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If you're getting under steer in the CTR, you aren't driving it right. It's not meant to ever lose traction, like a RWD car can. The CTR is built to haul ass through a race track and does exactly that, with numbers to back it...
Lots and lots and lots and lots of engineering's clearly gone into the new CTR's front end. Pretty amazing.
"Further proving that this Civic is special are model-exclusive spring, damper and bushing settings, with an upgraded front front suspension that includes aluminum lower arms and steering knuckles. Honda says this reduces dreaded toque steer while enhancing cornering on the bleeding edge of what’s stable. There is also a new four-wheel adaptive suspension system, limited-slip differential, and dual-pinion electric steering offering variable ratios."
Yeah, it's pretty crazy/cool. I just meant if someone is getting under steer, they're probably driving the car wrong... Sucks it's still FWD, but honestly, I could easily live with it. I'm able to mash my TL through corners pretty well these days, but it's after years and years of driving FWD Hondas. I don't have anywhere near the balls to push my RWD cars that hard. I don't know if I'll even get to that limit, ever, to be honest. I'm always scared the ass end will come out on me
Very cool that you got some seat-time in the new CTR.
It's an interesting engineering decision for Honda/Acura to stick with FWD while the competition goes AWD. I certainly look forward to comparo-reviews of the various hot-hatch platforms once the CTR reaches these shores. (Of course, many folks have been hankering for Acura to make a RWD car for quite some time now...) I was recently test driving a Scion FR-S and really miss the RWD dynamics. Finances and practicality moved me towards the more sober decision of buying my new (to me) 3G TL as a DD. The last RWD I had as a DD was my first car, a 1978 Pontiac Firebird, which I loved.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy/cool. I just meant if someone is getting under steer, they're probably driving the car wrong... Sucks it's still FWD, but honestly, I could easily live with it. I'm able to mash my TL through corners pretty well these days, but it's after years and years of driving FWD Hondas. I don't have anywhere near the balls to push my RWD cars that hard. I don't know if I'll even get to that limit, ever, to be honest. I'm always scared the ass end will come out on me
Haha, I'm pretty sure if Honda wanted to, they can make the Civic oversteer too. My Civic EK hatch would do that (spun 360 a couple times on track day lol).
Originally Posted by nanxun
shod with 245/30R20 Contis on each corner.... craaaaay-zee.
I wish Honda would offer something even sticker - like Michelin Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli Trofeo R as optional tires. The Focus RS uses the former tires to generate some big numbers, even though the wear rate sucks.
Haha, I'm pretty sure if Honda wanted to, they can make the Civic oversteer too. My Civic EK hatch would do that (spun 360 a couple times on track day lol).
I wish Honda would offer something even sticker - like Michelin Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli Trofeo R as optional tires. The Focus RS uses the former tires to generate some big numbers, even though the wear rate sucks.
I dont think spinning out and oversteer are the same thing LOL
To be honest, it was the first track day for the Civic, so the settings were probably not right. The front end had more grip then the back, that's why it would oversteer. I totally didn't expect that and didn't catch it fast enough and thus I spun out....
Haha, I'm pretty sure if Honda wanted to, they can make the Civic oversteer too. My Civic EK hatch would do that (spun 360 a couple times on track day lol).
I wish Honda would offer something even sticker - like Michelin Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli Trofeo R as optional tires. The Focus RS uses the former tires to generate some big numbers, even though the wear rate sucks.
It would be extremely easy for them to set the car up to do that. The Honda lawyers on the other hand dont want that. I have my TL setup (not nearly as easy now that its running 275s) where slight oversteer happens and is something i can adjust with just a few PSI of air change in the tires.
Agreed, it would be nice if they offered it with the Sport Cups or something really sticky from the factory.
I wish Honda would offer something even sticker - like Michelin Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli Trofeo R as optional tires. The Focus RS uses the former tires to generate some big numbers, even though the wear rate sucks.
Personally, I'm okay with it- it allows you to learn the car at lower speeds, before going bananas. You gotta crawl before you can ball! Personally, I would never buy Michelins or Pirellis for hard driving either- while Michelin does make some good tires, you can get equally good (or better) tires, for less money. Pirellis.. bleh.
I'd personally learn the car on the junk tires first, and then likely pull them off by the end of the summer and sell them. Take that money and put them towards tires I actually want and have fresh rubber for the next year of summer driving.
And we've seen how the BRZ and FRS are equipped with Prius tires but are fun to drive.
I didn't meant to say that Honda should offer these semi-slick tires as standard tires. My point is that, if Honda is chasing the Nurburgring lap record, the easiest way is to offer these track tires as an option.
On the other hand, if the CTR can still set a record with its standard tires, that would be pretty darn amazing.
The only concern is that it uses the 1.5T engine instead of the 2.0T from the CTR. The likes of Focus ST, WRX, and GTI are all using 2.0T. The 1.5T Civic Si might be competitive stock vs stock as it's most likely going to be quite a bit lighter, but if aftermarket tuning potential is a consideration, I don't think the 1.5T can compete.
With that said, the Si looks much more subtle than the Type R, and large enough brakes, optional summer tires, adaptive suspension, and LSD. I'm eager to see how it does on a track. Not sure if you guys read it yet, but the Civic Sport Hatch just won a comparo in C/D against Golf SE and Mazda 3: 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback vs. Chevy Cruze, Mazda 3, VW Golf | Comparison Test | Car and Driver
Unlike previous gens when there was no Sport trim for the regular Civic, depends on the price, it would be more challenging to go with the Si when Civic Hatch Sport offers almost just as much...
I can't even tell any difference between the SI and the Sport as far as exterior goes.
Yes, but Honda doesn't sell a car with the intention of aftermarket performance. All they care about is stock for stock performance.
True, but Honda gotta know most people who buy SI's are car enthusiasts. And some of them probably do care about after market performance. That's where most of the Honda fans are from anyway - tuning the B series, K series, the Type R's, Si's Type S, GS-R, etc.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Unlike previous gens when there was no Sport trim for the regular Civic, depends on the price, it would be more challenging to go with the Si when Civic Hatch Sport offers almost just as much...
I can't even tell any difference between the SI and the Sport as far as exterior goes.
I think if someone wants a coupe, they wouldn't bother with a sedan/hatch, and if they want a hatch, they wouldn't care about a coupe.
Sceptics of Nürburgring lap times, avert your eyes: another record has tumbled. With much fanfare – though arguably little surprise – the Honda Civic Type R is the fastest front-wheel-drive car around the Nordschleife.
By being crowned as such, it continues what’s become a fiercely fought and frequently changing battle for hot hatchback supremacy. Ever since the Leon Cupra took FWD below the eight minute mark, Seat, Volkswagen, Renault and Honda have been transferring the trophy between each other’s mantelpieces seemingly every few months.
With a 7 minute 43.8 second lap time, the new 316bhp Civic Type R has taken over three seconds out of the outgoing champion, the VW Golf GTI Clubsport S.
Honda snaffled the record on April 3, as part of the latest Type R’s development programme. As well as taking several seconds out of its rival, the new fast Civic also lapped the Nordschleife almost seven seconds quicker than the previous Civic Type R. While the new Civic is a mere 10bhp up on before, its wider track and more hardcore chassis have seriously upped its cornering speeds, according to Honda.
You may recall the controversy surrounding its forebear’s record, which saw a Civic stripped of its back seats and officially wearing prototype status take the ‘Ring record at the time. Well, don’t think things are any simpler here.
“The development car that achieved the lap time was technically representative of production specification,” says Honda. “A full floating roll cage was installed for safety reasons, but its presence did not provide any additional rigidity to the body frame.
“The extra weight of the cage was compensated for by the temporary removal of the infotainment system and rear seats. The car was using road legal track-focused tyres.”
So, the back seats have once again been swapped for a roll cage, boosting safety but – apparently – providing no weight or strength benefits. Such nuances arguably have nothing on the effects of different drivers, temperatures and weather conditions, mind. Perhaps a properly organised shootout is what we really need…
Do you agree? Or are you delighted for Honda, and popping the kettle on for a congratulatory brew as we speak?
Even thought everything might be functional, it's just too much. I could never pull up to work in something like this and not endure being laughed at for the rest of my career. By the end of the day, the average person doesn't care how functional everything is... it still looks ridiculous.
1. No, it does not resemble a factory whatsoever. They sell the CTR as a track focused car, yet have to modify it for the track? C'mon. You know they did it just to grab some sort of title.
2. If I'm paying that much for a Civic, I care more about smiles per mile, as opposed to lap times around a track I will never take the car on anyway.
Not saying your ST isn't reliable, or hasn't been reliable... But ford's overall reliability is still shit, even if Honda's has dropped over the years.
thats about it, really. The power increase the RS has over the CTR = meh. It has higher drivetrain losses, so overall, they're likely putting down the same power. Drift mode is pretty gangster though. It is sooooo easy to drift an AWD car. That, and the RS doesn't look like it just stepped out of a Pep Boys sale.
If I was in the market, I would strongly look at all options in that segment. CTR, RS, Golf R, STi... The paper specs really don't interest me all that much... I mean, they're all pretty awesome and overall pretty similar. It's how it feels to drive is what would be my number one concern. Followed by ownership costs.
There are only a few things they needed to win me over. If the interior were less gaudy (this, coming from a guy who was okay with a 4th gen F-Body interior), ditched those tacky black plastic chingaderas underneath the tail lights, and did the Type-R treatment to the sedan, I would have been all about it. FWD wasn't the dealbreaker, it was the strange hatch shape that did it for me.
Not saying your ST isn't reliable, or hasn't been reliable... But ford's overall reliability is still shit, even if Honda's has dropped over the years.
thats about it, really. The power increase the RS has over the CTR = meh. It has higher drivetrain losses, so overall, they're likely putting down the same power. Drift mode is pretty gangster though. It is sooooo easy to drift an AWD car. That, and the RS doesn't look like it just stepped out of a Pep Boys sale.
If I was in the market, I would strongly look at all options in that segment. CTR, RS, Golf R, STi... The paper specs really don't interest me all that much... I mean, they're all pretty awesome and overall pretty similar. It's how it feels to drive is what would be my number one concern. Followed by ownership costs.
I agree 100% with this. I would go and physically test all the AWD compact sportcar/hatch options before making a choice. No amount of paper specs will do any shit for me. For example as per car and driver my 2007 MDX had lateral G's on the skid pad of I think 0.85 while my Sorento is rated at 0.74 but when it comes to handling, despite the lack of SH-AWD (normal AWD on the Sorento) and despite "official specs" the Sorento can still handle as well as the MDX and even a little better due to the 500 pound weight advantage. Numbers don't mean shit. Go test drive your options and see how the feel. Hell sometimes a car is a a WHOPPING 3 SECONDS FASTER ON THE NURBURGRING but the seats feel like shit and hurt me in places seats have never hurt before so I don't care about a 3 second or even 20 second advantage on the Nurburgring if it ergonomically just doesn't fit me.
I love the car. If it's in the same price range with STi Limited and FoRS and Golf R.
I would choose this car over all those choices for sure.
I track my car and will always track. From personal experience from my track group, Focus RS overheat after a couple hard laps especially in the rear diff which makes it a FWD drive only car. So don't think calling a CTR a Fail Wheel Drive would be a bit oxymoron.
03-10-2017, 04:17 PM
Finances and practicality moved me towards the more sober decision of buying my new (to me) 3G TL as a DD. The last RWD I had as a DD was my first car, a 1978 Pontiac Firebird, which I loved.
