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I saw my first CTR in the wild yesterday. I was on a two-lane road and it was coming toward me and I knew right away it was a CTR as I saw the red Honda badge coming at me (black exterior). Didn't see it more than a few seconds and then it passed by, but from what I could tell it looked pretty nice really. Definitely sporty. Didn't hear any exhaust note though (~45MPH, windows down). Was nice to finally see one.
I am no expert at reading dyno graphics but is small displacement with big turbo the reason why the peak torque is at ~6.2k rpm? Seems pretty linear from 4.5k+
I am no expert at reading dyno graphics but is small displacement with big turbo the reason why the peak torque is at ~6.2k rpm? Seems pretty linear from 4.5k+
I am no expert either, but horsepower is a calculation based off of torque. No matter what engine it is, if there's both HP and lb/ft on the chart, both figures will intersect at 5250 if it revs high enough. And torque will only decrease from 5250 rpm and on.
My way of reading a dyno from a glance is that after 5250 RPM, torque will be lower than horsepower. So, peak torque (red curve) looks like its around 4600-4700.
also, that torque dip from ~3500-4000rpm seems odd. I wonder if some mods could help correct that.
the dip is present in the TL as well at 3500-4000 RPM.
it's the intake manifold butterfly opening or closing....(which ever one is optimized for high RPM's...means OPEN, i think)
Iforyou, what did you pay for your CTR? Were you able to get it at MSRP? If not, how much above?
also, that torque dip from ~3500-4000rpm seems odd. I wonder if some mods could help correct that.
Also... what the hell is going on with the torque? It varies by almost 50lbft between both graphs. Uh...
I've noticed this torque dip at 3500rpm in a few different CTR dynos, I'm not sure why that's the case. I think Hondata and VitTuned are working on ECU mods now.
The lower torque one was done with 3rd gear, and the higher torque one was done with 4th gear.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
I hope he didnt trade in his s2k for 1
Originally Posted by RPhilMan1
Share the details on the purchase, iforyou!!!
I live in Canada so I didn't have to deal with any markup crap. It's illegal here. With that said, I heard that one of the dealers here in Vancouver does charge a mark up. Some dealers do put in a bunch of accessories and charge more that way though.
I just paid MSRP which is about CAD$41k + destination/PDI + doc fee + other govt fees + taxes. Pretty standard stuff. It's actually slightly cheaper here in Canada if you calculate the exchange rate - and we also get a few more features than you guys, such as lane watch, side mirror turn signals, and wireless phone charging.
Best of all, we also get the VTEC TURBO decal which obviously adds 50hp conservatively.
Back in mid June, I asked may be 5 different dealers and all of them had a waiting list with 3-8 people. With most dealers getting just 1 car each for this month, the 2nd car in September, and the 3rd on in December. I was basically told that I would have to wait til 2018 or even 2019 before I could get one.
I already knew that I was kinda late for putting a deposit in. So I contacted the farthest dealership in the Fraser Valley, which is about 100km away (which is not bad at all lol), put a deposit in, and I was the 2nd in line. I was really lucky as my timing of calling this dealership was perfect. Called a little earlier, and they weren't even taking a deposit. And a few days I put my deposit in, they already had quite a few people asking them about putting them on the waiting list.
And for whatever reason, I was told I'd get my car in September since I'm the second person in line. But about a week ago, my sales rep told me that another CTR was coming early this week, so, ya, it's all worked out perfectly for me! And it's also in the exact color what I wanted.
Being dropped off. VTEC Turbo Decal for 50hp My CTR with my buddy's 335i #2033Don't worry guys, still have the S2k!
the dip is present in the TL as well at 3500-4000 RPM.
it's the intake manifold butterfly opening or closing....(which ever one is optimized for high RPM's...means OPEN, i think)
it MIGHT be that simple.. but you're comparing two completely different scenarios and equating them. The CTR doesn't have VTEC, and is also based on FI, vs the TL being NA. What's more, is the second run doesn't show the same dip the first one does. The lower curve doesn't have the torque dip.
Thanks guys! It's my first ever Type R so yea I'm pretty damn excited still! Also since I just picked it up less than 48 hours ago, I have only put around 200km on it and it's still in the break-in period. I can only give you guys some of my initial thoughts as an average Joe.
Even though I haven't revved past 4.5k rpm, I could easily tell there's way more torque than my S2000 with a few bolt on's. As an example, last night, I was in 5th gear at 2500rpm going up a hill at about 45mph. I then gave it a bit of gas, and it would speed up rather quickly. I'd be struggling to maintain that speed on that same hill in my S2000 in 5th gear at 3000rpm, let alone pulling hard.
There's definitely onset boost delay, it's better though with +R mode. The throttle sensitively is definitely not like a S2000. But when the boost is on, boy this thing moves.
The shifter is typical Honda high quality. The feel is really good with clearly defined gates. I would say it's on par with the shifter in the S2000. The clutch is on the light side but that's probably because I have an ACT clutch in my S2k, which is heavier than a stock S2k clutch. It's very easy to shift gears and the process is very enjoyable.
Obviously when you accelerate, some time later, you gotta slow down. I haven't done any hard braking yet, but the initial bite is good and linear. These brakes give me the feeling that they are powerful, but easy to modulate. In other words, I feel really comfortable driving fast and knowing that these brakes will slow down the car very quickly, while being really easy to drive smoothly with them.
The rev match system is on by default. This feature works really well based on my limited driving time. I do heel and toe in my EK and S2K, but I'm far from the best at this. Sometimes I'd do it perfectly, sometimes I don't. The rev match system makes me look like a pro at heel and toe. And the system executes it pretty damn perfectly. The only downside is that it doesn't auto blip when the engine rpm is under 2000rpm. It also doesn't work when you go from 2nd to 1st gear. Minor complaints as on a track, I doubt that I'd be below 2000rpm. I also doubt that 1st gear is needed.
I haven't been on the track yet obviously with this, but I took a few turns faster than usual just to see what's like and the car felt really solid and direct. I think the steering ratio is quick and in a good way. The steering wheel rim is thick. The steering weight is just the perfect amount. There's some decent feedback from the steering. The chassis feels very responsive and stiff.
This brings me to the ride quality - which is really really comfortable for a car with this kind of performance potential. The suspension on this car is supposed to be twice as stiff as a regular Civic, it certainly didn't feel that way. In reality, the ride is quite smooth in both Comfort mode and Sport mode. In +R mode, you can definitely feel the ride becomes more bumpy, but still it's not bad at all. If I were to make a comparison, I'd say it's more comfortable than my 1g RDX.
The front seats are AWESOME. My EK that I share with my buddy has a dedicated bucket seat. It's a bit too big for him, but a bit too small for him (I'm 190lb, he's 140lb, with him being slightly taller). For the FK8? It fits me perfectly, and it also fits him perfectly. I don't know how Honda did this, but these front seats can hold a wide range of people comfortably. The bolsters are the perfect size, the back support feels good, these seats are just so nice to sit in.
In terms of NVH, again, it's amazingly good. It has less road noise than my RDX by quite a bit. I'd even say it's on par with my buddy's F30 335i as shown in the picture above. I can understand why people think it's too quiet for a Type R. This is definitely very different than a DC2, EK9, DC5, FD2 Type R.
Put it this way, if you have kids and you want a car that has good performance, good ride comfort, decent cargo room, at USD$35k, you should put the FK8 CTR in your shopping list.
Talking about cargo space, based on my observations, I'd say it's comparable to my RDX. Looking at the stats, it's 25cu.ft vs 27cu.ft.
In terms of creative comfort, the Type R is very well equipped: Dual zone A/C, 540-watt sound system, navi, android auto/apple carplay, LED headlights and fog lights, keyless entry....and the list goes on and on. The sound system is actually pretty good with a good balance of bass and clarity. The infotainment system is responsive and easy to use. My car doesn't have the volume knob but it doesn't bother me (yet) as I'm used to using the steering volume control anyway since that's what my RDX has. I can see adjusting the AC is annoying but I haven't changed the settings much yet.
I will find out more about the car as I put more mileage on it. But gotta say, the reviews out there are pretty much bang on. It's a fast car, it's a fun to drive car, it's a practical car, and it's very comfortable. All of that for a very reasonable price of USD$34k. It's too bad about the mark up for most of you guys. And I also get that the styling isn't for everyone. But if you don't mind the styling, and is looking for a track car that can also be a DD for ~$35k, this is it!
By the way, what you were talking about in terms of heel-toe, isn't actually heel-toe. It's rev matching and much simpler as compared to heel-toe.
My 370z does the Rev matching also. I generally don't use it as I find I'm still trying to rev match even though the car is doing it also. I find it hard to disconnect my brain from it afyer doing it so much. Im not perfect either with it, but seem to manage to hit right 7 out of 10 shifts. The remaining 3 are a bit sloppier.
That being said, mine works in all gears and works below 2000rpm, though it really isn't necessary. At that engine speed, you can just release the clutch pedal gently and it will catch smoothly. I can understand why honda didn't have it work that low. As for going into first, we'll, you shouldn't do that at speed anyway, so again, kind of unnecessary.
Heel toe is the same as rev matching, but you throw in the brake pedal modulation also... but to be honest, it serves zero function on the street. I find that rev matching is more than adequate and the only reason you would be adding the brake pedal in is when you're seriously hauling ass. On the track? Definitely required if you want to be fast.
I used to do my heel and toe when i was existing a curved off ramp. When you messed up. it is a scary feeling as you know you are either going into a corner way too fast or not in the right gear. But when done right, it is a seamless transition with perfect speed and the right gear and the sound too.
ahh i miss 6mt...
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-20-2017 at 06:51 PM.
Yes i know. heel and toe before the corner,,, but if you mess up the heal and toe then you will be going to the corner hot! It s either you can't get into the right gear in time or you did not slow down enough.
That is the spirit driving mode... the day to day stuff. you can just rev match to 5 and 4th and brake like an automatic.
I heard Cobb won't be releasing anything for the CTR. If Hondata comes out with a flashpro for the CTR, I'm pretty sure I will get it. That's what owning a turbo car is all about after all!
Yea I do my own rev matching in the EK and S2K, and heel & toe when I'm using the brake while shifting down. Regular rev matching is easy enough, just that when the brake is involved, it's a little bit more tricky and harder to get it right all the time. It's nice to hear the engine sound though when it's executed perfectly! This is especially true with a performance Honda engine. Damn they all sound good!
I had a quick wash yesterday as after my drive from the dealership, my front bumper was filled with dead bugs. And ya, that spoiler makes the car quite high school looking...lol. And it's a bit difficult to wash too with more creases and stuff.
Back to the car, I find that the A/C is actually very easy to use and doesn't require the touchscreen for basic climate control operation. There's an on/off button, there's a sync button for the dual zone feature, and there are two knobs for controlling the temperature. If you prefer adjusting the fan speed manually, then I think that's the more difficult part as you need to use the touch screen for that. For me, I prefer using the automatic climate control, so this isn't an issue for me.
I took the highway this morning to work, and it's really smooth and fairly quiet for a car in this class. At 100km/h (62mph), the engine rpm is at 2500rpm in 6th gear. This makes cruising on the highway pretty comfortable.
I forgot to mention yesterday, but during my test drive, I accidentally took the car to 150km/h (93mph) with four people in the car without actually realizing it. I was just going through the gears and accelerating. Then a quick glance at the speedometer and I was like wtf. It felt like I was doing 60mph at that speed.
I'm probably too used to driving old and/or loud cars. As the CTR is way quieter, smoother, more stable, and more powerful, it's really easy to be speeding by a lot without realizing, especially when there's no traffic.
Oh ya, and probably gonna get some 19" rims instead of 20". 20" rubber ain't cheap, and I can save a few pounds per corner. Stock rim is like 28-30lb each.......
Even 19s aren't all that common. To keep it cheap, it might be worth finding some forged Nissan/infinity wheels. You can keep the square setup by getting two sets of fronts, or two sets of rears.
I also wonder if 18s would work and if they could clear the brakes. Hey, they might look funny, but they're for track duty only and they'd definitely shed a lot of weight.
Thanks for the write up! I think white is one of the best colors for the CTR. Congratulations!
Once break-in period has passed, let me know what you think about torque steer, FWD characteristics and feel, acceleration, etc. Being a turbo-4 FWD owner I am curious what you think of the CTR in that regard and how well it puts the power down.
Good to have numbers generated in the same test with the same set of drivers on the same day at the same location. More comparable that way.
The rolling start figures show why Subaru needs to update that STi engine in the near future. On paper it's still strong, but it's got 500cc on the CTR and runs around 15psi (vs 23psi in the CTR) or so it still has way more turbo lag.
07-14-2017, 12:48 PM
