Honda: Civic News

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Old 05-04-2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe
Mid-to-late 90s SLS was FWD: Kelley Blue Book
, a old boss from the late 90's had one.
I thought he was gonna wreck and kill us one night after he was trying to show me how fast his Northstar Caddy's was.
Old 05-04-2016, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
scratching with both hands while driving a FWD car can be extremely dangerous!!
i think it has more to do with his hands than which wheels to drive the car
Old 05-05-2016, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ttribe
Mid-to-late 90s SLS was FWD: Kelley Blue Book
The DeVille/DTS was FWD until they got rid of it in 2012. My mom used to get them as company cars, and they're pure garbage. I can't say enough bad things about them, haha.
Old 05-05-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Or was it the crabs
Originally Posted by TacoBello
scratching with both hands while driving a FWD car can be extremely dangerous!!

Old 05-05-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
you won't fully understand until you have double the torque at a much lower RPM

talking about Oh shit moment at 5mph...
haahaha I will find out more when I do some autoX later this year!
Old 05-05-2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
scratching with both hands while driving a FWD car can be extremely dangerous!!
Old 05-24-2016, 01:09 PM
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Here's a comparo between the Civic Type R and Focus RS:
Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R | PistonHeads

Quite an interesting result!
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
Here's a comparo between the Civic Type R and Focus RS:
Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R | PistonHeads

Quite an interesting result!
Good to see Honda has actually designed a gem. Hopefully people actually get to buy them someday.
Old 05-27-2016, 10:04 AM
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The only problem here is that we can't buy the friggin' Civic R!!!!
Old 06-27-2016, 08:28 AM
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One of my daughter's friends got a new 2016 Civic EX as a present from her grandfather. Didn't have a chance to look at it too long, but overall the 10G is a major step up from the 9G (my parent's and other daughter have 9G's).
Really impressed with the interior, the quality of the backup and side view camera's are amazing quality. Really nice.



Old 06-27-2016, 09:13 AM
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I'm more interested in your daughter's friend. Go on.
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:10 AM
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got any pictures?
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Old 06-27-2016, 04:17 PM
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of the car or Legend2TL's daughter's friend?
Old 06-27-2016, 04:24 PM
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Temple of VTEC Rumors and News - BREAKING: Hondata releases reflash for L15B7 (10th Gen Civic 1.5 Turbo), and we tested it

Hondata releaes the reflash for the 10th Gen Civic 1.5T:

From TOV:
  • Turbo spools about 500 rpm earlier than stock
  • 4 to 6 psi boost increase from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm
  • Fuel and ignition maps optimized
  • Hondata has observed a 20-28 hp increase from 4500 rpm to 6000 rpm
  • Partial throttle fuel economy unchanged
  • The reflash is tuned for performing best with a minimum octane of 91, though you can still safely run 87 octane.
  • The reflash will cost $295 + shipping. You will have to ship the original ECU to Hondata so plan on borrowing a car or getting a rental for a few days.
  • There's currently no FlashPro offered. Yet. Hondata is presently working on a FlashPro for the Civic 1.5T but do not have a release date.


Old 06-27-2016, 05:20 PM
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Yup, the days of NA performance are coming to an end... For $295 you get the same bang you'd get spending $2950 on an NA car. Sweet!
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:32 AM
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Very nice
Old 06-28-2016, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
Yup, the days of NA performance are coming to an end... For $295 you get the same bang you'd get spending $2950 on an NA car. Sweet!
at what cost tho?
The Ecoboost mustang is blowing up from tuning, I personally know a guy who went through three engines, then finally gave up and got a 5.0...

my co-workers ATS 2.0T blew from a tune...he took off the tune and had the engine warrantied ...then got rid of the car.
Old 06-28-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by justnspace
at what cost tho?
The Ecoboost mustang is blowing up from tuning, I personally know a guy who went through three engines, then finally gave up and got a 5.0...

my co-workers ATS 2.0T blew from a tune...he took off the tune and had the engine warrantied ...then got rid of the car.
Depends on the company or individual tuning the car, really. And how the driver treats the engine. And even the engine itself. Also the grade of oil used.

I've personally had no problems with my tuned 2.0EB - at 52k miles and tuned since mile 300, it's been a real pleasure.

Your sample size is very small and I think turbocharged engines will only become even more reliable in the coming years. And more common.
Old 06-28-2016, 09:23 AM
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I have a sneaking suspicion that Hondata wouldn't tune a completely stock engine into oblivion. Hondata has one hell of a reputation to uphold- I'd imagine they are looking to maximize efficiency out of the engine rather than go for all out performance. Who knows though. Time will tell if this is a bad move.

I agree with Phil- it really depends on who is doing the tune and just how hard they are squeezing every last horsepower out of an engine.

You are right, though, Justin. With boost comes great responsibility. NA is much, much safer.
Old 06-28-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Very nice
Legend2TL's daughter's friend?
Old 06-28-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
I'm more interested in your daughter's friend. Go on.
20 yr old, cute, UnivMD business major student

Originally Posted by oonowindoo
got any pictures?
Yep, but this is all you get

Originally Posted by iforyou
of the car or Legend2TL's daughter's friend?
, in the car are three of her friends but it's hard to see

Originally Posted by AZuser
Legend2TL's daughter's friend?

Last edited by Legend2TL; 06-28-2016 at 11:12 AM.
Old 06-28-2016, 11:30 AM
  #4382  
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Come on man....
Old 06-28-2016, 05:01 PM
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This thread needs some pics......

As far as reliability goes, it's a reflash, not an individualized tune....perhaps your Mustang and ATS friends have other mods and got personalized tuning, which might be way more aggressive than what Hondata is doing with their reflash?

The stock peak boost is 16.5psi for the 1.5T. The peak now is about 19-20psi. A bit higher, but not crazy. CLA45 AMG has a peak boost of 26psi.

I'd be more worried if it's a flashpro tuned by another tuner.
Old 06-28-2016, 05:48 PM
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Lol, 19-20psi is a lot of boost.
Old 06-29-2016, 08:39 AM
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I'm at a max boost of 21-22psi. It's a smaller turbo, though.
Old 06-29-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
of the car or Legend2TL's daughter's friend?
What car?

Originally Posted by justnspace
at what cost tho?
The Ecoboost mustang is blowing up from tuning, I personally know a guy who went through three engines, then finally gave up and got a 5.0...

my co-workers ATS 2.0T blew from a tune...he took off the tune and had the engine warrantied ...then got rid of the car.
Knowing owners of those cars they are all going too far. It's as much about being smart about how much the motor can safely handle as it is about getting the power. People have been tuning motors for decades, can't tell me that the EB motor in the mustang isn't able to handle a tune when there are thousands of tuned EB motors out there.
Old 06-29-2016, 10:36 AM
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my co-worker with the ATS used the Diablo sport hand held tuner,and if I recall, that's a flash.
it supports three different vehicles....Chevy, GM and I think Dodge or Ford

couldnt tell you about the ecoboost, cuz I met that dude at a meet where he confessed he blew three engines and had the shell in the garage..
Old 06-29-2016, 10:40 AM
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can't tell me that the EB motor in the mustang isn't able to handle a tune when there are thousands of tuned EB motors out there.
thats the thing tho...how many of those owners are going to tell you they fucked up?
the ecoboost guy was getting annoyed that i was prying. not embarassed, but I KNEW he didnt want to talk about it.
sure, he might have been pushing it to the absolute limit.....but still.
Old 07-13-2016, 06:46 AM
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MotorTrend


16 years ago, when I wrote “Commuter Combat,” comparing the Civic, Corolla, and Sentra, these were considered economy cars that people bought mostly for budgetary concerns. The consolation cars, as some called them, were low-cost, low-feature, and high-fuel-economy A-to-B transportation and little else. Passenger-side front airbags were optional. Cassette players were standard.

Surely, what shoppers pay at the dealership and at the pump are still valid concerns, but heated leather seats, backup cameras, rear cross-traffic alert, blind-spot monitors, lane keeping assist, forward collision alert (with automatic braking), adaptive cruise control, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, USB jacks, and Apple CarPlay are quickly becoming common, and many of the newer compacts here have many of these newer features despite our $25,000 target price ceiling. Safety also ranks high in consideration for this segment, which might explain the ever-growing scale of the cars themselves. In that same 2000 comparison test, the Civic transitioned from subcompact to compact car. 15 years on, the Civic now becomes a midsize car. Our Nissan Sentra and Toyota Corolla qualify as midsized cars, too, according to the EPA.

We’ll compare the objective merits of this mixed group of compact/midsized sedans in terms of crash testing, instrumented track tests, fuel economy measurements by the EPA and our Real MPG lab, and Intellichoice’s 5-year cost of ownership predictions. Then we’ll add in our subjective findings on an evaluation loop of varying roadways and rank them 1st to last. That’s the plan.

Let’s get to know the 5 finalists better. The 2017 Chevrolet Cruze is all-new this year, from platform to engine, and our Premier-level test car tops the model range. Both the Honda and Hyundai are new, too; the 2016 Civic EX (2.0L engine with the Honda Sensing advanced safety suite) is still a tier or 2 down from the most expensive Civic you can buy. No higher trim level than Limited is available for the 2017 Elantra, and it only went over our $25,000 cap by $685. Past readers of previous compact-car Big Tests will recognize the most recent winner, the 2016 Mazda3, this time in “i” Grand Touring trim, which is a relatively recent combination of the small-engined “i” with the high-end features of Grand Touring. And although the Volkswagen Jetta hasn’t been all-new since 2011, it did get a new engine this year that promises to be more frugal and just as fun as the 1 it replaces. (We also tested a 2016 Nissan Sentra SL and 2016 Toyota Corolla S Special Edition, neither of which made the finalist cut. You’ll read about them in the conclusion.)


Ride & Handling

The ever-delicate balance between a comfortable ride and nimble handling is something few get right, but it’s no surprise that the 3 cars with rear multilink suspensions were recognized as having come closest to the sweet spot. All but the Mazda3, Civic, and Jetta featured simpler (less expensive) twist-beam rear axles, and to keep the wallows away, the Cruze Premier augmented that with an effective Watts link. “Ride quality in the Civic, from low speeds to freeway speeds, is very good,” Angus MacKenzie said, “but crucially, it’s combined with decent body control, which means the Civic doesn’t fall apart dynamically when driven briskly through the twisties.” It also had fluid-filled suspension bushings to keep road noise down and variable ratio steering (10.9-14.1:1) that provided effective response at speed and easy low-speed maneuverability.

The Jetta was a close 2nd . “Certainly 1 of the best-equipped cars for a swift romp down Potrero Road,” Frank Markus said. “Dynamic behavior is quite good for the class—very much in keeping with its European roots, but I wish the steering felt as good as it does in the Mazda.” All of the compacts featured electric-assist power steering, directing with varying degrees of success (Mazda being tops), and speaking of the pointy Mazda, a consensus grew among us that although the stiff-sporty ride suits a Mazda3 hatchback buyer, perhaps it’s not as welcome in this more mainstream sedan. We expected the Mazda to perform better than it did, both on our objective handling tests (4th place on our figure 8 and tied for lowest lateral acceleration on the skidpad) and on the curvy roads. “I find myself thinking back and wondering why this car wasn’t as fun as I was expecting it to be,” Markus said.

We all felt like the Cruze had that big-car ride in a small-car package, as it did in its previous version. The platform is noticeably robust. “Its chassis is very buttoned down,” MacKenzie said. “Body motions are very tightly controlled, but the Cruze’s low-speed ride can be busy. It’s a decent drive through the twisties, but there’s not a ton of feel or feedback through the steering wheel.” Rounding out the top 5, the Elantra had brittle, arthritic ride qualities, and “steering and brake feel are notable mostly by being unnoteworthy,” Markus said. Jonny Lieberman put it through the bendy bits. “Turn the wheel just so, and the Elantra’s suspension goes haywire,” he said. “The car leans over. It hops. It’s bad.” Yet Christian Seabaugh congratulated the Elantra’s progress. “Hyundai’s come a long way on the ride-handling front,” he said. “The Elantra turns in well and rides decently. I don’t love the powertrain, though.”

Performance

Only 2 compact sedans here used turbochargers: the Volkswagen and the Chevy, both of which had 1.4-liter engines. The Cruze was the quickest to run to 60 mph (8.2 seconds), followed closely by the Jetta at 8.4 seconds. How successfully those 2 integrated their small-displacement, high-output engines and 6-speed automatic transmissions was apparent, however. We noted that although the Chevy’s shifts were smooth and crisp, the VW had it beat with the most sophisticated powertrain of them all—the greatest amount of torque available at the lowest rpm, thus virtually no turbo lag, better gear ratio choices, and a more responsive and intelligent transmission sewing it all together. The manual shift mode in the Jetta was a separate gate on the console shifter; for the Cruze it was a toggle button atop the console shifter, which cuts down on hardware complexity and would seem convenient, but it really isn’t.

Surprisingly, the car with the greatest horsepower and lowest weight (Civic) was just 3rd quickest to 60 mph. Blame the otherwise blameless CVT, which MacKenzie pronounced “a buzzkill in terms of performance feel and NVH” but which drew praise from everyone everywhere else. Markus found the CVT “a very willing partner in thrashing up Potrero Road.” What made this Honda CVT so much better than most (especially those in the Toyota and Nissan) is that it didn’t seesaw slowly and relentlessly among drive ratios, causing the engine to drone on and on. Instead, it quickly picked a suitable “gear” for a situation, held it, then when appropriate disappeared to an ultra-low final drive (1.91:1) for fuel economy. Despite chugging along most of the time at 2,000 rpm, the Civic was never caught on its heels, especially in Sport mode.

That leaves the 2 “conventional” 2.0-liter engine/6-speed automatic powertrains of the Mazda3 and Hyundai Elantra. Although 1 of the most vocal, the smooth-as-a-sewing-machine Mazda tied the VW for 2nd place to 60 mph and was a half-second quicker than the Elantra, which revealed drivability problems with its Atkinson cycle engine. Coarseness and an almost industrial quality were noted. MacKenzie echoed this opinion on the Elantra. “The engine can sound a little thrashy when revved, and there’s an odd inconsistency in power delivery to the front wheels,” he said. “It feels like the torque converter is locking and unlocking.” Seabaugh brought up an interesting point. “This car is really begging for the 1.6-liter turbo from the Sonata,” he said. “The transmission is also a bit slushy and indecisive when shifting. The 7-speed DCT that Hyundai uses in a lot of its products would be welcome here.”

Efficiency

Rather than just relying on observed or EPA-supplied fuel economy estimates, we have the advantage of scientifically measured results from our Real MPG lab. We calculate the variance between our real-world numbers and the EPA’s city/highway/combined estimates to gauge the likelihood a consumer will achieve the advertised claims. And just as your eyes glaze over, we’ll also crown 1 easy-to-understand “3-gallon champ,” or our outright most efficient compact we tested in each of those 3 categories.

Starting with EPA combined economy (now the largest number on window stickers because it most closely reports what a consumer can expect day to day), 2 of the 5 finalists claim 32 mpg, 2 claim 34 mpg, and 1, the Civic, claims 35 mpg. At the expense of power density, the only car in the test with an Atkinson cycle engine, the Hyundai Elantra, fiddles with its effective compression ratio to boost efficiency. It must work because it more or less matched its 32-mpg EPA estimate with a 32.2-mpg Real MPG combined average. The Honda Civic, the only finalist with a CVT, was the next closest to its EPA estimate but most efficient overall; it got within 98 percent of its 35-mpg claim (34.4 Real MPG). The Mazda3 (32.0 Real MPG) boasts a Skyactiv suite of technologies with direct fuel injection and a 13:1 compression ratio. Rounding out the finalists are 2 new turbocharged direct-injected engines, 1 in the Cruze, which came in at 31.9 Real MPG, and another in the Jetta, which got 29.1 Real MPG.

If you’re a regional salesman in Kansas, you’ll be happy to learn that 3 of the finalists overachieved their EPA highway economy estimates. The Elantra showed a 10.5% improvement over its 37-mpg claim with 40.9 highway Real MPG. The Jetta got 41.5 highway Real MPG, up from the EPA’s 39 mpg. The Civic improved from 41 mpg to 42.8 Real MPG. The Chevrolet and Mazda failed to meet their highway goals, the Cruze at 38.3 Real MPG (40 mpg EPA) and the Mazda at just 38.4 Real MPG (41 mpg EPA).

In the City test, none of the cars met their EPA estimates. Of note, we expected the Chevy Cruze, the only car here with a city-friendly auto stop-start engine, to perform better than it did. Still, the Cruze drew high praise from our crew for the nearly imperceptible operation of the non-defeat system at stoplights. In order of closest to farthest away from their EPA estimates: Hyundai (27.4 Real MPG to the EPA’s 28 mpg), Honda (29.6 to 31), Mazda (28.1 to 30), Chevrolet (28.0 to 30), and Volkswagen (23.4 to 28).

All of these results are difficult to parse. We know you just want to know which car is the most miserly with a gallon of gas. How about 3 gallons? Given just 1 gallon of gasoline for each test route, 1 in the city, 1 for the highway, and 1 in combined driving, the Honda Civic would travel the farthest, showing 106.8 miles on its trip meter. The rest are as follows: Hyundai Elantra (100.5 miles), Mazda3 (98.5 miles), Chevrolet Cruze (98.2 miles), and the Volkswagen Jetta (94.0 miles).

The takeaway? Despite not eclipsing the most ambitious EPA estimates of the group, the Honda Civic was still the most fuel-efficient sedan here and earns our 3-gallon champ congratulations. You’ll likely have the easiest time matching the Hyundai Elantra’s conservative EPA estimates. The 2 turbocharged cars (Chevy and VW), however, had the toughest time meeting the EPA’s estimates for fuel efficiency—even with our feather-footed lab-coat-wearing Real MPG drivers.


Cockpit/Cabin

Our favorite cabin was the leather-lined Chevrolet Cruze Premier. “It’s very rich with high-contrast black/butterscotch treatment and 2-tone stitching,” Markus said. “The use of chrome and piano black heightens the impression of class-above luxe and also whispers all-American.” MacKenzie wasn’t convinced by “an excessive and at times clumsy use of very shiny chrome.” Alisa Priddle noted the nice phone holder with wireless charging. “That kind of touch, along with the Wi-Fi hot spot, the only 1 in the group, wins over young buyers,” she said. “Rear passengers get special treatment, as well, with heated seats and a 12-volt outlet.” It wasn’t perfect, though, as the driver’s seat back rocked minutely but perceptibly on its hinges, and the seat belt mount isn’t adjustable for height. Shorter drivers will find it uncomfortably high on their necks.

Next, the Mazda3’s once-benchmark interior is highly functional and aging well, presented this time with faux carbon fiber and red stitching. Markus praised the built-in redundancies of its best-in-class infotainment controls. “I like the choice of iDrive-like control of the device, touching the screen, or using voice commands,” he said. “Belt, suspenders, and Sansabelt.” The driving position is 1 of the best, and complaints were few. It’s shy on small storage and rear kneeroom. It has a glitchy USB audio interface. And that itty-bitty LCD tachometer was nearly useless.

Were it not for its lack of an actual volume knob, the spacious Honda Civic EX’s clever “a place for everything/everything in its place” interior would have ranked higher. Neither the ill-conceived toggle/swipe controller on the steering wheel nor the dab/swipe strip on the touchscreen works very well. We can’t count the number of times drivers used the prominent knob to crank up the heat instead of the tunes. We’re glad to report the 2-tier instrument panel has been replaced by a crisply rendered color multidisplay, though again, navigating within it was made unnecessarily frustrating with the test’s worst steering wheel buttons. And both by supplied specs and Markus’ tape, the Civic’s interior offers the most leg- and shoulder-room (a little shy on headroom) of the finalists.

Seabaugh wasn’t quite sure what to make of the Elantra’s interior. “I’m honestly not sure if this is real leather or not,” he said, “but it feels real, which is all I suppose matters.” (It was real leather, by the way.) Markus wasn’t satisfied with the seats: “The perforated seats suggest cooling that isn’t here.” Yet it received glowing reviews of its BlueLink infotainment system, with Seabaugh leading the praise. “Modern, well organized, quick and intuitive,” he said. “Anyone can immediately feel at home after just minutes of playing with it.” And yet, much of it felt cheap. “There is a lot of hard plastic,” Priddle said, “and there are virtually no soft touchpoints on the door or armrests.” Finally, the Jetta. Although MacKenzie praised the Jetta’s design restraint, “not mistaking conservative for dull,” he called it “quietly sophisticated,” adding, “but it just doesn’t feel it, with too much obvious hard plastic and not enough surprise and delight.”

Safety

In an effort to improve fuel economy, manufacturers have put vehicles on a strict weight-reduction diet, but physics and common sense tell us that lighter vehicles fare worse in collisions. The solution, of course, is engineering and building these featherweights (2,790-3,058 pounds) so that their occupants have a higher liklihood of survivability. Smarter use of mixed materials, crumple zones, airbags, and whiplash-resistant head restraints have brought us only so far. The next step, which began in much higher-priced luxury cars, is to avoid the collision altogether with adaptive cruise control, forward collision alert (sometimes paired with emergency automatic braking), lane-departure warning (sometimes with lane keeping assist), blind-spot monitoring/warning, reverse cameras, and rear cross-traffic alert.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in conjunction with its New Car Assessment Program conducts thorough crash tests, as does the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. IIHS has led the way of late, with more numerous and more specialized tests. NHTSA’s full front- and side-crash tests (and rollover resistance computations) award up to 5 stars. The IIHS tests roof strength, moderate-overlap frontal-offset and small-overlap frontal-offset crash tests, and static and dynamic head restraint/seat tests, giving ratings of Poor, Marginal, Acceptable, and Good for each. They also evaluate child seat installation ease. To earn an IIHS Top Safety Pick+, “a vehicle must earn Good ratings in the 5 crashworthiness tests and an Advanced or Superior rating for front crash prevention.”

Of the finalists, 2 have yet to complete crash testing. The Elantra and the Cruze have no data from NHTSA. The Chevy is partially through IIHS, so far earning 2 of 5 Good ratings for moderate-overlap front and side crash tests. Considering the even smaller Chevrolet Sonic has already earned 5 Good ratings (and a TSP), the completely redesigned Cruze will likely garner a TSP, just shy of a TSP+ with the available forward collision alert (which lacks emergency braking). Similarly, the completely redesigned Elantra was no doubt engineered with the IIHS tests in mind. Available with both collision alert and automatic braking, it will likely get a TSP+ rating, just like the new Sonata did. That leaves the remaining Civic, Mazda3, and Jetta, all of which earned 5 stars from NHTSA and TSP+ from IIHS. Of these 3, however, only the Civic aced the forward crash prevention category with a Superior rating. It earned points for its ability to provide a warning and also for highly effective low- and high-speed automatic braking, completely avoiding a collision in both tests. The Mazda and Volkswagen earned Advanced ratings. The Mazda3 (if so equipped, but ours was not) failed to meet NHTSA forward collision warning criteria, but it avoided a collision in IIHS’s 12-mph low-speed test. Conversely, the Jetta (if so equipped) met criteria for forward collision warning, but in the 12-mph auto-brake test, impact speed was reduced to 3 mph. Boink. Neither the Mazda nor the Volkswagen proved effective in the high-speed 25-mph auto-brake test, both failing to reduce impact speed. Bam! Our Civic was equipped with this effective system, and although we appreciate the obvious automated safety net it provides, many of us found it to be overly sensitive in everyday bumper-to-bumper driving, tossing briefcases from the passenger seat to the floor on several occasions.

Value

It’s what you get for your money, and nobody wants to buy more car than they need, nor do they want to pay more than their neighbor for a similarly equipped car. It can also be a matter of priorities. Case in point? All the cars equipped with Apple CarPlay (Cruze, Civic, Elantra) lacked CD players, and vice versa, with the exception of the Jetta SE with Connectivity, which had both. How do you listen to your music? Or maybe extreme outdoor temperatures make a remote-starting car (Cruze and Civic) or heated leather front and rear seats (Cruze and Elantra) your must-haves.

So in an effort to quantify what you get for your money, we counted all the features on our finalists scorecards to see which car is loaded and which is stripped. Problem is, 3 finalists had 26 features, the other 2 had 22, and they all had different prices. That’s where our weighted scores come in. We put a higher value on expensive things such as keyless entry/ignition (weight of 3) than on that CD player (weight of 1). Doing all the math points to the Hyundai Elantra as the most feature-laden sedan here. But wait a moment: The Elantra was the most expensive, so it should have the highest number of nifty features. If we factor in the sedans’ as-tested prices divided by the weighted-feature score, we get a price-per-weighted-feature quotient, and the order shuffles again. The Honda, with the lowest as-tested price and an abundance of heavily weighted features, produces a $440-per-feature-point result. The rest are as follows: Elantra ($485), Cruze ($497), Mazda3 ($590), and Jetta ($691).

Cost of Ownership

There are several ways to slice this pie, and certain rows might be more important to you personally, but pretty much any way you read our 5-Year Cost of Ownership analysis, generated by IntelliChoice, it points to the Honda Civic as the thriftiest choice. Lowest depreciation, fuel cost, and repairs produced the lowest COO figure. The next in line is the Mazda3, which stands out for not standing out. The solid Mazda doesn’t have any hidden surprises lurking 5 years down the road. Volkswagen’s strength appears to be in low-cost financing. However, it also has the highest projected repairs costs. The Elantra takes a hit for its least competitive EPA fuel economy estimates and unexpectedly high insurance costs. Bringing up the rear is the Chevrolet Cruze, which suffers from precipitous depreciation and high financing and maintenance costs. What’s more alarming is that it has the highest target purchase price, which IntelliChoice explains is based on “destination charge and average applicable state taxes applied to a transaction price between invoice and retail prices, based on applicable incentives.”

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    2016 Chevrolet Cruze Premier     2016 Honda Civic EX     2017 Hyundai Elantra Limited     2016 Mazda3 (i Grand Touring)     2016 Nissan Sentra SL     2016 Toyota Corolla S Special Edition     2016 Volkswagen Jetta SE TSI
AVG STATE FEES     
$376     $380     $395     $393     $391     $383     $380
DEPRECIATION     
$13,372     $9,996     $12,620     $10,722     $12,900     $9,879     $10,775
FINANCING     
$2,759     $2,406     $2,744     $2,621     $2,705     $2,399     $2,368
INSURANCE     
$6,730     $6,881     $7,449     $7,098     $8,356     $7,675     $7,095
FUEL     
$4,706     $4,692     $5,197     $4,766     $5,041     $5,041     $5,056
MAINTENANCE     
$2,438     $1,660     $2,193     $2,020     $2,886     $1,827     $2,244
REPAIRS     
$657     $590     $178     $668     $618     $587     $771
5
-YEAR COST OF OWNERSHIP     $31,038     $26,605     $30,776     $28,288     $32,897     $27,791     $28,689
INTELLICHOICE Target Purchase Price     
$26,461     $23,084     $26,315     $25,143     $25,946     $23,017     $22,715
PURCHASE PRICE
Target purchase price includes destination and average applicable state taxes applied to a transaction price between invoice and retailbased on applicable incentives

Conclusion

The 7th-place finisher, the 2016 Nissan Sentra SL, suffered with the least powerful and least efficient engine, dreadful steering and seating, the highest forecasted cost of ownership, and the worst published IIHS crash scores despite being loaded with the most features. The 6th-place finisher (and best-selling in 2015) 2016 Toyota Corolla S Special Edition was called out for resting on its laurels and for having the oldest platform in the group, dating back to the year Barack Obama was 1st inaugurated. The whole car felt unduly coarse and unsophisticated and lacked features for the money. “This is the Special Edition?” Lieberman asked. “Does the regular Corolla require assembly?” Besides, the face-lifted 2017 Corolla recently made its debut, making this version a lame duck regardless, so no review is forthcoming.

As if that weren’t enough, the Toyota and the Nissan brought up the rear in our instrumented acceleration, braking, and handling tests. Good enough is not good enough for our recommendation any longer—especially because this slice of the American car-buying pie is poised to become the largest. Truth be told, deciding which compact sedan came in last place was a far more contentious debate than which 1 came in 1st. Be careful, Toyota. You’re following in the footsteps of GM, the once-dominant domestic giant who didn’t take your cars seriously but who just built a far superior compact than the Corolla by a mile. Ironic, isn’t it?

Finishing 5th with its refined and quick drivetrain, demure styling, and suboptimal platform, the Volkswagen Jetta is overdue for a complete makeover. “The Jetta suffers from VW’s unwillingness to give its small sedan the same love and care and attention to detail as it gave the Golf,” MacKenzie said. Had the Jetta ridden on VW’s MQB platform, Lieberman said, “it would have won the test.”

For evidence of just how quickly this segment is moving along, just look to the Mazda3, the winner in the 2014 Big Test. It feels less special now and offers middling performances in almost all of our 7 criteria.

3rd place goes to the premium presentation from Hyundai. Despite still having the industry’s best warranty, the Elantra’s value proposition has waned. “The visuals promise,” MacKenzie said, “but the mechanicals don’t quite deliver on that promise.”

2nd place goes to the surprising Chevrolet Cruze, the most improved player of the group. “It feels like an altogether more thorough effort than its predecessor,” Seabaugh said. It’s the recipient of a revamped look inside and out and has the peppiest drivetrain. Said Lieberman: “It’s nice to see an actual interior design in this segment. It’s not something you see.”

That leaves the gold medal for the Honda Civic. What more can be said about this remarkable car? Lacking luxury-oriented items like in the Chevy or Hyundai, it’s pretty evident where the development and packaging money went in this car: Efficiency, Safety, and Performance. Lieberman put to words what all the judges were feeling. “This is the 1st Civic in a long time that seems to have some of the old Honda magic back,” he said. “Honda magic is tricky to define, but to me it means that in a given competitive set [like this 1], the Honda product stands out. It drives better, it feels better, it’s engineered better, it’s got special sauce—the X factor—and this thing has it in spades.”

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2016 Chevrolet Cruze Premier     2016 Honda Civic EX     2017 Hyundai Elantra Limited     2016 Mazda Mazda3 (i Grand Touring)
POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT     Front
-engineFWD     Front-engineFWD     Front-engineFWD     Front-engineFWD
ENGINE TYPE     Turbocharged I
-4alum block/head     I-4alum block/head     Atkinson cycle I-4alum block/head     I-4alum block/head
VALVETRAIN     DOHC
4 valves/cyl     DOHC4 valves/cyl     DOHC4 valves/cyl     DOHC4 valves/cyl
DISPLACEMENT     85.3 cu in
/1,399 cc     121.8 cu in/1,996 cc     122.0 cu in/1,999 cc     121.9 cu in/1,998 cc
COMPRESSION RATIO     10.0
:1     10.8:1     12.5:1     13.0:1
POWER 
(SAE NET)     153 hp 5,600 rpm *     158 hp 6,500 rpm     147 hp 6,200 rpm     155 hp 6,000 rpm
TORQUE 
(SAE NET)     177 lb-ft 2,000 rpm *     138 lb-ft 4,200 rpm     132 lb-ft 4,500 rpm     150 lb-ft 4,000 rpm
REDLINE     6
,500 rpm     6,700 rpm     6,500 rpm     6,500 rpm
WEIGHT TO POWER     19.3 lb
/hp     17.7 lb/hp     20.0 lb/hp     18.9 lb/hp
TRANSMISSION     6
-speed automatic     Cont variable auto     6-speed automatic     6-speed automatic
AXLE
/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO     3.53:1/2.61:1     4.68:1/1.91:1     3.07:1/2.37:1     3.59:1/2.15:1
SUSPENSION
FRONTREAR     Strutscoil springsanti-roll bartorsion beamcoil springs     Strutscoil springsanti-roll barmultilinkcoil springsanti-roll bar     Strutscoil springsanti-roll bartorsion beamcoil springs     Strutscoil springsanti-roll barmulti-linkcoil springsanti-roll bar
STEERING RATIO     16.1
:1     10.9:1 – 14.1:1     13.9:1     14.1:1
TURNS LOCK
-TO-LOCK     2.8     2.3     2.7     2.6
BRAKES
FR     10.8-in vented disc10.4-in discABS     11.1-in vented disc10.2-in discABS     11.0-in vented disc10.3-in discABS     11.0-in vented disc10.4-in discABS
WHEELS     7.5 x 17 in
cast aluminum     7.0 x 16 incast aluminum     7.0 x 17 incast aluminum     6.5 x 16 incast aluminum
TIRES     225
/45R17 91H M+S Firestone Firehawk GTH     215/55R16 93H M+S Firestone FT140     225/45R17 (91WM+S Nexen Npriz AH8     205/60R16 91H M+S Yokohama AVID S34 BlueEarth
DIMENSIONS
WHEELBASE     106.3 in     106.3 in     106.3 in     106.3 in
TRACK
F/R     60.8/61.3 in     60.9/61.5 in     61.0/61.3 in     61.2/61.4 in
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT     183.7 x 70.6 x 57.4 in     182.3 x 70.8 x 55.7 in     179.9 x 70.9 x 56.5 in     180.3 x 70.7 x 57.3 in
TURNING CIRCLE     34.4 ft     35.7 ft     34.8 ft     37.1 ft
CURB WEIGHT     2
,952 lb     2,790 lb     2,945 lb     2,932 lb
WEIGHT DIST
F/R     61/39%     61/39%     61/39%     60/40%
SEATING CAPACITY     5     5     5     5
HEADROOM
F/R     38.9/37.3 in     37.5/36.8 in     38.3/37.3 in     37.6/37.5 in
LEGROOM
F/R     42.0/36.1 in     42.3/37.4 in     42.2/35.7 in     42.2/35.8 in
SHOULDER ROOM
F/R     54.8/53.7 in     56.9/55.0 in     56.2/55.3 in     57.2/54.4 in
CARGO VOLUME     13.9 cu ft     15.1 cu ft     14.4 cu ft     12.4 cu ft
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0
-30     2.8 sec     3.4 sec     3.1 sec     2.9 sec
0
-40     4.1     4.8     4.7     4.4
0
-50     6.1     6.5     6.5     6.3
0
-60     8.2     8.6     8.9     8.4
0
-70     10.6     11.1     11.8     11.1
0
-80     14.2     14.3     14.8     14.3
0
-90     –     18.2     19.0     18.0
PASSING
45-65 MPH     4.3     4.2     4.8     4.2
QUARTER MILE     16.3 sec 
85.5 mph     16.7 sec 86.1 mph     16.7 sec 85.0 mph     16.4 sec 85.7 mph
BRAKING
60-0 MPH     113 ft     127 ft     117 ft     126 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION     0.84 g 
(avg)     0.82 g (avg)     0.84 g (avg)     0.81 g (avg)
MT FIGURE 8 27.1 sec 0.65 g (avg)     27.6 sec 0.61 g (avg)     27.2 sec 0.63 g (avg)     27.3 sec 0.62 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS 60 MPH     1,900 rpm     1,600 rpm     2,000 rpm     1,800 rpm
CONSUMER INFO
BASE PRICE     
$23,995     $21,875     $23,185     $23,380
PRICE 
AS TESTED     $24,860     $22,875     $25,810     $24,800
STABILITY
/TRACTION CONTROL     Yes/Yes     Yes/Yes     Yes/Yes     Yes/Yes
AIRBAGS     Dual front
f/r sidef/r curtainfront knee     Dual frontfront sidef/r curtain     Dual frontfront sidef/r curtaindriver knee     Dual frontfront sidef/r curtain
BASIC WARRANTY     3 yrs
/36,000 miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles     5 yrs/60,000 miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles
POWERTRAIN WARRANTY     5 yrs
/60,000 miles     5 yrs/60,000 miles     10 yrs/100,000 miles     5 yrs/60,000 miles
ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE     5 yrs
/100,000 miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles     5 yrs/Unlimited miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles
FUEL CAPACITY     13.7 gal     12.4 gal     14.0 gal     13.2 gal
REAL MPG
CITY/HWY/COMB     28.0/38.3/31.9 mpg     29.6/42.8/34.4 mpg     27.4/40.9/32.2 mpg     28.1/38.4/32.0 mpg
EPA CITY
/HWY/COMB ECON     30/40/34 mpg     31/41/35 mpg     28/37/32 mpg     30/41/34 mpg
ENERGY CONS
CITY/HWY     112/84 kW-hrs/100 miles     109/82 kW-hrs/100 miles     120/91 kW-hrs/100 miles     112/82 kW-hrs/100 miles
CO2 EMISSIONS
COMB     0.57 lb/mile     0.56 lb/mile     0.62 lb/mile     0.57 lb/mile
RECOMMENDED FUEL     Unleaded regular     Unleaded regular     Unleaded regular     Unleaded regular
*SAE Certified
    2016 Nissan Sentra SL     2016 Toyota Corolla S Special Edition     2016 Volkswagen Jetta SE TSI 
(1.4T)
POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT     Front
-engineFWD     Front-engineFWD     Front-engineFWD
ENGINE TYPE     I
-4alum block/head     I-4alum block/head     Turbocharged I-4alum block/head
VALVETRAIN     DOHC
4 valves/cyl     DOHC4 valves/cyl     DOHC4 valves/cyl
DISPLACEMENT     109.7 cu in
/1,798 cc     109.7 cu in/1,798 cc     85.1 cu in/1,395 cc
COMPRESSION RATIO     9.9
:1     10.0:1     10.0:1
POWER 
(SAE NET)     130 hp 6,000 rpm     132 hp 6,000 rpm     150 hp 5,000 rpm
TORQUE 
(SAE NET)     128 lb-ft 3,600 rpm     128 lb-ft 4,400 rpm     184 lb-ft 1,400 rpm
REDLINE     6
,400 rpm     6,500 rpm     6,800 rpm
WEIGHT TO POWER     22.5 lb
/hp     21.9 lb/hp     20.4 lb/hp
TRANSMISSION     Cont variable auto     Cont variable auto     6
-speed automatic
AXLE
/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO     3.52:1/1.93:1     4.76:1/1.89:1     3.23:1/2.16:1
SUSPENSION
FRONTREAR     Strutscoil springsanti-roll bartorsion beamcoil springs     Strutscoil springsanti-roll bartorsion beamcoil springs     Strutscoil springsanti-roll barmultilinkcoil springsanti-roll bar
STEERING RATIO     16.3
:1     17.8:1     16.4:1
TURNS LOCK
-TO-LOCK     3.0     3.2     2.8
BRAKES
FR     11.0-in vented disc11.5-in discABS     10.8-in vented disc10.2-in discABS     11.3-in vented disc10.0-in discABS
WHEELS     6.5 x 17 in
cast aluminum     7.0 x 17 in cast aluminum     6.5 x 16 in cast aluminum
TIRES     205
/50R17 89Y M+S Continental ContiProContact     215/45R17 87W M+S Firestone FR740     205/55R16 91H M+S Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 Plus
DIMENSIONS
WHEELBASE     106.3 in     106.3 in     104.4 in
TRACK
F/R     60.2/60.2 in     59.8/59.9 in     60.4/60.3 in
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT     182.1 x 69.3 x 58.9 in     183.1 x 69.9 x 57.3 in     183.3 x 70.0 x 57.2 in
TURNING CIRCLE     34.8 ft     35.6 ft     36.4 ft
CURB WEIGHT     2
,927 lb     2,896 lb     3,058 lb
WEIGHT DIST
F/R     60/40%     61/39%     59/41%
SEATING CAPACITY     5     5     5
HEADROOM
F/R     39.4/36.7 in     38.0/37.1 in     38.2/37.1 in
LEGROOM
F/R     42.5/37.4 in     42.3/41.4 in     41.2/38.1 in
SHOULDER ROOM
F/R     54.7/53.9 in     54.8/54.8 in     55.2/53.6 in
CARGO VOLUME     15.1 cu ft     13.0 cu ft     15.7 cu ft
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0
-30     3.5 sec     3.7 sec     2.7 sec
0
-40     5.1     5.4     4.2
0
-50     7.3     7.3     6.0
0
-60     10.0     9.8     8.4
0
-70     13.4     12.9     11.0
0
-80     17.8     16.8     14.0
0
-90     —     —     17.8
PASSING
45-65 MPH     5.4     5.0     4.6
QUARTER MILE     17.6 sec 
79.5 mph     17.5 sec 81.4 mph     16.3 sec 86.2 mph
BRAKING
60-0 MPH     128 ft     131 ft     123 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION     0.82 g 
(avg)     0.81 g (avg)     0.81 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT     28.2 sec 0.58 g (avg)     28.3 sec 0.57 g (avg)     27.3 sec 0.63 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS 60 MPH     1,750 rpm     1,700 rpm     1,800 rpm
CONSUMER INFO
BASE PRICE     
$23,005     $21,470     $20,915
PRICE 
AS TESTED     $25,545     $23,520     $23,145
STABILITY
/TRACTION CONTROL     Yes/Yes     Yes/Yes     Yes/Yes
AIRBAGS     Dual front
front sidef/r curtain     Dual frontfront sidef/r curtaindriver knee     Dual frontfront sidef/r curtain
BASIC WARRANTY     3 yrs
/36,000 miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles
POWERTRAIN WARRANTY     5 yrs
/60,000 miles     5 yrs/60,000 miles     5 yrs/60,000 miles
ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE     3 yrs
/36,000 miles     2 yrs/unlimited miles     3 yrs/36,000 miles
FUEL CAPACITY     13.2 gal     13.2 gal     14.5 gal
REAL MPG
CITY/HWY/COMB     24.5/37.1/28.9 mpg     27.8/40.2/32.3 mpg     23.4/41.5/29.1 mpg
EPA CITY
/HWY/COMB ECON     29/38/32 mpg     29/38/32 mpg     28/39/32 mpg
ENERGY CONS
CITY/HWY     116/89 kW-hrs/100 miles     116/89 kW-hrs/100 miles     120/86 kW-hrs/100 miles
CO2 EMISSIONS
COMB     0.60 lb/mile     0.60 lb/mile     0.60 lb/mile
RECOMMENDED FUEL     Unleaded regular     Unleaded regular     Unleaded regular
*SAE Certified 

Old 07-17-2016, 04:45 PM
  #4390  
MSZ
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10th Gen Type-R spied on Nur:

Old 07-17-2016, 05:55 PM
  #4391  
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A sedan Type R... Interesting. I wonder what market it is for. I didn't think we would ever have a sedan version in NA.


I keep thinking I'm looking at the next generation STi, or something
Old 07-18-2016, 08:26 AM
  #4392  
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
A sedan Type R... Interesting. I wonder what market it is for. I didn't think we would ever have a sedan version in NA.


I keep thinking I'm looking at the next generation STi, or something
Tough to tell without the camo, but I'd probably take the sedan over the hatch in this case.
Old 07-18-2016, 12:52 PM
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I don't know if that's a sedan or a hatch. Look at how the rear window extends all the way to the Honda logo in the picture below, just like in the video.



Old 07-19-2016, 12:48 PM
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Great, even better. The new Type R is a station wagon
Old 07-19-2016, 03:07 PM
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Got the chance to ride in a new Civic LX via Lyft. It was nicely appointed considered it's essentially a base model (?) and spacious, and fairly isolated inside in terms of NVH.
Old 07-19-2016, 03:28 PM
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I believe the current generation of civic was the first time the car made it into the "mid size" category.

That's kind of sad, really. Quit getting so damn fat, everyone!!
Old 07-19-2016, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
I believe the current generation of civic was the first time the car made it into the "mid size" category.

That's kind of sad, really. Quit getting so damn fat, everyone!!
Well with the popularity of hatchbacks in the North American mainstream market, compact/midsize cars have been growing to make room for downmarket models... Fit, Yaris, Mazda 3, Golf, Focus, etc. have caused the Civic, Accord, Corolla, Civic, so on to grow.
Old 07-19-2016, 04:14 PM
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Mazda 3, Golf and Focus are considered direct competitors to the Civic. Same with the Corolla. Always have been. Always will be.

Fit and Yaris are smaller, and in their own category. I'd throw in the Mazda 2 in there. Same with Toyota's IM, or whatever it is called now.

However, that doesn't make sense as to why the civic has bloated from sub-compact, to compact, to mid size.

What you said literally makes no sense
Old 07-19-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
Mazda 3, Golf and Focus are considered direct competitors to the Civic. Same with the Corolla. Always have been. Always will be.

Fit and Yaris are smaller, and in their own category. I'd throw in the Mazda 2 in there. Same with Toyota's IM, or whatever it is called now.

However, that doesn't make sense as to why the civic has bloated from sub-compact, to compact, to mid size.

What you said literally makes no sense
Yeah, bad set of examples I think I was in dire need of lunch.

Civic, Corolla, Mazda 3, Focus, all were once considered compact or even subcompact. Now approaching midsize, or already there. This left a void in the lineup, considering most of these brands had entry-level cars.
^Fit, Yaris, Mazda 2, Fiesta (for comparison)

This is nothing new - look back to the '80s. The Accord of the '80s was much smaller than even the 1st gen Fit. Cars continue to grow because if they stay too similar, my guess is they won't sell as well.

I forgot about the Mazda 2, then again we don't have the newest model of it here in the US. The iM is basically Corolla sized, as having that in addition to the Yaris would be redundant.
Old 07-20-2016, 08:49 AM
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Cars have also grown due to new safety standards.


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