Moog-Type-S

I can care less why they dropped the NSX....Honda has been blundering around for years now...so who knows.

The only thing I don't think is correct is the "they were too far along to kill the CRZ argument.....but not far enough along to kill the NSX....it holds no water since they were on the same timeline....and then add to that, the LFA was on the same timeline as the NSX...all of them 2007-2010.

Mfg's. stated 3 years from concept to production for all three cars.

However if someone says that the NSX was vaporware and Honda was lying for years about it....that might make sense....because Honda knew there was no way they could get a supercar out in the same timeline as Toyota did with the LFA.

I'd buy that.

Colin

Hold on, we were never talking about killing the CRZ, we were talking about changing the CRZ in response to the Insight sales numbers. (what I wrote)

Honda has no desire to kill the CRZ, but its too late in the game to change things for 2010-11.

Colin

Oh, and BTW, aren't these two statements sorta like the 'Pot calling the kettle black"?

Moog-Type-S

Allow me to mulitquote :wink:

Talking about the CRZ....

Still talking about killing the CRZ.......

Always talking about killing the CRZ.....you stated the whole too far into the timeline thing.....

I stated the Timeline for the CRZ, NSX, & LFA are the same 2007-2010 concept to production timeline.....

NSX was killed.....so why not the CRZ?
Each should have been moving along in the same timeframe for production....

If you use the NSX is a supercar and that's different argument....that's fine, but then look at the LFA....Toyota followed the same timeline.

Colin

You said...
I said...
Maybe a misunderstanding, but I was never talking about canceling the CRZ, I was responding to your comment that suggested that they didn't learn from the Insight when they followed up with a coupe.

Moog-Type-S

Misunderstanding indeed.

The whole "they can't cancel it" argument was making my head swim.


Now with that out of the way.....what vehicle is going to go on the ashheap first the CRZ or the Insight.

My money is on the CRZ.

(Cj)

My vote is both. Honda is pretty quick to kill under performers. It's a surprise the RL has been going as long as it has....

It would be funny if the Lexus LF-Ch outsells this, just like the HS outsold the Insight last month

dom

Not following.

If they did decide on a 2 seater for crash safety reason's then it was another terrible decision IMO. The market for 2 seaters is tiny as it is. The only 2 seaters I can think of are legitimate sports cars. In many cases a 3rd car or weekend toy. The CR-Z won't attract those looking for something like that.

Colin

You're not following? You don't think that "every nut, bolt, and word coming out of Honda" is an exaggeration? We're not talking just a few nuts and bolts we're talking about every nut and bolt coming out of Honda.

I don't know about you but I'd say that's an exaggeration and using an such an exaggeration to call someone out for exaggerating is just dripping with irony. Where I come from, this is like the pot (which is black) calling the kettle (which is also black) "black" Get it?

dom

Gotcha.

But don't you remember last week when you claimed that Honda nuts were better than Toyota's, and I said the nuts should have been outsourced to a 3rd party manufactuer like the Germans have done?

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

looks SICK!

Colin

Actually, Honda nuts are better than Toyota nuts because they require less torque to install. Toyota nuts are little heavier but they don't handle well and they always fall out of your hands when you try to put them on. German nuts require three engineers and one committee to decide on outsourcing, and then require a special tool to install them and cost three times as much to replace.

Colin

Yeah, all I can say is they didn't let me in the boardroom when they were deciding the future of the CRZ. I can say that today the market for two seaters is typically sports cars, but this car is going to be on the market for five years, maybe six years, who is to say that in the future we don't view commuter cars differently?

IMO, Honda is not even trying to say that in the future all sports cars will be hybrids. (like in the future all restaurants will be Taco Bell) I think all they're trying to say is that commuter cars don't have to be dull and boring. (they may not be fast either)

Colin

Well, until a price is released for the CRZ it's going to be really difficult to judge whether it's going to be a success or not. However, following recent Honda trends, it's entirely possible that the car will come in a little more expensive than many of us have anticipated. It just seems like every car they released in the last three years or so have come in about $2000 higher than we were guessing. (I'd say this started with the RDX)

knavinusa

LOL, no doubt about that.

dom

Yumcha

bigwerm187

is this CR-Z going to be available in the US.....????

Colin

^^ A CR-Z is going to be sold in the US. There is no confirmation that we're going to get this JDM version shown here. (thought it would seem likely)

fsttyms1

Meh. It looks good but its another car by honda that shouldnt have been made.

neuronbob

Source.....
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=871656









More pics available on the TOV.

Also, it is going to be introduced to the U.S. at the NAIAS in Detroit next week. I plan to be in Detroit for the first weekend of the public part of the show and will definitely be looking for this, will bring pix, and will try as best possible to get some info out of the Honda reps (e.g. HOW ABOUT A PERFORMANCE ENGINE FOR ENTHUSIASTS?)....

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmm, looks decent. If only the sport mode had a little more umph.

majin ssj eric

Just say NO to more hybrids!!!!!

fsttyms1

This car should have the RDX turbo motor in it.

neuronbob

Wow. Torque curve posted on the TOV last night.

122 hp and 128 lb-ft when you translate. The comparison shown is to the new Insight.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=872221

knavinusa

It definitely makes a lot more power than the insight, but the torque curve drops off pretty quickly at redline. At least the power curve looks nice.

CarbonGray Earl

Weight of the JDM version is pegged to be between 2491 and 2600+ lbs, depending on the options.

The 2491 is for the 6mt, but it remains to be seen what it will be in the US. Note that in Japan, the car will have rear seats; the US will be strictly a 2 seater. So I don't know if those weight figures include the rear seat or not.

Its relatively light, but we'll have to wait and see how the 'power' and power delivery will affect the car.

majin ssj eric

Sounding less and less appealing as per typical Honda fashion....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

122hp. 128lbft of torque, 2500lb, 6MT....not fast, but not too shabby.

agranado

sounds like this cars specs would've been killer diller... 20 years ago

alex2364

This is like redesign of the Insight from 2000-2006.

CG2PROJECT

I'm digging the front end of the car.. the rear? Not so much.

TSX69

The Car Connection

What do you get when you take some of the inspiration of Honda’s much-loved CRX two-seater from the 1980s and cross it with the also-much-loved Insight coupe from the past decade, then give it the latest version of Honda’s hybrid system? The 2011 Honda CR-Z. After plenty of anticipation, the production version of this sport hybrid is at last here, introduced at the Detroit auto show.

American Honda’s executive VP of sales John Mendel calls the CR-Z “the first hybrid designed to maximize style and fun, in addition to fuel efficiency and economy.”

The little two-seater has a profile that’s definitely taller than the CRX yet still quite low-slung. From the back, the hatch and integral window has a stronger resemblance to the two-seat Honda Insight, which was last produced until 2006. Inside, the CR-Z gets mult-layered instrument-panel displays—a contemporary design feature we’ve come to expect in Hondas—and the upper portion of the dash curves around to envelop the driver.

The CR-Z shares many of its underpinnings with the 2010 Honda Insight and is powered by a 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine i-VTEC engine, paired with Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) mild-hybrid system. The 10-kW electric motor assists during acceleration, then functions as a generator during braking and coasting, recharging the 100-volt nickel-metal hydride battery pack.

Altogether, the system produces 122 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque. A six-speed manual transmission is standard on the CR-Z, with a CVT optional; as you might expect, the CVT provides a choice of simulated gear ratios. The low mounting of the battery system and the front strut, rear torsion-beam suspension all aid sporty handling.

The CR-Z also employs Honda’s Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure and includes side-curtain airbags and active head restraints, along with anti-lock brakes and electronic stability control.

Fuel economy is a bit of a disappointment for such a small vehicle, at 31 mpg city, 37 highway with the manual transmission, but CVT models do much better with a figure of 36/38.

A three-mode drive system that gives a choice between Sport, Econ, and Normal driving modes will debut in the 2011 CR-Z.

Two trim levels of the 2011 Honda CR-Z will be offered, including base and EX models. Base CR-Z models will include electronic stability control, automatic climate control, keyless entry, cruise control, and a six-speaker sound system with USB interface. EX models add HID headlamps, fog lamps, Bluetooth, leather trim, and upgraded 360-watt audio. A navigation system with voice recognition is optional.

The new 2011 Honda CR-Z will go on sale this summer.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Stripping the car of those heavy batteries and charging system and dropping either a destroked K series (K18?) or even the same K20Z3 in the Si into it would've yielded the same, if not better mpg ratings. Plus it would have been much more fun to drive.

Its a shame because I really liked the styling, both inside and out. When they showed the pre-production version in Tokyo I thought it would be the successor to the CL. Not any more. The power numbers and most importantly the MPG numbers are underwhelming to say the least.

Costco

Unfortunately, hybrids are the "in" thing now for carmakers, so Honda decided to jump on the bandwagon for this new car. Sadly, it was at the expense of the enthusiast's interest.

(Cj)

+1 especially after the official press release...

Those gas mileage figures suck plain and simple, and the fact that this thing is gonna costs as much as an Si is laughable. I'd get a standard Civic over this everyday of the week. Actually better than that I'd get an actual Si or MazdaSpeed3 instead.

spurfan15

There are some features I really like about the car: it's nice and small, it can be had w/ a 6MT, HIDs are available, the gauges are pretty neat, etc. But I have to sadly agree with you guys that the hybrid aspect of the CR-Z really hurts it.

This is one of those situations where there is little to no benefit from this being a hybrid. It adds weight, the power is limited, the handling will be worse, and it will cost more.

I have to believe if they lightened this car by taking out all of the batteries and put in an efficient but much more powerful engine, the car would be a hell of a lot more fun and could probably achieve similar MPG numbers. It would probably cost less too.

I find the idea of a sports hybrid intriguing, but the fuel economy numbers don't make the hybrid part worth it. I'd rather see a small 2 seater sports car that can tear up the road.

ThermonMermon

thats b/c obamas financial advisors are morons

ThermonMermon

also, it doesnt take a genius to figure out WHY honda is releasing this car. taxes. honda already has covered this market with other cars. theres no demand for the CR-Z that cant be met by civic, fit, or insight. which is why the CRX throwback has been on the backburner for years. the release of this car will only eat sales from the rest of the line-up with no overall net gains for honda. the decision to green light the CR-Z is entirely a product of tax dollars, not sales.

so EVERYONES taxes contribute to a heavy rebate for automakers to oversaturate the market with an excessive line-up? so we all funding a program that only affects few hybrids owners, yet those individual hybrid owners also receive tax rebates...what a f*n disgrace.

Colin

I don't think any Hondas qualify for tax rebates. Anyone know for sure?