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Old 09-07-2006 | 02:28 PM
  #401  
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In a slightly relevant note, I was just reading a long term report in one of the big mags about the new Eclipse GT and they are saying that is has been bulletproof with absolutely no issues so far. Mitsu needs all the help they can get so I felt happy for them about that report.
Old 09-07-2006 | 03:29 PM
  #402  
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I really dont think american cars are that unreliable. I seen many of them with well over 100k miles without issues. Hell the GF has a sebring with 75k miles and her dad has a ford van with 105k miles, all without major issues. Her dad drives his van pretty hard too as if its a sports car.

I wouldnt say they are up there with lexus or anything but they are sure reliable enough to buy them. I personally think this warranty is a great way to bring confidence into their brand. I would buy one.. then when i realize the car is pretty soild, i will then buy another GM product. Gotta win loyality i guess.

Theres just too much stereotyping in car industry.
Old 09-07-2006 | 03:57 PM
  #403  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Theres just too much stereotyping in car industry.
It's not so much stereotyping as it is personal experience.

Everyone's experience is going to be different, but mine with domestic cars has been less than stellar. I'm just saying, based on my experience with the domestic vehicles owned by my family and friends, I would not buy one today. Call me a car racist if you want, but why would I buy a domestic when every one that I know of is garbage, yet every Honda and Toyota I've known has been great?

It would take a lot more than an bump in the warranty period for me to pick a GM over a comparable Honda product. Who knows, maybe in 10 years everyone will be at the same quality level and it won't matter which brand you choose. That would be great for consumers.

It's also great from a consumer point of view that GM is bumping the warranties on their products. I just question it from a business perspective. These warranties will cost GM a lot of cash down the road; there's no question about that. The only question is will the extended warranty period attact enough new customers to the brand to offset the warranty cost? It seems GM is confident they will, and I say good luck to them. The more competition, the better.
Old 09-07-2006 | 04:15 PM
  #404  
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Your personal experience is only from what you hear from others. So of course you will hear the bad over the good. Isnt that what we hear on this forum... all the bad and hardly the good?

So if we based everything on the bad, then Acura would be a poor buy.....
Acura even stepped up and offered a 100k warranty on their tranny and everyone praised them for it. Why is it bad if GM does it?

I consider "personal experience" is somthing that you have personally own and driven. Hearing others isnt exactly the same to me. I have no experience with any american cars so i have no right to say if they are reliable or not yet. Hell people told me my Audi wouldnt be reliable before i bought it... but i proven that to be false as well. Its a hit or miss with these type of cars.

Last edited by Crazy Bimmer; 09-07-2006 at 04:18 PM.
Old 09-07-2006 | 04:39 PM
  #405  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin

Initial quality is one thing, but long term reliability is another. Initial quality just means your workers were awake enough that day to screw together a car according to print. Long term reliability involves quality engineering and use of quality materials. I don't know what consumer reports article you're referring to, but I've got the September 2006 issue right here where they review small SUV's and not one domestic vehicle got above a "good" rating for predicted reliability. Every import was "excellent" or "very good".

Top ranking brands:

1. Lexus (Toyota), Score: 136

2. Mercury (Ford), Score: 151

3. Buick (GM), Score: 153

4. Cadillac (GM), Score: 163

5. Toyota, Score: 179

6. Acura (Honda), Score: 184

7. Honda, Score: 194

8. Jaguar (Ford), Score: 210

9. BMW, Score: 212

10. Infiniti (Nissan), Score: 215

11. Lincoln (Ford), Score: 220

12. Ford, Score: 224

13. Oldsmobile (GM), Score: 224

Average score: 227

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/08/auto...lity/index.htm
Old 09-07-2006 | 04:53 PM
  #406  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Your personal experience is only from what you hear from others. So of course you will hear the bad over the good. Isnt that what we hear on this forum... all the bad and hardly the good?
Not from what I hear, from what I see with my very own eyes. These are my friends and family's cars that I'm talking about, not just some story on the internet.
So if we based everything on the bad, then Acura would be a poor buy.....
Acura even stepped up and offered a 100k warranty on their tranny and everyone praised them for it. Why is it bad if GM does it?
I just said it was a good thing for consumers in my last post.
I consider "personal experience" is somthing that you have personally own and driven. Hearing others isnt exactly the same to me. I have no experience with any american cars so i have no right to say if they are reliable or not yet. Hell people told me my Audi wouldnt be reliable before i bought it... but i proven that to be false as well. Its a hit or miss with these type of cars.
If all I can use is my own personal experience to judge if a car is good or not, I would say VW's are 100% unreliable and Acuras are 100% reliable. Hopefully I don't need to buy one of every manufacturer's car to determine reliabilty.
Old 09-07-2006 | 04:57 PM
  #407  
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Top ranking brands:

1. Lexus (Toyota), Score: 136

2. Mercury (Ford), Score: 151

3. Buick (GM), Score: 153

4. Cadillac (GM), Score: 163

5. Toyota, Score: 179

6. Acura (Honda), Score: 184

7. Honda, Score: 194

8. Jaguar (Ford), Score: 210

9. BMW, Score: 212

10. Infiniti (Nissan), Score: 215

11. Lincoln (Ford), Score: 220

12. Ford, Score: 224

13. Oldsmobile (GM), Score: 224

Average score: 227

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/08/auto...lity/index.htm
Originally Posted by Consumer Reports
http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...tentid=4023544
* Of the 31 cars that earned top rating, 29 were Japanese. Of these, 15 were from Toyota and its Lexus division and eight were from Honda. Some redesigned or new Japanese models from Toyota and Honda, however suffered "first-year blues." The new Scion tC and the redesigned 2005 Acura RL, Toyota Avalon, and Honda Odyssey earned only average reliability scores, for example.

* Of the 48 cars that earned the lowest rating, 22 carry American nameplates, 20 are European, 4 are from Japan (all from Nissan and its Infiniti division), and 2 are from South Korea.

* Some European models, which have had poor reliability in our previous surveys, improved slightly. The six-cylinder BMW X5 and X3, for example, earned average Ratings and are now the first European SUVs reliable enough to be recommended. However, most European models still scored far below average.

* Hybrids from both domestic and Japanese manufacturers continue to have above-average reliability, including the Honda Accord and Civic Hybrids, the Toyota Prius, and the Lexus RX400h, which received top scores.
Do we want to get into a stats battle when it really doesn't have much to do with this thread?
Old 09-07-2006 | 10:18 PM
  #408  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Not from what I hear, from what I see with my very own eyes. These are my friends and family's cars that I'm talking about, not just some story on the internet.
I just said it was a good thing for consumers in my last post.

If all I can use is my own personal experience to judge if a car is good or not, I would say VW's are 100% unreliable and Acuras are 100% reliable. Hopefully I don't need to buy one of every manufacturer's car to determine reliabilty.
It's easily apparant that you are heavily biased, so your opinion isn't very credible. I can easily say the same thing that Lexus is very unreliable from my mom's experience, but I know that not to be true. Every manufacturer has its share of problems. The Japanese companies seem to be more proactive in recalling and TSB'ing problems, which is good. Ford and GM wait until consumer outcries or the NHTSB makes them recall cars. I feel this is more of a financial problem than quality problem. Taking care of customers can easily make them forget some of the problems with a make or model. Ever wonder why Lexus is powerhouse in customer satisfaction? I wonder if that has any bearing on the quality rating of the car
Old 09-08-2006 | 06:48 AM
  #409  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
It's easily apparant that you are heavily biased, so your opinion isn't very credible.
My opinion is my opinion, who are you to say your opinion is more vaid than mine?

Plus, I don't think you understood my post which was a reply to Crazy Sellout's claim that I can only have an opinion based on my own personal experience with cars I have owned. That seems crazy since I have only ever owned two cars.

How do I know Ferraris are fast if I haven't owned one? Can I take the opinion of people who owned one that say they are fast, or do I need to buy one myself before I can have an opinion? I believe they are fast even though I haven't owned one. Why do I believe that? I see they do well in magazine reviews. I've seen them win races. I've heard from owners that they are fast. I've even been out in a few. If that's not enough to have an unbiased opinion, then I guess it's impossible to have an unbiased opinion.

Call it bias if you want, but if every one of my friends or family members that has bought a domestic vehicle has had trouble with it, then why should I believe that they are not prone to trouble? For every survey that says domestics are the best in the world, I can find one that says they're the worst. I am sure they are not the worst quality vehicles in the world. But I am also sure they are not the best.

All I am trying to say is, the domestic brands need to prove their reliability to me. In my personal bubble of vehicles that I deal with, they have not done so.

I can easily say the same thing that Lexus is very unreliable from my mom's experience, but I know that not to be true. Every manufacturer has its share of problems. The Japanese companies seem to be more proactive in recalling and TSB'ing problems, which is good. Ford and GM wait until consumer outcries or the NHTSB makes them recall cars. I feel this is more of a financial problem than quality problem. Taking care of customers can easily make them forget some of the problems with a make or model. Ever wonder why Lexus is powerhouse in customer satisfaction? I wonder if that has any bearing on the quality rating of the car
I have said it 3 times now in this thread: Extended warranties are a good thing for customers. I hope it works for GM, but I have my doubts from a financial standpoint.

My reasoning for this is I believe that warranty repairs on a Chevy Cobalt would cost more than a Honda Civic over a 5 year period. This added cost subtracts from the total sum of money GM makes for each Cobalt they sell. They have two ways of recovering that added cost: 1) increase the base price or 2) sell more vehicles to keep their factories running more efficiently. It doesn't sound like they're raising the base price of each model, so I assume they're trying to sell more cars. Hopefully the revenue the raise from selling all these new cars is more than the costs of providing an extended warranty. My point is, I have my doubts that this will be a net win for GM. I also think it would be more impressive to me if they were to take the money that they are essentially giving away with these extended warranties and put it into improving the quality of their vehicles. To me, a headline that reads "GM invests $1B in improving quality" is more impressive than "GM spends $1B in warranty repairs in years 4 and 5 of new extended warranties".
Old 09-08-2006 | 09:03 AM
  #410  
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Couldn't this increase in warranty to 5 years be considered an 'advertising' expense so the company can write all this off their taxes? I'm sure any warranty work would be considered a tax-reducing expense ...

But seriously, how often do we hear of transmission failures in the GM line? (I am asking this question because the 2 GM cars my parents have owned as well as all the GMs my aunts & uncles in town never had tranny issues ... my folks had a 1979 Buick Regal 4.9L that I drove a couple of times and another one in the 60s ... can't remember which one since I wasn't born yet)

As Dan has mentioned, this is a good sign for GM -- they are standing behind their product which means the bean counters & engineers have calculated that the extended warranty will not cost more $$$.
Old 09-08-2006 | 09:25 AM
  #411  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
My point is, I have my doubts that this will be a net win for GM. I also think it would be more impressive to me if they were to take the money that they are essentially giving away with these extended warranties and put it into improving the quality of their vehicles. To me, a headline that reads "GM invests $1B in improving quality" is more impressive than "GM spends $1B in warranty repairs in years 4 and 5 of new extended warranties".
All of this is flawed reasoning based on your limited sample of friends who all seem to have bad luck with domestics. This is not sound reasoning, and will never hold up. You do have a right to your perspective and opinion, but you can also be wrong too. GM probably has spent billions in improving quality, but you're just not giving them credit for it.

"I would rather read a headline that says 'Honda spends $1B improving transmission designs' rather than a headline that says 'Honda spends $1B on transmission warranty extensions'"




The quote above from the MSN article citing Consumer Reports data is a nice example of how statistics can be manipulated to lead people to to a pre-determined conclusion. Yes, Japanese vehicles are still the most reliable out there as a whole. But does this mean domestics are still still unreliable? Certainly not.

Hypothetical example:

1980's
Japanese vehicle problems per 100 vehicles: 30
Domestic vehicle problems per 100 vehicles: 100

2006
Japanese vehicle PP100: 20
Domestic vehicle PP100: 30

So yeah, Japanese vehicles still lead, but it doesn't mean domestics are still crap as you try to make them out to be. The difference is very small these days.
Old 09-08-2006 | 09:33 AM
  #412  
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Originally Posted by derrick
But seriously, how often do we hear of transmission failures in the GM line? (I am asking this question because the 2 GM cars my parents have owned as well as all the GMs my aunts & uncles in town never had tranny issues ... my folks had a 1979 Buick Regal 4.9L that I drove a couple of times and another one in the 60s ... can't remember which one since I wasn't born yet)
GM Hydramatics are among the best automatics in the world. They're so good that even BMW used them in a number of their cars awhile ago (5L40E). You'll still hear of tranny failure in GM cars though, but that has more to due with GM's cost structure and economics rather than transmission quality. In the past they tended to put in the weakest possible and cheapest tranny in terms of torque handling and just throw it in, when they could have spent a few bucks more and put in a better one that would have lasted the life of the vehicle easily. Like a 4T40/45E instead of the sturdier 4T65E. Or a 4T65E instead of a 4T80E. The good thing about GM Hydramatics is that they're dirt cheap to rebuild in comparison to a Honda. There are lots of shops out there that do it, and you can get performance rebuilds with different final drive ratios also.
Old 09-08-2006 | 10:08 AM
  #413  
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC
2006
Japanese vehicle PP100: 20
Domestic vehicle PP100: 30

So yeah, Japanese vehicles still lead, but it doesn't mean domestics are still crap as you try to make them out to be. The difference is very small these days.
So 50% more problems is a small number?
Old 09-08-2006 | 10:15 AM
  #414  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
All I am trying to say is, the domestic brands need to prove their reliability to me. In my personal bubble of vehicles that I deal with, they have not done so.
Using your illogical response, I am going to say that Lexus needs to prove their reliability. You need to think in a macro sense.

Please take a look at recent quality studies and you can easily see that over the past few years the American manfucturers have improved quality. You can either accept the data or blow it off, your choice.

Finally, Yes your heavily biased opinion isn't very valid. Either bring some hard factual evidence from a reputable source or leave it alone.
Old 09-08-2006 | 10:38 AM
  #415  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Using your illogical response, I am going to say that Lexus needs to prove their reliability. You need to think in a macro sense.

Please take a look at recent quality studies and you can easily see that over the past few years the American manfucturers have improved quality. You can either accept the data or blow it off, your choice.

Finally, Yes your heavily biased opinion isn't very valid. Either bring some hard factual evidence from a reputable source or leave it alone.
Why was my response illogical? It made sense to me. Maybe you can let me know which parts you're having trouble with and I will try to explain my position a little more clearly.

I thought Consumer Reports was a reputable resource, especially when SteVTEC mentioned earlier that it was?

Furthermore, what does my belief of domestic reliability have to do with this thread anyway?

Let's try to get this back on track with a simple question to you: Do you think these longer warranties will have no added cost to GM? If the answer is no, do you believe the added sales spurred by the increased warranties will offset the cost?
Old 09-08-2006 | 10:59 AM
  #416  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Why was my response illogical? It made sense to me. Maybe you can let me know which parts you're having trouble with and I will try to explain my position a little more clearly.
Ever taken a stats class? If so, you should know something about sample size. Look at your posting and it should be easy to spot your flawed logic.


I thought Consumer Reports was a reputable resource, especially when SteVTEC mentioned earlier that it was?
Ever read their Automotive reviews? I take anything that CR's says with a grain of salt. You won't get much information without an account, but this is THE source for trade information in the automotive industry: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

Furthermore, what does my belief of domestic reliability have to do with this thread anyway?
You started posting misinformation and various members tried to help you. I have a feeling it's a lost cause.

Let's try to get this back on track with a simple question to you: Do you think these longer warranties will have no added cost to GM? If the answer is no, do you believe the added sales spurred by the increased warranties will offset the cost?
Warranties always will add costs. If Lexus added another 2 years/24K to their warranties, it would cost them money. I do believe that the added sales will help recover some of the cost or maybe all depending how much padding there is built into each unit. We don't have the financials of a specific model, so who knows. This is a marketing move to try and help GM's image. GM wants the public to know that they build good products and they stand by them. I think it will work very well in the long run.
Old 09-08-2006 | 11:07 AM
  #417  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Warranties always will add costs. If Lexus added another 2 years/24K to their warranties, it would cost them money. I do believe that the added sales will help recover some of the cost or maybe all depending how much padding there is built into each unit. We don't have the financials of a specific model, so who knows. This is a marketing move to try and help GM's image. GM wants the public to know that they build good products and they stand by them. I think it will work very well in the long run.
Thank you. Now we're back on topic.

My previous posts were solely to reinforce my point that I believe the added costs of the warranties would not be offset by the increased sales. It seems you agree with GM and think it's a good financial move, so that's fine. We'll have differing opinions, but that's what opinions are for. If everyone had the same opinion, it would be a boring place. I just hate it when people seem to feel the need to change my opinion because it doesn't match theirs.
Old 09-08-2006 | 11:19 AM
  #418  
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Thank you. Now we're back on topic.

My previous posts were solely to reinforce my point that I believe the added costs of the warranties would not be offset by the increased sales. It seems you agree with GM and think it's a good financial move, so that's fine. We'll have differing opinions, but that's what opinions are for. If everyone had the same opinion, it would be a boring place. I just hate it when people seem to feel the need to change my opinion because it doesn't match theirs.
It's alright to have an opinion, but basing it on a few friends with cars is not very bright. All my friend's have had problems with cars at one point. Should I ride a bike instead because it had less mechanical parts that are likely to fail? Do some research of macro data and make your opinion. I don't think anyone is trying to change your opinion, but rather to make you look at the big picture, which is obvious you haven't.

I understand your point, but your point is based on the fact that you feel that GM products are unreliable and that they are in the shop for warranty more often than other makes. This was the case a few years back, but times have changed. GM is hoping that opinions change too, which they do. Look at Hyundai as a prime example.
Old 09-08-2006 | 11:44 AM
  #419  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
It's alright to have an opinion, but basing it on a few friends with cars is not very bright. All my friend's have had problems with cars at one point. Should I ride a bike instead because it had less mechanical parts that are likely to fail? Do some research of macro data and make your opinion. I don't think anyone is trying to change your opinion, but rather to make you look at the big picture, which is obvious you haven't.

I understand your point, but your point is based on the fact that you feel that GM products are unreliable and that they are in the shop for warranty more often than other makes. This was the case a few years back, but times have changed. GM is hoping that opinions change too, which they do. Look at Hyundai as a prime example.
I certainly look at stats, but at some level, every statistic is flawed and biased. I just put higher priority in what I see and interact with. The 10 or 20 domestic cars that I've had first-hand experience with in the last 5 years have all been below the quality of the Hondas and Toyotas that I have had experience with. If my friends and family start buying domestics that prove to be reliable, or if the Hondas and Toyotas in my circle become unreliable, I will re-evaluate my opinion. Someone's Mustang being reliable doesn't make my friend's Saturn any less shitty.

I wish GM all the best and sincerely hope they do become the quality leaders of the world. I mean that, I'm not just saying it for effect. The more competition we have, the better it is for consumers. Ultimately, I want to buy a car based on equipment, price, and style and never have to worry about something breaking.
Old 09-08-2006 | 03:22 PM
  #420  
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Originally Posted by derrick
But seriously, how often do we hear of transmission failures in the GM line? (I am asking this question because the 2 GM cars my parents have owned as well as all the GMs my aunts & uncles in town never had tranny issues ... my folks had a 1979 Buick Regal 4.9L that I drove a couple of times and another one in the 60s ... can't remember which one since I wasn't born yet)
I wonder if GM using 3 and 4 speeds forever makes a difference. Do they have data from the stone ages when these were new? I hope the new 6 speeds hold up, they're a big company and they are known for good trannys so I hope they didn't skimp on the new ones...
Old 09-11-2006 | 06:58 AM
  #421  
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Originally Posted by titan
Good shit GM. This is a great way to get over they're perceived problems.

Their problems are not perceived.

Take a look at car and drivers long term test of the Caddillac STS and they are reporting driveline problems at 50K in a car that cost as much as $70K

My father has a 2004 GMC Avalanche and it has 6K on it (yes that's right 6,000 miles) and that thing already rattles when you go over bumps

My mom has a 2003 Malibu and the edges of the glove box curl down away from the dash and the engine sounds like it has asthma when it gets above 4K
Old 01-20-2007 | 03:32 AM
  #422  
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GM Brings the Incentives - - By JAMIE LAREAU | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS - - Source: Autoweek

DETROIT - General Motors is telling auto dealers that it will unveil an incentive program today that will put customer cash on 2005 and 2006 models and offer more salesperson incentives under the Mark of Excellence program.

GM has not released details, but a memo to dealers this morning says GM plans to offer $750 bonus cash on all 2005 and 2006 models through Feb. 14. It also will offer a $200 salesperson bonus and a $50 sales manager bonus on all 2005 and 2006 models sold through January.

GM's regional dealer councils have recommended this sort of program to GM because sales are typically slow this time of year, says John Rogin, owner of Rogin Buick in Livonia, Mich. A program like this allows dealers to support sales staff during slow times, he adds.

"Cash on the hood to the sales staff moves the car," Rogin says. "I'm thrilled that they put the salesperson and the sales manager in the loop. It needs to be done more often and continually."

Rogin has only one 2005 model left and about four 2006s, but he said dealers in the Southeast have hundreds of 2006 models in inventory.
Old 01-20-2007 | 08:38 AM
  #423  
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2005 models?
Old 01-20-2007 | 09:05 AM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by biker
2005 models?
Nothing like buying a car that's worth 50% of what you're gonna pay for it as soon as you title it
Old 11-07-2007 | 09:01 AM
  #425  
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GM confirms massive losses



Damn those subprime mortages!

GM confirms massive losses
By Bernard Simon in Toronto
Financial Times
updated 9:42 a.m. ET, Wed., Nov. 7, 2007
General Motors slid to a massive third-quarter loss of $39bn, due mainly to a non-cash charge against future tax benefits and hefty losses sustained by a home-loan affiliate exposed to the troubled subprime mortgage market.

These setbacks more than offset improved results from the Detroit-based carmaker's automotive operations.

"We continue to see solid progress in the fundamentals of our automotive business", Rick Wagoner, chief executive, said. Mr Wagoner singled out GM's performance in emerging markets, but acknowledged that market conditions in North America remained "challenging".

Operating cash flow remained negative in the third quarter, with a $2.5bn outflow, down from a $3.9bn drain a year earlier.

GM, which is in a neck-and-neck contest with Toyota to maintain its 76-year position as the world's biggest carmaker, reported record third-quarter automotive revenues of $43.1bn, as well as record sales volumes of 2.39m vehicles.

GM said on Tuesday that it was writing down deferred-tax benefits by $39bn as a result of difficult business conditions in North America and Germany, and hefty losses at ResCap, the mortgage-lending arm of GMAC, the financial services group in which GM has a 49 per cent stake.

ResCap reported a third-quarter loss of $2.3bn, pushing GMAC's income down by $630m compared to a year earlier.

The third-quarter results include various other special items, including a $3.5bn after-tax gain from the sale of Allison Transmission, a maker of heavy-duty transmissions, and charges of $1.6bn in pension service costs.

Excluding special items, GM reported a third-quarter loss of $1.6bn, or $2.80 per share, compared with net income of $497 million, or 88 cents a share, a year earlier.

GM said that losses from continuing operations in North America narrowed to $247m from $660m, reflecting a more profitable vehicle mix, improved pricing and lower warranty costs, offset by lower volumes and higher material costs.

Losses in Europe, excluding special charges, widened to $90m from $39m, due mainly to the soft German car market and unfavourable currency movements.

Earnings in the Asia-Pacific region rose to $138m from $57m led by strong export growth at South Korea's GM Daewoo, a strong performance in China and improved earnings in India and Australia.

Earnings from Latin America, the Middle East and Africa almost doubled to a record of $340m. GM said sales volumes, pricing and vehicle mix had all improved. Third-quarter sales in the region surged by 22 per cent from a year earlier with new all-time highs set in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina and Egypt.

GM shares gained 16 cents on Tuesday to $36.16. But they slid sharply in after-hours trading following the announcement of the tax benefit writedown.

Copyright The Financial Times Ltd. All rights reserved.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21669163/
Old 11-07-2007 | 10:01 AM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by Steelers Wheels
:

Earnings from Latin America, the Middle East and Africa almost doubled to a record of $340m. GM said sales volumes, pricing and vehicle mix had all improved. Third-quarter sales in the region surged by 22 per cent from a year earlier with new all-time highs set in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina and Egypt.

]
Yep - GM does quite well in the Middle East - they might hate the Americans policies but don't mind driving that Chevy.

Saudi Arabia, where there's probably more Subarbans per capita than just about anywhere else.

Last edited by biker; 11-07-2007 at 10:04 AM.
Old 11-07-2007 | 11:23 AM
  #427  
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Originally Posted by biker
Yep - GM does quite well in the Middle East - they might hate the Americans policies but don't mind driving that Chevy.

Saudi Arabia, where there's probably more Subarbans per capita than just about anywhere else.
That's the weirdest thing I've heard.
Old 11-07-2007 | 11:44 AM
  #428  
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From: Edgewater, Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by biker
Yep - GM does quite well in the Middle East - they might hate the Americans policies but don't mind driving that Chevy.

Saudi Arabia, where there's probably more Subarbans per capita than just about anywhere else.
amazing I know europe loves fords. I wonder why its mostly americans that hate american cars
Old 11-07-2007 | 11:54 AM
  #429  
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
amazing I know europe loves fords. I wonder why its mostly americans that hate american cars
Because Europe gets the good Fords, while back in America we get Ford's crap.
Old 11-07-2007 | 12:00 PM
  #430  
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
Because Europe gets the good Fords, while back in America we get Ford's crap.


Night and day in quality and car performance...
Old 11-07-2007 | 02:11 PM
  #431  
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GM posts record loss after $39B charge

Kevin Krolicki and Jui Chakravorty

The Associated Press

Nov 07, 2007

DETROIT – General Motors Corp. posted a company record US$39-billion loss in the third quarter, as a charge involving unused tax credits brought an abrupt end to a string of three profitable quarters for the nation's largest automaker.

The loss reported today was one of the biggest quarterly corporate deficits ever. It sent GM's shares down nearly five per cent in early afternoon trading. Standard & Poor's downgraded GM shares from hold to sell.

GM (NYSE: GM) attributed most of the third-quarter loss to a $38.6-billion noncash charge for establishing a valuation allowance against accumulated deferred tax credits in the U.S., Canada and Germany. Accounting rules require that companies that expect to keep losing money cannot keep carrying deferred tax credits indefinitely and must write down their value.

GM also reported a loss of $757 million from its 49 per cent stake in GMAC Financial Services, due largely to losses at ResCap, GMAC's mortgage arm.

It was the second-worst quarterly net loss in U.S. corporate history under generally accepted accounting principles, said Howard Silverblatt, senior index analyst for Standard & Poor's. The loss was exceeded only by AOL Time Warner's $44.9 billion, or $10.04 per share loss, in the fourth quarter of 2002, he said.

GM chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner told WWJ-AM in Detroit that the accounting shift is not easy to explain but doesn't have a substantial impact on the business.

"I would stress no impact whatsoever on our cash position, no impact on our ability to use the tax offsets in the future, and from my perspective, really no change whatsoever in our outlook or optimism about the future of getting the business turned around," he said.

What might be considered more troubling for GM is continuing losses in its home market, North America, where it reported a net loss of $247 million without the charge for the latest quarter. That compares with a net loss of $667 million in the year-ago period.

The company reported an overall loss of $1.6 billion, or $2.80 per share, excluding special items. In addition to the accounting change, special items included a $3.5 billion after-tax gain on the $5.4 billion sale of Allison Transmission in August to Toronto-based Onex and the U.S.-based Carlyle Group.

The net loss contrasts with rival Toyota Motor Corp.'s announcement today of a net profit for the fiscal second quarter of 450.9 billion yen, or $4 billion. Toyota's profits were up 11 per cent over the year-ago period. Toyota and GM are vying for the title of world's largest automaker by sales this year.

GM's chief financial officer, Fritz Henderson, said the company is bullish about its new products and the money it will save from a new four-year contract with the United Auto Workers, which was approved by workers last month and will be reflected in future quarters. An agreement to put GM's retiree health-care liability into a union-run trust won't affect GM's books until 2010, but the automaker will see some benefits from the contract starting next year, he said.

"We feel good about our long-term prospects," he said.

But Henderson wouldn't predict when GM will return to profitability. He said the company faced numerous headwinds it didn't predict at the beginning of 2007, including the strength of the Canadian dollar, rapid escalation in the price of steel and other metals and a weaker than expected U.S. market. He also said GMAC has been hit by volatility in the mortgage market. ResCap has tightened its underwriting criteria and has moved away from the business responsible for those losses, he said, but the outlook for the unit is uncertain.

"At this point I think you have to say that the outlook for the mortgage industry in general is challenging," he said.

The company reported record third-quarter automotive revenue of $43.1 billion and record global sales for the quarter of 2.39 million cars and trucks.

Standard & Poor's analyst Efraim Levy said the near-term outlook for GM has worsened significantly due to reduced sales in the United States and Europe and weakness in the U.S. housing market. S&P cut GM's 12-month target price by $7 to $32.

But David Kudla, CEO of Mainstay Capital Management, said in a note to investors that the huge charge overshadows steady improvement at GM, which has reduced its structural costs and produced some recent runaway hits such as the Cadillac CTS Buick Enclave. The company posted a profit of $122 million in its global operations on the strength of sales in Asia and Latin America.

"International and emerging markets expansion has been very positive for the company, as it establishes a dominant position in large growing markets such as China and India," Kudla said.

The charge, announced after the stock market closed on Tuesday, surprised Wall Street analysts who had expected a relatively small loss excluding special items. Seventeen analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected the company to lose 25 cents per share without the charge. The company's overall net loss amounted to $68.85 per share, compared with a net loss of $147 million, or 26 cents per share, in the third quarter of last year.

Henderson said accounting rules required the company to take the noncash charge because its cumulative three-year quarterly earnings worsened despite some recent profitable quarters. GM lost $10.6 billion in 2005 and $2 billion last year. Henderson said GM's accounting team makes the three-year cumulative loss calculation every quarter and determined it would occur in the third quarter as profitable quarters in 2004 fell out of the three-year time period.

"Once you're in a three-year cumulative loss position, that evidence, as it's described in the accounting literature, is difficult to overcome," he said. "When you look at our near-term outlook, it's pretty challenging. Frankly our conclusion was we needed to do this. We didn't have a lot of discretion."

When the company becomes profitable, the tax benefits could still be used, Henderson said.

GM shares dropped $1.74, or 4.8 per cent, to $34.42, in morning trading today.
http://www.wheels.ca/article/32609
Old 11-07-2007 | 02:43 PM
  #432  
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From: YVR
Originally Posted by biker
Saudi Arabia, where there's probably more Subarbans per capita than just about anywhere else.
Of course, the Saudi's buy big-ass Suburbans for all sort of purposes, both good ones and bad ones. The good Saudi's use their big-ass SUV to ramp their way out through vehicles driven by potential kidnappers or attackers, and the bad Saudi's ramp their way through check points set up by security forces.
Old 11-07-2007 | 03:52 PM
  #433  
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And on the other side of the coin with Toyota...

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv...y/robNews/home

The Japanese auto maker has been flourishing as soaring gas prices boost the appeal of its gas-electric hybrid Prius and popular smaller models, such as the Camry and Corolla. Although sales were stagnant in its home market, Toyota sales were strong in North America, Europe, Asia and emerging overseas markets.
"First, it has succeeded in reducing costs at a time when material costs are rising. Second, its global sales are growing," said Tsuyoshi Mochimaru, auto analyst at Lehman Brothers in Tokyo.

Toyota's profit for the July-September rose to ¥450.9-billion ($4-billion), up 11 per cent from ¥405.7-billion in the same period the previous year. Quarterly sales also rose 11 per cent to ¥6.490-trillion ($57-billion) from ¥5.834-trillion.
As other auto makers rush to develop hybrids, Toyota has promised other experimental models such as plug-in hybrids and advanced batteries.
Old 11-08-2007 | 12:30 AM
  #434  
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From: St Simons Island, GA
I personally vow to never own a stupid hybrid. Ever.
Old 11-08-2007 | 09:44 AM
  #435  
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From: Chicagoland
Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
I personally vow to never own a stupid hybrid. Ever.

Old 06-03-2008 | 12:25 PM
  #436  
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General Motors: Trucks out, cars in

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors announced plans Tuesday to shut four truck and SUV plants that employ thousands of workers. It also said high gas prices are here to stay - and, with them, consumers' growing preference for more fuel-efficient vehicles.

At a news conference in Wilmington, Del., GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner announced plans to roll out more fuel-efficient vehicles, including approval to start the production process on a vehicle that can run gas-free for trips up to 40 miles.

But the plant-closing plans are a stunning admission from the nation's largest automaker that its long dependence on large SUVs and pickups is no longer a viable strategy for a company struggling to end losses from its North American operations.

The plants to be closed include two U.S. facilities: The Moraine, Ohio plant that builds midsize SUVs, such as the Chevrolet Trailblazer and GMC Envoy; and the Janesville, Wisc., assembly line that builds large SUVs such as the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban and GMC Yukon.

In addition, it plans to close a pickup plant in Oshawa, Canada, and a truck plant in Toluca, Mexico.

The Mexican plant that builds medium-duty trucks sold to businesses rather than consumers will close later this year. The other plants will close in 2009 and 2010, with sooner closings possible if sales do not improve. Each U.S. plant has about 2,500 employees.

iReport.com: Still driving a gas guzzler?
The company said it believes that high oil and gasoline prices will be the norm, and that prices are likely to go higher due to strong global demand for oil.

"These higher gasoline prices are changing consumer behavior and rapidly," said Wagoner. "We don't think this is a temporary spike or shift. We think it is permanent."

Goodbye Hummer Wagoner also said GM is looking at possibly selling its Hummer unit as part of a strategic review of the SUV brand based on military vehicles. The Hummer H3 mid-size SUV gets about 13 to 14 miles per gallon in city driving in the most recent EPA ratings. The H1 and H2 are larger vehicles on which EPA does not give mileage estimates.

The brand has become the symbol to many members of the public of a gas-guzzling large U.S. vehicle.

Hello Volt He also announced that GM has approved production of the Chevrolet Volt, a so-called plug-in hybrid vehicle that can run about 40 miles without any use of gasoline. The Volt will be built in GM's Hamtramck, Mich., plant and is due in showrooms by the end of 2010.

"We believe it's the biggest step yet in our industry's move away from its historic, nearly complete reliance upon petroleum to power vehicles," he said. "We believe the Volt is an important investment for the future of our company and our shareholders."

Ahead of the rollout of that new model, GM plans to increase production of some more fuel-efficient car models. It's adding a third shift at its Orion, Mich., plant to build more of the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6 models, as well as a third shift at a Lordstown, Ohio, plant that builds the compact Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 models.

It also plans a more fuel-efficient gasoline engine for its small car models that will get about 9 miles per gallon more than current GM engines in the segment.

The plans were announced ahead of GM's (GM, Fortune 500) annual meeting Tuesday in Wilmington. They followed similar plans unveiled last month by rival Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500), although Ford did not give details of plant closing plans.

About 19,000 U.S. hourly employees had already agreed to take buyout and retirement bonuses to leave the company in recent months, but it had originally planned to replace most of those workers with lower-wage new hires who were not due the same expensive benefit package.
hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllo! they just realized this?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/03/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes
Old 06-03-2008 | 12:26 PM
  #437  
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GM go back into your hole.
Old 06-03-2008 | 12:26 PM
  #438  
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From: Edgewater, Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by Black Tire
GM go back into your hole.
that was fast
Old 06-03-2008 | 12:31 PM
  #439  
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From: Southern California
The Chevy Volt rumored to be priced +40k....yea, this is gonna save GM.
Old 06-03-2008 | 01:29 PM
  #440  
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From: Little Rock, AR
^ nope a hybrid tahoe to the tune of 20 mph highway is gonna save em .... my bad, or will it be the new limited production corvette zr1 ... or the turbocharged cobalt ss


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