For a Korean make lacking any substantive performance “pedigree”, those are impressive numbers. (Nissan and MB have been in this game a long time; their bar should be set higher.) If the TLX had this setup and these performance numbers, it’d likely be far better received than the Accord V6 premium it is now.

Coming from the guy who drives in sport+ mode all the time, and never gets any good fuel economy because otherwise his car is a completely turd with a bigger turd transmission

Please realize that your arguments make zero sense whatsoever. You whine day in, day out about needing to get the best MPGs, and yet your actions dictate 100% opposite of that. Drive in Sport+ mode all the time. Don’t want to be down low in the rpm range, apparently ever. So which one is it? Because by what you’re suggesting, your fuel economy has to be shit and yet you argue and argue and argue all about squeezing that extra 40km out of a tank of gas.

Thank you!

and now he will come back and argue the sound of the 2.0t is inadequate... tell me, if you’re hyper-miling your car, how would you know what the engine even sounds like? So is it performance or is it mileage you’re chasing? Because you surely cannot have both.

If a 2.0T is a toy, then what is a 2.0?

I can only beat snails if they give me a car length

Back to the insults, I see.

Anyway, why are you bringing up a near 13 year old bmw? You do realize that due to physics, there is literally only so much we can pull from an internal combustion engine, right? Whether it be power or economy, we are still limited. No one is making any leaps and bounds in this regard, these days. The turbo allows you to get better economy when not boosting. This is 110% well known in the automotive community, not some made up BS.

Again, you have no clue how a turbo engine works. If you aren’t hitting boost, you have just a regular I4 chugging along. The thing with that is the heavier the vehicle is, the worse the economy will be. Once again, physics. Yeah, a 2.0L NA I4 will get terrible economy if moving 5000 pounds of mass. What you are missing, and even though you pointed it out, you CAN get marginally better fuel economy... and in this day and age, with all the regulations in place, companies are dying to reach better numbers, no matter how small.

You're all about saving apparently, so on that note, when premium, at least here, was hitting $1.55/L, why would you say the minimal improvements in fuel economy aren’t worth it? You even admit the turbo engines save a bit on fuel. We know they have equal performance as an NA V6, if not slightly better also. So a turbo engine has slightly better fuel economy and slightly better performance and you piss on it saying it’s garbage, because... of the sound?

Also, when they do fuel economy testing, what are the conditions? If they’re testing the cars under WOT acceleration, of course it won’t have any better numbers. Please re-read what Sam wrote. But what you’re missing is the car is putting out equal horsepower and more torque (even while still being heavily held back by the manufacturer). Every turbo car is held back. On purpose. It’s funny, my 2.0T Sonata could easily get better fuel economy, by as much as 3.5L/100km, vs my 3.2L NA V6. I’m not going by any claimed numbers. I’m going by actual driving. My TL, at best, could hit 9.5L/100km on the highway, and I’d be doing whatever possible to hyper-mile that bitch. Doing the exact same on the Sonata, I got as low as 6.5L/100km on the highway. And comparing power figures... the Sonata had 274hp/270lbft of torque. My TL has 252hp and I don’t remember the torque, but it was substantially less. I even raced the two against each other from a dead stop. No dropping the clutch, not revving up, nada. Light turned green, both drivers hammered the throttle and went. The Sonata time and again would pull ahead by about 1.5 car lengths. And the Sonata had a shitty auto transmission vs the sporty 6MT.

You keep saying we are we are all idiots, yet EVERY brand out there is following the same trend. Hmmm... maybe EVERY brand is on to something that you still refuse to admit. No one is trying to rain on your parade. Quite the contrary. But it’s also a well known fact that the older we get, the more afraid of change we become. You seem terrified of anything besides the good ol’ days.

Honestly, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on. Sound? Sure. But you’re whining about fuel economy all the time, so I’m not sure why sound even matters. In a “luxury” car that is also sound deadened to crazy levels, at that. Unless you enjoy fake engine sounds. Then get a 2.0T and pump in Ferrari engine sounds all day long. I’ve seen aftermarket systems like that.

100% this. I’m guessing the standards they use to get fuel economy numbers Are likely based on a variety of driving styles, to get some sort of average. Once again, as mentioned, if you’re hammering the throttle, you will not get better economy. Please reread Sams statement. If you’re off the boost you will get regular I4 engine fuel economy. This isn’t some kind of myth. This is reality.

I literally *just* saw a news clip on BBC, here in Europe, where they say pretty much all manufacturers are bullshitting fuel economy claims. So by that note, whatever is claimed can’t even be trusted. What needs to be done is real world testing. Aka, take your car out, fill it up, drive until empty, refill again to see how much fuel was actually used and how many miles were actually covered. Even that isn’t 100% accurate because you don’t actually know when a tank is back to its original fuel level when you started... it’ll be close, but likely not exact. But... if you do it for five tanks of gas, you’ll likely get an accurate number.

Once again, in my real world experience, as far as fuel economy was concerned, my 2.0T destroyed my 3.2 V6. Also, in my real world experience, my 2.0T kicked the 3.2 V6s ass.

And do you know what sucks? I was hoping to God my TL would school the Sonata, and I was left with the SO laughing at me at the next set of lights. both cars weighed similarly, both had 18” wheels. The major difference was one had a slush box auto, while the other had a 6MT. Every time I had to shift, the 2.0T just kept pulling. I was trying to shift as fast as physically possible, and even ended up grinding one of my gears one time because I did it much too fast. Could. Not. Keep. Up.

Do you know why manufacturers are bullshitting their numbers? Because we’ve been developing internal combustion engines for over 100 years now and have pretty much maxed out what we can do with them. It’s simply due to the limitations of physics on this planet. Direct injection was the only real new development that happened in the last decade, and that came with all sorts of problems on the side. It’s easy to implement new and more stringent regulations... hell, they don’t have to be based on anything at all. “Hit 50MPG by 2030, or else”. Sadly, physics doesn’t work that way.

You don’t have to prove anything to us. We already know. But... if you want to learn for yourself, feel free to do some real world testing. Hell, rent a “shitty” 2.0T for a week and see what happens. It’ll all come down to your bias though. If you’re able to stay objective about it all, you’ll likely be left surprised.

And finally, why on earth would Honda spend hundreds of millions developing all new turbo platforms if the existing J series was the better alternative? It was tried, tested and true. It had 20 years of development. And yet even Honda decided to move on.