Honda "Greenest Automaker"
12-08-2004, 11:01 AM
#1
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Honda "Greenest Automaker"
Union of Concerned Scientists names Honda 'Greenest Automaker'
Torrance, California - The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) has named Honda as the 2004 Greenest Automaker in the organization's biennial ranking of car manufacturers' environmental performance. It's the third consecutive number one ranking of Honda in the UCS study.
Compared with the UCS's 2002 findings, Honda actually increased its lead over other automakers in reducing both greenhouse gas and tailpipe emissions across the full range of its product lineup. According to the UCS, Honda increased its lead by building vehicles that produce less than half the smog-forming pollutants of the industry average and 18 percent less heat-trapping emissions.
"Honda is in a class of its own when it comes to producing clean cars and trucks," said David Friedman, Research Director of UCS's Clean Vehicles Program and lead author of the report.
The UCS study, titled Automaker Rankings 2004: The Environmental Performance of Car Companies, is the third installment of the only comprehensive ranking of automakers' environmental performance. The report analyzes the six largest automakers in the U.S. market, which together account for nine out of every 10 vehicles sold in this country. The study evaluates data on smog-forming pollution and heat-trapping emissions from each vehicle manufacturer's fleet using model year 2003 sales information and certification standards. The report rates the pollution performance of the average vehicle produced by each company; total sales volume does not influence the results.
Torrance, California - The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) has named Honda as the 2004 Greenest Automaker in the organization's biennial ranking of car manufacturers' environmental performance. It's the third consecutive number one ranking of Honda in the UCS study.
Compared with the UCS's 2002 findings, Honda actually increased its lead over other automakers in reducing both greenhouse gas and tailpipe emissions across the full range of its product lineup. According to the UCS, Honda increased its lead by building vehicles that produce less than half the smog-forming pollutants of the industry average and 18 percent less heat-trapping emissions.
"Honda is in a class of its own when it comes to producing clean cars and trucks," said David Friedman, Research Director of UCS's Clean Vehicles Program and lead author of the report.
The UCS study, titled Automaker Rankings 2004: The Environmental Performance of Car Companies, is the third installment of the only comprehensive ranking of automakers' environmental performance. The report analyzes the six largest automakers in the U.S. market, which together account for nine out of every 10 vehicles sold in this country. The study evaluates data on smog-forming pollution and heat-trapping emissions from each vehicle manufacturer's fleet using model year 2003 sales information and certification standards. The report rates the pollution performance of the average vehicle produced by each company; total sales volume does not influence the results.
12-08-2004, 11:05 AM
#2
who's right, who's wrong?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 47
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite impressive, though it does show Honda's focus. While we'd all love for Honda to send us more sports-oriented cars, their main objective right now seems to be low-emissions vehicles. That said, Nissan came in second and with offerings like the G35c and the 350z in their lineup (as well as having trucks and large SUV's), I think it's entirely possible to have the best of both worlds (i.e. performance and environmental friendliness).
Good for Honda.
Good for Honda.
12-08-2004, 12:20 PM
#3
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by jaydub
I think it's entirely possible to have the best of both worlds (i.e. performance and environmental friendliness).
Good for Honda.
Good for Honda.
12-09-2004, 08:22 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
too bad they didnt mention if they took into consideration the fact honda has no trucks and have no big engines at all which would greatly skew the results. This is the disadvantage of comparing fleets from automakers when the makeup of the fleet is so different. Honda has very few models say compared to GM, and has a limited model line of economy cars and no commerical vehicles.
12-09-2004, 08:40 AM
#7
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by gilboman
too bad they didnt mention if they took into consideration the fact honda has no trucks and have no big engines at all which would greatly skew the results. This is the disadvantage of comparing fleets from automakers when the makeup of the fleet is so different. Honda has very few models say compared to GM, and has a limited model line of economy cars and no commerical vehicles.
Well as usual, weak comments.
Of course, they don't need to mention that Honda doesn't build big engines and V8's etc., because it is not their vocation. Honda doesn't build big engines on purpose: it would not fit with their environmental goals. Why do you think they are investing so much in Hybrid, to the point where no one as of yet is more advanced than them with that technology?
Actually, in a sense, they are a company that's still expanding it's line of vehicles. The Ridgeline is an introduction to light trucks, maybe in a few years they will actually hit the market with a full-size pickup, but you can be sure that once they do it, it's going to be the same thing as when they introduced their Diesel engine, the SH-AWD and their brand new Direct Injection I-Vtec: They're late to the game, but they show how it's done. They'll be introducing it with class-leading low emissions, you can be pretty sure of that. Put your money on a big Hybrid V6, or something likewise.
But you're dishonest if you say Honda doesn't produce big engines, and it is why they are the greenest. They don't produce them, because they don't want to, because they have emissions among their top priorities. You can't dis them because they use the means to achieve their goals!
And Honda has a limited car line-up with little or no trucks or commercial vehicles? So what? How about Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, VW, etc., etc.? And where do they stand in the hierarchy of polluting cars?
Trending Topics
12-09-2004, 06:03 PM
#8
Whoa, the return of gilbo...
12-11-2004, 02:42 PM
#10
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by heyitsme
For being such a 'green' company, its strange they having nothing to go up against the prius.
the Civic and Accord Hybrid isn't good enough?
12-11-2004, 06:47 PM
#11
Safety Car
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honestly, no considering neither surpass the prius in economy. I would think a 'green' company would offer hybrid on the better economy 4cylinder accord rather than the 6 to try and make some large mpg gains, to really establish a bar for economy. If they wanted to make an impact with a larger engine it definately should have started with the pilot 6, which Toyota also seems to be doing 1st via highlander/rx.
12-12-2004, 05:18 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sauceman
You're back, you?
Well as usual, weak comments.
Of course, they don't need to mention that Honda doesn't build big engines and V8's etc., because it is not their vocation. Honda doesn't build big engines on purpose: it would not fit with their environmental goals. Why do you think they are investing so much in Hybrid, to the point where no one as of yet is more advanced than them with that technology?
Actually, in a sense, they are a company that's still expanding it's line of vehicles. The Ridgeline is an introduction to light trucks, maybe in a few years they will actually hit the market with a full-size pickup, but you can be sure that once they do it, it's going to be the same thing as when they introduced their Diesel engine, the SH-AWD and their brand new Direct Injection I-Vtec: They're late to the game, but they show how it's done. They'll be introducing it with class-leading low emissions, you can be pretty sure of that. Put your money on a big Hybrid V6, or something likewise.
But you're dishonest if you say Honda doesn't produce big engines, and it is why they are the greenest. They don't produce them, because they don't want to, because they have emissions among their top priorities. You can't dis them because they use the means to achieve their goals!
And Honda has a limited car line-up with little or no trucks or commercial vehicles? So what? How about Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, VW, etc., etc.? And where do they stand in the hierarchy of polluting cars?
Well as usual, weak comments.
Of course, they don't need to mention that Honda doesn't build big engines and V8's etc., because it is not their vocation. Honda doesn't build big engines on purpose: it would not fit with their environmental goals. Why do you think they are investing so much in Hybrid, to the point where no one as of yet is more advanced than them with that technology?
Actually, in a sense, they are a company that's still expanding it's line of vehicles. The Ridgeline is an introduction to light trucks, maybe in a few years they will actually hit the market with a full-size pickup, but you can be sure that once they do it, it's going to be the same thing as when they introduced their Diesel engine, the SH-AWD and their brand new Direct Injection I-Vtec: They're late to the game, but they show how it's done. They'll be introducing it with class-leading low emissions, you can be pretty sure of that. Put your money on a big Hybrid V6, or something likewise.
But you're dishonest if you say Honda doesn't produce big engines, and it is why they are the greenest. They don't produce them, because they don't want to, because they have emissions among their top priorities. You can't dis them because they use the means to achieve their goals!
And Honda has a limited car line-up with little or no trucks or commercial vehicles? So what? How about Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, VW, etc., etc.? And where do they stand in the hierarchy of polluting cars?
nissan has trucks 
and you are seriously deranged if you think green is the reason honda isnt in the truck/big engine segment, they just dont have the resources like a Toyota or GM does to develop it.and i beg to differ on the hybrid technology comment...Toyota's hybrids are more advanced and are full hybrids whereas Honda's are not. Toyota's hybrids can be powered with electric power alone, while other system such as honda's need the gas engine to be on to get the car moving.
the bottom line is to take the findings with a grain of salt, you cant compare a company such as honda with such limited lineup and narrow focus on the market with an automaker like GM which services pretty much all of the market is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. now if the study only compared cars in a segment (e.g. compact, midsize sedan etc..) and then did the study then it would be more meaninful. It's like saying a Hummer is more environmentally friendly than a transit bus b/c it gets better gas milage and better emissions. But it fails to take into account whether beyond 4 wheels if they are the products that are meant for a similar market or purpose.
and being late to the game could also mean they have no enviornemtnal leadership. if toyota's hybrid offerings werent such well recieved do you think honda would have half hybrids out now? highly doubt it. so it took toyota to create the environemtnal car segment so other automakers including honda can follow and bring increased acceptance to a "greener" car.
honda makes small fuel efficient engines because that is their strength, not some BS b/c they are green. if they truly were enviornmentaly concious, they would've done something a long time ago about their polluting outboard and lawnmower motors. Sure their offerings in those markets are not particularly bad in terms of enviornmental performance, but given your unfounded belief in their environmental awareness you would've thought they could've "innovated" some improvements into the dirty emissions of their non car motor products.
and dont get me started about their "green" marketing and how misleading it is especially in the print ads about how somehow an outboard motor is "environmentally friendly", that was good for a laugh. outboard motor and environmentallly friendly are oxymorons just like environmentally friendly disposable diapers which are really quite sad.
now honda "may" be the greenest automaker even after the constraints of their general market and limited lineup is considered, i'm not saying they arent, but from an enviornmetnal iniatiative they have lagged behind toyota and GM.
12-12-2004, 05:58 PM
#13
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gilboman
if honda doesnt want to produce trucks why is it working on them nissan has trucks and you are seriously deranged if you think green is the reason honda isnt in the truck/big engine segment, they just dont have the resources like a Toyota or GM does to develop it.
and i beg to differ on the hybrid technology comment...Toyota's hybrids are more advanced and are full hybrids whereas Honda's are not. Toyota's hybrids can be powered with electric power alone, while other system such as honda's need the gas engine to be on to get the car moving.
the bottom line is to take the findings with a grain of salt, you cant compare a company such as honda with such limited lineup and narrow focus on the market with an automaker like GM which services pretty much all of the market is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. now if the study only compared cars in a segment (e.g. compact, midsize sedan etc..) and then did the study then it would be more meaninful. It's like saying a Hummer is more environmentally friendly than a transit bus b/c it gets better gas milage and better emissions. But it fails to take into account whether beyond 4 wheels if they are the products that are meant for a similar market or purpose.
and being late to the game could also mean they have no enviornemtnal leadership. if toyota's hybrid offerings werent such well recieved do you think honda would have half hybrids out now? highly doubt it. so it took toyota to create the environemtnal car segment so other automakers including honda can follow and bring increased acceptance to a "greener" car.
honda makes small fuel efficient engines because that is their strength, not some BS b/c they are green. if they truly were enviornmentaly concious, they would've done something a long time ago about their polluting outboard and lawnmower motors. Sure their offerings in those markets are not particularly bad in terms of enviornmental performance, but given your unfounded belief in their environmental awareness you would've thought they could've "innovated" some improvements into the dirty emissions of their non car motor products.
and dont get me started about their "green" marketing and how misleading it is especially in the print ads about how somehow an outboard motor is "environmentally friendly", that was good for a laugh. outboard motor and environmentallly friendly are oxymorons just like environmentally friendly disposable diapers which are really quite sad.
now honda "may" be the greenest automaker even after the constraints of their general market and limited lineup is considered, i'm not saying they arent, but from an enviornmetnal iniatiative they have lagged behind toyota and GM.
nissan has trucks and you are seriously deranged if you think green is the reason honda isnt in the truck/big engine segment, they just dont have the resources like a Toyota or GM does to develop it.and i beg to differ on the hybrid technology comment...Toyota's hybrids are more advanced and are full hybrids whereas Honda's are not. Toyota's hybrids can be powered with electric power alone, while other system such as honda's need the gas engine to be on to get the car moving.
the bottom line is to take the findings with a grain of salt, you cant compare a company such as honda with such limited lineup and narrow focus on the market with an automaker like GM which services pretty much all of the market is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. now if the study only compared cars in a segment (e.g. compact, midsize sedan etc..) and then did the study then it would be more meaninful. It's like saying a Hummer is more environmentally friendly than a transit bus b/c it gets better gas milage and better emissions. But it fails to take into account whether beyond 4 wheels if they are the products that are meant for a similar market or purpose.
and being late to the game could also mean they have no enviornemtnal leadership. if toyota's hybrid offerings werent such well recieved do you think honda would have half hybrids out now? highly doubt it. so it took toyota to create the environemtnal car segment so other automakers including honda can follow and bring increased acceptance to a "greener" car.
honda makes small fuel efficient engines because that is their strength, not some BS b/c they are green. if they truly were enviornmentaly concious, they would've done something a long time ago about their polluting outboard and lawnmower motors. Sure their offerings in those markets are not particularly bad in terms of enviornmental performance, but given your unfounded belief in their environmental awareness you would've thought they could've "innovated" some improvements into the dirty emissions of their non car motor products.
and dont get me started about their "green" marketing and how misleading it is especially in the print ads about how somehow an outboard motor is "environmentally friendly", that was good for a laugh. outboard motor and environmentallly friendly are oxymorons just like environmentally friendly disposable diapers which are really quite sad.
now honda "may" be the greenest automaker even after the constraints of their general market and limited lineup is considered, i'm not saying they arent, but from an enviornmetnal iniatiative they have lagged behind toyota and GM.
But I've always wondered... did some Honda executives murder your parents while you watched or something?? I've never understood the nature of your hostility. I don't think I have the level of venom for the Republican party that you have for Honda
12-12-2004, 06:09 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jcg878
Wow, this is a really weak post. I realize that I didn't miss you. Just out of curiousity, which car company created the first hybrid car...
But I've always wondered... did some Honda executives murder your parents while you watched or something?? I've never understood the nature of your hostility. I don't think I have the level of venom for the Republican party that you have for Honda
But I've always wondered... did some Honda executives murder your parents while you watched or something?? I've never understood the nature of your hostility. I don't think I have the level of venom for the Republican party that you have for Honda
but the more important thing is which one was the first to sell a hybrid that actually sold and appealed to consumers (hint: its not honda)?
and i'm not bashing honda here..just that this study is flawed and honda have no enviornmental iniative compared to GM or Toyota; and their green marketing is really misleading.
12-13-2004, 12:02 AM
#16
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i wouldn't quite say honda played catch up on the hybrid game....honda did introduce the hybrid car to america first, so thats taking a big chance. with toyota following honda by introducing the prius. sure the prius was first out in japan but would they have brought it over if honda didn't?
12-13-2004, 07:25 AM
#17
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by gilboman
if honda doesnt want to produce trucks why is it working on them nissan has trucks and you are seriously deranged if you think green is the reason honda isnt in the truck/big engine segment
nissan has trucks and you are seriously deranged if you think green is the reason honda isnt in the truck/big engine segment
Originally Posted by gilboman
they just dont have the resources like a Toyota or GM does to develop it.
Originally Posted by gilboman
and i beg to differ on the hybrid technology comment...Toyota's hybrids are more advanced and are full hybrids whereas Honda's are not. Toyota's hybrids can be powered with electric power alone, while other system such as honda's need the gas engine to be on to get the car moving.
Originally Posted by gilboman
now honda "may" be the greenest automaker even after the constraints of their general market and limited lineup is considered, i'm not saying they arent, but from an enviornmetnal iniatiative they have lagged behind toyota and GM..
Originally Posted by gilboman
the bottom line is to take the findings with a grain of salt, you cant compare a company such as honda with such limited lineup and narrow focus on the market with an automaker like GM which services pretty much all of the market is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. now if the study only compared cars in a segment (e.g. compact, midsize sedan etc..) and then did the study then it would be more meaninful...
Originally Posted by gilboman
and being late to the game could also mean they have no enviornemtnal leadership. if toyota's hybrid offerings werent such well recieved do you think honda would have half hybrids out now? highly doubt it. so it took toyota to create the environemtnal car segment so other automakers including honda can follow and bring increased acceptance to a "greener" car.
And that's not to say this comment is highly subjective. We could go on for hours and be neither right nor wrong about it.
Originally Posted by gilboman
honda makes small fuel efficient engines because that is their strength, not some BS b/c they are green. if they truly were enviornmentaly concious, they would've done something a long time ago about their polluting outboard and lawnmower motors. Sure their offerings in those markets are not particularly bad in terms of enviornmental performance, but given your unfounded belief in their environmental awareness you would've thought they could've "innovated" some improvements into the dirty emissions of their non car motor products..
I don't recall Honda ever saying, "all of our engines will be 0-emissions". I remember more hearing something to the effect that they were committed to producing class leading low-emissions engines. But I agree that small engines are very polluting nonetheless. Maybe someday, the technology will be in place to get those small engines to perform well environmentally, but in the meantime, you can't blame them for not chasing 10 rabbits at the same time. It seems like their economic decisions are well balanced with their environmental decisions.
Originally Posted by gilboman
from an enviornmetnal iniatiative they have lagged behind toyota and GM.
12-13-2004, 11:12 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so you rather a car company bring out an inferior technology and sell it just so it can say it gets marketed first? i thought you initially said that wasnt the honda way? they bring out half hybrids, and introduce the insight that didnt sell at all and reconfirmed the perception green cars were impractical and not for the mass market. but it took toyota to bring a widely accepted hybrid to market. so honda was helping solidfy the prejudice against the viability of hybrids by bring out the joke that was the insight.
sometimes i dont know what you mean, toyota brings out hybrids that are technologically superior and does much better in the market place b/c people actually want them, honda brings out half hybrids but its better b/c they market it first? yet you were praising honda for not always being the first but come out a bit later but superior products.
and you said honda didnt produce trucks/big engines not because they couldnt but because they are green, now you are saying how they will build trucks and will own the market
and if you want to talk about CAFE..toyota has honda beat even with their trucks in the lineup.
and GM is buying into toyota hybrid technology, GM's fuelcell program is one of the if not the most advanced out there rightnow, they view hybrid as an interm solution which is somewhat true until hydrogen technology is ready.
and yes Toyota's hybrid technology is a few generations ahead of honda's.
sometimes i dont know what you mean, toyota brings out hybrids that are technologically superior and does much better in the market place b/c people actually want them, honda brings out half hybrids but its better b/c they market it first? yet you were praising honda for not always being the first but come out a bit later but superior products.
and you said honda didnt produce trucks/big engines not because they couldnt but because they are green, now you are saying how they will build trucks and will own the market
and if you want to talk about CAFE..toyota has honda beat even with their trucks in the lineup.
and GM is buying into toyota hybrid technology, GM's fuelcell program is one of the if not the most advanced out there rightnow, they view hybrid as an interm solution which is somewhat true until hydrogen technology is ready.
and yes Toyota's hybrid technology is a few generations ahead of honda's.
12-13-2004, 11:20 AM
#19
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gilboman
and yes Toyota's hybrid technology is a few generations ahead of honda's.
Sup Gilbo.
Not sure thats accurate. Honda simply chose a different approach towards Hybrids than Toyota.
Honda's Hybrid system in all likelyhood will never follow Toyota's. And a recent test in I think Car and Driver showed the Civic Hybrid to return equal or slightly better MPG numbers than the current Prius and better than the old Prius.
12-13-2004, 12:34 PM
#20
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 5,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gilboman
.....and GM is buying into toyota hybrid technology, GM's fuelcell program is one of the if not the most advanced out there rightnow, they view hybrid as an interm solution which is somewhat true until hydrogen technology is ready....
I hate to say it, guys, but gilbo's initial argument is correct. Honda wins this because of the type of cars it CHOOSES to make. The stuff he brought up to support his claim, however, is weak as usual...
Oh yeah... fuel cells are for golf carts. Thanks for playing!
12-13-2004, 12:37 PM
#21
Master in Science
Join Date: Aug 2003
Age: 44
Posts: 3,845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sauceman
You're back, you?
Well as usual, weak comments.
Well as usual, weak comments.
12-13-2004, 05:51 PM
#22
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by gilboman
so you rather a car company bring out an inferior technology and sell it just so it can say it gets marketed first? i thought you initially said that wasnt the honda way? they bring out half hybrids, and introduce the insight that didnt sell at all and reconfirmed the perception green cars were impractical and not for the mass market. but it took toyota to bring a widely accepted hybrid to market. so honda was helping solidfy the prejudice against the viability of hybrids by bring out the joke that was the insight.
sometimes i dont know what you mean, toyota brings out hybrids that are technologically superior and does much better in the market place b/c people actually want them, honda brings out half hybrids but its better b/c they market it first? yet you were praising honda for not always being the first but come out a bit later but superior products.
and you said honda didnt produce trucks/big engines not because they couldnt but because they are green, now you are saying how they will build trucks and will own the market
and if you want to talk about CAFE..toyota has honda beat even with their trucks in the lineup.
and GM is buying into toyota hybrid technology, GM's fuelcell program is one of the if not the most advanced out there rightnow, they view hybrid as an interm solution which is somewhat true until hydrogen technology is ready.
and yes Toyota's hybrid technology is a few generations ahead of honda's.
sometimes i dont know what you mean, toyota brings out hybrids that are technologically superior and does much better in the market place b/c people actually want them, honda brings out half hybrids but its better b/c they market it first? yet you were praising honda for not always being the first but come out a bit later but superior products.
and you said honda didnt produce trucks/big engines not because they couldnt but because they are green, now you are saying how they will build trucks and will own the market
and if you want to talk about CAFE..toyota has honda beat even with their trucks in the lineup.
and GM is buying into toyota hybrid technology, GM's fuelcell program is one of the if not the most advanced out there rightnow, they view hybrid as an interm solution which is somewhat true until hydrogen technology is ready.
and yes Toyota's hybrid technology is a few generations ahead of honda's.
Besides, your post is just so confusing, It's a pain to read.
I said this morning I didn't know enogh about hybrid technology that I wouldn't argue whether the Toyota hybrid technology was better or not, but thinking about it today on the highway, I have to say now that, like domn said, different doesn't mean inferior.
And Toyota did have success with the Prius while Honda didn't with the Insight for one good reason: Honda's Prius is a semi-prototype. It was meant to demonstrate what the Hybrid could do, and like many first-generations, it wasn't particularly brilliant. Besides, Honda never sold the Insight as a family sedan, so obviously, their market was much more restricted than the Prius. With tha addition of the Civic, and especially the Accord, I don't think Honda is making the statement that IMA technology isn't realistic or feasible or worthwhile.
Now, I wouldn't call the Honda's half-hybrids. They are just different, just like the I-Vtec is slightly different than the VVTL-i, but is still a variable valve timing system.
Besides, If Honda chose to go the way they did, doesn't mean they went cheap. But even if they did, they have at least introduced something they will better on later, but in the meantime, they have some meat to offer, while Toyota doesn't. Like I said: What good is the Hybrid technology if you don't offer it in your cars?
And the same goes for GM: What the hell is fuel cell technology any good if you don't have it available on your cars? Until they start offering it, they can't be tagged a "green" automobile manufacturer.
Gilboman, I just love as hell to argue with you, but I'm not going to do it if you don't show some intellectual honesty. It's going to get us nowhere. Please start posting coherently.
12-13-2004, 06:23 PM
#23
I feel the need...
Ford just announced they're killing the Excursion today.
Arguing the finer points aside, the original post by domn is to simply state that Honda is a car company that all of us here on this board respect because of their dedication to building clean burning engines.
Another reason I love Honda is their goal of getting the most hp out of small engines. Anybody can create massive HP figures with displacement or forced induction.
'01 S2000 gets 240hp out of 2.0 liters of naturally aspirated displacement.
The best Ford can do with their 2.0 ltr Zetec based SVT engine in the Focus is 170hp.
GM's Ecotec engine gets 205 hp, but needs supercharging to get there.
Arguing the finer points aside, the original post by domn is to simply state that Honda is a car company that all of us here on this board respect because of their dedication to building clean burning engines.
Another reason I love Honda is their goal of getting the most hp out of small engines. Anybody can create massive HP figures with displacement or forced induction.
'01 S2000 gets 240hp out of 2.0 liters of naturally aspirated displacement.
The best Ford can do with their 2.0 ltr Zetec based SVT engine in the Focus is 170hp.
GM's Ecotec engine gets 205 hp, but needs supercharging to get there.
12-13-2004, 06:55 PM
#24
I feel the need...
DaimlerChrysler, GM to team up on hybrid engines
BERLIN (AP) — General Motors (GM) and DaimlerChrysler (DCX) are teaming to develop fuel-saving hybrid technology for a range of vehicles that will help them compete with hybrid-vehicle leaders Toyota Motor and Honda Motor.
GM, the world's largest automaker, and its German-American rival have signed a memorandum of understanding and intend to enter into a definitive agreement early next year, the two companies said Monday. No financial details were disclosed.
GM and DaimlerChrysler executives were scheduled to discuss the arrangement in a teleconference Monday morning.
"Our planned cooperation will draw on the technical expertise of two of the largest auto companies in the world," DaimlerChrysler board member Thomas Weber said in a news release. "The result is expected to be a series of strong hybrid propulsion systems that will serve as a solution for our alternative powertrain needs."
Hybrids draw power from two energy sources, typically a gasoline or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. Demand has grown worldwide because of concerns about global warming and declining natural fuel supplies.
GM and Chrysler both sell a small number of "mild" hybrid pickups, but the systems are less advanced than those used on cars sold by Toyota and Honda.
Toyota, Japan's No. 1 automaker, said in October that it would double the allocation of Prius hybrid cars for the U.S. market in 2005, part of a companywide goal to sell 300,000 gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles worldwide by the end of next year. The announcement coincided with the sale of the 100,000th Prius in the United States, where they went on sale in the summer of 2000.
Honda last week began selling its third hybrid car in the United States, a high-performance version of its popular Accord sedan.
In early August, Ford began producing a hybrid version of its Escape SUV, the world's first gas-electric hybrid SUV.
GM and DaimlerChrysler have been working independently on their own hybrid propulsion systems for their range of passenger vehicles. The jointly built "two-mode" hybrid system will be used in GM, Chrysler and Mercedes vehicles. Variants planned include rear- and front-wheel-drive versions for cars, trucks and other vehicles.
In their statement, GM and DaimlerChrysler said today's typical single-mode hybrid systems rely on much-larger electric motors than are needed in their patent-protected two-mode system.
Tom Stephens, GM's group vice president for powertrains, called the two-mode design "the optimal merging of full hybrid and state-of-the-art automatic transmission technologies."
"This system will reduce fuel consumption at highway speeds much more effectively than available single-mode systems and achieve at least a 25% improvement in composite fuel economy in full-size truck applications," Stephens said.
The two-mode system will be mated to different engines, and the respective vehicle programs will have unique performance dynamics and calibration.
The companies said the project will be open to other partners and may result in GM and DaimlerChrysler licensing hybrid technology to rivals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
BERLIN (AP) — General Motors (GM) and DaimlerChrysler (DCX) are teaming to develop fuel-saving hybrid technology for a range of vehicles that will help them compete with hybrid-vehicle leaders Toyota Motor and Honda Motor.
GM, the world's largest automaker, and its German-American rival have signed a memorandum of understanding and intend to enter into a definitive agreement early next year, the two companies said Monday. No financial details were disclosed.
GM and DaimlerChrysler executives were scheduled to discuss the arrangement in a teleconference Monday morning.
"Our planned cooperation will draw on the technical expertise of two of the largest auto companies in the world," DaimlerChrysler board member Thomas Weber said in a news release. "The result is expected to be a series of strong hybrid propulsion systems that will serve as a solution for our alternative powertrain needs."
Hybrids draw power from two energy sources, typically a gasoline or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. Demand has grown worldwide because of concerns about global warming and declining natural fuel supplies.
GM and Chrysler both sell a small number of "mild" hybrid pickups, but the systems are less advanced than those used on cars sold by Toyota and Honda.
Toyota, Japan's No. 1 automaker, said in October that it would double the allocation of Prius hybrid cars for the U.S. market in 2005, part of a companywide goal to sell 300,000 gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles worldwide by the end of next year. The announcement coincided with the sale of the 100,000th Prius in the United States, where they went on sale in the summer of 2000.
Honda last week began selling its third hybrid car in the United States, a high-performance version of its popular Accord sedan.
In early August, Ford began producing a hybrid version of its Escape SUV, the world's first gas-electric hybrid SUV.
GM and DaimlerChrysler have been working independently on their own hybrid propulsion systems for their range of passenger vehicles. The jointly built "two-mode" hybrid system will be used in GM, Chrysler and Mercedes vehicles. Variants planned include rear- and front-wheel-drive versions for cars, trucks and other vehicles.
In their statement, GM and DaimlerChrysler said today's typical single-mode hybrid systems rely on much-larger electric motors than are needed in their patent-protected two-mode system.
Tom Stephens, GM's group vice president for powertrains, called the two-mode design "the optimal merging of full hybrid and state-of-the-art automatic transmission technologies."
"This system will reduce fuel consumption at highway speeds much more effectively than available single-mode systems and achieve at least a 25% improvement in composite fuel economy in full-size truck applications," Stephens said.
The two-mode system will be mated to different engines, and the respective vehicle programs will have unique performance dynamics and calibration.
The companies said the project will be open to other partners and may result in GM and DaimlerChrysler licensing hybrid technology to rivals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
