EmuMessenger

If that Accord had some xenon lights like the Prius, I might get in line!

Tracer

Accord is a pretty nice car in it's V6-EX shape.. but i'd still take a TL over it any day.

Tracer

JeffS

The Hybrid is to be the top of the line Accord, but it has no moonroof. I assume it is a cost issue and trying to keep the non-nav model under $30k, but that stinks.

biker

All of this hype over an issue that has been solved for over 20 years in Europe. You want good gas milage - get a diesel. I'm sure Honda could make a 3.0L diesel that has the same milage and perhaps about the same performance as this hybrid thing (a similar sized BMW530D gets 40MPG). And the bonus is that there would be no weight/cost/trunk space penalty with the diesel.
Hybrid thank the tree huggers

Rio

Just a couple of pics that i found, for those that are intrested. Not bad in my opinion.

jwaters943

While I think that Diesel technology will continue to improve, it still can't touch the low emissions of a Hybrid car. Diesels get great MPG, but as they exist today, they emit many harmful and visible pollutants. You can call it "tree hugging", but I don't care to see smog every time I look at the horizon.

TheOne305

Well i think its cool because i never seen a I-VTEC V6 engine before.Wish the TL had one for i notice I-VTEC get more TQ earlier in the RPM'S.The shifter looks so cheesy.should of made it more stylish not a cheap model look.

TorontoTL

I think the Hybrid Accord and the TL are still two very different cars. I think the TL is still a much sportier car in that the handling will still be better. It also has a more luxurious feel to the interior as well. However, if one doesn't place as much importance on either of those traits, then the hybrid Accord is a very tempting car. I don't think it is that ugly at all, I think the small lip they added to the trunk edge improves the back end. The power and the fuel efficiency are incredible and must be considered as well.

Belzebutt

A couple of months I would have agreed with you, but our beloved Car & Driver did a rigorous fuel economy comparison of the Prius, Civic Hybrid and Golf TDI, and the Prius beats the crap out of the VW in fuel economy for the same price, especially in city driving. And the TDI doesn't even come close in emissions. The Civic was quite a bit better than the TDI as well.

pettydw

You won't get the advertised mileage if you use more than 10% of available power. That orange cable has more than enough juice to kill someone, so do not think about hot-rodding it yourself unless you are an expert electrician, and its still ugly.

Brokedoc

I highly doubt the TL will become hybrid unless they make it AWD.

The Honda IMA system has the electric motor supplement the engine's HP and torque through the existing driveline. Our TLs are FWD and already have 270 HP pumped to them. Unless the TL became SH-AWD (likely) or RWD (unlikely), drivers really wouldn't be able to take advantage of the extra power. MPG would improve though...

OTOH, Toyota's SynergyDrive system has the electric motors attached directly to the rear wheels of a traditionally FWD drivetrain. Front wheels get engine power, and each rear wheel gets an electric motor. Result: AWD with the potential ability to vary the amount of power that the R rear and L rear wheels get (a-la SH-AWD)

iNteGraz92

honda HAS a diesel. the 2.2 ctdi in the euro accord. the reason honda doesn't make diesels for north america is cuz our diesel sucks compared to euro diesel or something.

einsatz

255hp/232ft/lbs is only 5hp off from the TL-S and the CL-S... Honda better be thinking about pushing the TL up to 280hp and if they're making a CL replacement, at least 280, too.
Either that, or keep the US Accord looking like shit so people get the Acuras instead.

Professor Gascan

The Honda diesel has been said to be one of the best by everybody who tests it in Europe. Keep in mind that these are people who have access to all the killer diesel engines out there as well.

As for bringing it here, I know people who have tried to persuade Honda Canada with little result. The point is moot for the moment anyway, as until NA diesel become ultra low sulfur like Europe, diesel from there made for it will never run properly or be as clean.

rets

Move to Auto News.

Nodoze2004

all I can say is YAAAAWN. This design puts me to sleep. How about those SAAB style taillights....one word ABYSMAL!!

Whomever designed this needs to brush up the resume as it is horrid!

biker

Did anyone see Motorweek? In it they mentioned that Honda is looking at the possibility of putting the 2.2 diesel in the USDM Accord in MY2007 when diesel will be low sulfur in the US and probably at the time the Accord will get a much needed redesign. The 30/37 milage figures are not that great in the big scheme of things. The regular 4 cyl Accord is close to those figures.
"
A couple of months I would have agreed with you, but our beloved Car & Driver did a rigorous fuel economy comparison of the Prius, Civic Hybrid and Golf TDI, and the Prius beats the crap out of the VW in fuel economy for the same price, especially in city driving. And the TDI doesn't even come close in emissions. The Civic was quite a bit better than the TDI as well."

I was talking about comparing a diesel to the milage figures of this Accord hybrid. And of course the hybrids will have the leg up in city driving - that's what they're designed for - different story on the highway.

iNteGraz92

close figures, but the v6 has a lot more power

goldmemberer

Pasted from ToV (VTEC.net)

2005 Accord Hybrid Delivers V-6 Performance with Four-cylinder Fuel Efficiency

World's First V-6 Hybrid Boasts 255 Horsepower and 30 city/37 highway EPA fuel economy

Torrance, Calif. 09/17/2004 --

American Honda will debut the all-new Accord Hybrid, the world's first V-6-powered hybrid vehicle and Honda's third hybrid model, at dealerships nationwide on December 3, 2004. The all-new Accord Hybrid utilizes the third-generation of Honda's advanced Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) full hybrid system in combination with new Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) cylinder deactivation technology to deliver the world's best V-6 fuel efficiency - on par with a 4-cylinder, compact class Civic - along with highly responsive and powerful V-6 performance. With the introduction of the Accord Hybrid, Honda now becomes the first company in the world to offer three distinct hybrid models including the world's first V-6 hybrid.

"The Accord Hybrid is the first hybrid vehicle that combines superb fuel economy with truly exhilarating performance," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president of American Honda. "By applying hybrid technology to two of America's most popular vehicles, first the Civic and now the Accord, we are taking hybrids even further into the mainstream."

The Accord Hybrid achieves an estimated EPA fuel economy rating of 30mpg in the city and 37mpg on the highway, an increase of 43 percent over the current Accord V-6 in city driving and 23 percent in highway driving. In addition, the Accord Hybrid delivers 255 horsepower (versus 240hp for the Accord V-6 Sedan) with an exceptionally broad and flat torque curve for outstanding power and driving performance.

Acceleration performance from 0-60 miles per hour and from 50-70mph is reduced by one half second compared with the already powerful and sporty Accord V-6 Sedan.

The new Accord Hybrid also comes equipped with a high level of premium features and equipment including a leather interior, dual zone automatic hybrid climate control, 8-way power driver's seat, XM Satellite radio and 6-disc CD changer. In keeping with Honda's industry-leading 'Safety for Everyone' initiative, all Accord Hybrids also come equipped with a comprehensive list of advanced safety features including driver and front passenger side airbags, first and second row side curtain airbags, four-wheel anti-lock brakes (ABS) and Traction Control System (TCS). An exclusive rear deck lid spoiler and specially designed alloy wheels contribute to the Accord Hybrid's improved aerodynamic performance.

The Accord Hybrid's instrument panel incorporates an exclusive meter display that shows key operating indicators of the IMA system, including the state of the IMA battery charge, the level of IMA motor assist or charge, and a light to indicate Idle Stop mode. There is also an "ECO" light to indicate that the vehicle is achieving a high level of fuel economy and the VCM is operating in 3-cylinder mode.

To further improve overall fuel efficiency and maintain precise and responsive handling, the Accord Hybrid utilizes a number of exclusive weight saving features including a lightweight aluminum hood and bumper beams (front and rear), along with a magnesium engine head cover and dual-stage intake manifold. Other fuel saving features include an Electric Power Steering (EPS) system - like the one used on the high-performance S2000 sports car - and a new more efficient dual scroll"hybrid" air conditioning compressor.

Third Generation IMA System and i-VTEC with VCM

Honda's third generation Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system is improved in virtually every area including increased motor output, improved battery performance and greater total system efficiency. Compared to the Civic Hybrid, IMA motor torque output is improved by 26 percent during startup and is more than doubled during driving to 100 lb.-ft. from 46 lb.-ft. Also, battery output density increases by 45 percent while battery assist power increases by 20 percent. Regenerative braking efficiency is up 11 percent.

The Accord Hybrid's 3.0-liter i-VTEC V-6 engine has the same 3.0-liter displacement as the regular Accord V-6, but employs a number of unique features including a dual-stage intake manifold and a high-performance lock-up torque converter. A new, more compact 5-speed automatic transmission with an electric oil pump is designed to provide smooth start-up from Idle Stop, and helps allow for packaging of the engine, IMA motor, engine torque converter and automatic transmission. Adding to overall efficiency is a "hybrid" air conditioning compressor that runs on both the gasoline engine and the IMA battery and provides for good air conditioning performance even when the engine is in Idle Stop mode.

IMA, VCM and Idle Stop Operation

The IMA system's 12-kilowatt, high-output, electric motor contributes more than 100 lb.-ft. of torque to the Accord Hybrid's 3.0-liter V-6 engine during hard acceleration and recaptures kinetic energy generated during deceleration and braking for storage in the IMA system's advanced nickel-metal hydride battery pack. When cruising at steady speeds where less engine power is required, the VCM system deactivates the V-6 engine's rear bank of cylinders, closing both the intake and exhaust valves for reduced fuel consumption.

Under light acceleration from a cruising state, the IMA motor can provide power assistance to the engine in three-cylinder mode. When coming to a stop, the IMA system shuts off the vehicle's engine at speeds below 10mph to reduce fuel consumption and exhaust emissions. At the moment the driver releases the brake pedal, the IMA motor instantaneously restarts the gasoline engine.

Honda Hybrid Leadership

Honda has long been at the leading edge of new automotive technologies, especially in the area of improved fuel economy and reduced emissions. With the introduction of the Insight in December 1999, Honda became the first company to sell a hybrid vehicle in the U.S. With an aluminum body, ultra-efficient IMA powertrain and world-class aerodynamics, the Insight has held the title of America's most fuel-efficient car for each of the past five model years (2000-2004). In March 2002, Honda applied its hybrid technology to the Civic, America's best-selling compact car. The Civic Hybrid accounted for half of all new hybrid vehicle registrations in calendar year 2003 and took two of the top five spots on the EPA's model year 2004 fuel economy rankings. Sales of the Civic Hybrid are up 16 percent to 17,805 units through the end of August this year.

Honda Accord History

Since its introduction as a compact hatchback car in 1976, the Honda Accord has earned widespread acclaim as a leader in smart design, superb quality and world-class efficiency. In its 28-year history, the Accord has constantly re-invented itself, going from the original compact hatchback to today's mid-sized sedan and coupe. The seventh-generation Accord, released in 2003, once again raised the bar for performance, safety and value in its class with a highly efficient and powerful 3.0-liter, 240-horsepower VTEC V-6 engine, standard anti-lock brakes (ABS) and standard features such as tilt-telescoping steering, air conditioning, power windows, mirrors and door locks, and an AM/FM/CD stereo. In addition, the seventh-generation Accord was one of the first mid-sized sedans to bring luxury features such as a voice-activated navigation system, XM satellite radio and side curtain airbags to the premium mid-size segment.

goldmemberer

Plenty of pictures on ToV also: http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=280244

Specs pasted from Tov:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid Specifications

ENGINE
Type: Aluminum-Alloy V-6
Displacement (cc) 2997
Bore x Stroke (mm) 86x86
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net) 255@6000
Torque (lb.-ft.@rpm) 232/5000
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Valve Train SOHC i-VTEC
Fuel System PGM-FI
Ignition System Full Transistor High Power
Idle Stop Feature x
CARB Emissions Ratings LEVII-ULEV
EPA Emissions Rating Tier 2, Bin 5
Tune-Up Interval (miles) 105,000
12V Battery 120AH
.
ELECTRIC MOTOR / GENERATOR
Motor Type: Permanent Magnet Motor x
Power Output (kW / horsepower @ rpm) 12 kW /16 hp @ 840 rpm
Torque (lb.-ft.@rpm) 100 @ 840 rpm
Motor Width (mm) 68
Rated Voltage 144
.
IMA ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Type of Battery Ni-MH
Output 144 V (120 cells @1.2 V) 13.8 kW
Rated Capacity 6.0Ah
Alternator (DC-DC Inverter) 144 Volt to 12 Volt
DC-DC Inverter (for Dual Scroll Hybrid A/C Compressor) 144 Volt to 24 Volt
.
POWERTRAIN
Type: Front-Wheel Drive x
Automatic Transmission: 5-Speed x
Gear Ratios: 1st 2.685
2nd 1.565
3rd 1.023
4th 0.729
5th 0.530
Reverse 1.888
Final Drive Ratio 4.375
.
CHASSIS
Body Type: Unit Body Unit Body
Suspension (front/rear) Independent Double Wishbone, Coil Spring with Stabilizer
Stabilizer Bar (mm, front/rear) 25.4/14
Steering Type Electric, Power Assisted, Rack and Pinion
Steering System, Overall Ratio 16.25
Turns, Lock to Lock 3.17
Ventilated Front Disk/Solid Rear Disk Brakes x
Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) x
Disc Brake Diameter (in., front/rear) 11.1/10.2
Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) x
Traction Control Sysytem (TCS) x
Wheel Size 16x6.5
Tire Size P215/60R16
Shock Absorbers Telescopic, Hydraulic Nitrogen Gas Filled
.
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase (in.) 107.9
Length (in.) 189.5
Height (in.) 57.1
Width (in.) 71.5
Track (in., front/rear) 61.1/61.2
Curb Weight (lbs.) 3501
Weight Distribution (lbs., front/rear) 2143/1358
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs.) 4453
.
INTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Headroom (in., front/rear) 40.4/38.5
Legroom (in., front/rear) 42.6/36.8
Shoulder Room (in., front/rear) 56.9/56.1
Hiproom (in., front/rear) 54.6/53.5
Cargo Volume (cu. ft.) 11.2
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.) 102.7
Seating Capacity 5
.
EPA MILEAGE ESTIMATES**/FUEL CAPACITY
City/Highway 30/37
Fuel (gal.) 17.1
Required Fuel Regular Unleaded
Driving Range 633 miles

goldmemberer

So, compared with the TL, this gets 10mpg extra in the city, has 3 less hp (255 for the gas engine + 12 for the electric = 267hp), probably something like a peak 300lb/ft of torque (and that might be conservative) and is a little bit lighter.

I'm not saying that the TL sucks now that this is out, but what I'm saying is that I'm real excited to see what Honda will do when introducing the hybrid system to Acura. I'm positive that the TSX and/or TL will get it within two years. And they'll be better performing and more finely tuned systems.

Awesome.

Time For Sleeep

... it actually makes me want a hybrid.

1SICKLEX

This is SENSATIONAL news and HUGE KUDOS to HONDA!! BRING Hybrids to the MAINSTREAM!!!

gavriil

It does not work that way. You cant just add peak HP of IC engine and peak HP of electric engine to get the peak HP of both.

Nevertheless, I am very impressed by this newly massaged 3.0 V6 by Honda. Makes as much torque as ours with 200 less cc.

goldmemberer

Power Output (kW / horsepower @ rpm) 12 kW /16 hp @ 840 rpm
Torque (lb.-ft.@rpm) 100 @ 840 rpm

Do you think there's any reason for the electric motor to rev past 840 rpm?

Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net) 255@6000

Is it reasonably safe to assume that the electric motor will have revved to 840 rpm by the time that the gas engine has reached 6000 rpm? From what little I understand of the electric motors, I gather that they rev instantly and stay that way if you're pushing the car hard. If I'm misinformed, do let me know.

heyitsme

Would like to see some realworld mpgs first. Also I think they should have differentiated this model from the rest more considering this isn't just a hybrid version, its the top of the line accord.

gavriil

We'll see when the detailed tech reviews come out.

Up to now, I have not heard of an elecric motor making peak power at the IC engine's peak power point.

goldmemberer

Good point. Lets reserve speculation.

iNteGraz92

it is not the same i-vtec as on the k-series engines. the i is for the cylinder deactivation system.

Tommy Tran

Glad I read/scrolled all the way down before I posted ... ditto...

Peace

samkws

TL will get an upgrade soon for the engine i believe, since the accord is catching up

maybe the 300hp engine that the RL has

MADCAT

I'm telling you. HONDA is just experimenting with the power outputs of their current engines to see if they standup. I am sure we will see very powerful engines coming out next two years for both Accord and TL.

mikelee223

Driving a hybrid will also get you cashback from tax refunds. I dont know where i heard this. If Kerry gets elected. The refund will be 5gs?

samkws

not anymore soon since the gas price are up that much

demand is high

i love the lexus RX hybird

Rio

Those deductions are now phasing out over 2004-2006.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

$1500 deduction for 2004 hybrids
$1000 deduction for 2005 hybrids
$500 deduction for 2006 hybrids

But it says that there's some debate, so this might change.
The deduction will help, but it's probably not going to significantly defray the added cost of the vehicle vs fuel savings. So maybe it'd pay for itself in 8-10 years instead of 12.

mikelee223

I know that $hit is HOT. Definitely get one myself. Unless the MDX goes hybrid.

F23A4

Good luck to anyone trying to get an RX Hybrid; 9,000 are already prepurchased but still not even in the showrooms yet.

jcg878

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hond...irstdrive.1g.*

Think Honda, think (I think this comment is partially generated by the editor-in-chief, who loves the Accord but thinks the TL isn't worth it).

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Hmm...guess we'll have to wait to see what a test-drive reveals, but the Hybrid is of great interest to me. Perhaps I'll see if I can weasel a test-drive at the local Honda dealer when the cars become available.

slo007

The Accord is too boring. There's too many of them out on the road. I like having unique cars. My first one was a Jetta IV, right after it came out. It took 6 months for the car to become common. The TSX only now is starting to become common to the point I see 2-3 per day. My next car is most definitely not going to be an Accord!