Ford: Mustang News
04-19-2012, 03:53 PM
#1121
Whats up with RDX owners?
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04-19-2012, 03:55 PM
#1122
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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04-19-2012, 04:49 PM
#1123
TQ > MPG
You guys do understand that the Mustang was offered with IRS in the 99-03 Cobra's, right?
It added weight, had issues with wheelhop, and a good amount of owners ended up swapping back to live rear axles.
Yes it rode slightly better on bad roads and probably was more predicatable in bumpy corners, but who gives a shit? Does the Camaro SS or Challenger R/T handle better than Mustang GT?? I highly doubt it. Its more about curb weight and F/R weight ratio.
Just a side note, you know the world-beating Corvette ZO6 & ZR1? Well it uses LEAF SPRINGS. Yes, the same spring style as a friggin pickup truck. Its not like IRS is the only answer to get a car to handle well.
It added weight, had issues with wheelhop, and a good amount of owners ended up swapping back to live rear axles.
Yes it rode slightly better on bad roads and probably was more predicatable in bumpy corners, but who gives a shit? Does the Camaro SS or Challenger R/T handle better than Mustang GT?? I highly doubt it. Its more about curb weight and F/R weight ratio.
Just a side note, you know the world-beating Corvette ZO6 & ZR1? Well it uses LEAF SPRINGS. Yes, the same spring style as a friggin pickup truck. Its not like IRS is the only answer to get a car to handle well.
04-19-2012, 04:55 PM
#1124
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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04-19-2012, 05:03 PM
#1125
The sizzle in the Steak
You guys do understand that the Mustang was offered with IRS in the 99-03 Cobra's, right?
It added weight, had issues with wheelhop, and a good amount of owners ended up swapping back to live rear axles.
Yes it rode slightly better on bad roads and probably was more predicatable in bumpy corners, but who gives a shit? Does the Camaro SS or Challenger R/T handle better than Mustang GT?? I highly doubt it. Its more about curb weight and F/R weight ratio.
Just a side note, you know the world-beating Corvette ZO6 & ZR1? Well it uses LEAF SPRINGS. Yes, the same spring style as a friggin pickup truck. Its not like IRS is the only answer to get a car to handle well.
It added weight, had issues with wheelhop, and a good amount of owners ended up swapping back to live rear axles.
Yes it rode slightly better on bad roads and probably was more predicatable in bumpy corners, but who gives a shit? Does the Camaro SS or Challenger R/T handle better than Mustang GT?? I highly doubt it. Its more about curb weight and F/R weight ratio.
Just a side note, you know the world-beating Corvette ZO6 & ZR1? Well it uses LEAF SPRINGS. Yes, the same spring style as a friggin pickup truck. Its not like IRS is the only answer to get a car to handle well.
Comparing a trucks leaf springs to the way the leaf spring is applied to the Vette is apples and oranges.
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civicdrivr (04-19-2012)
04-19-2012, 08:38 PM
#1126
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I never said otherwise.
All Im saying is this:
Ford made it well known that their engineers spent tons of time tuning the suspension on the new Mustang. They did an amazing job. Im not denying that.
But, hypothetically speaking, imagine what they could have done had they gone with an IRS.
The only reason I say this, and I really hate to use this as an example, but Top Gear had the GT500 and the Roush Mustang on a few years ago. Granted, these were last generation models. Despite the horsepower disadvantage, the Roush was still faster around the track.
*flamesuit : on for using Top Gear as an example
All Im saying is this:
Ford made it well known that their engineers spent tons of time tuning the suspension on the new Mustang. They did an amazing job. Im not denying that.
But, hypothetically speaking, imagine what they could have done had they gone with an IRS.
The only reason I say this, and I really hate to use this as an example, but Top Gear had the GT500 and the Roush Mustang on a few years ago. Granted, these were last generation models. Despite the horsepower disadvantage, the Roush was still faster around the track.
*flamesuit : on for using Top Gear as an example
Last edited by civicdrivr; 04-19-2012 at 08:42 PM.
04-20-2012, 02:53 AM
#1127
IRS is indeed better. But solid rear axle has key advantages.
It's what most Mustang enthusiasts want, and they'll cry foul despite the advantages of IRS. It's also cheaper, which I'm sure translates into better sales and profit margin. I doubt the average teenaged/twenty something knows or even cares that her Mustang has a live rear.
Only two advantages, but they makes a huge difference. The '12 GT already runs toe-to-toe with an M3 of similar vintage.... that's a statement that would have had enthusiasts pissing themselves laughing 20 years ago. The only sections it doesn't keep up in is the uneven and swift transitions. But IMO if they had a suspension package with a Watts link I'm sure the GT would even beat out the M3 around the track.
It's what most Mustang enthusiasts want, and they'll cry foul despite the advantages of IRS. It's also cheaper, which I'm sure translates into better sales and profit margin. I doubt the average teenaged/twenty something knows or even cares that her Mustang has a live rear.
Only two advantages, but they makes a huge difference. The '12 GT already runs toe-to-toe with an M3 of similar vintage.... that's a statement that would have had enthusiasts pissing themselves laughing 20 years ago. The only sections it doesn't keep up in is the uneven and swift transitions. But IMO if they had a suspension package with a Watts link I'm sure the GT would even beat out the M3 around the track.
04-20-2012, 08:10 AM
#1128
My first Avatar....
IRS is indeed better. But solid rear axle has key advantages.
It's what most Mustang enthusiasts want, and they'll cry foul despite the advantages of IRS. It's also cheaper, which I'm sure translates into better sales and profit margin. I doubt the average teenaged/twenty something knows or even cares that her Mustang has a live rear.
Only two advantages, but they makes a huge difference. The '12 GT already runs toe-to-toe with an M3 of similar vintage.... that's a statement that would have had enthusiasts pissing themselves laughing 20 years ago. The only sections it doesn't keep up in is the uneven and swift transitions. But IMO if they had a suspension package with a Watts link I'm sure the GT would even beat out the M3 around the track.
It's what most Mustang enthusiasts want, and they'll cry foul despite the advantages of IRS. It's also cheaper, which I'm sure translates into better sales and profit margin. I doubt the average teenaged/twenty something knows or even cares that her Mustang has a live rear.
Only two advantages, but they makes a huge difference. The '12 GT already runs toe-to-toe with an M3 of similar vintage.... that's a statement that would have had enthusiasts pissing themselves laughing 20 years ago. The only sections it doesn't keep up in is the uneven and swift transitions. But IMO if they had a suspension package with a Watts link I'm sure the GT would even beat out the M3 around the track.
All true. I really think that 90% of all Mustang buyers will never know, OR FEEL, the difference between an IRS or a live axle. The only way it will ever show up is when running the car at 9/10 or 10/10.
Most Mustang enthusiasts will bitch about the IRS, but they will be bitching because of theory, and the tradition of the set up, not because of their practical use.
04-21-2012, 07:33 PM
#1129
Senior Moderator
Try again. It doesnt use Leaf "SPRINGS" it uses just 1, It is a composite transverse spring that also acts as a sway bar. It is NOT the same style as a friggin pickup. there isnt one on each side of the car that connects to an axle
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civicdrivr (04-21-2012)
04-21-2012, 11:02 PM
#1130
TQ > MPG
I know that, just generalizing the same way people do about the live rear axle of the Mustang.
Most people have no idea the Corvette has anything even close to something like a "leaf spring", they just know it has IRS so it must handle good.
Again though, the Mustang HAD IRS, and it sucked (for the most part). I think I am along the same lines as most people out there that I would rather them put the R&D $$ into the drivetrain and PREVENTING weight gain. I'll wage they sell LOTS of $60k 650hp GT500's with the same basic rear suspension design as the V6. Just my
I think its more a vocal minority that complains about the rear end, namely magazines, TG, and bandwagon import/euro owners.
I didnt hear any of the BMW owners tell me my car had a crappy rear suspension design as I drove around them at the road course.
Most people have no idea the Corvette has anything even close to something like a "leaf spring", they just know it has IRS so it must handle good.
Again though, the Mustang HAD IRS, and it sucked (for the most part). I think I am along the same lines as most people out there that I would rather them put the R&D $$ into the drivetrain and PREVENTING weight gain. I'll wage they sell LOTS of $60k 650hp GT500's with the same basic rear suspension design as the V6. Just my
I think its more a vocal minority that complains about the rear end, namely magazines, TG, and bandwagon import/euro owners.
I didnt hear any of the BMW owners tell me my car had a crappy rear suspension design as I drove around them at the road course.
04-22-2012, 01:36 PM
#1131
To be fair I really liked the IRS Cobras. You could definitely tell the difference in the corners even when stock, wheel hop issues be damned. IRS is indeed heavier, more complicated and more expensive than a solid rear but the solid rear is a LOT of unsprung weight.
Though at the same time, you have the "antiquated", "crappy" live rear on the Mustang GT which runs even with an M3 around a track, then you have the GT500 with the same suspension that beats out a V10 R8.
Ultimately I don't think it will be a dealbreaker either way. The Mustang will still sell in droves regardless of what rear suspension design it has and what enthusiasts say. I still maintain that a Watts link would have helped quite a bit as well. Not saying that panhard rod is ineffective but the Watts helps immensely.
Though at the same time, you have the "antiquated", "crappy" live rear on the Mustang GT which runs even with an M3 around a track, then you have the GT500 with the same suspension that beats out a V10 R8.
Ultimately I don't think it will be a dealbreaker either way. The Mustang will still sell in droves regardless of what rear suspension design it has and what enthusiasts say. I still maintain that a Watts link would have helped quite a bit as well. Not saying that panhard rod is ineffective but the Watts helps immensely.
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civicdrivr (04-23-2012)
05-09-2012, 08:29 AM
#1132
Some dude
2015 Mustang rendered
Source:Inside Line
Is this the 2015 Ford Mustang? Close to it, at least that's what a Ford insider told us recently. Set to be released about two years from now on its 50th anniversary, the 2015 Mustang will be much closer to a "world car" than any Mustang before it.
What does that mean exactly? Well, obviously it means this Mustang will be exported to markets outside the U.S., but more importantly, it means that the next-generation Mustang will evolve into a performance car for varying tastes.
For one, it will be smaller in many ways. Most other markets prefer sports cars with a little less metal and a few more curves. That means a sleeker, less bulky Mustang that should weigh less and cheat the wind better. The Evos concept was a hint of that look, but we were assured that the current Mustang's long hood/short deck proportions will remain along with several signature Mustang design cues like rear-quarter windows and triple-lens taillamps.
Another big change will arrive out back. After years of making the most of the Mustang's straight axle rear end, the Mustang will finally move to an independent setup. This will go down much better with European customers who are used to the precise feel of fully independent rear suspension setups. It will still do just fine on the drag strip, though, along with improved manners at tracks with turns.
There will be less drastic changes under the hood as most of the current Mustang's offerings will likely carryover, at least initially. Ford may eventually switch the Mustang's base engine to a turbocharged four-cylinder that delivers better mileage and nearly the same horsepower as the current V6. From there, the current 5.0 V8 will remain in place so the Mustang's performance credentials are in good hands.
Expect to see the official unveil of the 50th Anniversary Ford Mustang at the 2014 New York Auto Show.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...d-mustang.html
What does that mean exactly? Well, obviously it means this Mustang will be exported to markets outside the U.S., but more importantly, it means that the next-generation Mustang will evolve into a performance car for varying tastes.
For one, it will be smaller in many ways. Most other markets prefer sports cars with a little less metal and a few more curves. That means a sleeker, less bulky Mustang that should weigh less and cheat the wind better. The Evos concept was a hint of that look, but we were assured that the current Mustang's long hood/short deck proportions will remain along with several signature Mustang design cues like rear-quarter windows and triple-lens taillamps.
Another big change will arrive out back. After years of making the most of the Mustang's straight axle rear end, the Mustang will finally move to an independent setup. This will go down much better with European customers who are used to the precise feel of fully independent rear suspension setups. It will still do just fine on the drag strip, though, along with improved manners at tracks with turns.
There will be less drastic changes under the hood as most of the current Mustang's offerings will likely carryover, at least initially. Ford may eventually switch the Mustang's base engine to a turbocharged four-cylinder that delivers better mileage and nearly the same horsepower as the current V6. From there, the current 5.0 V8 will remain in place so the Mustang's performance credentials are in good hands.
Expect to see the official unveil of the 50th Anniversary Ford Mustang at the 2014 New York Auto Show.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...d-mustang.html
05-09-2012, 09:00 AM
#1133
God I hope not, that is foul.
05-09-2012, 09:00 AM
#1134
My first Avatar....
Nice...but get the Blue Oval off the hood! 
05-09-2012, 09:07 AM
#1135
Some dude
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phee (05-09-2012)
05-09-2012, 11:19 AM
#1137
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
It looks like a catfish, but a hawt looking catfish.
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phee (05-09-2012)
05-09-2012, 11:21 AM
#1138
Moderator
Hmmmm, I'll be very interested to see the new design.
05-09-2012, 11:26 AM
#1139
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
The Mustang is my favorite American Muscle.
05-09-2012, 12:07 PM
#1140
My first Avatar....
If I get the 13 GT....maybe I'll be able to trade it for a 2nd MY 2015 design.
But the Blue Oval HAS to go.
btw...Car Talk on AZ >>>>>>>>>>>than any Mustang board.
05-09-2012, 12:09 PM
#1141
I shoot people
I see what direction Ford is headed... while I DO LOVE the 2013 Fusion, This? I dunno... will have to see the real deal when it's in production (vs rendering).
2013 Fusion
2013 Fusion
05-09-2012, 01:07 PM
#1143
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Seriously. It's a beast.
05-09-2012, 01:15 PM
#1144
TQ > MPG
I cant wait to see some real world numbers from the '13 GT500. 662hp off the showroom floor is crazy for a Mustang.
Last edited by Joe5.0; 05-09-2012 at 01:19 PM.
05-09-2012, 01:23 PM
#1145
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Agreed, less weight is always good. Better handling, better mpg, better acceleration. I doubt it means less $$$ though...... A mildly optioned GT is already mid 30's.
I cant wait to see some real world numbers from the '13 GT500. 662hp off the showroom floor is crazy for a Mustang.
I cant wait to see some real world numbers from the '13 GT500. 662hp off the showroom floor is crazy for a Mustang.
05-09-2012, 01:26 PM
#1146
My first Avatar....
05-09-2012, 01:32 PM
#1147
TQ > MPG
I still would buy a new mustang over anything else if I was looking for a performance car with 2 rows of seats, but I just wish it was a bit cheaper. They hold their value really well too. My dad's 2003 Cobra convertible still would sell for mid 20's in a heartbeat. The same 2003 CL Type-S with almost identical MSRP and mileage would be lucky to fetch $10k.....
05-09-2012, 01:38 PM
#1148
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
The M3 costs almost +$30k more than a Mustang GT.
05-09-2012, 01:49 PM
#1150
TQ > MPG
My point being that yes, the Mustang GT can pull similar numbers to the M3, but numbers arent EVERYTHING. I would NEVER pay the rediculous amount of $$ they want for a M3, but you cant say that the Mustang does EVERYTHING the same, but for $30k less.
05-09-2012, 01:51 PM
#1151
TQ > MPG
05-09-2012, 01:56 PM
#1152
Fahrvergnügen'd
Which is why I'm hoping the new Mustang gets an interior at least as good as a Focus ST ... It'll be light-years better than what's in there now and good enough that people will likely not be able to use it as an excuse for why they'd never buy one ...
05-09-2012, 02:04 PM
#1153
TQ > MPG
I think theres only so much Ford can do when the same car sells for mid 20's as a stripped out V6. Not alot of profit margin on that car if its got a luxo interior to rival Euro stuff.
Compared to cars of the same class (Camaro, Challenger, 370Z, Genesis), I think the Mustang is at or near the top in terms of interior and overall quality.
Still cant make me justify a $600 payment for a Mustang when mine is paid off, but for everyone else its pretty much the best combination of speed, quality, and $$.
Compared to cars of the same class (Camaro, Challenger, 370Z, Genesis), I think the Mustang is at or near the top in terms of interior and overall quality.
Still cant make me justify a $600 payment for a Mustang when mine is paid off, but for everyone else its pretty much the best combination of speed, quality, and $$.
05-09-2012, 02:11 PM
#1154
אני עומד עם ישראל
LOL Car Talk on AZ>>>>> any board.
The Mustang boards didn't really annoy me, granted I haven't been on one in years, but they were much more knowledgeable about cars than the import boards I've been on.
05-09-2012, 02:35 PM
#1155
My first Avatar....
Do it brah! Lemme drive each one before you make the switch though!
LOL Car Talk on AZ>>>>> any board.
The Mustang boards didn't really annoy me, granted I haven't been on one in years, but they were much more knowledgeable about cars than the import boards I've been on.
LOL Car Talk on AZ>>>>> any board.
The Mustang boards didn't really annoy me, granted I haven't been on one in years, but they were much more knowledgeable about cars than the import boards I've been on.
You're in Man!The Mustang boards have knowledgable people on there. But holy cow if you say ANTyHING that can be remotely thought of as a critiscism of "their" car. The fanboy-ism is off the fawkin charts in Mustang world.
05-09-2012, 02:46 PM
#1157
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I said it puts up similar performance number with a M3 that costs +$30k more.
So, I think the Mustang offers SO MUCH for its pricing tag.
Do you not get that?
Because in your first post regarding this issue, you made it sound like Ford is charging too much $ for its car, which I strongly disagreed.
05-09-2012, 02:53 PM
#1158
My first Avatar....
I don't care what brand of fanboy they are....if they get defensive because someone...
@ "outsider".... makes a comment about "their" car....then they're just fanboys, not car enthusiasts. People need to be able to see the flaws that their cars have.
Oh...btw. I have a 3G TL and I don't go in there anymore.
Last edited by pttl; 05-09-2012 at 02:56 PM.
05-09-2012, 03:12 PM
#1159
TQ > MPG
When did I say that a Mustang GT does EVERYTHING the same?
I said it puts up similar performance number with a M3 that costs +$30k more.
So, I think the Mustang offers SO MUCH for its pricing tag.
Do you not get that?
Because in your first post regarding this issue, you made it sound like Ford is charging too much $ for its car, which I strongly disagreed.
I said it puts up similar performance number with a M3 that costs +$30k more.
So, I think the Mustang offers SO MUCH for its pricing tag.
Do you not get that?
Because in your first post regarding this issue, you made it sound like Ford is charging too much $ for its car, which I strongly disagreed.
I dont like that the Mustang is close to $40k with some mid-level options, but thats my opinion. If you think its worth $40k thats great, I hope you go buy one. They are built about an hour from my house.
05-09-2012, 03:20 PM
#1160
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Not sure why you're getting argumentative? Have you not seen my username or cars in my signature?
I dont like that the Mustang is close to $40k with some mid-level options, but thats my opinion. If you think its worth $40k thats great, I hope you go buy one. They are built about an hour from my house.
I dont like that the Mustang is close to $40k with some mid-level options, but thats my opinion. If you think its worth $40k thats great, I hope you go buy one. They are built about an hour from my house.
I'm so hungry right now.