Honda: CR-Z News **Facelift Revealed (page 31)**
09-30-2009, 03:18 AM
#121
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09-30-2009, 07:02 AM
#122
Senior Moderator
I think it looks really good. Certainty better than all the 
Honda's been releasing lately. I just don't have much faith in this being much of a sports car.
It should perform equal to or better than the Si but I doubt it will.
Honda's been releasing lately. I just don't have much faith in this being much of a sports car. It should perform equal to or better than the Si but I doubt it will.
09-30-2009, 08:27 AM
#123
Senior Moderator
09-30-2009, 10:31 AM
#125
The sizzle in the Steak
...but Honda needs to step up the Si performance.hmmmm I seem to remember Honda made a turbo 4 that would be perfect for a car like this......I wonder where it went........oh yea...they stuck it in a very ugly SUV
09-30-2009, 12:33 PM
#126
I'm going to add to what I said (that the CR-Z looks good) with this disclaimer: at this point in design, the gen2 Insight looked good too.
I honestly can't say the same for the production Insight. The Prius looks a bit sharper. Same might happen for the CR-Z.
I honestly can't say the same for the production Insight. The Prius looks a bit sharper. Same might happen for the CR-Z.
09-30-2009, 01:22 PM
#128
The sizzle in the Steak
So that being said, the Prius will look sharper/better.
09-30-2009, 01:27 PM
#129
What Would Don Draper Do?
09-30-2009, 06:17 PM
#132
Senior Moderator
YES. I like it a lot!
Then again, I LOVED the 2G CRX that was out while I was in college. That was HOT back in the day.
Then again, I LOVED the 2G CRX that was out while I was in college. That was HOT back in the day.
09-30-2009, 08:50 PM
#133
looks great, best looking hatchback so far. kinda hard to tell if it has projector headlight or not. I like it inside out. Now if Honda prices it around 20-22k that would be great!
10-03-2009, 05:04 AM
#134
Burning Brakes
10-03-2009, 02:02 PM
#135
Other than getting in a cute swipe at Acura design, does your statement really make any logical sense? As I hear, the whole purpose of the controversial Acura styling was to distance the brand from Honda styling. Adding Acura cues wouldn't achieve this.
10-03-2009, 02:10 PM
#136
The manual transmission would probably hurt MPG, but should add to the fun. As long as it handles well, is priced in the low 20s, and delivers good fuel economy, it should do well. This means that Honda would have 3 coupes all below 30K. What about Acura? This doesn't leave a lot of room for a 4th coupe in the family.
10-05-2009, 10:24 AM
#137
Senior Moderator
But I thought Acura had distanced itself from Honda? So Acura can't release a coupe because Honda has 3 under 30K? This is the type of thinking that will IMO bury Acura at some point.
Last edited by dom; 10-05-2009 at 02:52 PM.
10-05-2009, 03:25 PM
#138
BTW, I generally appreciate a good intellectual discussion, but I will say that recently your posts have been less 'thoughtful' and more aimed at raising a reaction. Just IMO.
10-06-2009, 07:15 AM
#139
Senior Moderator
My God, what a knee jerk reaction! It doesn't mean that at all. It means that if Acura were to release a sub 30K coupe, it must offer something that is not already offered within the brand. OR they release a coupe above the ending price for an Accord coupe. Which one? I'm guessing the later but hoping for both.
Other than that I agree. But should they even waste their time? Any coupe based off the Accord platform even with SH-AWD will IMO fail. 
BTW, I generally appreciate a good intellectual discussion, but I will say that recently your posts have been less 'thoughtful' and more aimed at raising a reaction. Just IMO.
10-06-2009, 02:17 PM
#140
10-06-2009, 02:21 PM
#141
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In case anyone from Honda is browsing through here..
I'll buy a CRZ Si, no hybrid powertrain. Drop a K series in it and a 6MT.
I have my check in hand!
I'll buy a CRZ Si, no hybrid powertrain. Drop a K series in it and a 6MT.
I have my check in hand!
10-06-2009, 02:21 PM
#142
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In case anyone from Honda is browsing through here..
I'll buy a CRZ Si, no hybrid powertrain. Drop a K series in it and a 6MT.
I have my check in hand!
I'll buy a CRZ Si, no hybrid powertrain. Drop a K series in it and a 6MT.
I have my check in hand!
10-06-2009, 03:47 PM
#144
This raises an interesting point. Honda seems to have realized that some of the reason for the Prius' success, is that it makes a statement and screams "I'm Green" because the body shares no gas only analog. Would the addition of a "gas only" engine option, dilute the CR-Zs Hybrid message?
10-06-2009, 03:52 PM
#145
Senior Moderator
This raises an interesting point. Honda seems to have realized that some of the reason for the Prius' success, is that it makes a statement and screams "I'm Green" because the body shares no gas only analog. Would the addition of a "gas only" engine option, dilute the CR-Zs Hybrid message?
10-06-2009, 04:13 PM
#146
They tried that with the Insight and so far seem to have failed. Honda doesn't have the same cachet with their Hybrids that Toyota does with the Prius. So the question should be, can they afford to even take that chance with the CR-Z? And risk selling even less than they do Insights.
With Hybrids, it seems that hybrid versions of existing cars are a fringe market at best, so the near term future may be 'distinctly hybrid' models like the Prius and Insight. What if the 3G Prius had been on the market for (say) a year and had established the 'entry' price for this type of car at $25-27,000 (where many analysts expected it to retail). The Insight could have come in at $18-22,000 with the "Hybrid for Everybody" theme and captured some mindshare. As we see, it didn't unfold this way. Honda popped their wad early, Toyota changed their plans and dumped the Prius price in response. Essentially leaving the Insight nowhere to go. IMO, this is what is responsible for the difficulties the Insight faces.
Also, from what I've read, the CR-Z is based on the Insight, it is likely there is little development to make this new coupe, thus minimizing the risk.
10-06-2009, 08:23 PM
#147
Senior Moderator
Correct. Honda does not have as much cache with their hybrids. Should they 'stay the course' or throw in the towel? Afterall, NOBODY has as much cache with their hybrids as the Prius. Should everyone just give this market to Toyota?
With Hybrids, it seems that hybrid versions of existing cars are a fringe market at best, so the near term future may be 'distinctly hybrid' models like the Prius and Insight. What if the 3G Prius had been on the market for (say) a year and had established the 'entry' price for this type of car at $25-27,000 (where many analysts expected it to retail). The Insight could have come in at $18-22,000 with the "Hybrid for Everybody" theme and captured some mindshare. As we see, it didn't unfold this way. Honda popped their wad early, Toyota changed their plans and dumped the Prius price in response. Essentially leaving the Insight nowhere to go. IMO, this is what is responsible for the difficulties the Insight faces.
Also, from what I've read, the CR-Z is based on the Insight, it is likely there is little development to make this new coupe, thus minimizing the risk.
With Hybrids, it seems that hybrid versions of existing cars are a fringe market at best, so the near term future may be 'distinctly hybrid' models like the Prius and Insight. What if the 3G Prius had been on the market for (say) a year and had established the 'entry' price for this type of car at $25-27,000 (where many analysts expected it to retail). The Insight could have come in at $18-22,000 with the "Hybrid for Everybody" theme and captured some mindshare. As we see, it didn't unfold this way. Honda popped their wad early, Toyota changed their plans and dumped the Prius price in response. Essentially leaving the Insight nowhere to go. IMO, this is what is responsible for the difficulties the Insight faces.
Also, from what I've read, the CR-Z is based on the Insight, it is likely there is little development to make this new coupe, thus minimizing the risk.
All the CRX lovers left have grown up and unlikely to actually buy one regardless of what's said in forums.
10-06-2009, 09:03 PM
#148
Is their a market for a dedicated hybrid 'sport' coupe? I suspect this car won't be the equivalent of even a Si as far as its sporting intentions go so I really don't see this car doing well if thats the case. If its a hybrid that performs as good or better than an Si than it may have an audience.
All the CRX lovers left have grown up and unlikely to actually buy one regardless of what's said in forums.
All the CRX lovers left have grown up and unlikely to actually buy one regardless of what's said in forums.
I don't think this is for original CRX buyers. There must be a generation of new buyers looking for fun, entry level cars. Wouldn't this fit the spirit of "of going back to their (Honda's) roots?" Might these these new buyers have a different 'world view' of what is good or bad when it comes to cars, the environment and their lifestyle? Maybe this car isn't for you? Maybe it's for the guy you WERE back in your Integra days?
Last edited by Colin; 10-06-2009 at 09:05 PM.
10-06-2009, 09:06 PM
#150
Punk Rocker
I don't think this is for original CRX buyers. There must be a generation of new buyers looking for fun, entry level cars. Wouldn't this fit the spirit of "of going back to their (Honda's) roots?" Might these these new buyers have a different 'world view' of what is good or bad when it comes to cars, the environment and their lifestyle? Maybe this car isn't for you? Maybe it's for the guy you WERE back in your Integra days?
10-06-2009, 09:09 PM
#151
10-06-2009, 10:08 PM
#152
Punk Rocker
When the different folks start telling me I have to live by their different strokes then yes, there is a problem. Global warming is BS and so is this recent fervor to ditch gasoline engines to "save the planet"....
10-06-2009, 10:15 PM
#153
Oh I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a market for those who disagree with us (though we're obviously right). Ignoring this potential would be a mistake. IMO, their money as just as green (pun intended) so why not get some.
10-06-2009, 11:06 PM
#154
Punk Rocker
Thats fine but make one with a "real" engine for the non-idiots to buy...
10-07-2009, 11:37 AM
#155
Senior Moderator
Not at all. Don't take my questioning this car as me saying its a terrible idea. Its about time they come out with something like this. But it would IMO be very shortsighted and a mistake if they only release this car as a hybrid.
10-08-2009, 03:44 AM
#156
I disagree. If the whole idea is to have a line of hybrid vehicles, the Insight and CR-Z would be a good place to start. IMO, the Civic Si already covers the "all-gas" ground fine. By the time this hits the market in the US, won't there be a new generation of Civics ready? (I think the timing is about right)
10-08-2009, 07:25 AM
#157
Senior Moderator
I disagree. If the whole idea is to have a line of hybrid vehicles, the Insight and CR-Z would be a good place to start. IMO, the Civic Si already covers the "all-gas" ground fine. By the time this hits the market in the US, won't there be a new generation of Civics ready? (I think the timing is about right)
The pic accompanying the article looked to be a R&T drawing of the CR-Z that was very similar to the recent concept pics but it IMO looked even better. More streamlined.
10-08-2009, 02:08 PM
#158
Enough sociology. Back to cars.
If the CR-Z arrives in the US in 2011 and stays in production till 2017-18, my nephew might be a buyer for this. All car makers have the task of trying to define what they 'think' they'll need 5-10 years down the road. On the forums, we focus on what's here "now" for "me" and what is coming in the next model year. So you might be right, if WE were 13 again, we'd probably gravitate towards the 2015 Civic Si when we were ready to drive. But this does not mean that today's 13 year old who doesn't share our views will.
I'm certainly not presumptuous enough to assume this is absolutely correct, but I'm sure someone will accuse me of being wrong.
10-08-2009, 02:34 PM
#159
Senior Moderator
It's hard to say isn't it? But, one thing I see over and over here is the inability to see beyond 'me and now' and to try to imagine the long term direction. For example, I'm not a big recycler and I don't have kids. But my nephew who is 13 has been separating his trash for 5 years now. This is something I don't do, nor am I interested in starting, but to him, it's second nature. I have a different mindset focused on "me" than he does and in this respect, I'm just like 90% of the posters on this forum.
Enough sociology. Back to cars.
If the CR-Z arrives in the US in 2011 and stays in production till 2017-18, my nephew might be a buyer for this. All car makers have the task of trying to define what they 'think' they'll need 5-10 years down the road. On the forums, we focus on what's here "now" for "me" and what is coming in the next model year. So you might be right, if WE were 13 again, we'd probably gravitate towards the 2015 Civic Si when we were ready to drive. But this does not mean that today's 13 year old who doesn't share our views will.
I'm certainly not presumptuous enough to assume this is absolutely correct, but I'm sure someone will accuse me of being wrong.
Enough sociology. Back to cars.
If the CR-Z arrives in the US in 2011 and stays in production till 2017-18, my nephew might be a buyer for this. All car makers have the task of trying to define what they 'think' they'll need 5-10 years down the road. On the forums, we focus on what's here "now" for "me" and what is coming in the next model year. So you might be right, if WE were 13 again, we'd probably gravitate towards the 2015 Civic Si when we were ready to drive. But this does not mean that today's 13 year old who doesn't share our views will.
I'm certainly not presumptuous enough to assume this is absolutely correct, but I'm sure someone will accuse me of being wrong.
All any of us including Honda can do is take their best guess. If Honda and others manufactures had all the answers we would never see a flop. Yet, there are many.
I can't say you're wrong and vice versa. Time will tell. In my unscientific research I can tell you that the few 15-16 year kids I know today (Car goes on sale next year not in 2016) don't give a lick about hybrids and all the 18-22 year old kids I see hanging out every night at the local strip mall in the done up Si's, RSX's and WRX's don't seem to concerned about the environment as they sit in a parking lot with their car running.
That isn't to say the CR-Z is a bad idea. Its a noble effort, I just don't think it will make a lot of business sense. At least initially.
10-08-2009, 02:40 PM
#160
