So you guys are saying that Tesla’s lead over the others is over and next year Tesla would find it very difficult to sell over a million cars, right….?
Wrong.
I say that point has not been reached yet and all Tesla products will continue to sell like hot cakes even with the current state of build quality and service issues. By the end of next year Tesla would be approaching two million units per year and it will continue to ramp up. There would still not be any unsold inventory and there would be some wait time to order cars, but much shorter than now (unlike the others).
Don’t ask me for data again. .
If you don’t believe me, just wait another year and you will believe it. LOL.

 

No one said that.

You asked a question, made up your own answer to that question, then refuted the answer you came up with.

 

 

Comfy...

 

 

Of course we'll ask for data because you just make shit up.

Anyway, you realize that Tesla can build at 100% capacity, sell a million units, whatever and that still doesn't mean they've cornered the automotive market right? I mean Tesla is effectively sold out for Q3 and building as fast as they can but RIGHT NOW so is literally every other automaker. Want a Bronco (which is very much the opposite of a Tesla)? One year wait or more. Jeep Wrangler? 4 months. Kia Telluride? roflwaffles good luck. Tahoe? Same. Subaru? Same. BMW M3? 3-4 months and it's fugly.

The other part of this is that some of these makers sell more of ONE MODEL in ONE MARKET than Tesla does globally across all of its cars.

So, with all of that said...where the data to support your claim?

 

I agree with your statements about legacy outselling Tesla with only one model. They are sitting on top of a bill not realizing that the only way forward is downhill.
The point that you are missing (intentionally) is that Tesla is literally starting from zero. Every single car (well most) sold by Tesla is a permanent loss of the ICE car market.
My prediction is that the premium / luxury ICE car market will see a 30-40% reduction by end of next year and that share would be taken by Tesla.
You want data.. wait till end of next year.

 

Going by your same logic, these ICE cars (single models which outsell Tesla significantly) will increase their market share and production by 50-100% by end of next year…, right….????

 

Want to make a bet on that?

Do you understand what market share even is? You know that Tesla's market share is going down right? Cars like the ioniq and MachE are making a dent in it. I've seen a bunch of new ID4's rolling around town recently too.

 

Ironically most of the Tesla owners I know are either switching back to ICE or planning to. Boss ditched the Model X P100D for a much much slower Bentley (i know this does not make any sense to Tesla fanboys) and co worker is ditching his Model 3 for a X5 45e since it now has i6turbo and 50 miles range, which is more than enough for his daily commute without using any gas.

They wanted to try it and they did and that is that.

 

^ Bentayga

I still think the gas + ev makes the most sense for a lot of people.

If the Volt had been better looking, I think that concept makes a lot of sense. Low RPM/idle ICE to power the EV. A guy on another forum I'm on has/had a Volt & loved it. I forget his MPG numbers but they had done a shocking total mileage on a very small total gallons of fuel.
Had they just made the Volt an EV trim of the Malibu, I think it might have sold better, if the made people aware that it existed.

Hopefully the rotary+EV MX30 does well.

 

 

I’m glad you guys are enjoying it.

 

Yah i thought Porsche's option list was expensive, until i ordered the Bentayga.... the wheels alone cost as much as a car... 2 small foldable tables in the backseat is my annual property tax...

I think for my next car. i would try some kind of hybrid.... not the type that save fuel.. fuck that... but the idea of having 50 EV miles is pretty interesting to me... if i dont like it, i just dont use it...

The 2021 M340i is a 48v mild hybrid. While some ppl say it is only for the stop/go feature. But after owning it for a while, it is definitely more than that. It actually cruises to a stop at very low speed and you can feel the E-power boost during normal acceleration. it is a lot more smoother than a traditional ICE engine.... and it has an E boost feature when you WOT... So i am getting a taste of the E-life...

 

That sounds great. Finally onowindoo is starting to get electrified.

 

Sounds like the x53 series AMGs with the I6T + hybrid assist.
I'd be curious to try it & see how they drive.

Our controller just went from a E60 535i to a (I think) G20 M340i.
I'll have to get him to let me take it out. He said one of our VPs drove it & thought it was quicker than his G30 540i MSport. Not surprising since the G30 has quite the weight disadvantage & something like 50hp less.

 

No one here is against EV... Most of us are only against extremism propaganda

 

yah same concept.

Under normal to light acceleration, you could feel the gas pedal/power delivery to be "sliding" like the smoothness you get from driving an EV.. Obviously, not quite the same.
under WOT, you would see a Eboost sign but you dont really feel much of the electricity since the ICE engine is significantly stronger.

More importantly it eliminated or "filled in" the turbo lag in most of the situations .. at least compare to F30...

 

My Lexus 450h will go "EV Mode" for short distances at low speeds. When you start the car, the engine doesn't start. It's EV for maybe the first 20-30 seconds then the engine starts. Even at 45-55 mph the engine can shut off and hold speed on electric alone. Driving around my neighborhood or parking lots is usually all electric too. It's pretty cool.

I'll be in the market in about 4 years - I'd really like to see what the BMW i4 is all about. It's my commuter so electric would be practical. My wife's car could be for long trips. Although I think solid state batteries are the thing to wait for, so we'll see.

 

The 450h is a real hybrid. Mine is just a wannabe with a hint of it. I could see the battery in the trunk (There are 2, 1 traditional battery on the side and 1 extra where the spare is). When i start the car, it gives a loud roar that my F30 didn't have much of. That makes me smile.. dont think i can do full EV... need my noise

 

You don't need noise when you hit the pedal and engage warp drive lol.

In any case, EV makes a lot of sense once you start driving it around town. So good for routine short to moderate trips.

FWIW, I absolutely did not buy an EV for the fuel savings or environmental BS that goes with it. I bought it because it's bonkers fast and outperforms everything in its price class and probably even one higher than that.

 

F30 340 is already faster than G30 540i... and i can tell you that M340i will blow the door off of F30 340i at anyspeed....it is almost a full sec in 1/4 difference between the 2.
They feel like they are different cars even they both have B58... It is still amazing to think an regular 3 series is already hitting low low 12s in 1/4.....

Of course Tesla > all.

 

nope, i need my noise... i am actually debating if i should install the BMW performance Exhaust on it.....Morrre loud!

 

Here’s one for the dealership lovers. They just decided to charge ten years worth of lost service revenue to the documentation fee.

I’m sure it must be an error. Wouldn’t it be….?

 

LOL at y’all who say $10k for FSD is a waste but defend dealers gouging customers, because fuck you that’s why

 

Who here is defending dealers that tack on outrageous fees?

 

LMAO at Sam trying to say that Tesla increasing their prices because the cost of raw materials have increased is the same as being gouged by the dealer.

was that another one of his legendary “factual” posts that was supposed to own me with its logic!?

 

No one supports dealerships gouging consumers.

 

I think Stunna is having a mental break. Sam is living in his head rent free.

 

Bottom line is, the dealership model is antiquated and must go. This is the modern age where everyone has the right to buy products without and deceit or middleman involvement.
Yeah, I get that some want to promote local businesses, but I don’t want to give a significant share of my hard earned money to someone else while buying a product. Doing servicing at a dealership is fine, but they should have no exclusive right to sell cars. If they really make value to some customers, then they can continue to support the middleman.

 

Lol

 

If only there were multiple independent dealerships throughout this country that you could choose to do business with. I guess the only way forward is to pay a flat rate with zero negotiation to a massive corporation that may or may not change the price of or decontent said product on a whim with no notice, unless you follow said corporations CEO on Twitter.

 

The market with competition will stabilize that price (if that competition ever arrives… ).

 

The competition exists. Tesla is raising prices because they're losing market share and their competition is no longer purchasing as many regulatory credits from them because they simply don't need to.

Follow the breadcrumbs.

 

Tesla is raising prices simply because they can. There’s no viable competition that exists right now (ask Sam if you don’t believe me) and they know it. People will continue to buy Tesla cars even at slightly higher prices.
Also they probably want to avoid the fallout of raising prices later (in case the EV bill passes) as customers and government won’t be happy if manufacturers simply raise prices to indirectly siphon off the EV credit.

Unfotunately the competition is not at a stage where they can raise prices and get away with it. As it is they are struggling and if they raise prices it’ll be dead end for them.

 

Quote:

price gouging

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging​​​​​​​

​​​​​​​

 

You might like this then.

 

Agree.

I don't support it, but the only thing anyone can do is vote with their wallet. Don't buy the car, or refuse to pay the markup unless they remove it. I just don't care if people do - it's their money, their decision. But that's not endorsement of the dealers doing it. I'd walk away over any mark up.

When I sold Acuras back in the dark ages, you could get a better deal (or no deal) just based on color. Green Legends were very rare, and we had a ton of gold ones. If you wanted the green one you paid full MSRP. They'd deal on the gold ones. Dealerships will always charge for whatever they can get away with. The only way to stop it is don't let them.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Louder

I don't support it, but the only thing anyone can do is vote with their wallet. Don't buy the car, or refuse to pay the markup unless they remove it. I just don't care if people do - it's their money, their decision. But that's not endorsement of the dealers doing it. I'd walk away over any mark up.

This!

 

Huh... Sounds almost like those middlemen you dislike so much...