touring Elite. The redesigned Odyssey goes on sale Sept. 30. Honda has changed the list of standard features as well as the model lineup, making head-to-head comparisons tricky, but the 2011 is roughly 3% to 4% more expensive than the 2010. The Odyssey base prices are several thousand dollars more than those of the recently redesigned 2011 Toyota Sienna minivan, which range from $25,220 for the base, four-cylinder version to $40,730 for the Limited V-6 all-wheel drive (awd) model. But 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite -- the top model, priced $44,030 -- includes a dual-view screen for the rear entertainment system. It will display different programs from different sources to keep the kids from fighting over what to watch. Toyota pioneered the dual-view setup in the redesigned 2011 Sienna minivan. Toyota charges extra for some features that are standard on the Honda (dual-view rear entertainment screen on high-end models, for example). Toyota said its price increase on the 2011 Sienna was just $200, or less than 1%, on average. But you may not get the Odyssey of your dreams: Honda has no four-cylinder Odyssey, no all wheel drive version, and doesn't camouflage the sliding door track as do Toyota and Chrysler (the latter not taken very seriously by Honda though Chrysler sells the most minivans). Tucking the ugly slider gash along the lower edge of the rear window, as rivals do, would require moving the power-door motors up, where they'd cut into second-row shoulder room, Honda says. The top Odyssey models, Touring and Touring Elite (the 40 grand-plus versions) come with a six-speed automatic transmission (6AT) instead of the five-speed (5AT) on lower models. You get just one more mile per gallon from the 6AT. But Honda insists it's used to boost performance, not necessarily mileage. Not that we're at all cynical, but we wouldn't be surprised if the 6AT started out in development as an mpg play, but results were less than expected and so is being portrayed as a get-up-and-go feature. We can tell you from our test driving in southern California (in temperatures up to 107 degrees) that the 5AT works quite well; you won't feel as if you didn't get the "good one" if you can't or won't pay 40 large for a family van. And we can report that the Odyssey seemed more refined and quieter than the Toyota Sienna. We'll give you a full report on the 2011 Odyssey in a future Test Drive column. |
Quieter than the Sienna eh? That's good. Odysseys had a bit of road noise that was more than necessary.
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^^ It's more than a bit.....they are very noisy at highway speed.
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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html
Some interesting points. You can get an Odyssey with a six-speed, but you still can't choose your own gears, and it's available only in the Odyssey Touring, which starts at $41,535. I won't say who said it, but one editor opined, "Honda needs to pull its head out of its ass and offer [the six-speed automatic] across the board." Agreed Here's why: The Odyssey's high-tech, VVT 3.5-liter V-6 with cylinder deactivation managed 21.1 mpg over 11 laps of our roughly 30-mile mixed driving loop. The Toyota Sienna, meanwhile, with its comparatively low-tech (i.e., no cylinder deactivation), 3.5-liter V-6, managed 21.3 mpg. And the Toyota makes 17 more horsepower than the Honda, 265 compared with 248. Equipped with the six-speed and cylinder deactivation, the Odyssey would have likely added 1 mpg (as the Touring does in city and highway EPA ratings). The Sienna is the best-looking minivan of the three, and probably the best-looking on the road. True, some of our judges liked the Odyssey's "lightning bolt" window-line kink, but to my eyes that droop looks deformed. And the exposed tracks for the sliding doors seem an afterthought in terms of design. The official excuse is that the ugly slashes allow the Honda to offer more interior third-row shoulder space, but that's bunk because the narrower Sienna manages more shoulder room with tidy door tracks. Sad to say, for Toyota, edgy good looks and sporty handling are not why people purchase minivans. Really, it's all about the interior. "Just a different league," executive editor Ed Loh crooned about the Odyssey EX-L. "This could wear an Acura logo on the steering wheel." That's very true, as in terms of quality of materials the Honda is miles ahead of the other two. The leather and soft plastics are higher quality, and even the buttons click better. 1st Place: Toyota Sienna SE Brilliant (for a minivan) driving dynamics and intelligent second- and third-row packaging make for the smartest choice. The good looks don't hurt its case. 2nd Place: Honda Odyssey EX-L The rich interior isn't enough to make up for this giant's doldrums driving dynamics or goofy exterior treatment. Interior packaging isn't as good as in the Toyota, either. 3rd Place: Dodge Caravan SXT Stow 'n' Go is still good enough to let this otherwise dated Dodge play with the big boys. A refresh is coming, and not a minute too soon. Fuel efficieny is a bit of a let down but interior quality sounds great. |
I have no idea what they're smoking if they think the Sienna looks great. Aside from the distracting side tracks, the Odyssey looks way more polished than the Sienna. Inside and outside.
but I agree - Honda needs to make that 6-spd standard like the Sienna. Glad to see its acceleration # greatly improved from the 10-sec 0-60 outgoing Odyssey - but this is with the 6-spd auto. I wonder how much slower the 5-spd automatic is vs the 6-spd Odyssey. is it still at a dismal 10 seconds when all the Sienna V6's are outrunning it from a standstill? |
It was an EX-L in this test which has the 5 speed. Apparently the 6 speed is aimed at performance so you should see an improvement to the 7.9 sec time this EX-L put down.
And I don't think I've ever seen the previous gen clocked as high as 10 sec. More like mid 8's. |
Hey Dom, are avatars enabled for you? Cause they are for me... :spit:
The Sienna V6 has some decent get up and go with the 6AT and V6. Great gas mileage too. Interior is mediocre, nothing more. |
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Not sure if this was already posted but Edmunds places the Odyssey first.
Gotta love the comments about the styling for both. - lol Sure, some say the 2011 Honda Odyssey looks like a side-by-side refrigerator-freezer. Others criticize its beltline hitch and not-so-subtle door-slider track, but whether you're talking about seating configuration or slalom performance, the Honda Odyssey Touring Elite is the ultimate minivan of 2011. Sienna detractors might say it looks like a hospital gurney with a satin sheet thrown over it, and that it handles like a gurney to boot. However, if you're looking for an extremely low-impact, smooth and quiet minivan (or one with a four-cylinder engine or all-wheel drive), there's good reason to consider a 2011 Toyota Sienna. |
Originally Posted by Costco
(Post 12445656)
Hey Dom, are avatars enabled for you? Cause they are for me... :spit:
The Sienna V6 has some decent get up and go with the 6AT and V6. Great gas mileage too. Interior is mediocre, nothing more. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 12445627)
It was an EX-L in this test which has the 5 speed.
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NY Times
Honda Odyssey is the Latest Weapon in the MiniVan Battle http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg THE conventional wisdom is that the minivan is on life support, a victim of drive-by shootings by marauding gangs of part-truck, part-car crossover wagons. But some automakers just won’t pull the plug. While General Motors and Ford abandoned the sliding-door minivan in recent years, Toyota has doubled down with a new version of its Sienna that went on sale in February. Chrysler, which created the modern minivan, is bringing out redesigned Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans around Christmas. Kia has freshened its Sedona with a smaller but more powerful and efficient engine. Nissan has temporarily dropped its Quest while it prepares to introduce a new version early next year. Among mass-market minivan makers that leaves Honda, which has redesigned its Odyssey — America’s favorite minivan the last 2 years — for 2011. While the van shows improvements in features, room and fuel economy, its driving dynamics, which had previously made it the sportiest-feeling minivan, seem to have suffered. This 4th-generation Odyssey, which went on sale Sept. 30, replaces a version that made its debut as a 2005 model. The new van is the 1st one developed by a team of Honda engineers in the United States — based in Ohio — and is built at the same Alabama plant where the previous model was made. The new model is slightly longer, lower and wider. It not only looks more jaunty, with a body-side character line extending forward from the boldly shaped rear side window, its slicker aerodynamics aid fuel economy. All 2011 Odysseys come with a 3.5-liter V-6 engine rated at 248 horsepower. This is an improved version of the previous engine, with 4 more horsepower and 5 pound-feet of torque. The V-6 can still run on only 3 or 4 of its 6 cylinders when full power isn’t needed. The new Odyssey comes in 7 trim levels with prices ranging from $28,580 to $44,030. 2 transmissions are available, including Honda’s 1st 6-speed automatic, which comes only on the Touring ($41,535) or a new top-line version called the Touring Elite ($44,030). Other trim levels get the 5-speed: the basic LX, the EX and 3 variations of the EX-L — the “L” stands for leather. The Odyssey’s chief engineer, Art St. Cyr, said the 6-speed wasn’t offered across the board because Honda wanted to hold down the price of the LX while imparting a “more premium” driving feel to Touring models with a smoother, quicker transmission. A comparison shopper might note, however, that while Honda puts the admission price for a 6-speed above $40,000, all Toyota Siennas have 6-speeds, for as little as $26,510. Odysseys with the 5-speed get better mileage than before (2 m.p.g. more in town, 4 more on the highway). And 6-speed models beat the comparable Sienna by 1 m.p.g. in town and 4 m.p.g. on the highway. Low-rolling-resistance tires account for some of the gain. I briefly drove an EX with the 5-speed transmission — which worked just fine — and spent a week with a preproduction example of the 6-speed Touring Elite. This fanciest of Odysseys has everything: leather, sunroof, rear-seat entertainment system with a 16-inch-wide split screen, navigation system, 18-inch wheels, parking sensors, premium audio system and blind-spot sensors. Safety features on all Odysseys include antilock brakes, electronic stability control, active head restraints and 6 air bags, including curtain bags in all three rows to protect occupants’ heads in side impact crashes. The Sienna goes the Odyssey one better with a driver’s knee air bag. Mr. St. Cyr said the engineers tried to make features simpler and more intuitive — by, for instance, moving handles on the 2nd-row seats. The 3rd row, which seats 3 and is split 60-40, folds cleanly into the floor with one tug of a strap. The new interior has some nice features for on-the-move families. A “cool box” below the gearshift can chill six 12-ounce cans or 4 20-ounce bottles. A new center console between the driver and passenger seats is large enough to hold a purse, and it can be removed to create a walk-through to the 2nd row. The base LX seats 7 with 2 captain’s chairs in the 2nd row; other versions seat 8 with a center seat position that is 3.9 inches wider than before. Folded down, the seatback can be used as an armrest, cupholder and tray. You can slide that center seat forward or backward 5.5 inches to bring an infant closer to parents in the front row. And while that’s a nice touch, the Sienna’s 2nd-row seats can move 23 inches. The 2nd row has “wide mode” seating that allows each of the 2 outer seats to move laterally 1.5 inches each. Doing this creates a bit more room if 3 people or child seats are in the 2nd row. I had looked forward to driving the new Odyssey. The last generation of the van was a joy on the road — at least by minivan standards — with steering that had enough weight to establish a connection to the pavement and impart a sense of confidence on turns. Its downside was a ride that some critics (myself included) considered a little stiff. With the 2011 Odyssey, my main problem was the steering feel at speeds below 45 m.p.h. At these lower speeds I found the steering so light that it lacked a feeling of connection with the road. The overassisted steering was not simply in my imagination — it was designed that way. Mr. St. Cyr said Honda wanted the van to have generally lighter steering feel. Customers had complained, he said, that the previous model’s steering was too heavy, causing arm fatigue on long drives. I would have preferred keeping the old steering and advising the whiners to do a few bicep curls. In back-to-back drives with the new Toyota Sienna, the Odyssey felt more nimble and quicker to change direction. But that driving pleasure is undermined by the light steering feel. When I reviewed the new Sienna for these pages in June, I said the steering was light and vague. That is still the case, but the new Odyssey’s steering is even more disappointing. I also found the Sienna to ride more comfortably. You feel road imperfections more in the Odyssey, along with more vibration and harshness. The Odyssey seemed a bit more noisy. Americans liked the old Odyssey; it was the best-selling minivan in 2008-9, according to J. D. Power & Associates (although the Chrysler Town & Country is the sales leader so far this year). Honda hopes to sell more than 110,000 of the new models each year. That may be a challenge. For all its other virtues Honda has jeopardized the Odyssey’s distinctive advantage as the “sporty minivan” just as the Sienna has become more competitive and other new vans are warming up. |
The Odyssey’s chief engineer, Art St. Cyr, said the 6-speed wasn’t offered across the board because Honda wanted to hold down the price of the LX |
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