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I disagree. Back when I had my '99 Civic SiR (or Si for you Americans), I hated that car. Why? Because it had zero power. 160hp and 111lbft for a 2700 pound car is terrible. I have no idea why thieves love that car. I had to rev it to it's 8000rpm red line much too often... making people think I was trying to race them. I was just trying to be able to pass, or keep up, or whatever. So annoying. And revving that high all the time gets annoying really quick. You can have low end torque for days with a turbo... you're only making use of any of your horsepower on a small NA engine, if you rev it to the moon. So 10 times a day you're in the real power zone, for 10 seconds at a time. The rest, you're putting around town with half the power.
That's far better than I could explain it. Glad you're not dead.
S2000 is nothing like TSX... TSX is epitome of luxury car design and innovation. TSX has best in class refinement, fuel economic, ground clearance, rear leg room, aerodynamics, ergonomically designed interior, etc. S2000 doesn't even have chrome door handles like TSX.
while we have been saying that s2000 is not fast but it is not slow by any means.. your SiR had 160hp and 111 ft lb of torque at 2700. Now imagine 240hp and 162 ft lb of torque for a 2800 lbs car and RWD.
out of 6 years of ownership i had never felt s2000 was under powered, like you said that it does get annoying sometimes because you have to rev high to go fast. But for the day to day, it really did not feel it was lacking much.
If anything my 3.0 T has too much, because it feels going too fast when i go past 3k rpm.
low end torque has its advantage and fun factor but rev/high with enough power at the top end also offers a different kind of fun... that many current and previous s2k owners can appreciate (look at the resale # of s2k)
Now when you have no low end torque + no high end power (RX8) then that is a big fail.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 08-02-2017 at 06:38 PM.
I disagree. Back when I had my '99 Civic SiR (or Si for you Americans), I hated that car. Why? Because it had zero power. 160hp and 111lbft for a 2700 pound car is terrible. I have no idea why thieves love that car. I had to rev it to it's 8000rpm red line much too often... making people think I was trying to race them. I was just trying to be able to pass, or keep up, or whatever. So annoying. And revving that high all the time gets annoying really quick. You can have low end torque for days with a turbo... you're only making use of any of your horsepower on a small NA engine, if you rev it to the moon. So 10 times a day you're in the real power zone, for 10 seconds at a time. The rest, you're putting around town with half the power.
I loved making my 99si scream for mercy. Especially with an intake on it. I really wish they had put the 1.8 or 2.0 in it though. That little thing really needed 180-195hp
while we have been saying that s2000 is not fast but it is not slow by any means.. your SiR had 160hp and 111 ft lb of torque at 2700. Now imagine 240hp and 162 ft lb of torque for a 2800 lbs car and RWD.
out of 6 years of ownership i had never felt s2000 was under powered, like you said that it does get annoying sometimes because you have to rev high to go fast. But for the day to day, it really did not feel it was lacking much.
If anything my 3.0 T has too much, because it feels going too fast when i go past 3k rpm.
low end torque has its advantage and fun factor but rev/high with enough power at the top end also offers a different kind of fun... that many current and previous s2k owners can appreciate (look at the resale # of s2k)
Now when you have no low end torque + no high end power (RX8) then that is a big fail.
The S2k has so much drama, noise, and vibration from those 4 cylinders of fury that it feels like you're going much faster than you actually are. If you really wring it out, the car is not slow by any means, it's just not fast.
Yea it was fast back then but an Accord V6 would smoke it nowadays haha. But that's okay the noise it makes when you punch it is too awesome. That's why I'm keeping it lol.
shiiiet... baseline syno for the Accord 2.0T: 265hp and over 300lbft of torque
Byyyye TLX!!!
In the TLX Reassurance Forum, they reported that the Accord 2.0T will hardly even run on a Dyno, and that it underperforms the old Accord V6 substantially, and therefore the TLX isn't all that bad.
In the TLX Reassurance Forum, they reported that the Accord 2.0T will hardly even run on a Dyno, and that it underperforms the old Accord V6 substantially, and therefore the TLX isn't all that bad.
The Accord 2.0T dyno video posted above is by Shawn Church for Hondata. It's a 2.0T 6MT model.
The one in the Road and Track video is with the 10AT which is difficult to dyno.
Also the video above is done on a hub dyno. On a dynojet it's probably more like 255hp and 290lbft at the wheels for the 2.0T
I guess for me, what's more important is how fast the car really is. Car and Driver got 5.5s for 0-60mph and 14.1@102mph with the 10AT model. I think that's plenty fast for a family sedan and faster than the new 2018 301hp V6 Camry!
A friend bought a 2018 Accord EX-L (1.5T CVT) last week. Drove it yesterday, after fixing a tire puncture (<100 miles and first flat tire).
Overall pretty nice, the tech features are very impressive (the camera behind the rear-view mirror used for lane steering/warning also reads the speed limit and displays it on the instrument panel).
Overall driving experience is very positive, basically same engine as in my wife's CRV. Nice ride and excellent NVH suppression.
The new center display and it's mechanical switches and two knobs are nice upgrade over the CRV's single knob and only touch switches.
^^ One of the cool features of the new 10G Accord is the aluminum front lower control arms and front aluminum subframe.
Both are new for the Accord and the 3G TL only had an aluminum subframe, no aluminum control arms.
You can see both in the front suspension picture.
They've been at my local dealer since the start of December. However, they weren't going to get the 2.0T until mid December (I haven't been back since the first visit).
I will call BS on your statement. Unless, of course, Montreal, a city 3 times the size of mine, has been shafted by Honda. Me thinks you're lying.
one thing is for certain... the new engines look uuuuuuugly.
That would never be a deal breaker for me, but man, gone are the days of the ultra beautiful B series engines. K series engines weren't bad also, but still nothing else Honda makes can hold a flame to the B series. Nicest valve cover ever. But hey, you gotta keep costs at bay somehow- and having an ugly engine bay seems like a good place to start.
They've been at my local dealer since the start of December. However, they weren't going to get the 2.0T until mid December (I haven't been back since the first visit).
I will call BS on your statement. Unless, of course, Montreal, a city 3 times the size of mine, has been shafted by Honda. Me thinks you're lying.
Of course I lie.
My daily commute includes passing by a large Honda dealer and not a single one ... no advertising either. it must be imminent but still odd.
one thing is for certain... the new engines look uuuuuuugly.
That would never be a deal breaker for me, but man, gone are the days of the ultra beautiful B series engines. K series engines weren't bad also, but still nothing else Honda makes can hold a flame to the B series. Nicest valve cover ever. But hey, you gotta keep costs at bay somehow- and having an ugly engine bay seems like a good place to start.
The bigger issue is that 99% of Accord owners probably won't ever open the hood themselves anyway.
Also 2018 2.0T's have been available here for a few months now. There are even manuals out there locally. Now it just needs to not be so fucking cold and I'll go try one out. Really interested in it if the power output is what they say.
one thing is for certain... the new engines look uuuuuuugly.
That would never be a deal breaker for me, but man, gone are the days of the ultra beautiful B series engines. K series engines weren't bad also, but still nothing else Honda makes can hold a flame to the B series. Nicest valve cover ever. But hey, you gotta keep costs at bay somehow- and having an ugly engine bay seems like a good place to start.
Agree, it's a ugly motor.
We had a 1986 Integra and it's DOHC D16 browntop engine was a visual work of art.
Although it's not attractive it performs well and glad Honda didn't cover it up with plastic panels which look even more unappealing.
Despite the appearance there's some interesting tech that's in the open as well.
In the engine picture look to the left of the exhaust/turbo/cat shield you can see the cylinder electric servo motor for the wastegate valve.
This motor really a Jason Pollock collage of hoses, wire harnesses, and various bits and pieces cobbled together.
Agree, it's a ugly motor.
We had a 1986 Integra and it's DOHC D16 browntop engine was a visual work of art.
Although it's not attractive it performs well and glad Honda didn't cover it up with plastic panels which look even more unappealing.
Despite the appearance there's some interesting tech that's in the open as well.
In the engine picture look to the left of the exhaust/turbo/cat shield you can see the cylinder electric servo motor for the wastegate valve.
This motor really a Jason Pollock collage of hoses, wire harnesses, and various bits and pieces cobbled together.
[threaddrift] Is that an oddity? I thought just about all D-series were SOHC? [/threaddrift]
Edit: Wiki to the answer. D16A1 & a few D16Z* variants were DOHC for USDM.
2018 Honda Accord Named 2018 North American Car of the Year
Jan 15, 2018 - TORRANCE, Calif.
3rd straight year for Honda to win a North American "of the Year" award following Civic (2016) and Ridgeline (2017)
2018 Accord honored for bold "new from the ground up" approach to remaking America's best-selling car over the past 41 years
More than 11 million Accords made in America
TORRANCE, Calif.– The all-new 2018 Honda Accord, the 10th generation of America's most popular car, has earned the prestigious 2018 North American Car of the Year award. Accord's win marks the third consecutive year that a Honda model has received top honors from the North American jury of automotive journalists, with the Honda Civic and Honda Ridgeline winning the car and truck awards in 2016 and 2017, respectively.
"Honda took a clean-sheet approach to reinventing America's most popular car, and we couldn't be prouder to receive this honor for Accord as the North American Car of the Year," said Henio Arcangeli, Jr., senior vice president of the Automobile Division and general manager of Honda Sales, American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "We're especially proud for the production associates in Ohio where Accord has been built to the highest quality standards for over 35 years.1"
The North American Car, Utility and Truck of the Year awards honor excellence in innovation, design, safety features, performance, technology, driver satisfaction and value. Initiated in 1994, they are judged by 60 professional automotive journalists from the United States and Canada who work for independent magazines, television, radio, newspapers and industry websites.
Completely redesigned from the ground-up, the all-new Accord features a lighter and more rigid body structure, an advanced new chassis design wrapped in a more sophisticated, sleek and athletic design with top class interior space and comfort. The drivetrain options include two all-new, high-torque VTEC® Turbo engines, the world's first 10-speed automatic transmission for a front-drive car and a new generation of Honda's two-motor hybrid technology. The Accord also includes a host of new safety, driver-assistive and connected-car technologies.
About the Honda Accord
Over 10 generations and 41 years, American car buyers have made Accord the best-selling car in America, purchasing more than 13 million Accords. Accord was the first model from a Japanese automaker to be made in America, beginning in November 1982 in Marysville, Ohio, with cumulative U.S. production of Accord exceeding 11 million vehicles over more than 35 years. Accord also is an unprecedented 32-time recipient of Car and Driver magazine's coveted 10Best award.
About Honda
Honda offers a full line of reliable, fuel-efficient and fun-to-drive vehicles with advanced safety technologies sold through over 1,000 independent U.S. Honda dealers. The Honda lineup includes the Fit, Civic, Accord and Clarity series passenger cars, along with the HR-V, CR-V and Pilot sport/utility vehicles, the Ridgeline pickup and the Odyssey minivan.
Honda has been producing automobiles in America for 36 years and currently operates 19 major manufacturing facilities in North America. In 2017, more than 93% of all Honda and Acura vehicles sold in the U.S. were made in North America, using domestic and globally sourced parts.
Using Hondata’s FlashPro device, the company claims gains of between 10-40 hp and has posted a dyno sheet of the Stage 1 tune that shows increases of about 10 hp and roughly 40 lb-ft. When Hondata put a factory Accord 2.0T on a dyno (see the video below), they recorded a baseline of 266 hp and 292 lb-ft to the wheels, well above Honda’s advertised power ratings. The estimated gains are based on those dyno numbers, so that puts the Stage 1 reflashed Accord at 276 hp and a healthy 332 lb-ft to the wheels using California’s 91 octane gas. That’s already more torque than the Civic Type R makes (306-hp and 295 lb-ft).
If Hondata was able to get 10 hp and 40 lb-ft from this tune, imagine the torque increase from the tune that gets you 40 hp. Well, we don’t have to imagine as Hondata posted a video of the dyno run with the Stage 2 tune showing peak torque of 375.8 lb-ft–a gain of about 80 lb-ft over Hondata’s baseline figure. Additionally, the Stage 2 reflash adds 50-55 hp in the middle of the power band, which is said to dramatically affect the driving experience.
The FlashPro only works on model-year 2018 or newer Accords with the turbo 2.0-liter engine and connects to the OBDII port without any ECU modification, but you will need a computer with a USB 2.0 connection. The FlashPro device retails for $695, and appears to enable both Stage 1 and Stage 2 tunes. However, it’s unclear if any additional aftermarket parts are required for either reflash.
Honda is slowly phasing out its naturally aspirated engines in favor of turbocharged engines. While Honda purists may cry foul over this, many enthusiasts are taking advantage of the impressive power gains that come from tuning a turbocharged engine. Check out the numbers Hondata got from the Accord’s 2.0-liter turbo-four in the video below, and also check out their baseline run to see how much power the new engine really makes.
I will assume:
Stage 1: completely stock car with just a ecu reflash.
Stage 2: requires some minor bolt ons I imagine, to be able to hit those numbers.
either way... with the stage 2... you gain 40hp and 80lbft?
man, the amount of money you'd have to drop into a stock NA V6 to gain 40hp and maybe 1/4 of that torque is ridiculous. Now it's $695 and maybe an exhaust system.
I'm curious what the long term reliability of that much boost will be, though. I guess time will tell. But shit... 306hp and Almost 380lbft of torque?
Seriously. This is absolutely incredible. Definitely will likely cause less longevity as these kinds of power were likely not designed/engineered for other parts to handle....but man that is awesome and a side positive of turbo motors. Seriously gonna think about the 2.0T Accord as my future sporty sedan......!!!
Those are exactly whp figures - they are measured at the hub, impressive nonetheless.
The peak hp gain with the stage 2 vs tune is actually 20hp. It's just that in the middle of the rpm range, the gain is bigger because of the much fatter torque curve, which is more important for daily driving.
The Accord 2.0T 6MT is much slower than the 2.0T 10AT with both in stock form.
I think the 10AT will have trouble handling 400lbft of torque in the long run. The 6MT should be fine IMO.
Wonder what this will do for reliability... I'm not sure how much overhead was designed into what amounts to an average commuter car. The CTR probably has a ton of design space over what it ships with because people will beat the piss out of it.
08-02-2017, 10:36 AM
