Honda: Civic News
11-18-2004, 07:03 PM
#163
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"Honda Civic" in the non-american markets, "Acura EL" most likely in the north american market.
So much for brand distinction between the premium brand and the common brand.
So much for brand distinction between the premium brand and the common brand.
The spyshot pic screams Daewoo.
11-18-2004, 08:13 PM
#165
Liquid Ice
Originally Posted by KavexTrax
"Honda Civic" in the non-american markets, "Acura EL" most likely in the american market.
So much for brand distinction between the premium brand and the common brand.
So much for brand distinction between the premium brand and the common brand.
I'd be surprised if the Honda Civic makes it into the American market as an Acura ... Although with BMW, Audi, and MB all putting out small luxury vehicles I guess it might make sense for Acura to follow suit with a tiny luxury hatchback.
11-21-2004, 02:08 AM
#166
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I wouldn't worry too much about that hatchback.
I think Honda will sell a wide variety of styles for this 8th generation Civic, some more NA biased, others more EDM and JDM.
Until I see some coupe or sedan pics, I won't judge the Civic.
I think Honda will sell a wide variety of styles for this 8th generation Civic, some more NA biased, others more EDM and JDM.
Until I see some coupe or sedan pics, I won't judge the Civic.
11-22-2004, 12:04 AM
#170
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06 Civic spy shot
http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery...ic_page_7.html
how do you guys like it... im not feeling it at all..
how do you guys like it... im not feeling it at all..
11-22-2004, 01:15 AM
#172
The Third Ball
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for ya. 
12-11-2004, 08:53 AM
#179
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Riiiiiight ... I'll believe it when I see it 
12-11-2004, 11:56 AM
#183
Awe crap, I had some hope for it with the initial spy pics, but now it looks fugly. Even with standard 17", those wheels still look tiny.
12-11-2004, 12:30 PM
#184
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Originally Posted by jts1207
I cant see having the S2000 at 240hp and a Civic at 250hp?
Here is 2.0 vs 2.2L
218.6 @ (lets say) 16% loss = 253.6 hp
12-11-2004, 12:34 PM
#185
Duck Fuke!
Originally Posted by dozorca
The 2.2L S2000 is 250 (dyno proven). It's underrated by Honda.
Here is 2.0 vs 2.2L
218.6 @ (lets say) 16% loss = 253.6 hp
Here is 2.0 vs 2.2L
218.6 @ (lets say) 16% loss = 253.6 hp
Ok, then a 250hp S2000 and a 250hp Civic.
12-11-2004, 01:15 PM
#187
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Originally Posted by dozorca
The 2.2L S2000 is 250 (dyno proven). It's underrated by Honda.
Here is 2.0 vs 2.2L
218.6 @ (lets say) 16% loss = 253.6 hp
Here is 2.0 vs 2.2L
218.6 @ (lets say) 16% loss = 253.6 hp
Well I question the reliability of that dyno considering nothing is identified, if anything I would guess one car to be modded and the other to be stock. 2nd the s2000 could make 260hp and a 250hp civic in the us still wouldn't make any sense.
12-11-2004, 01:53 PM
#188
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
Well I question the reliability of that dyno considering nothing is identified, if anything I would guess one car to be modded and the other to be stock. 2nd the s2000 could make 260hp and a 250hp civic in the us still wouldn't make any sense.
owners on the site had similar numbers. i was going to provide more detail, but this thread isn't about s2000.
I don't think it makes sense to have a 250hp civic in US and we most likely won't get that here, but the rest of the world is another story.
12-11-2004, 04:30 PM
#189
Liquid Ice
I own an '04 S2000, and while its true, the '04 S2000s usually dyno more than the 00-03s, they aren't any faster 0-60 or in the 1/4 mile. They're generally speaking about equal.
That said, a 250hp civic sounds awesome but it also would alienate Honda's luxury division (Acura) where the RSX only makes 210hp and the hot-selling TSX only makes 200hp. All rumors point to the TSX getting a hp bump in '06 along with the 3 year refresh for the TSX, but I'd be damn surprised to see the Civic Type-R hatchback making 250hp in the USA. It might make sense in Europe where the Civic Type-R already exists. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same 2.4L engine go into the re-designed TSX in the USA though with maybe a watered down Civic Si Hatchback version coming to the USA with 200-230hp.
Like others have said, it also doesn't make sense in terms of the S2000, which is currently advertised at 240hp. Look at the TL which Acura could have released the TL with 300hp but didn't since they didn't want to step on the RL/NSX's toes I'd be surprised if they did the same in the Honda lineup.
Of course, in favor of it, the S2000 is advertised @ 240hp, but so is the V6 Accord, and the new Hybrid Accord puts down more hp than the S2000.
Will definitely be interesting to see what happens.
That said, a 250hp civic sounds awesome but it also would alienate Honda's luxury division (Acura) where the RSX only makes 210hp and the hot-selling TSX only makes 200hp. All rumors point to the TSX getting a hp bump in '06 along with the 3 year refresh for the TSX, but I'd be damn surprised to see the Civic Type-R hatchback making 250hp in the USA. It might make sense in Europe where the Civic Type-R already exists. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same 2.4L engine go into the re-designed TSX in the USA though with maybe a watered down Civic Si Hatchback version coming to the USA with 200-230hp.
Like others have said, it also doesn't make sense in terms of the S2000, which is currently advertised at 240hp. Look at the TL which Acura could have released the TL with 300hp but didn't since they didn't want to step on the RL/NSX's toes I'd be surprised if they did the same in the Honda lineup.
Of course, in favor of it, the S2000 is advertised @ 240hp, but so is the V6 Accord, and the new Hybrid Accord puts down more hp than the S2000.
Will definitely be interesting to see what happens.
12-11-2004, 09:09 PM
#190
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The article is very clear. The 250HP would be in the case of the Type R, which we dont get here in the USA and if we did, it'd be in a new class of vehicles. Like go against the new gen. Gold R36, etc. In Europe they get it and it goes against the Focus RS, Clios, etc. So 250 make sense there. Plus by the time the Type R is available it will probably be two years from now.
12-11-2004, 09:14 PM
#191
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Originally Posted by LiQiCE
Look at the TL which Acura could have released the TL with 300hp but didn't since they didn't want to step on the RL/NSX's toes I'd be surprised if they did the same in the Honda lineup.
You guys pay too much attention to the claimed HP of a car. If the car is different enough, targeted at distinct markets, HP is secondary. A good example is the Z vs. the G35C. I mean, these cars have so many similarities, yet they are both offered by the same company. The target market is distinctly different, surely with some overlap, but distinct enough to justify the offering of both products.
Even if we got a 250HP Type R Civic, I just dont see how the S2000 would be severly canibalized. They are such different cars, one a roadster the other a hatchback (or even sedan/coupe). HP alone wont cut it.
12-12-2004, 07:05 AM
#193
Liquid Ice
Originally Posted by gavriil
I cant imagine someone within Honda/Acura saying "no please detune the TL by 30HP because it steps in the toes of the RL and the NSX". Especially the NSX. I just cant think of a prospect NSX buyer thinking of getting in a TL if it made 300HP. I am sure you agree.
You guys pay too much attention to the claimed HP of a car. If the car is different enough, targeted at distinct markets, HP is secondary. A good example is the Z vs. the G35C. I mean, these cars have so many similarities, yet they are both offered by the same company. The target market is distinctly different, surely with some overlap, but distinct enough to justify the offering of both products.
Even if we got a 250HP Type R Civic, I just dont see how the S2000 would be severly canibalized. They are such different cars, one a roadster the other a hatchback (or even sedan/coupe). HP alone wont cut it.
You guys pay too much attention to the claimed HP of a car. If the car is different enough, targeted at distinct markets, HP is secondary. A good example is the Z vs. the G35C. I mean, these cars have so many similarities, yet they are both offered by the same company. The target market is distinctly different, surely with some overlap, but distinct enough to justify the offering of both products.
Even if we got a 250HP Type R Civic, I just dont see how the S2000 would be severly canibalized. They are such different cars, one a roadster the other a hatchback (or even sedan/coupe). HP alone wont cut it.
The problem with the NSX is you're paying $80k for a car, and if it makes the "same" horsepower as a $30k TL, don't you think you'd be a little bit upset?
I know to the informed buyer, hp doesn't make as much of a difference and hell hp/weight ratio and area under the curve are even more important than just plain hp ... But the average American uses horsepower as an important number when they buy. Just like PC users use Mhz/Ghz on the speed of a computer ... horsepower is used for cars. Sure if I'm looking for a 4-door sedan, I'm not going to be cross shopping the NSX. But if I'm shopping for an NSX, I might be put off by the fact that Acura sells 2 other cars with the same horsepower for half the price.
The S2000/Civic Type R is a closer comparison ... yeah one is a roadster and the other is a compact hatchback/coupe, but I wouldn't be surprised if people would cross shop them. They're not so different except maybe in terms of price.
I'm not gonna spectulate on whether or not they're definitely going to bring the Civic Type R to the USA or not ... but I'd be surprised if they did.
12-12-2004, 11:44 AM
#194
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Originally Posted by LiQiCE
I think its not necessarily cutting into sales ... its marketability for their "top of the line" cars. There was an article saying that they had the TL's engine running at 300hp but they decided to back it off to 270hp .. can't remember where I read that article now, but the quote was from a Honda employee.
The problem with the NSX is you're paying $80k for a car, and if it makes the "same" horsepower as a $30k TL, don't you think you'd be a little bit upset?
I know to the informed buyer, hp doesn't make as much of a difference and hell hp/weight ratio and area under the curve are even more important than just plain hp ... But the average American uses horsepower as an important number when they buy. Just like PC users use Mhz/Ghz on the speed of a computer ... horsepower is used for cars. Sure if I'm looking for a 4-door sedan, I'm not going to be cross shopping the NSX. But if I'm shopping for an NSX, I might be put off by the fact that Acura sells 2 other cars with the same horsepower for half the price.
The S2000/Civic Type R is a closer comparison ... yeah one is a roadster and the other is a compact hatchback/coupe, but I wouldn't be surprised if people would cross shop them. They're not so different except maybe in terms of price.
I'm not gonna spectulate on whether or not they're definitely going to bring the Civic Type R to the USA or not ... but I'd be surprised if they did.
The problem with the NSX is you're paying $80k for a car, and if it makes the "same" horsepower as a $30k TL, don't you think you'd be a little bit upset?
I know to the informed buyer, hp doesn't make as much of a difference and hell hp/weight ratio and area under the curve are even more important than just plain hp ... But the average American uses horsepower as an important number when they buy. Just like PC users use Mhz/Ghz on the speed of a computer ... horsepower is used for cars. Sure if I'm looking for a 4-door sedan, I'm not going to be cross shopping the NSX. But if I'm shopping for an NSX, I might be put off by the fact that Acura sells 2 other cars with the same horsepower for half the price.
The S2000/Civic Type R is a closer comparison ... yeah one is a roadster and the other is a compact hatchback/coupe, but I wouldn't be surprised if people would cross shop them. They're not so different except maybe in terms of price.
I'm not gonna spectulate on whether or not they're definitely going to bring the Civic Type R to the USA or not ... but I'd be surprised if they did.
The prospect NSX buyer will not even care about the HP of the TL. Because if he were put off by that then he should be even more put off that the STi makes more HP than his 90K car.
The NSX's situation is a little unique due to the very low total HP from that engine for the known reasons, so this example is not really good. If Honda updated the NSX "properly" and followed the industry's trent it'd be making at least 390HP so the TL's 270 would have been a moot point.
But again, I disagree, the NSX buyer is not buying the NSX for its engine, but for all the other great things that make that car special. He wont care about the TL, nor the RL.
When you read that article about the TL's engine making 300HP, did they say why they detuned it? Or did it just say that they detuned it?
Finally, the RL makes 10 more HP than the NSX, why didnt they detune that one too?
12-12-2004, 01:34 PM
#196
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Honda, if they should muster up the juevos to release this vehicle, is trying to break out of the cycle that they're stuck in. The too-safe and conservative-up-the-ass cycle. That engine sounds very believable, and any/all S2000 owners should be jumping out of their seats, cause... just imagine what this means for your cars in the future.
As for the Civic in the pic... fuck! The headlights are too TSX! I hate that Honda and Acura designs seem to converge to the same point instead of taking two different directions. But I guess that's what happens when "two" car manufacturers reside under one umbrella.
As for the Civic in the pic... fuck! The headlights are too TSX! I hate that Honda and Acura designs seem to converge to the same point instead of taking two different directions. But I guess that's what happens when "two" car manufacturers reside under one umbrella.
12-14-2004, 11:18 AM
#198
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by Infamous425
its unlike them to put a 2.4 in a civic. whats the engine size now? 1.8? 2.0? the next engine realistically should be a retuned 2.0 or a 2.2
civic is stil using the old d-series engine. The new refresh it should move over to the K-series. It only makes sense as the accord and CRV are both using a K2x variant. Honda is consolidating their engine with 1 for smaller cars and 1 for larger. K series for the 4 banger and J series for the v6s. Civic displacement will be ATLEAST 2.0 as the base RSX and civic Si.
