TSX69

Honda Says Its Cars are a "Bit Boring"

3 concept cars reveal a 'dramatic change' to the Japanese brand's design direction.

Honda's trio of concept cars unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show mark the end to a "boring" phase in the company's history, according to 1 of its chief design executives.

Speaking before the show, creative director of Honda's styling design development division Yoshinori Asahi said that after 3 years of concentrating on "efficient" designs such as the Insight, it was time to let go and provide a bit more visual excitement.

"Honda will make a dramatic change," he told Drive through an interpreter after unveiling the 3 Tokyo concepts.

"But of course, in terms of the mass production vehicle it will take 2 or 3 years. Because to begin with we believe that we are an exciting company so we want to actually demonstrate that."

"Frankly speaking we think that in the past few years the cars have been a bit boring," Asahi said. "Please wait for 2 or 3 years and then we will be more exciting."

If Honda's plans include a production version of the EV-Ster - the compact, electric open-topped sports coupe previously known as the "Small Sports EV Concept" - or the large, sleek 4-door AC-X then Mr Asahi's comments could be right on the money.

Both concepts feature the latest version of Honda's corporate grille with slimline headlamps incorporated into a long insert.

The AC-X concept is based on Accord running gear and features plug-in hybrid drivetrain while the body has moveable diffusers front and rear to aid aerodynamic efficiency.

Inside, it does away with a steering wheel in favour of a twin-lever steering (TLS) twin joystick set-up that folds away into the instrument panel when the car is in auto-pilot mode, allowing more space to enjoy the car's entertainment systems.

In fact, along with the tiny electric-powered Micro Commuter Concept, none of Honda's three 4-wheeler concepts featured a conventional steering wheel. It's something that Honda is looking at for its future cars, and it has carried out tests of TLS prototypes at the Suzuka racing circuit.

"It's not that we are going to completely eliminate the steering wheel, but we are aggressively trying to come up with a new proposal," Mr Asahi said.

While we're unlikely to see any joystick controlled Hondas in the near future, a new Accord due out next year will incorporate some styling elements of the AC-X concept. Further down the track, Honda has already announced it is working on a new NSX as a belated replacement for the 1990s V6-powered supercar.

"We want to go from efficient to exciting," Mr Asahi said. "We'll give you the specific details when those models are released."

TSX69

1st Drive: Honda Plug-In Hybrid Mule

Honda’s reputation as an innovator and technology leader wasn’t earned with the first hybrid brought to the U.S. market or its stubborn commitment to a hydrogen-powered prototype. Honda built its brand on the fundamentals of its most accessible and popular vehicles. Americans admired the simplest solutions to the most complex problems; they respected diligent engineering that set a standard of continuous improvement; and they believed in the company that was consistently one step ahead of the competition.

The company that once sold an affordable compact so clean it met emissions standards without a catalytic converter is hell bent on owning the hybrid market -- small as it may be, Prius be damned, and cost no object. So next year, Honda will add to its crowded stable of hybrids -- CR-Z, Civic, and Insight -- with a mid-size plug-in hybrid.

Not your typical Honda hybrid
Honda’s plug-in hybrid powertrain is far more sophisticated than the simple Integrated Motor Assist system found in Honda’s existing hybrids. It is also significantly different than the configurations used by the Toyota Prius and the Chevrolet Volt. No matter whether the Honda plug-in is relying on energy from its 6-kWh lithium-ion battery or its fuel tank, the wheels are primarily powered by a 161-hp electric motor. A second electric motor functions as a generator to convert power from a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder into electricity for range far beyond the battery’s 10 to 15 miles. If the driver calls for quick acceleration or exceeds 62 mph, the gas engine will also kick on before the battery’s charge is exhausted. Recharging takes about one and a half hours with a 240-volt connection.

The Honda’s unusual trick (all good hybrids have at least one) is that the gas engine can be mated to the front wheels through a fixed gear ratio. While single-speed transmissions are common in electric vehicles, gas engines require multi-speed gearboxes to match the narrow rpm band where the engine is most efficient with the wide range of road speeds. Both the Prius and the Volt use continuously variable transmissions to blend electric and gas power on its way to the wheels. Honda’s single gear ratio has been optimized for low-load highway cruising, such that the gas engine never engages the wheels below 40 mph. An electronically controlled clutch engages the engine when the computer decides to send power directly from the gas engine to the wheels.

A test drive shorter than its electric range
Over an extremely short, city-like loop, we sampled the hybrid powertrain packaged in the chassis of the current Honda Accord. The electric motor is plenty powerful to move at a normal pace without calling on the gas engine. Stomp on the throttle, though, and there’s a slight lag in power delivery and a CVT-like audible awakening as the engine spins up to high rpm and parks itself there. The Honda mule drove with less moaning than a Prius but less engine isolation than the Volt. Maximum acceleration is adequate but not quick.

We were never able to discern if the engine was driving the front wheels, although that doesn’t necessarily mean the system is seamless. It’s possible that the computer simply never saw fit to engage the clutch during our limited test drive. Brakes are easily modulated by hybrid standards.

Honda has committed to production for 2012, but it hasn’t let on if the powertrain will appear in the next Accord or an exclusive hybrid model. If Honda delivers on its claimed electric range of 10 to 15 miles, the mid-size plug-in hybrid will be aimed squarely at Toyota’s forthcoming Prius plug-in, a car that will certainly benefit from instant recognition as a hybrid.

The mysteries that remain
It’s clear that Honda is hoping the more sophisticated powertrain will be a feather in its cap and a step toward reclaiming its reputation as a technology leader. For that to happen, though, buyers will have to respond to this hybrid more strongly than they have to any of Honda’s previous gas/electric cars. While the plug-in hybrid features some genuine innovations, its chance of success depends just as much on unknowns like styling, pricing, and fuel economy.

biker

Right, since previous Honda executives never said that before.

biker

.....which Honda has not done very well lately.

TSX69

Honda Hopes New Diesel Will Give VW Sleepless Nights

Honda thinks it finally has a diesel that will make its European rivals a little nervous. Using comparable Volkswagen Group powertrains as a benchmark, Honda says it has created a new 120-hp 1.6-liter diesel that offers 300 newton meters of torque while emitting less than 100 grams per kilometer of CO2.

At 180kg, Honda says the new diesel is the lightest in its class, which contributes to its low CO2 numbers. The engine's final CO2 scores will be released closer to launch as it still needs to undergo testing in Europe.

When asked whether he hopes the new powerplant will put pressure on VW, Honda engineer Junji Yamano said through an interpreter: "It is good if they have some sleepless nights because we have had sleepless nights" trying to develop a diesel that can compete against VW's.

The engine, which will be made at Honda's factory in Swindon, England, will debut at the Paris auto show in autumn 2012 and appear first in the new ninth-generation Civic in early 2013. The new Civic will debut in Europe in February 2012 with a choice of 1.4- and 1.8-liter gasoline engines and a 2.2-liter diesel unit.

The current Civic offers Europeans only the 2.2-liter unit, which is too large – and heavy – in a segment where most buyers want 1.5- or 1.6-liter turbodiesels.

Alessandro Skerl, head of Honda's Italian unit, said the new 1.6-liter diesel engine will be crucial in a market such as Italy where the majority of compact car buyers favor diesels. Cars with small diesel engines of 1.6-liter displacement or less account more than 50% of compact segment sales. "We expect the 1.6-liter diesel to cover 65% of Civic sales," he said.

Fuel economy goal: No. 1

The 1.6-liter engine is 50kg lighter than the 2.2-liter diesel because it has a smaller displacement as well as aluminum cylinders rather than steel and pistons made of high-strength steel so that their diameter could be reduced, saving weight without sacrificing on performance or endurance.

The new diesel is the 1st powerplant for Europe from what Honda calls its Earth Dreams Technology lineup.

Sources say this engine likely will be offered in the United States in addition to its European application, however, Honda CEO Takanobu Ito said last week that that the automaker does not have any plans to launch diesels in North America.

Honda officials also said that turbocharged gasoline direct-injection engines will be developed in the future. A source said they should be launched within the next two to three years.

Ito said Honda's aim for launching its new powertrain lineup is to have "the No. 1 fuel economy in each [vehicle] category within the next 3 years."

New transmissions

In addition to the engines, Honda has designed 3 new continuously variable transmissions, one for mid-sized cars such the Accord, and 2 for smaller vehicles such as the Civic, Jazz and Japan-market minicars.

While many competitors in Europe are moving toward dual-clutch transmissions, Honda is betting big on CVT because it feels its solutions address key weaknesses in the technology such as lag.Current CVTs have a "rubber band" feeling similar to a slipping clutch under acceleration, but the Honda system has less of a feeling of slippage, said Hideki Wakamatsu, general manager of Honda R&D.

That's because the Honda belt, which is sourced from German's Robert Bosch, is thinner and has a proprietary material that resides between the element and the ring of the CVT, Honda said. Also, the engine control software has been remapped so there is less hunting between the engine and CVT for optimal engine revs and transmission ratios during sudden acceleration, Wakamatsu said. He said that Honda's CVT is designed to use the engine at its most efficient, resulting in fuel economy improvement of 5% to 10%.

Honda will continue to offer manual transmissions for markets such as Europe. A source added that within the next two years Honda also plans to launch a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission and an automatic with either 8 or 9 speeds. Traditional stepped-gear automatics will be offered for vehicles such as sport sedans and sports cars where more immediate performance impact is needed, Wakamatsu said.

dom

They didn't mention either of these things at last weeks announcements?

biker

The Honda diesel will no doubt be great, even better than VW's unit, but sales wise it still won't make a diff in places like Germany where VW outsells Honda by a huge margin.

The sales picture would be quite different in the US.

Moog-Type-S

...but with this diesel come state side?

Yumcha

North America, please?

Edward'TLS

Honda Europe are getting all the good stuffs.

How about Honda US ?

TSX69

Honda Plans to Make Lighter Vehicles

Honda Motor Co. plans to adopt new design and assembly methods to make its vehicles lighter, the Nikkei business daily reported.

Some of Honda's new manufacturing methods involve welding outer panels to the frame, rather than assembling the ceiling, side and other panels, to reduce the use of bolts and reinforcing materials, the Japanese newspaper said.

Honda plans to spend tens of billions of yen to revamp production lines in Japan and overseas, using the new methods on small vehicles initially, then on all models within several years, the Nikkei said.

The automaker has begun steps to scale back on materials, parts and processing steps for producing its minivehicle, the N Box, which was launched last Friday, the daily said.

Honda modified 1 of the 2 production lines that assemble the N Box at its Suzuka plant in Mie Prefecture, the Nikkei said. The move will help make the N Box 10% lighter and lower manufacturing costs, the paper added.

By making lighter and cheaper automobiles, the carmaker aims to fast track its advance into emerging markets, which is 1 of its top priorities, the newspaper said.

Professor

^I'm glad Honda is getting back to their roots.

The 2013 Honda Accord

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Interesting.....recent Honda models are getting lighter anyways...glad to see more steps are being taken to further reduce the weight....10% reduction is pretty nice and a good start.

pttl

Higher repair costs? And thereby insurance rates?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I guess we will see in the future?

TSX69

Honda Plans to Roar Back in 2012

"We're baaack!" That's the message Honda executives want to convey to American consumers. Honda will be full-speed ahead in 2012 with new models, including revisions of its top 3 best sellers — the Honda Accord, Honda CR-V and Honda Civic.

"We want consumers to know we are back, and we are back in a big way," said John Mendel, Honda North America's executive vice president of auto sales, which include the Honda and Acura brands, in an interview with media and analysts in Detroit last month.

In 2011, Honda was battered more than any other automaker by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami in Japan that triggered worldwide production disruptions that led to vehicle shortages at U.S. dealerships. Mendel said dealers were operating with about 40% of their usual inventory during much of the year. But in 2012, Honda will be "full speed ahead." Production at Honda plants returned to 100% in November. The inventory pipeline is expected to be replenished to more "normal" levels by the end March. Honda's portfolio will include the recently revamped CR-V and Civic with a new Accord coming on in the fall. The trio of vehicles account for 2-3rds of Honda's total U.S. sales.

Honda Sales
Honda will give the 1st sneak peek of the 2013 Honda Accord at next week's 2012 Detroit Auto Show as a coupe concept. Consumers can watch the live unveiling of the Accord coupe concept on Honda's Web site.

If Honda remains true to form, consumers can expect this concept to be pretty close to the real thing that goes into production next fall in Marysville, Ohio. Honda executives are giving little away about the car until the auto show except to say the concept will reveal the styling direction of the next-generation Accord coupe, a styling direction that will convey a "dynamic and aggressive profile," Honda said. Honda executives did confirm that the 9th-generation Accord will be the 1st U.S.-sold Honda to be equipped with a new engine — 1 using direct injection for improved fuel economy. The new engine is part of a family of engines that will be rolled out to future Honda models as they are revised, said American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura. "These new engines are very competitive in terms of fuel efficiency and performance. They will be a reminder of Honda's strong DNA as an engine maker," he added. A plug-in version of the Accord will be offered as well.

In December, Honda introduced the revamped CR-V. The company expects to have dealership lots filled with them in mid-January. The reviews have been fairly positive for the CR-V. It is 1 of 3 finalists for the 2012 North American Truck of the Year, to be announced next week at the Detroit auto show.

In October, Honda launched the revised Civic, but it got off to a rocky start. Reviews were tepid. Automotive critics complained the new Civic was cheapened, especially in the interior, and was not up to par with its competitors. Consumer reports knocked it off its recommended list. The car did not make the list of candidates for the 2012 North American Car of the Year award. And sales were hampered by the lack of availability caused by issues related to the March earthquake. Sales are just now returning to more normal levels for the high-volume small car. It came within 80 sales of being No. 1 in its segment in October, it was #1 in November and Honda expects it to be in 1st place in December.

"The Civic (and subsequent reviews) reinforced for us the expectation customers have for Honda: they don't expect us to be good, they expect us to be exceptional," said Mendel. "That's not a bad thing but it can be a difficult thing. You hit a triple instead of a homerun and people say they are disappointed."

American Honda President Iwamura said cost-cutting was not a factor. Rather, Honda's internal studies showed the new Civic would be "adequate" compared with the competition. However, the competition upped the ante along the way. "The gap we had in the past with competitors has been narrowed." As a result, Honda is accelerating a revamp of the recently revised Civic, though no time for its launch was revealed.

Legend2TL

TSX69, as always thanks for posting news articles

dom

Good news. IMO, they should have delayed the CR-V's launch until it too was ready for the DI engine. Or will it only be the V6 that gets DI in the Accord?

Colin

Nah, the Accord is (probably) a more important car from a brand image point of view. Besides, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't delay. People grumble either way.

KillerG

The accord peek is going to be a big deal for honda, the last accord coupe was pretty true to its concept, so i hope they have something good up their sleeves

Moog-Type-S

Crazy how Honda had DI in 2003 in the Stream...but waits for over a decade to get it to N.A.

Better late than never

dom

So any idea if both the 4 and 6 are getting DI in the Accord?

Moog-Type-S

^^ both the 4cyl and 6cyl are due for "a change" so why not both?

Colin

No clue, maybe the new V6 debuts in the NSX or RL first, they're probably launching around the same time. Acura will have 6 launches in the next 24 months so some things are bound to overlap.

TSX69

Insight:
After Civic Bruising, Honda Fights for its Soul

The future of Honda Motor Co may rest with a pair of contrarian Japanese car engineers working from a drab Tokyo suburb with a hotline to the boardroom. Their mission: just say no.

Honda's creative directors Toshinobu Minami and Yoshinori Asahi are out to kill any mediocre car designs rumbling down the pipeline. In short, they have been told to stop anything like the 2012 Civic, a cheapened redesign that prompted critics, consumers and rivals to wonder how Honda had so badly lost its way.

Inside Honda, in both Japan and the United States, that same question has also been asked with urgency. Honda, many say, slipped into designing cars by committee in recent years and drifted away from the iconoclastic ambitions of its founder. Honda had become boring.

"Somewhere along the way, we lost the ability to express ourselves more freely," Asahi told Reuters. "We have a lot of designers here, and when we ask ourselves, 'Which Honda car would we want to buy?' Sometimes, some of us draw a blank."

That's a startling admission at a company long praised for the quality and durability of its vehicles -- a company that caught U.S. automakers flat-footed in the 1970s with inexpensive, fuel-efficient cars like the original Civic.

Touted 4 decades ago for its CVCC engine that boasted cleaner tailpipe emissions -- as well as inspiring the Civic name -- Honda has trailed with advances such as 6-speed transmissions and direct fuel-injection systems.

In recent years, Honda's "car guys," the engineers that built the automotive upstart into a powerhouse, were overshadowed by the "bean counters," financial executives more willing to cut corners on vehicle content to shore up margins, insiders say.

That approach looks good on a spreadsheet, but it also carries the risk of a backlash. Consumers can turn on a debased version of a popular car and the resulting publicity can burn a brand -- a lesson GM, Ford and Chrysler all learned the hard way in the slide to crisis in 2008.

Ironically, Detroit's willingness to settle for also-ran status in small-car quality created the opening for Honda in the 1970s and 1980s. Now, analysts and industry executives wonder whether Honda can rekindle the underdog ambition of founder Soichiro Honda.

================================================== ==

U.S. Honda Civic incentives have increased since the 2012 version was introduced last April: link.reuters.com/vej66s

Civic sales pick up as supply squeeze eases link.reuters.com/guk66s

================================================== ==

Changes at Honda can't come soon enough after a terrible year. Slow to recover from the earthquake and tsunami in Japan a year ago, Honda's U.S. sales tumbled 7% in 2011. By contrast, Nissan bounced back with a 14% sales gain to almost match Honda's market share.

Nissan, in particular, has made it a mission to overtake Honda in the United States and has closed the gap since 2010.

Meanwhile, Hyundai Motor Co and its affiliate Kia Motors Corp have overtaken Japanese automakers as the benchmark for value-for-money. The Koreans have also taken advantage of a favorable exchange rate to install pricier fuel-saving technologies and other extras while Japanese brands struggle to offset the debilitating impact of a strong yen.

"Honda somehow managed to get very, very far away from their engineering discipline," AutoTrends Consulting President Joseph Phillippi said, adding it could take 3 years for Honda to show it has turned the corner in car development.

A financial rebound could come quicker, though. Honda has not given detailed forecasts for the fiscal year starting April, but executives see U.S. sales up by as much as 25% in 2012.

Honda's earnings remain supported by a strong finance arm and its leading motorcycle business. In addition, the automaker is taking steps to shift more production to North America to shore up profitability.

In another move that shows the importance Honda attaches to getting it right in the United States, the board last month promoted North America chief Tetsuo Iwamura to become the No. 2 global executive, the 1st time that job has been based outside Japan.

But behind the scenes, the battle for Honda's automotive soul is being played out in places like Asahi and Minami's sprawling 3rd-floor studio in the Tokyo suburb of Wako. If the upscale Aoyama neighborhood that houses Honda's headquarters can be likened to New York's 5th Avenue, then Wako would be a dreary town in New Jersey.

Since September, when they were promoted to fix Honda's car designs, Asahi, 47, and Minami, 44, have been working from Wako with a mission to shake things up. Both worked in the early 1990s on the 4th-generation Accord, a bigger Honda that won praise for its simplicity and a near-indestructible 4-cylinder engine.

"He hates doing what he's told to do," Asahi says of his partner with approval. "Just like me."

Minami says it's a struggle to get Honda's designers to shed a conservatism born of the consensus-building approach typical of Japanese corporate culture. "I want designers to be heard at the company, but for that I need them to stop playing nice and compete more fiercely with each other," he said.

OUT OF FAVOR

"Playing nice" has already taken a toll on Honda.

Last summer, Consumer Reports magazine savaged the redesigned Civic for a low-quality interior and choppy ride. It dropped the car from its recommended list and ranked it next to last among 12 compact sedans tested. It was the 1st time the Civic had failed to make the list since the buyer's guide was launched in 1993. As a brand, Honda lost its coveted top spot in the magazine's annual report on quality this week.

"(It was as if they said) 'OK, we've got the marketplace. We're going to put in cheap interiors. We're not going to keep up with engine technology," said David Champion, senior director at Consumer Reports' auto test center.

Honda executives realize their mistakes.

"We should have been more aggressive," said Honda's top engineer, Yoshiharu Yamamoto. "The Civic is a cornerstone. And to have that car get the feedback that it did, we have to take that to heart."

John Mendel, Honda's U.S. sales chief, has argued fallout from Consumer Reports' poor review has been minimal, pointing to the Civic's segment-leading sales in recent months. For the first two months of 2012, Civic's U.S. sales were up 45%.

But industry research firm TrueCar.com says incentives on the Civic have more than quintupled since its debut last April to almost $1,900 per car in January, suggesting sales are being driven by attractive deals.

Mendel acknowledges Honda cut costs on the Civic interior because it believed back in 2008 that consumers would want a cheaper small car at a time when the economy was sliding into a deep recession. Instead, rivals including Hyundai, Ford and GM all found American consumers ready to spend more for small cars with richer interiors, quality sound systems and extras like navigation and heated seats.

"We missed a trend," Mendel said. "We zigged, the market zagged a little bit. We did some things that we thought were less important to the consumers."

Honda is rushing a redesigned Civic to market late this year, essentially a facelift to protect the image of a car that is key to both Honda's future and heritage.

The Civic is the model that famously put the then little-known Japanese automaker on the map in 1972. With a base price of around $12,000 in today's prices and a slogan that emphasized its no-nonsense engineering - "It will get you where you're going" - the Civic was a hit with Americans looking for a fuel-sipping small car in the wake of the 1st oil price spike.

The Civic now accounts for 1 of every 5 of the 3 million-plus cars Honda sells worldwide.

"They erred by taking the content out of the vehicle," said Mike Shaw, who owns Honda dealerships in Texas and Louisiana. "The bean counters probably did take over. They now have been overruled. That's an encouraging sign."

Industry observers and insiders said Civic's large U.S. following -- 9 million sold -- tempted Honda to stick with a design that wouldn't alienate repeat buyers.

MISSING 'MR THUNDER'

Honda has always thought of itself as an engineering firm -- its formal name in Japanese translates to Honda Technology Research Industry -- and its CEO has always been an engineer.

To avoid boring redesigns, Honda has had a long-standing policy of not letting engineers lead development of the same model twice. The idea was to encourage project leaders to "compete" with the previous version.

"The structure was there, but maybe not the culture behind it," Minami said. "None of us, including top management, has ever worked with Soichiro Honda. It's a totally new generation."

During his reign, engineers lived in fear of Soichiro Honda's surprise visits, which typically ended in deafening rants against mediocrity that earned him the moniker "Mr Thunder."

He retired in 1983 and died 9 years later. Many outside Honda say the company could really benefit from the aggressive drive he championed.

"Soichiro Honda was definitely the opposite of a bean counter; he was like the automotive Steve Jobs," said Bob Lutz, a former GM vice-chairman and one of the industry's best-known "car guys," referring to Apple's late visionary leader.

"He was always for technical progress and 'Don't tell me it's too expensive'," said Lutz, speculating Honda engineers no longer had the founder's voice ringing in their ears. "If they did, they would definitely have better technology and better styling. They've just lost it."

'BEHIND THE SCREEN'

Honda executives want to shatter that view. Yamamoto, the R&D chief, has a message for designers: worry less about what other departments may want. "I want them to work more freely."

In the past, Honda designers didn't need permission to veer off script. They often banded together to work in secret on an alternative version of a car when unhappy with the approved blueprint. Going "behind the screen," as it was called, often had the tacit backing of managers who felt it upheld the spirit of Soichiro Honda.

Asahi knows the power of going "behind the screen" 1st-hand. In the late 1990s, he began dreaming of an open-top sports car for Honda and spent his days drawing out models even though he was assigned to focus on car interiors. A rushed clay model that he developed with a group of like-minded designers outside work hours became the prototype for the S2000, a zippy roadster launched in 1999.

"I've personally seen a lot of these dreams become a reality at this company," Asahi said. "That's why under the new Honda, I want to draw out the guys who have that kind of passion and make cars that way."

Honda's creative duo now have a direct line to Chief Executive Takanobu Ito. Frustrated with the pace of decision-making at Honda, Ito has put himself in charge of Honda's car operations, splitting the core of the company into 3 units headed by engineers: the Acura premium brand, mid-sized vehicles and small cars.

Analysts say the 1st true test for the "new" Honda will come with the redesigned Accord due later this year. The Accord is Honda's best-selling vehicle and previous generations made the Japanese automaker's reputation for easy-to-drive, smartly engineered cars with good fuel mileage.

"It has to be a home run," said Lars Luedeman, head of Grant Thornton's auto advisory practice. "It's their bread and butter, a very high-margin vehicle."

Unlike the Civic, the next Accord will be equipped with Honda's newest engines and transmissions -- technologies the company hopes will make its cars the most fuel-efficient in their class by 2015. It will be the 1st time in a decade Honda has overhauled the Accord's engine.

Rivals have watched Honda's missteps with private glee.

Nissan even ran a commercial last August which shows a loaded Nissan car carrier being driven past a frustrated Honda dealer in a poke at its rival's low inventories due to last year's Japanese earthquake and Thai floods.

For Asahi and Minami, the pressure is on. They must ensure the next generation of Honda vehicles wow consumers. "What we need to do is to raise the quality of the output by such a high margin that it will shut everybody up," said Asahi.

To that end they have already sent numerous projects back to the drawing board, they said. "The tension when we did that -- it was like all the air was being sucked out of the room," Minami said. "But that is our job."

knavinusa

About time. Sometimes it feels like Honda is blind to the rest of the automotive industry.

Majofo

tl;dr cliffs?

pnoi521

My sentiments exactly...

pttl

It's good to see Honda honestly looking at what they've done lately.

AZuser

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Good first step.

Moog-Type-S

Honda figuring out what we have all known for years.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Damn, I came in here to post that.

Im glad they are attempting to go back to their engineering/design roots. Lets see if it actually works out that way though.

dom

But we're called trolls for saying the same thing.

That's all fine an dandy but I still don't see anything exciting coming for their small cars. Something that stirs the soul like Prelude, GS-R or old Si. Unless those engines simply weren't mentioned at the recent Earth Dreams launch. :duuno:

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

If you listen real close you can hear SSFTSX's head exploding.

AZuser

"Honda Fights for its Soul" or "Honda Fights Seoul?"

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yes.

Moog-Type-S

What are you talking about?!?!?

Are you telling me you are not excited about the GT86 or the BRZ?!?!?!?!?


Oh wait....Honda is not making those.....never mind.

TSX69

Rumored:
Honda/Acura Could Adopt ZF 9-Speed Automatic

Although most of Honda’s recent powertrain news has surrounded CVTs and dual-clutch transmissions, that shouldn’t be taken as a sign the automaker is abandoning conventional automatics altogether. In fact, the automaker will likely adopt a 9-speed automatic by 2014 at the earliest.

Automotive News 1st reported in late 2011 that Honda was planning on launching an 8- or 9-speed automatic in the near future, but a source close to the program now tells us the automaker will use the new 9-speed transverse automatic developed by German powertrain supplier ZF.

If that gearbox sounds vaguely familiar, it should: it’s set to make its initial debut in a string of Chrysler Group vehicles over the next 2 years. Fiat/Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne 1st hinted at using/developing the transmission in late 2010. Chrysler itself has been relatively mum on the subject, but UAW officials at the company’s plant in Toledo, Ohio, have suggested the replacement for the Jeep Liberty will be one of the 1st applications of the transmission.

The transmission, which ZF calls the 9HP, is designed for transverse installations, making it suitable for front- and all-wheel-drive platforms. Although Honda has typically developed its own transmissions, the 9HP will be a significant departure from Honda’s existing automatics in that it utilizes planetary gearsets in order to save space (ZF says the gearbox measures 20.5 inches wide, 16.6 in tall, and 14.5 inches deep).

ZF proclaims the gearbox is capable of handling up to 354 lb-ft of torque, and can support both start/stop and hybrid drive systems. The total gearing spread is quite wide (9.84:1), and taller gear ratios in the upper range of the gearbox allegedly play a big part in improving fuel economy by 10-16%. The supplier claims an engine mated to the 9HP needs to run at a mere 1900 rpm in order to propel a vehicle at 75 mph.

Honda officials refrained from confirming or denying the gearbox or its future applications, noting it’s company policy not to comment on future product plans. Given every Honda and Acura model currently on the market places its engine in a transverse fashion, the possibilities are theoretically endless, but we wouldn’t be surprised if this transmission is relegated to heavier and more upscale midsize models. Models like the Odyssey and Pilot, along with the Acura MDX and TL, are all potential recepients. Presently, these models utilize Honda’s 3.5-liter and 3.7-liter V-6 engines, and produce between 253 and 270 lb-ft of torque, respectively – well within the capabilities of the 9HP.

What remains to be seen is how the 9HP will be rolled out. We know ZF should start building 9HPs within its South Carolina plant in 2013 for Chrysler, but rumor has it Honda won’t start using the transmission until 2014. If so, the next-generation Acura TL, which is expected to launch in late 2013, could be 1 of the 1st vehicles to utilize the transmission.

Costco

lol, looks like Honda gave up on designing their own transaxles? The ZF unit will probably shift better and be more reliable than Honda's now infamous 5AT.

and pfft, 1900 rpm @ 75 mph in 9th gear. A LS1/T56 (V8/6-speed manual) runs at 2000 rpm @ 80 mph, and will easily pull to 95 while staying in 6th


In any case though, I'm glad. I'm not a fan of CVTs despite the advantages that they have.