Honda: Civic News
04-07-2011, 12:32 AM
#2122
While not as good as seeing it in person, video does give you a better sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tohBE...eature=related
In a photo, I agree that the front of the Elantra looks a bit weird, but in person, it comes together much better.
As for the Civic, I wish that Honda went w/ a more daring, fresher design, but still, Honda did improve on what I most disliked about the current Civic, the "jellybean" roofline/greenhouse.
The new Civic sedan now has a sleeker, say Teutonic look to it, which is an improvement.
I actually like the sedan, the new version of the coupe, not so much (but then again, it may look better in real life).
04-07-2011, 07:59 AM
#2123
Senior Moderator
Did my best Brenda Priddy impersonation today. 
It looks pretty good in the flesh. The blue isn't a great color IMO but the car looked far better than the 11' coupe I test drove on Saturday. I only imagine the Si will look that much better with the bigger wheels.
It looks pretty good in the flesh. The blue isn't a great color IMO but the car looked far better than the 11' coupe I test drove on Saturday. I only imagine the Si will look that much better with the bigger wheels.
04-07-2011, 12:04 PM
#2124
You'll Never Walk Alone
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What kind of rear suspension does the new Civic have? The more sophisticated, expensive multi-link suspension like the current Civic, Mazda3, and Ford Focus? Or the cheap torsion beam found in the European Civic, Elantra, Corolla, new downgraded Jetta, and Cruze?
As a car enthusiast, I sure hope Honda is keeping the multi-link suspension. I hope it doesn't try to add more features by putting a cheap torsion beam suspension just to satisfy the majority of the customers....
As a car enthusiast, I sure hope Honda is keeping the multi-link suspension. I hope it doesn't try to add more features by putting a cheap torsion beam suspension just to satisfy the majority of the customers....
04-07-2011, 05:12 PM
#2125
Midnight Marauder
The back wheels look so small on theses cars, both the Civic and the Huyndai. I understand these are supposed to be economy cars, but still, couldn't they have made the rear less tall to offset the little wheels?
04-07-2011, 10:38 PM
#2126
04-08-2011, 06:04 AM
#2127
AZ Community Team
, from the "Acura has failed" to "Honda is doomed" it's amusing to look back at some of the rants. The AZ drama queens have been pretty quiet lately 
04-08-2011, 06:18 AM
#2128
Your Friendly Canadian
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From the computer screen, it looks like a step back IMO. The rear looks taller and narrower, which I don't think is a good thing. Nice catch, though.
04-08-2011, 01:25 PM
#2130
Senior Moderator
I think with this Civic we saw quite a bit of praise and relief at the concept stage followed by some negativity when the official pics hit. Personally I'm more worried about interior quality and layout than I am the exterior. The previous gen was never a bad looking car so its stands to reason that this one won't be either. To my eyes its better looking than the previous gen, at least in coupe form.
04-08-2011, 04:23 PM
#2132
I seem to recall a lot of 'we waited 6 years for this?" or "this is just a MMC not a FMC" type of comment. I'm not too worried about the interior quality, layout will probably be personal preference.
04-08-2011, 04:26 PM
#2133
That said, I liked the Civic concept and bit my tongue after the production pics came out. We'll see how it looks in person. I'm a big fan of going back to the ergonomic driver-centric interiors, but it seems like I'm one of the few. It's a different perspective when you sit in the driver's seat.
They'd better have an LSD...
04-08-2011, 04:52 PM
#2134
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Didn't the last gen Si have LSD on them??
04-08-2011, 07:11 PM
#2135
Senior Moderator
I know my concerns with the new car were always the rear end of the sedan (still love the rear of the current car) and the interior. But ya, otherwise, most people got their back up for nothing. But don't forget about all the positive comments when the Si concepts were shown. That white Si sedan was nicely done. I'm not as convinced as you are about the interior. Going by the pics so far I see lots of cheap plastic. Again, I'll have to see it first hand before passing judgement. But I can't recall any Honda product released in the last 5 years that had an equal, much less better interior than its predesesor. (A Toyota problem as well) The Insight was a new low IMO. Yet the Fit and CR-Z interiors are pretty good.
Last edited by dom; 04-08-2011 at 07:15 PM.
04-08-2011, 08:53 PM
#2137
04-09-2011, 10:37 PM
#2138
spy pics of the hatchback we still won't get. i like the shape here, it now looks more proportional
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Galleries/...12%20%28Spy%29
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Galleries/...12%20%28Spy%29
04-10-2011, 12:16 AM
#2139
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Link isn't working for me. Is this it?
04-10-2011, 08:19 AM
#2140
^ yes but the Pontiac Aztec cladding is not on these spyshots, just tape
link is working for me...
link is working for me...
04-10-2011, 08:27 AM
#2141
AZ Community Team
Except when it came to the 09-11 TL, I was like, "ew.... guess I'll have to see it in person" to "omigawd WTF is that spaceship?"
That said, I liked the Civic concept and bit my tongue after the production pics came out. We'll see how it looks in person. I'm a big fan of going back to the ergonomic driver-centric interiors, but it seems like I'm one of the few. It's a different perspective when you sit in the driver's seat.
They'd better have an LSD...
That said, I liked the Civic concept and bit my tongue after the production pics came out. We'll see how it looks in person. I'm a big fan of going back to the ergonomic driver-centric interiors, but it seems like I'm one of the few. It's a different perspective when you sit in the driver's seat.
They'd better have an LSD...
Agree, the 4G TL was a large drop in exterior style from the 3G. the pre-MMC didn't look good in photo's or in person.My brother has a 8G Civic, and I'm curious to see how the 9G is in person. The 8G was a great model, my mom had a 7G and it was very boring in style inside and out. The 8G to me was far better than a Fit.
When my brother was looking to replace his 4G Civic, he took me along and we drove a Fit and I thought it was too much like a toy compared to the 8G Civic. It was also strange that the dealers wanted list for the Fit (it just came out so I figured there was some early adopter demand), and were dealing between invoice and below but above hold-back.
04-11-2011, 09:36 AM
#2142
04-11-2011, 09:39 AM
#2143
Excellent. If only that was a hatch like the Scion tC. I like the lip on the trunk. Very nice.
04-11-2011, 09:41 AM
#2144
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W/ a lot of these cars with, well, more "complicated" sheetmetal, seeing them only in a "flat" 2-dimensions can throw off the looks of the design.
While not as good as seeing it in person, video does give you a better sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tohBE...eature=related
In a photo, I agree that the front of the Elantra looks a bit weird, but in person, it comes together much better.
As for the Civic, I wish that Honda went w/ a more daring, fresher design, but still, Honda did improve on what I most disliked about the current Civic, the "jellybean" roofline/greenhouse.
The new Civic sedan now has a sleeker, say Teutonic look to it, which is an improvement.
I actually like the sedan, the new version of the coupe, not so much (but then again, it may look better in real life).
While not as good as seeing it in person, video does give you a better sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tohBE...eature=related
In a photo, I agree that the front of the Elantra looks a bit weird, but in person, it comes together much better.
As for the Civic, I wish that Honda went w/ a more daring, fresher design, but still, Honda did improve on what I most disliked about the current Civic, the "jellybean" roofline/greenhouse.
The new Civic sedan now has a sleeker, say Teutonic look to it, which is an improvement.
I actually like the sedan, the new version of the coupe, not so much (but then again, it may look better in real life).
04-11-2011, 08:06 PM
#2146
^ no, go back to TOV
04-20-2011, 07:25 AM
#2147
Safety Car
On Sale
Honda slams into the small-car market today as it puts its multiple-model Civic compact on sale, starting at $16,535 including shipping. That's $840 more than the Hyundai Elantra, which was redesigned for 2011 and quickly has emerged as one of the champs of the compact car class.
Honda says it will sell the natural-gas-fueled version of Civic nationwide, not just in some regions, but won't put the first n.g. cars in showrooms until fall, then spend another year getting them into all markets.
Too, the high-performance version of the sedan and coupe, called Si, hits dealerships May 24, Honda says. Meantime, you have your choice among a robust array:
Gasoline mainstream sedans and coupes.
Hybrid sedan that has an easy to remember fuel-economy rating: 44/44/44.
HF fuel-efficient model that gets several more mpg than the otherwise similar gas engine sedan.
We'll give you the lowdown on Civic in this Friday's Test Drive column, but for now you need to know that the hybrid still shimmies when the gas engine restarts and that the Si version has a little more horsepower, a lot more torque., making it easy and satisfying to drive.Hybrid sedan that has an easy to remember fuel-economy rating: 44/44/44.
HF fuel-efficient model that gets several more mpg than the otherwise similar gas engine sedan.
HF is a painless way to save gas; no drivability or power compromises, but is it worth the extra dough?
We've included the price sheet straight from Honda's announcement. Even if you aren't that interested in the MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price), it's worth a quick look just to see the staggering number of different Civic models. The details:
Sedan, Transmission, MSRP (excluding $750 shipping), MPG City/Hwy/Combined
Civic DX Sedan 5-Speed Manual $15,805 28/36/31
5-Speed Automatic $16,605 28/39/32
Civic LX Sedan 5-Speed Manual $17,855 28/36/31
5-Speed Automatic $18,655 28/39/32
Civic HF 5-Speed Automatic $19,455 29/41/33
Civic EX Sedan 5-Speed Automatic $20,505 28/39/32
Civic EX Sedan with Navi 5-Speed Automatic $22,005 28/39/32
and XM Radio
Civic EX-L Sedan 5-Speed Automatic $21,955 28/39/32
Civic EX-L Sedan with Navi and XM Radio 5-Speed Automatic $23,455 28/39/32
Civic Si Sedan 6-Speed Manual $22,405 22/31/25
Civic Si Sedan with summer tires 6-Speed Manual $22,605 22/31/25
Civic Si Sedan with Navi
and XM Radio 6-Speed Manual $23,905 22/31/25
Civic Hybrid
Civic Hybrid Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) $24,050 44/44/44
Civic Hybrid with Navi and XM Radio Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) $25,550 44/44/44
Civic Hybrid Sedan with Leather Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) $25,250 44/44/44
Civic Hybrid Sedan with Leather, Navi and XM Radio Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) $26,750 44/44/44
Coupe
Civic DX Coupe 5-Speed Manual $15,605 28/36/31
5-Speed Automatic $16,405 28/39/32
Civic LX Coupe 5-Speed Manual $17,655 28/36/31
5-Speed Automatic $18,455 28/39/32
Civic EX Coupe 5-Speed Manual $19,705 28/36/31
5-Speed Automatic $20,505 28/39/32
Civic EX Coupe with Navi and XM Radio 5-Speed Automatic $22,005 28/39/32
Civic EX-L Coupe 5-Speed Automatic $21,955 28/39/32
Civic EX-L Coupe with Navi and XM Radio 5-Speed Automatic $23,455 28/39/32
Civic Si Coupe 6-Speed Manual $22,205 22/31/25
Civic Si Coupe with summer tires 6-Speed Manual $22,405 22/31/25
Civic Si Coupe with Navi and XM Radio 6-Speed Manual $23,705 22/31/25
Civic Si Coupe with Navi, XM Radio and summer tires 6-Speed Manual $23,905 22/31/25
04-20-2011, 08:19 AM
#2148
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Im surprised no one mentioned this:
http://ca.jalopnik.com/5793446/the-2...p-hoodie-ninja
Thanks to a Honda embargo, I can't tell you many details about the 2012 Civic line, including the new Si. But I can show you the unfinished commercials a Honda dealer threw up on YouTube touting the Si's 201 hp.
The too-cute ninja in non-threatening chase scenario — still lacking some key CGI shots — will get filled out by a cast of other "characters" in Honda's ads, including a zombie and a hybrid-owning woodsman, to highlight how the Honda Civic is the preferred ride for those circus freaks and society's disenfranchised who can still qualify for a car loan.
The woodsman ad also lets slip the fuel economy numbers of the 2012 Civic hybrid: 44 miles per gallon in both city and highway driving, up from 40/43 in the current model but still a few ticks shy of the Toyota Prius. Both ads also throw in a few glimpses of the new Civic's interior. Check back tomorrow for the real story.
UPDATE: And the clips have been yanked, at least so they can add in the video game the ninjaette was playing.
The too-cute ninja in non-threatening chase scenario — still lacking some key CGI shots — will get filled out by a cast of other "characters" in Honda's ads, including a zombie and a hybrid-owning woodsman, to highlight how the Honda Civic is the preferred ride for those circus freaks and society's disenfranchised who can still qualify for a car loan.
The woodsman ad also lets slip the fuel economy numbers of the 2012 Civic hybrid: 44 miles per gallon in both city and highway driving, up from 40/43 in the current model but still a few ticks shy of the Toyota Prius. Both ads also throw in a few glimpses of the new Civic's interior. Check back tomorrow for the real story.
UPDATE: And the clips have been yanked, at least so they can add in the video game the ninjaette was playing.
Must be gearing?
04-20-2011, 10:17 AM
#2151
Senior Moderator
From AutoBlog.
Ouch.
The interior is a train wreck IMO. Definitley looks cheap.
More good news is that its down in weight across the board yet up in interior volume.
The dash has an even more driver-oriented pitch than before, and stacked layers of hard-plastic modules give the surface a disjointed, Picasso-like feel.
Unfortunately, the kit just doesn't manage to stack up to the cabins of three of the newest competitors on the block: the 2011 Hyundai Elantra, 2012 Ford Focus and the 2011 Chevrolet Cruze. Each of those vehicles offers a more up-scale, sorted dash while the Civic's cabin seems to have been lifted straight from the 1995 Prelude.
The interior is a train wreck IMO. Definitley looks cheap.
In addition, a new Econ mode can be activated with a push of a button. The system automatically adjusts the vehicle's throttle-by-wire, shift mapping and air conditioning to make the Civic a more efficient vehicle overall. We wouldn't recommend mashing the little green button unless you're perfectly comfortable with full castration. The change is immense.
In Si trim, the upper gauge cluster serves up a few special tricks. For starters, the i-MID can be calibrated to display a special Power Monitor for real-time stats on engine power output. But the coolest part comes in the form of a sequential shift light nestled to the far left. Yellow and red LEDs illuminate beneath an i-VTEC logo, allowing stoplight racers everywhere to know exactly when the system engages. It's perhaps the single greatest piece of meme bait we've seen from any manufacturer in recent memory.
More good news is that its down in weight across the board yet up in interior volume.
04-20-2011, 10:23 AM
#2152
Race Director
Unfortunately, the kit just doesn't manage to stack up to the cabins of three of the newest competitors on the block: the 2011 Hyundai Elantra, 2012 Ford Focus and the 2011 Chevrolet Cruze. Each of those vehicles offers a more up-scale, sorted dash while the Civic's cabin seems to have been lifted straight from the 1995 Prelude.
04-20-2011, 10:23 AM
#2153
04-20-2011, 10:39 AM
#2155
Safety Car
AutoBlog
Regardless of her stance on baked goods, Marie Antoinette didn't quite grasp the severity of country's condition until the French Revolution was in full swing and her husband was conspicuously absent of his head. Just as General Armstrong Custer dismissed the might of the Northern Cheyenne and Captain Edward John Smith failed to accurately read the waters of the North Atlantic, human history is filled to the brim with figures who didn't discover the danger they were in until it was much too late.
When Honda unveiled the 2012 Civic at the 2011 Detroit Auto Show, many critics were quick to put Honda in the same illustrious company. With an army of all-new compacts from automakers like Ford, Chevrolet and Hyundai all set to kick down the Honda gates, fans were thirsty to see a vehicle that was as innovative in design as it was in engineering. Instead, the Japanese manufacturer unveiled a compact car that looked startlingly similar to its eighth-generation predecessor.
We shouldn't have been surprised. Since the Civic 1st hit the market 38 years ago, Honda has stuck to a tried-and-true update regimen for its star model. Every other generation has delivered a mild revision of the preceding design, and the ninth take on the vehicle is no different. With a tweaked body, slightly adjusted interior and nudges to the suspension and drivetrain, the 2012 Civic is effectively generation 8.1, but that just might be enough to keep the hordes at bay and Honda out of history's dog house.
According to Honda, the designers of the 2012 Civic came to the U.S. for inspiration and found that the "1 motion" concept of the '06 model was so well-liked that they simply decided to expand on the theme. If that's true, they've done an excellent job. It's difficult to pick the two models apart with a casual eye, though more faithful followers of Honda will notice a few more lines in the vehicle's front fascia and reworked headlights. Combined with a mesh grille, the details go a long way toward giving the compact an updated appearance.
The rear of the vehicle is adorned with new bodywork dominated by large, re-styled tail lamps and a slightly more expressive valance. The look does away with the slabish metal of the outgoing generation and makes the sedan appear considerably lighter on its feet than before. In coupe form, the styling seems lifted from the very-attractive Accord Coupe, and the lines wear well on the slighter form of the Civic.
If you were holding your breath in hopes that Honda would grace the American market with a resurrected Civic hatch, we're sorry to tell you that the company has no interest in bringing a three- or five-door compact to the market. That's despite the fact that both Ford and Hyundai clearly think the notion has legs. The reasoning is that Honda believes the large majority of American buyers don't want the extra functionality.
Overall, the new exterior is a logical progression from the eighth generation, and the 2012 Civic remains very attractive in coupe, sedan or hybrid guise. Likewise, the vehicle's cabin has been taken to the next level as well, though with mixed results. The dash has an even more driver-oriented pitch than before, and stacked layers of hard-plastic modules give the surface a disjointed, Picasso-like feel. The new design makes the eighth-generation dash seem calm by comparison.
If you found issue with the split-gauges of the last-gen car, you'll find no sanctuary behind the wheel of the 2012 model. The upper screen has been elongated to incorporate what Honda calls its i-MID system, or intelligent Multi-Information Display. The high-resolution five-inch LCD screen puts the navigation display to shame and educates the driver on audio selections, turn-by-turn directions and vehicle information. You can even upload your own personal backgrounds or leave the screen blank should you find it too distracting. Check out the Short Cut below for a demonstration. Oh, and don't listen to the narrator when he says its a 2011 model. He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
In Si trim, the upper gauge cluster serves up a few special tricks. For starters, the i-MID can be calibrated to display a special Power Monitor for real-time stats on engine power output. But the coolest part comes in the form of a sequential shift light nestled to the far left. Yellow and red LEDs illuminate beneath an i-VTEC logo, allowing stoplight racers everywhere to know exactly when the system engages. It's perhaps the single greatest piece of meme bait we've seen from any manufacturer in recent memory.
The good news is that Honda has implemented a handful of different colors and textures that serve to keep the dash from being completely unbearable. Unlike many low-buck offerings, the Civic hasn't resorted to graining its plastic to appear soft-touch. Instead, the materials give off an almost recycled aesthetic. Strangely enough, the dash uses harder materials that are more difficult to scratch than the door panels, which can be marred by an errant thumbnail.
Unfortunately, the kit just doesn't manage to stack up to the cabins of three of the newest competitors on the block: the 2011 Hyundai Elantra, 2012 Ford Focus and the 2011 Chevrolet Cruze. Each of those vehicles offers a more up-scale, sorted dash while the Civic's cabin seems to have been lifted straight from the 1995 Prelude.
Honda actually clipped the wheelbase of the 2012 Civic by 1.2 inches in the sedan and 1.1 inches in the Coupe for added maneuverability, but still managed to increase interior room. In 4-door configuration, total passenger volume has grown by 3.7 cubic feet thanks to additional hip room in all seating positions and shoulder area up front. As a result, the cabin feels more open and offers more rear legroom than the Focus, Elantra or Cruze. The latter 2 of those fighters best the Civic in front legroom, however.
With so many manufacturers introducing direct injection, turbocharging and highly efficient transmissions to the compact segment, it was only natural to expect Honda to freshen up the drivetrain options in the Civic in kind. But by and large, the automaker left the hood closed for the ninth generation. Models from the DX, LX, EX and Natural Gas to the newly-minted HF will all get their power from the same 1.8-liter, single-overhead cam i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine found in the last Civic.
With 140 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque, the engine is as rev-happy as ever and begs to caned in all the right ways. Buyers can pick between either the optional five-speed automatic gearbox or a 5-speed manual cog-swapper on lower trims, while the Civic Hybrid benefits from a CVT and the more menacing Si uses a 6-speed manual. Thanks to the addition of full electronic power-steering, a little friction reduction inside the engine itself and a few aerodynamic adjustments, the EPA says that the 1.8-liter powered 2012 Civic is able to return 28 mpg city and 39 mpg highway when equipped with the standard automatic transmission. The mileage would represents a 3 mpg city and 3 mpg highway bump over the 2011 model.
With 32 mpg combined, the base Civic beats out both the Chevrolet Cruze and Ford Focus at 31 mpg combined but falls behind the Hyundai Elantra at 33 mpg combined.
For buyers who want a truly-efficient gasoline-powered compact, Honda has resurrected its HF model designation to combat vehicles like the Chevrolet Cruze Eco and the Ford Focus SFE. The Civic HF uses additional under-body cladding to improve aerodynamics, special wheels, lighter tires and a unique rear deck lid spoiler to net 29 mpg city and 41 mpg highway with the 5-speed automatic transmission. Though those figures tie the HF with the Bow Tie on the combined scale, Honda is quick to point out that the domestic offerings require buyers to opt for a manual transmission.
We spent a fair portion of our time behind the wheel of an EX automatic sedan with brief stints in an Si, LX sedan and LX coupe with their respective manual offerings. After some time in a loaded EX-L that carried an MSRP of $24,205 with destination, we feel comfortable saying that if you have your heart set on a Civic, do yourself a favor and skip the topped-out trim. The leather seats, door inserts and wrapped steering wheel feel matched to a price point. The LX trim, on the other hand, offers quality cloth seats and a tiller that feels absolutely superb in your hands. It also weighs in at a very competitive $18,605 with destination when equipped with a 5-speed manual transmission.
On the road, the Civic Sedan feels comfortable, though the high-winding 1.8-liter 4-cylinder engine serves up its fair share of noise in the higher registers. Unlike some of its competition, the Civic still benefits from a 4-link independent rear suspension that translates into a very stable, planted platform over the inconsistent pavement of the Beltway outside of Washington, D.C. and into Maryland. Still, we can't help but feel that the springs and dampers are a little on the soft side in sedan guise. In more aggressive driving, the 4 door serves up characteristic understeer with a good amount of body roll for the class. Fortunately, hopping into the coupe alleviates most of that feeling. Whether it's the benefit of not having to lug around 2 extra doors or simply the way the rear suspension is calibrated on both vehicles, we prefer the coupe's dynamics by far.
When equipped with the optional five-speed automatic transmission, shifts are handled quickly and without any drama. The 2012 Civic never feels harried or flustered, and while we can only speculate that the vehicle could net even more impressive fuel economy from a 6-speed automatic or dual-clutch gearbox, the old unit has aged well. For those familiar with the Civics of old, sliding into the saddle of the 9th-generation feels just like pulling on your favorite pair of jeans. It's a level of familiarity that hasn't been lost through the modest exterior updates and bizarre interior.
With the standard manual five-speed transmission bolted behind the 4-cylinder, the vehicle almost begs to be thrashed thanks to a fairly short throw. Unfortunately, a miserably light clutch means your left foot is afforded little to no feedback whatsoever. Still, despite having fewer ponies and less torque than the Elantra, the Civic is more engaging to drive. If we were looking for compact kicks, however, we'd be tempted to stick with the 2012 Focus.
Perhaps the most surprising thing about the Civic is that despite shunning all of the fuel-saving advancements employed by its competition, the vehicle still manages to come out as a solid player on this field. While we'd all love to see Honda knock out some truly incredibly fuel economy figures with its vehicles, the truth is that the company hasn't seen the need to add either cost or complexity to its systems given the results the vehicle is delivering right now.
Honda is well aware of the rising tide of capable compacts, and while strong entries like the Elantra, Cruze and Focus may take a bite out of Civic sales in the long run, brand loyalists will still beat down dealer doors to get their hands on this newest piece of hardware. Besides, if you were hoping for a full-on Civic revolution, history would point to you not having to wait too long. We give it another 3 to 5 years before a completely-new generation surfaces.
In the meantime, the 2012 Civic offers plenty of space, competitive fuel economy and a drive that's entertaining enough to keep you from going flat-line on your way to the office. It's a recipe that's kept Honda on the right side of history for years and it doesn't look to be failing any time soon.
04-20-2011, 10:45 AM
#2156
Safety Car
Car & Driver
"People have been saying that Honda’s lost its mojo, but that’s not true. We just put it in a closet for a while.” That pronouncement comes from a Honda insider, delivered in a whisper, and on condition of anonymity. After all, with the demise of the S2000 sports car, the Si is the only four-wheeled Honda with any performance cred. But if you’ve been waiting for a significant uptick in Si mojo—enough to put it a little closer to the pace of the Mazdaspeed 3 or VW GTI—we just hope you aren’t holding your breath.
Specifically Speaking
Let’s look at some numbers. The outgoing Si was motivated by a 2.0-liter, naturally aspirated aluminum four with Honda’s clever iVTEC dual-overhead-cam system creating impressive top end power: 197 horses at 7800 rpm. It was typical of a generation of Honda engines that extracted serious output from small displacement: same 86-mm bore and stroke, lots of revs (8000-rpm redline), a little thirsty when pressed hard, and distinctly short on torque, but rewarding to the driver who valued a taste of racing technology in an affordable street car.
The new Si marches to a different beat, the 2.0 replaced by a 2.4-liter iVTEC four with a distinctly long-stroke design—87-mm bore and 99-mm stroke—that doesn’t quite provide the high-rpm rush of its predecessor. Redline (and the power peak) are both listed at 7000 rpm, which is odd, but there’s a smidge more top end—201 hp—and a notably fatter mid range. Displacement is the wellspring of torque, particularly in a naturally aspirated engine, and there’s considerably more of it here than in the old engine: 170 lb-ft at 4300 rpm versus 139 at 6100. You can expect more of this long-stroke approach in the future, as carmakers work to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.
A slick 6-speed manual continues to be the only transmission option—we’ve no complaints on that point—and EPA fuel-economy forecasts are unchanged: 22 mpg city/31 highway, with a strict diet of premium fuel still required.
The Package
The sheetmetal surrounding the Si’s new engine will look very familiar to the Civic faithful. There are fresh creases and new tweaks, but Honda chose to carry on with essentially the same slippery shape it introduced in 2005. Same doesn’t mean carbon copy, however. While most body dimensions are pretty much identical, the wheelbase has been shortened by1.1 inches on the coupe.
Given Honda’s emphasis on smooth ride quality—even in the Si—the shorter wheelbase may seem a little surprising. But the redesign also includes increased chassis rigidity—a 10 percent uptick in static rigidity, 12% in dynamic, according to the engineering team—meaning more latitude for suspension tuning. As before, the Si models get higher spring rates, harder suspension bushings, and firmer damping than lesser Civics. Honda also preserved the previous generation’s limited-slip diff and electric power steering.
The Sum of the Parts
Does all of this add up to a better Civic Si? As our drive was confined to very limited seat time on urban streets devoid of challenge—plus 1 run on a stadium parking lot autocross course—the jury is out. Grip seems adequate—the 17-inch wheel-and-tire package (215/45s) is unchanged—and an increase in front rotor size should produce improved braking, something the previous Si needed. And the intervention threshold of the stability-control system is high; weekend autocross warriors could well run competitive times without turning it off. Honda’s work with ride quality seems to have produced the desired result—if creamy ride quality is a key objective in a car such as this. However, the “motion-adaptive electric power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering” is light, vague, and, at 3.1 turns lock-to-lock, a little slow for a car in this class.
On the power side of the equation, the new Si’s around-town response seems a little more vigorous, delivering more thrust at lower rpm. And, although we miss the high-rpm scream of the 2.0, the 2.4-liter’s exhaust note has an authoritative tenor snarl. The question remains, however, whether the Si’s tiny horsepower increase will put it any closer to its hot-hatch rivals from Mazda and VW in a straight line. And we have yet to experience the hot ST version of the new Ford Focus.
Pricing Strategy
Pricing for the Civic Si coupe starts at $22,955, with the sedan opening at $23,155. The only standalone option is high-performance summer tires (add $200), while nav and satellite radio are baked into a $1500 package. That puts a loaded Civic Si right where pricing for either the Mazdaspeed 3 or the Volkswagen GTI begins.
So the new Si appears to be strategically positioned against the top dogs in this class. The quality of the interior materials has improved, the front buckets provide a little more lateral support—with no sacrifice in comfort—and the red accents and stitchery provide a sporty note without looking juvenile. Based on our very limited exposure, the new Si looks like it should at least be satisfying to just about anyone. On the other hand, if you—like us—had hoped for the sort of mojo that distinguished the last generation, you may be just a bit underwhelmed.
04-20-2011, 11:00 AM
#2159
The sizzle in the Steak
I never really had an issue with the two-tier dash in the civic...
however, clearly a blind man designed that center stack...
Whoever thought that a Honda Civic would be a top candidate for worst car interior design.
however, clearly a blind man designed that center stack...
Whoever thought that a Honda Civic would be a top candidate for worst car interior design.
04-20-2011, 11:02 AM
#2160
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
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Hehe, yeah still lurking every now and then. The 04 is still running strong (signature)!
But let's not hijack this...
I will be at then end of my lease on the CSX and maybe the Civic SI would be a natural replacement... But I do have a few interrogations, such as chassis behavior when driving heavy as well as aero performance.
But let's not hijack this...
I will be at then end of my lease on the CSX and maybe the Civic SI would be a natural replacement... But I do have a few interrogations, such as chassis behavior when driving heavy as well as aero performance.
