Honda Considering Deisels for US

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Old 08-30-2004 | 08:04 AM
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Honda Considering Deisels for US

Honda considering diesels for U.S. market; engineers confident of meeting standards
YUZO YAMAGUCHI | Automotive News
Posted Date: 8/30/04
TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. is studying whether to bring diesel engines to the United States.

Honda has no immediate plans, but its engineers are confident that they can reduce harmful emissions from the company's diesel engines to meet stringent U.S. standards.

"We've got to cut NOx (oxides of nitrogen) and PM (particulates matter), so that we can get ready to get in the U.S. market" if diesel demand rises, said Kenichi Nagahiro, the senior chief engineer in charge of diesel engines.

Honda Motor CEO Takeo Fukui supports the effort. "There would be room in America for a diesel vehicle to get in" he said at a company press event here last week. Honda already sells diesel-powered cars in Europe.

Honda is trying to cut NOx emissions to meet California standards - 0.07 grams per mile. The diesel-powered Honda Accord, which is sold in Europe, emits about 0.28 grams per mile, Nagahiro said. The Accord's diesel engine was designed and manufactured by Honda.

He said it's a "big challenge" to meet the California standards, but he expects Honda to do it "in the near future." Nagahiro declined to say when.

Some automakers are looking at offering diesels in the fall of 2006, when petroleum companies will start selling low-sulfur diesel fuel in the United States. Low-sulfur diesel fuel permits lower NOx emissions.

Under today's emission standards, diesels are common on full-sized pickups in the United States. Volkswagen offers diesels in the Golf, New Beetle, Jetta, Passat and Touareg. Mercedes is selling a diesel-powered E class, and Jeep will start selling a diesel-powered Liberty this fall.

Both California and the federal government have adopted significantly tougher tailpipe emission standards that are being phased in during the 2004-09 model years. They aim for sharp cuts in NOx and particulates, which are problems for diesels.

The federal standard, while similar to California's, provides flexibility, accommodating some diesels in states that don't use the California rules.

A diesel-powered car typically gets about 25 percent better mileage than an equivalent gasoline-powered car. Demand for diesels could rise significantly if gasoline prices, hovering around $2 a gallon, stay high, as many experts predict they will. Diesel fuel costs about 10 cents a gallon less than regular-grade gasoline.

But American consumers largely have shunned diesels because the vehicles have been smelly, noisy or dirty.

"That kind of image can be erased by a technology," Nagahiro said.

Mercedes-Benz plans to include a urea tank in each diesel E320 sold in the United States beginning in late 2006 or early 2007. Urea reduces NOx to elemental nitrogen and water vapor.

One Deisel Honda Fit please
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:09 AM
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I can see diesel coming to the rest of the country, but California, probably not. In recent history, few manufacturers have been able to meet California's emission requirements with a diesel engine so unless Honda tries something totally radical, then there likely will be no diesel in Cali.
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:12 AM
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Honda could follow MB and release the current version of the diesel sold in Europe in NA but just not sell it in CA. Then, by 2007 they could modify it to become CA approved as well.
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:14 AM
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I never got an answer to this before: what's to keep someone from registering a used non-CA specific car in CA?
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
I never got an answer to this before: what's to keep someone from registering a used non-CA specific car in CA?

An emission test?

Here in Ontario you have to have a passed emission certifictae to be able to register a vehicle.
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by domn
An emission test?

Here in Ontario you have to have a passed emission certifictae to be able to register a vehicle.
I don't know if CA even has one for diesels - I don't think there's any car that meets CA rules - besides - you can probably fake out one of those tests.
Old 08-30-2004 | 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
I never got an answer to this before: what's to keep someone from registering a used non-CA specific car in CA?
Mandatory smog-test every few years. Plus, to get an out of state vehicle registered in California, you need to present a current smog certificate that says the car passes California's emissions requirements.
Old 08-30-2004 | 09:21 AM
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Instead of waiting to see what happens, Honda should bring the TSX diesel here NOW! The engine is widely regarded as one of, if not the best small diesel engines out there right now. The Accord diesel was Auto Expresses Executive Diesel car of the year (beating even the vaunted 530i diesel). Common Honda, lead the way like you used too!
Old 08-30-2004 | 09:23 AM
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Diesels are much bigger sellers in Canada then they are in the US.

Here's a quote from a VW press release:
That should pose little discouragement for buyers, especially in Canada, where 40 per cent of Volkswagen sales are diesels, compared with 10 per cent in the U.S.
I think a highly efficent Honda diesel will sell well here.
Old 08-30-2004 | 09:52 AM
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I'm guessing the 2006 Civic or Fit/Jazz will be the first to have this in the US though most likely it'll only be sold in 45 states.
Old 08-30-2004 | 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Diesels are much bigger sellers in Canada then they are in the US.


I think a highly efficent Honda diesel will sell well here.
Bingo. Without a doubt every second new Jetta I see (if not more) around here is a diesel. I know people who have been trying to get Honda Canada to bring the TSX diesel here, but the arguement falls on deaf ears. Honda Canada (and maybe American Honda has a bigger play in this) operates on the notion that they know what the customers want, and doesn't bother listening to what their dealers are telling them. They're actually really starting to remind me of GM. Don't get me wrong, their product in no way sucks like a mid 90s GM, but the parallels are surprisingly similar.
Old 08-30-2004 | 11:21 AM
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Yeah, I wish Mr. Honda was still alive, he didn't let success go to his head. I think that is Honda's problem today, they are overly cautious, don't take risks. The current Civic is a good example. Great car, a little bland even for Honda. Its too much like a Corolla in that its vanilla and no excitement. Thankfully Honda has realized its mistake, courtesy of Mazda. Competition is great
Old 09-21-2004 | 02:01 PM
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This was reported on motorweek on TV this week as well..

Once low sulfer diesel shows up theres no reason that a 40mpg accord wouldnt be possible..
Old 09-21-2004 | 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
One Deisel Honda Fit please
or a diesel powered Accord and TSX would be great too.
Old 09-21-2004 | 03:12 PM
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or an IMA + AWD + diesel TSX...oh yeah!
Old 09-22-2004 | 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mg7726
or an IMA + AWD + diesel TSX...oh yeah!
What would be the point - the diesel already gives you the gas milage improvements the IMA gives gas engines. Plus, it would be much harder to integrate the diesel with IMA because of the startup issues.
Old 09-22-2004 | 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gfxdave99
Once low sulfer diesel shows up theres no reason that a 40mpg accord wouldnt be possible..
It's already happening in Europe on the diesel Euro Accord.
Old 09-24-2004 | 09:15 PM
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If Honda makes CA emissions they will be king. As far as bringing the diesels, bring em already, the new VW tdi's are registered the same as the prius hybrid, partial zero emissions. Honda should join in with some reliability, 05 civic CRD would be sweet.
Old 10-04-2004 | 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gfxdave99
Once low sulfer diesel shows up theres no reason that a 40mpg accord wouldnt be possible..
Properly driven, it is already possible.
Old 10-04-2004 | 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sauceman
Properly driven, it is already possible.
Only if you're teh Sauceman!
Old 10-05-2004 | 12:58 PM
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In the sauceman's hands, a diesel TSX would be nearing the 90MPG they got on the track.
Old 10-05-2004 | 02:44 PM
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I'd love to see if I could best it.
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