Ford: Mach-E News
Sanest Florida Man
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 45,850
Likes: 11,669
From: Florida
Bad software is turning some Mustang Mach-Es into ‘electric bricks’
Affected owners need a dealer to fix it
Charging is a common concern with electric vehicles. But some owners of the brand-new Mustang Mach-E have run into a peculiar problem: their electric SUVs won’t start even when the main battery pack is full.
That’s because, The Verge has learned, there’s a problem with some early Mustang Mach-E SUVs that involves how the much smaller 12-volt battery gets charged. It’s the latest in a growing line of small issues that have come to light during the rollout of Ford’s first long-range electric car.
As is the case in other electric cars, the Mustang Mach-E keeps its 12-volt lead-acid battery topped up by essentially sipping power from the much larger lithium-ion battery pack. Based on owners’ accounts across multiple forum threads, including one who spoke to The Verge, the problem is this stops happening whenever the Mustang Mach-E is plugged in to charge up the larger battery pack.
That is especially an issue for owners in areas with cold weather, as Ford encourages them to leave their Mustang Mach-Es plugged in so the SUVs can use power from the grid to warm up before driving.
FORD SAYS A “SMALL NUMBER” OF VEHICLES ARE AFFECTED
The 12-volt battery powers many of the Mustang Mach-E’s systems (since the larger battery pack is high-voltage), and so when it dies, the electric SUV cannot be started. When this happens, owners have reported the FordPass app says the vehicle is in “deep sleep” mode. Some forum members have started referring to it as the “electric brick” problem.
Ford recently filed a technical service bulletin with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that confirms the problem has to do with the software on the powertrain control module. Ford wrote that this only affects Mustang Mach-E SUVs built on or before February 3rd, meaning it’s possible that dozens are affected. (Ford would only say that a “small number” of the nearly 7,000 Mustang Mach-Es delivered in the first three months of the year have the issue.)
Right now, those owners cannot get the fix via an over-the-air update. The company said in a statement that they’ll have to bring their Mustang Mach-Es to a dealer:
We are aware that a small number of Mustang Mach-E owners have had their 12V battery reach a low voltage condition. We proactively worked with early owners experiencing this issue to identify the root cause and a fix. In the rare instances where this still occurs, customers can now contact their local EV-certified Ford dealer to have the matter resolved.
Ford did tell The Verge that the problem will be fixable via wireless update “later this year” and that Mustang Mach-Es currently coming off the line should not be affected.
It is possible to jump the 12-volt battery, just as you would jump-start an internal combustion car. But it’s not nearly as straightforward, especially because the battery is located behind the Mustang Mach-E’s front trunk, and the hood’s electronic latch is powered by the low-voltage battery.
IT’S POSSIBLE TO JUMP-START THE MUSTANG MACH-E, BUT IT’S NOT EASY
To first open the front trunk then, owners have to open a panel in the front bumper that contains two leads, which can be used to jump the front trunk’s electronic hood latch. Then they have to pull back a panel underneath the hood to find the battery — though even at this point, some owners have had trouble accessing the leads on the 12-volt battery and have cut through the vinyl to more easily jump-start the battery.
Ford offers free roadside assistance with the Mustang Mach-E, too, so owners have this as an option if they need to get their electric SUVs towed to a dealer. The roadside assistance is also supposed to include 12-volt battery jump starts, according to the owner manual.
That’s because, The Verge has learned, there’s a problem with some early Mustang Mach-E SUVs that involves how the much smaller 12-volt battery gets charged. It’s the latest in a growing line of small issues that have come to light during the rollout of Ford’s first long-range electric car.
As is the case in other electric cars, the Mustang Mach-E keeps its 12-volt lead-acid battery topped up by essentially sipping power from the much larger lithium-ion battery pack. Based on owners’ accounts across multiple forum threads, including one who spoke to The Verge, the problem is this stops happening whenever the Mustang Mach-E is plugged in to charge up the larger battery pack.
That is especially an issue for owners in areas with cold weather, as Ford encourages them to leave their Mustang Mach-Es plugged in so the SUVs can use power from the grid to warm up before driving.
FORD SAYS A “SMALL NUMBER” OF VEHICLES ARE AFFECTED
The 12-volt battery powers many of the Mustang Mach-E’s systems (since the larger battery pack is high-voltage), and so when it dies, the electric SUV cannot be started. When this happens, owners have reported the FordPass app says the vehicle is in “deep sleep” mode. Some forum members have started referring to it as the “electric brick” problem.
Ford recently filed a technical service bulletin with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that confirms the problem has to do with the software on the powertrain control module. Ford wrote that this only affects Mustang Mach-E SUVs built on or before February 3rd, meaning it’s possible that dozens are affected. (Ford would only say that a “small number” of the nearly 7,000 Mustang Mach-Es delivered in the first three months of the year have the issue.)
Right now, those owners cannot get the fix via an over-the-air update. The company said in a statement that they’ll have to bring their Mustang Mach-Es to a dealer:
We are aware that a small number of Mustang Mach-E owners have had their 12V battery reach a low voltage condition. We proactively worked with early owners experiencing this issue to identify the root cause and a fix. In the rare instances where this still occurs, customers can now contact their local EV-certified Ford dealer to have the matter resolved.
Ford did tell The Verge that the problem will be fixable via wireless update “later this year” and that Mustang Mach-Es currently coming off the line should not be affected.
It is possible to jump the 12-volt battery, just as you would jump-start an internal combustion car. But it’s not nearly as straightforward, especially because the battery is located behind the Mustang Mach-E’s front trunk, and the hood’s electronic latch is powered by the low-voltage battery.
IT’S POSSIBLE TO JUMP-START THE MUSTANG MACH-E, BUT IT’S NOT EASY
To first open the front trunk then, owners have to open a panel in the front bumper that contains two leads, which can be used to jump the front trunk’s electronic hood latch. Then they have to pull back a panel underneath the hood to find the battery — though even at this point, some owners have had trouble accessing the leads on the 12-volt battery and have cut through the vinyl to more easily jump-start the battery.
Ford offers free roadside assistance with the Mustang Mach-E, too, so owners have this as an option if they need to get their electric SUVs towed to a dealer. The roadside assistance is also supposed to include 12-volt battery jump starts, according to the owner manual.
Sanest Florida Man
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 45,850
Likes: 11,669
From: Florida
Didn’t expect to be back, but walked on the Mustang Mach E because dealer surprised me with a “market price adjustment.” : electricvehicles (reddit.com)
For comparison:
We had picked out the car, brought a quote on our trade-in from CarMax, and my own financing offer. Dealer could get me a better interest rate, so that’s as good, but the payments didn’t seem to add up. So I asked for the breakdown. First they had “forgotten” to include the trade-in, and then said they couldn’t match CarMax. (Salesman had said they would). Fine. I’ll take it to CarMax.
Then they did the “did your salesman talk to you about pricing?” and admitted they marked the car up $5k. But there was a $1600 rebate. I told them I wouldn’t pay one dollar of markup. They added another $3000 rebate, bringing the net markup to $400. So I told them we were out and started walking. They tried really hard to get us to stay, where I began getting pissy. They made a last call to the GM, who wouldn’t let go of the $400, so I walked.
Driving from Riverside to Culver City in rush hour (well over an hour) to get this treatment was aggressively not worth it. I still have one reserved at a dealership that promises to be better behaved, but I’m now reconsidering my options.
Just needed to vent a bit.
UPDATE: After the meltdown at Airport Marina Ford, my wife found another car with her specs on AutoTrader at Huntington Beach Ford, which I recalled from other research didn’t do Marker Value Adjustments. We called in, told them to get me the OTD price. It comes it at 60k, versus the expected 58k. After a little poking he explains it has 2k of “dealer extras.” I tell him to take those off. “Well, if you came here to present your offer I could consider it.” I explain that I was in Culver City yesterday getting boned, and I wasn’t interested in driving to the ocean again without this sorted. He’s “going back to his manager.”
Just because they keep showing up in the comments, I’ll add we explicitly don’t want a Tesla. I’m happy you like yours. I don’t want one.
UPDATE 2: Huntington Beach Ford ghosted me after I told them I would not pay for any dealer extras. I check AutoTrader and find another one on the Citrus Motors Ford lot. I check the Ford website, and the order section indicates they don't do markups, but their MSRP looks almost 3000 high. I call them, and they confirm that they are marking up all Mach E's. Still no response from Ford or Mike Levine on Twitter here.
UPDATE 3: This was the car at Airport Marina Ford. Notice that the listing does NOT show a markup. Also, when they presented the first offer, they ONLY showed the monthly payments. It was not until I asked for the OTD price that explained they have a markup.
This was the car at Huntington Beach Ford. They at least say "Call for price."
This is the car at Citrus Motors Ford. It shows with a higher MSRP, rather than listing it as a markup.
Then they did the “did your salesman talk to you about pricing?” and admitted they marked the car up $5k. But there was a $1600 rebate. I told them I wouldn’t pay one dollar of markup. They added another $3000 rebate, bringing the net markup to $400. So I told them we were out and started walking. They tried really hard to get us to stay, where I began getting pissy. They made a last call to the GM, who wouldn’t let go of the $400, so I walked.
Driving from Riverside to Culver City in rush hour (well over an hour) to get this treatment was aggressively not worth it. I still have one reserved at a dealership that promises to be better behaved, but I’m now reconsidering my options.
Just needed to vent a bit.
UPDATE: After the meltdown at Airport Marina Ford, my wife found another car with her specs on AutoTrader at Huntington Beach Ford, which I recalled from other research didn’t do Marker Value Adjustments. We called in, told them to get me the OTD price. It comes it at 60k, versus the expected 58k. After a little poking he explains it has 2k of “dealer extras.” I tell him to take those off. “Well, if you came here to present your offer I could consider it.” I explain that I was in Culver City yesterday getting boned, and I wasn’t interested in driving to the ocean again without this sorted. He’s “going back to his manager.”
Just because they keep showing up in the comments, I’ll add we explicitly don’t want a Tesla. I’m happy you like yours. I don’t want one.
UPDATE 2: Huntington Beach Ford ghosted me after I told them I would not pay for any dealer extras. I check AutoTrader and find another one on the Citrus Motors Ford lot. I check the Ford website, and the order section indicates they don't do markups, but their MSRP looks almost 3000 high. I call them, and they confirm that they are marking up all Mach E's. Still no response from Ford or Mike Levine on Twitter here.
UPDATE 3: This was the car at Airport Marina Ford. Notice that the listing does NOT show a markup. Also, when they presented the first offer, they ONLY showed the monthly payments. It was not until I asked for the OTD price that explained they have a markup.
This was the car at Huntington Beach Ford. They at least say "Call for price."
This is the car at Citrus Motors Ford. It shows with a higher MSRP, rather than listing it as a markup.
For comparison:
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; Apr 13, 2021 at 01:13 PM.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
So these people did not expect a dealer mark up on the first offerings of a new model with a ton of buzz? I hate dealer markups like most everyone, but I'm not surprised by them either. Not like its a new practice.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
Since when is markup a surprise on a highly anticipated new product?
I was shopping for Maybach GLS600 for my boss as his Model X replacement a few months ago and 2 local dealers wanted $100k as markup... Yes $100,000 markup on a freaking Mercedes and the car was only $170k. The lowest one was $30k mark or 20% of base MSRP.
I was shopping for Maybach GLS600 for my boss as his Model X replacement a few months ago and 2 local dealers wanted $100k as markup... Yes $100,000 markup on a freaking Mercedes and the car was only $170k. The lowest one was $30k mark or 20% of base MSRP.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
Then 6 months later, they will just lower their MSRP aka remove the markup when the market hype dies down... basically exactly what Tesla did.
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 17,753
Likes: 6,973
From: Minnesnowta
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
Here's a thought - if someone doesn't like it, buy something else. Nothing fixes dealer markups like no sales. And if people want to pay it, well good for them.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
Here's a thought - if someone doesn't like it, buy something else. Nothing fixes dealer markups like no sales. And if people want to pay it, well good for them.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
Sounds familiar?
The only problem is these 2 dont even own Tesla ...
2014 RDX AWD Tech
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 355
Here's a thought - if someone doesn't like it, buy something else. Nothing fixes dealer markups like no sales. And if people want to pay it, well good for them.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
I bought a home 12 months ago in a very large new development. I was talking to the builder about the recent large spike in home prices. He said the builder will keep dialing up the prices until sales start to stall. That's how they find the upper limit. I suspect cars are no different - they will up the price until sales slow. As long as people are willing to pay what they ask, it will keep going up. Dealers will mark up until they don't sell. So just wait or buy something else if folks don't like it. It's not like owning a EV is life or death.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
There is a reason they are called stealership. How naive are you? Better/more virtuous side???? Dafuq.... are we talking about car dealerships or Monk Temple?Markup is VERY common... it is pretty much guaranteed on every new hyped up car when they were first introduced.
Telluride is still selling at $4K over MSRP even after 3 years of its introduction.. If that is what the buyers are willing to pay, then that is what the dealer is willing to sell.
Free market FTW.
2014 RDX AWD Tech
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 355
So the question comes back to who are you willing to pay more to (I mean the mark up for hot products).
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 17,753
Likes: 6,973
From: Minnesnowta
So the question comes back to who are you willing to pay more to (I mean the mark up for hot products).
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
I don't care who I'm paying more to. Paying more is paying more. If the manufacturer didn't bake in the appropriate profit margin to properly fund R&D then that's not my problem. Similarly, if a dealership can get a few extra grand out of people then that's good for them.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
So the question comes back to who are you willing to pay more to (I mean the mark up for hot products).
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
Are you willing to pay the manufacturer or are willing to pay the middleman. We have been through this before.
If you’re paying more to the manufacturer (Tesla or others who sell online), then you can be reasonably sure that it’ll be used by them for R&D and hopefully improved products and that eventually comes back to the consumer.
If you are paying into the middleman’s pocket, then it’s your guess what he’ll do with it.
WTF are you talking about.... why does that even matter? What does " reasonably sure" mean? Does it mean "I think or I hope"? cuz that means nothing in the reality.
You pay more means you pay more. That is the end of it. Whether it goes to R&D or Elon's pocket or the middleman's pocket is none of your business.
If you dont agree with where the $ goes, then dont buy the car or dont pay the mark up.
No one has a gun to anyone's head to to pay any markup. It is your choice.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
You are, frankly, delusional at this point. Just stop with the Tesla thing. For someone who doesn't even own one, you are so far up Elon's ass that you must be suffocating by now.
I don't care who I'm paying more to. Paying more is paying more. If the manufacturer didn't bake in the appropriate profit margin to properly fund R&D then that's not my problem. Similarly, if a dealership can get a few extra grand out of people then that's good for them.
I don't care who I'm paying more to. Paying more is paying more. If the manufacturer didn't bake in the appropriate profit margin to properly fund R&D then that's not my problem. Similarly, if a dealership can get a few extra grand out of people then that's good for them.
Frankly, if i must pay more and if i had to choose my local dealership aka local business or Elon' ass? i would choose my local business every time.
If they dont exist, i would have to go really far for service.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
I totally agree with you here. My only point here is that by doing blatant mark ups against the apparent exhorting by manufacturer, Ford dealerships are simply exposing themselves to the public and in a way digging their own grave. If they are supposed to protect the consumer somehow, these acts don't show them in good light. They should somehow show their better / more virtuous side. As you said, the market will decide the price and if people are buying them, good. Hopefully that'll last.
2014 RDX AWD Tech
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 355
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,432
Likes: 637
From: Orlando, Fl
Biker, who is certain Stunna will find the very first case of a Mach-E death caused by Pilot 360.
Last edited by biker; May 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM.
Sanest Florida Man
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 45,850
Likes: 11,669
From: Florida
Doesn't disable when the driver unbuckles the seatbelt (AP does), driver monitoring camera doesn't work (which would be a good substitute for seatbelt monitoring) even though the hardware is installed, doesn't disable itself permanently when the driver doesn't turn the wheel (AP disables after 3 strikes), doesn't make a chime noise when enabling or disabling copilot steering (AP does)so if you miss the brief animation on screen when when it disables while going 80mph down the highway and you think it's in control 
you and your family, doesn't display the cars around you on screen (AP does) so the driver knows what the car is seeing and can confirm that copilot is functioning correctly, any sounds it makes are very quiet, AP sounds are loud and made to alert the driver or even wake up a driver that's fallen asleep.
So if you were to fall asleep will using copilot it wouldn't disable itself and pull over to the side of the road after you took your hands off the wheel, any alerts it made probably wouldnt be loud enough to wake you up. You could even unbuckle the seatbelt and climb into the back and it wouldn't care, as long as you put a weight on the wheel
Weird that Consumer Reports didn't notice this during their review
you and your family, doesn't display the cars around you on screen (AP does) so the driver knows what the car is seeing and can confirm that copilot is functioning correctly, any sounds it makes are very quiet, AP sounds are loud and made to alert the driver or even wake up a driver that's fallen asleep.So if you were to fall asleep will using copilot it wouldn't disable itself and pull over to the side of the road after you took your hands off the wheel, any alerts it made probably wouldnt be loud enough to wake you up. You could even unbuckle the seatbelt and climb into the back and it wouldn't care, as long as you put a weight on the wheel
Weird that Consumer Reports didn't notice this during their review
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; May 2, 2021 at 11:08 AM.
2014 RDX AWD Tech
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 355
Exactly. Cars are meant to be driven at least for now. There’s no point idiot proofing every eventuality (well .... until Robotaxis are up and running...).
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 17,753
Likes: 6,973
From: Minnesnowta
I thought that you have REPEATEDLY said that Teslas can full self drive and that their built in technology can fully accommodate this?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 23,362
Likes: 4,273
From: Los Angeles
Robotaxis?
u know the one without driver... What could possibly go wrong??? wait...
u know the one without driver... What could possibly go wrong??? wait...
Tesla's robo-taxi service, expected to offer fully-autonomous car rides with an Uber-like service, is coming together. During the company's first-quarter 2020 earnings call, CEO Elon Musk explained how the team is set to follow a three-step process to get its vehicles offering rides to people.
The company plans to enable every Tesla vehicle built since October 2016, all of which have been fitted with a suite of cameras and sensors, to upgrade its software and computer to support point-to-point autonomous driving with no human taking over. This, in turn, will enable the car to offer rides to members of the public autonomously – all without requiring a human driver.
The company plans to enable every Tesla vehicle built since October 2016, all of which have been fitted with a suite of cameras and sensors, to upgrade its software and computer to support point-to-point autonomous driving with no human taking over. This, in turn, will enable the car to offer rides to members of the public autonomously – all without requiring a human driver.