Go Back  AcuraZine - Acura Enthusiast Community > Automotive Discussion > Automotive News
Reload this Page >

Ford: GT News **Next Generation Revealed (page 7)**

Notices

Ford: GT News **Next Generation Revealed (page 7)**

 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:47 AM
  #81  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by gavriil
What makes a true exotic car?

Performance
Design
Heritage
Legendary Name which has won races under that name

Why to the above I have to list: "it has to be built by a manufacturer which makes exotic cars ONLY" ?

I dont understand why.

Like Siggy said, so to you, the NSX aint an exotic. Especially when in the rest of the world it goes under the Honda plate (not that Acura is a legendary name for that matter).
You keep asking the same question over and over. I give the same answer over and over but you are not listening. The answer as to what makes an exotic is obviously different for everyone. What I consider an exotic, you may not. Last time I checked there was no checklist of what makes an exotic an exotic, or even what makes a sports car a sports car. We could argue this subject forever and get NOWHERE. No, I don't consider the NSX an exotic. I refuse to get into an item by item discussion about why I feel that way. WAY too much typing, and many reasons are opinion based. Don't have the time or patience to get into that.

As far as Ferrari feeling threatened by the GT40, I REALLY don't think they're losing any sleep over it...
zeroday is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 07:01 AM
  #82  
Cost Drivers!!!!
 
Zapata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: burbs of philly
Age: 41
Posts: 19,393
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ferrari>ford


gt is a nice start.....they have a long ways to go.......


sure performance wise the ford is better....but ya really think the itallians are gonna sit around and let FORD have the lead for much longer?
Zapata is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 07:05 AM
  #83  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JESUS time for a group hug
fender4 is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 09:56 AM
  #84  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by zeroday


Actually it's you GAV who doesn't seem to have his facts straight. I was referring to Ford's living legends studios; the design house that worked on the original stang and thunderbird. That SAME DESIGN HOUSE created the GT concept. Their current TEAM designed the new thunderbird/mustang AND the GT.
Can anyone else confirm that? Can you bring some more info on this Zero? Seriously. I would like to know, cos I read differently.

In any case Zero, the point I tried to make from the above is that because Ford also designs and produces the Focus and the Escort (used to), it does not mean the GT sucks, or that the GT cannot be compared to the the Modena.

Originally posted by zeroday



Oh and thanks for letting me know why the GT is styled the way it is. I had no idea it was based on the original GT40.
Now you're being silly WHat I am trying to tell you is that the they made a lot of sacrefices aerodynamically and austhetically so that the GT looks a lot like the GT40. And I said that in response to your comment about the way it looks. All I tried to tell you was that it does not look like any other exotic because they wanted to keep it as similar to the original as possible.

Dont take this discussion personally Zero. We might disagree, but I am not trying to convince you to change your beliefs. I am trying to understand why you feel the way you do. And you below, are saying that it takes too long to type. I am sorry about that. I really would have liked to know.
gavriil is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 10:11 AM
  #85  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 17,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by gavriil
Can anyone else confirm that? Can you bring some more info on this Zero? Seriously. I would like to know, cos I read differently.
http://www.ford.com/en/innovation/de...endsStudio.htm

"These are the designers of Ford's Living Legends Studio. They are responsible for the design of the some of the world's most well-known and well-loved automobiles: the Ford Thunderbird, Mustang, Forty-Nine concept, and the GT concept."
zeroday is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 10:36 AM
  #86  
Moderator Alumnus
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lenexa, KS
Age: 42
Posts: 9,260
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by fender4
JESUS time for a group hug




SiGGy is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 10:45 AM
  #87  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by SiGGy




Hehehe....

Hey where is Arnold?
gavriil is offline  
Old 10-06-2003, 05:12 PM
  #88  
TQ > MPG
 
Joe5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Metro Detroit
Age: 37
Posts: 3,624
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally posted by zeroday

As far as Ferrari feeling threatened by the GT40, I REALLY don't think they're losing any sleep over it... [/B]

They will if/when people realize that for less money you get more performance. Ferrari is one of my favorite companies, but they arent as untouchable like alot of people think.
Joe5.0 is offline  
Old 12-06-2003, 06:20 PM
  #89  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
MotorTrend: 05 Ford GT vs 04 Viper

There is a very nice comparo in this month's MT. Some of the interesting numbers:

0-60
Viper= 3.9 secs
GT= 3.6 secs

1/4 mile
Viper= 11.77 @ 123.63 mph
GT= 11.78 @ 124.31 mph

60-0
Viper= 97 feet!!!
GT= 111 feet

600ft slalom
Viper= 70.4 mph
GT= 71.5 mph

Base price
Viper= $81K
GT= $150K estimated

Both cars carry 500HP engines
Viper makes more torque (525 pounds vs 500 pounds for the GT)
gavriil is offline  
Old 12-06-2003, 06:56 PM
  #90  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 47
Posts: 13,143
Received 1,408 Likes on 874 Posts
I'd be thrilled to have either in my garage but from what I've read the GT seems like the more civilized car of the two.
charliemike is offline  
Old 12-06-2003, 08:52 PM
  #91  
hail to the victors
 
chungkopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago
Age: 39
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
i thought GT was 3.3 sec?
chungkopi is offline  
Old 12-06-2003, 10:01 PM
  #92  
Mazda3 and Honda Civic in
 
gdubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston
Age: 43
Posts: 5,635
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
id still pick the GT

but then again 150 grand I would get a 360 Modena. Not a Ford
gdubb is offline  
Old 12-06-2003, 11:05 PM
  #93  
TQ > MPG
 
Joe5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Metro Detroit
Age: 37
Posts: 3,624
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
This was an awesome article. Almost as good as the GT3 vs. Ford GT vs. 360 Modena article that C&D did.
Joe5.0 is offline  
Old 12-07-2003, 11:14 AM
  #94  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by chungkopi
i thought GT was 3.3 sec?
Ha? The GT was 3.7 and that's what Ford claimed from the beginning.
gavriil is offline  
Old 12-07-2003, 12:49 PM
  #95  
Registered Member
 
cusdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 7,083
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by gavriil
Ha? The GT was 3.7 and that's what Ford claimed from the beginning.
C&D got 3.3

Times vary due to launch, conditions, car, etc.. The GT is definitely faster 0-60 though
cusdaddy is offline  
Old 12-07-2003, 02:28 PM
  #96  
FOUR RINGS
 
1killercls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dunedin, Fla.
Posts: 43,199
Received 1,566 Likes on 1,026 Posts
GT..Mid Engine. Nuff said.
1killercls is offline  
Old 12-07-2003, 07:44 PM
  #97  
Registered Member
 
SpeedyV6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lakeway, TX
Posts: 7,516
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
So an extra $70G's buys you a slightly higher terminal velocity at the end of the quarter mile and shittier brakes?? I think i'd take the Viper and a used E55 Benz myself.
SpeedyV6 is offline  
Old 12-07-2003, 07:52 PM
  #98  
fap fap fap
 
Infamous425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kirkland
Age: 38
Posts: 4,239
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
ill take a CL65
Infamous425 is offline  
Old 12-08-2003, 08:06 AM
  #99  
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
 
Black CL-S 4-Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The City of Syrup Screwston, Texas
Posts: 14,079
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by gdubb
id still pick the GT

but then again 150 grand I would get a 360 Modena. Not a Ford
Black CL-S 4-Life is offline  
Old 12-08-2003, 08:18 AM
  #100  
Registered Member
 
kevin79925's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston
Age: 39
Posts: 2,879
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
werd the the ferarri
kevin79925 is offline  
Old 12-08-2003, 05:04 PM
  #101  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Ford has decided there will be only 101 owners of the new GT supercar in Europe - even though more than 2,000 people registered a desire to own the motor on a special website. The decision on who gets one rests with Ford of Europe boss Lewis Booth.

Autoexpress
gavriil is offline  
Old 12-09-2003, 12:07 AM
  #102  
hail to the victors
 
chungkopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago
Age: 39
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by gavriil
Ha? The GT was 3.7 and that's what Ford claimed from the beginning.
well, i just re-read the article and it was indeed 3.3 and killed GT3 and ferrari challenge stradale(?) by .7 seconds!! and he said, they need to compare this with Saleen or Enzo!

chungkopi is offline  
Old 12-09-2003, 12:10 AM
  #103  
hail to the victors
 
chungkopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: chicago
Age: 39
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by cusdaddy
C&D got 3.3

Times vary due to launch, conditions, car, etc.. The GT is definitely faster 0-60 though
well, i guess this Fod varies from 3.3 sec to 3.6.. whatever the number is .7 better than porsche GT3 is absolutely mind boggling..
chungkopi is offline  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:32 AM
  #104  
'Big Daddy Diggler'
 
bigman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Yonkers NY
Age: 38
Posts: 11,018
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by gdubb
id still pick the GT

but then again 150 grand I would get a 360 Modena. Not a Ford
Yeah, try and get a Moena for that price after waiting in line for over a year and paying all kinds of taxes and dealer marups.

My cousin had one priced about 2 years back and the car was running a little over 275,000.
bigman is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 09:19 PM
  #105  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
R&T Mag Test: Ford GT

2005 Ford GT
American thunder roars back to the top

By Patrick Hong • Photos by Allan Rosenberg
December 2003

It was an awesome sight at the 1966 24 Hours of Le Mans. Under a rain-soaked afternoon sky, the first three cars crossing the finish line all wore the Ford GT40 name. It was a proud moment for Henry Ford II, seeing his team break the European carmakers' stronghold on sports-car racing and end Ferrari's streak of supremacy over the famed endurance race. Following that incredible feat were three more consecutive wins at the same race in La Sarthe, making the GT40 one of the most dominant race cars in motorsports history.


American Thunder
Our road test of the 2005 Ford GT.

A motor racing icon — the Ford GT40.

An interview with Dan Gurney, GT40 driver extraordinaire.

A legend reborn — more photos of the Ford GT.


While Ford's success on the racetrack has continued in various forms of motor racing since those victories at Le Mans, somehow that enthusiasm never completely made its way into the Blue Oval's production cars. In the current class of road-going exotics, the European manufacturers, especially Ferrari, continue to lead in the marketplace. Sure, there are the Ford Mustang, the Chevrolet Corvette and the Dodge Viper, but fair or not, none of these has ever reached supercar status in the eyes of many enthusiasts.
Enter the 2005 Ford GT.

Since the introduction of the Ford GT concept car at the 2002 North American International Auto Show, it has been an amazingly short 18 months and already the first three production versions have been built in time to celebrate Ford's 100th anniversary (June 2003). Instead of taking the usual four to five years of development time, the extremely enthusiastic Ford GT team compressed the entire schedule to build this high-performance sports car — not only the finest in America, but one to challenge the class benchmark, the Ferrari 360 Modena.

Timeless Styling

At first glance, the Ford GT looks like an exact copy of the original GT40. Up front, the characteristic large projecting headlights ride forward on the tips of broad fenders. Below, two round foglights at the outer edges add to the car's menacing look. And in between, a wide center opening serves to scoop up cool ambient air for the radiators before being extracted upward through two openings carved out of the hood. Walk around to the side and follow the racing stripes rearward; the GT's low and wide body stance is apparent. Like the road-going GT40 Mark II, the modern car sports a low ride height of only 44.3 in. (compared with the race car's 40.5 in.), a full 3.5 in. lower than the 360 Modena. To accommodate a roomier cockpit, the wheelbase is extended to 106.7 in., nearly 12 in. longer than the Le Mans winner.

At the back, just aft of the cockpit, are a number of air intakes that feed into the engine compartment. The top ones behind the window supply the thirsty powerplant, and the large rectangular inlets cut partly into the doors allow cooling of the engine bay (the left one) and of the transaxle radiator (right). Put your hand on the engine cover, and you'll notice how flat the expansive lid is. It continues all the way to the end, finishing in a ducktail. Capping the rear are two large circular taillights and a bumper that houses the double tailpipes at the center.



Although not exactly 1966 all over again, the interior of the new GT does have a classic look, what with its toggle switches, cue-ball shifter and individual analog gauges.

To preserve the silhouette of the original GT40 but achieve high-speed stability, Ford engineers put a lot of effort into the GT's underside aerodynamics. At the front are splitters that create downforce and limit the amount of air traveling underneath the vehicle. Side splitters are also present below the doorsills. They ensure as little disturbance as possible to the air that is being accelerated through the smooth and enclosed bellypan before being expelled by rear venturi tunnels.
To keep the GT40's trademark cut-into-the-roof doors on the Ford GT meant compromising a bit on the ease of entry. The door has to be swung all the way out so the top that makes up part of the roof will not interfere as you step into the cockpit. And before closing, much care is needed so the roof will not graze your head. Once inside, the simple yet functional themes of the Le Mans-winning race car are retained but updated with modern materials. Matte-black Azdel SuperLite plastic composite makes up the dash, the door panels and the bottom of the center console. The sweeping instrument panel has a cutout that houses all the important analog gauges. The aluminum-bezel-wrapped tachometer is centered just behind the steering wheel, and the speedometer is positioned at the farthest right and canted toward the driver. Below the gauges is a row of vintage-style switches that operate the car's other functions such as headlights and foglamps. Underneath the dash in the middle are a red starter button and the 260-watt McIntosh stereo system. The brushed-magnesium center tunnel not only holds the shift lever and the climate-control dials, but also covers the center-mounted fuel tank underneath.

Leading-Edge Chassis Technology

The Ford GT's chassis is constructed with an all-aluminum space frame using 35 extrusions, several complex castings and various stamped aluminum panels. Detail engineering such as strategically placed lightening holes on castings and optimized thickness of the primary frame rails at different locations help to maximize strength and to minimize weight. For safety and ease of repair, replaceable extruded aluminum crush rails connect the front and rear bumpers to the chassis and serve to absorb most of the energy during a collision. According to factory engineers, the Ford GT's chassis is 40 percent stiffer than that of the Ferrari 360 Modena.



The heart of this Ford is an aluminum 5.4-liter dohc V-8, supercharged to the tune of 500 bhp at 6000 rpm.

On the outside, the Ford GT uses the super plastic forming (SPF) method to mold its aluminum body panels into shape. Rather than using a costly two-sided metal die to stamp out the panels, aluminum sheets are heated to 950 degrees Fahrenheit and are formed over the single-sided die with high-pressure air. SPF allows for complicated shapes to be made in one piece, such as the rear clamshell engine cover on the GT. Of note, the rear clamshell is hemmed to a carbon-fiber inner lining for added rigidity, an industry first.
All-American Muscle

Turn the ignition key and press the starter button. The massive powerplant sitting midships in the Ford GT idles smoothly. A quick tap on the throttle, and the engine belts out a roaring note. There is no doubt that the 5.4-liter V-8's throaty rumble is American-born. The all-aluminum dohc power unit is fitted with an Eaton Model 2300 Lysholm screw-type supercharger, and it is capable of serving up 500 bhp at 6000 rpm and 500 lb.-ft. of torque at 4500 rpm.



Too many revs at launch translates to too much wheelspin for a good acceleration run, but the photo above nevertheless proves the GT has more than ample power to smoke its massive Goodyear Eagle F1s.

The Lysholm supercharger breathes through a water-to-air intercooler and adds up to 12.0 psi of boost to give the engine that extra punch. Dual fuel injectors feed each cylinder. Forged aluminum pistons atop shot-peened H-beam connecting rods transmit power through the forged-steel crankshaft. From there, a low-effort twin-plate clutch connects the Ricardo 6-speed transaxle to the power unit. A torque-sensing limited-slip differential makes certain all 500 bhp and 500 lb.-ft. of torque are put to the ground properly on acceleration. To keep the GT's powerplant well lubricated under all driving conditions, a dry-sump oil system is utilized.


A standing-start acceleration run at the drag strip is at the heart of every American sports car. And the Ford GT takes up the challenge with ease. Hold the engine rpm at 2800 and drop the clutch. Too anxious on the gas pedal and the rear tires light up instantly and plumes of white smoke billow out from the wheel wells. Best starts are accomplished with progressive throttle input. And once off the line, there is no need to change gears before reaching 60 mph. After that, shifting through the gears requires modest effort, especially from 2nd to 3rd where the gearbox feels notchy and a bit harder to engage.

Our radar gun clocks the Ford GT's 0-60-mph time at 3.8 seconds, and the quarter-mile sprint at 12.2 sec. with the speedometer indicating 121.6 mph. This emphatically beats the Ferrari 360 Modena's acceleration times of 4.3 sec. from zero to 60 mph, and its quarter-mile posting of 12.8 sec. at 112.5 mph.

Supercar Driving Dynamics

Employing a suspension setup of unequal upper A-arms and lower L-arms, coil-over monotube shocks and anti-roll bars all around, the Ford GT is tuned to soak up road imperfections with ease at cruise and also grip the asphalt with confidence while cornering. Helping to plant all four corners firmly on the ground are one-piece cast-aluminum BBS wheels wrapped in Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires: 235/45ZR-18s up front and 315/40ZR-19s at the rear. The job of slowing the 3400-lb. GT relies on 4-piston Brembo brake calipers clamping down on front 14.0-in. and rear 13.2-in. cross-drilled and vented discs.

On the street, the Ford GT is extremely easy to drive. Stop-and-go traffic is not a problem thanks to the low-effort clutch actuation and the broad torque band that comes on progressively. However, the clutch take-up does require some getting used to because of the long pedal travel. Over the concrete gaps on the Interstate, the ride is taut but comfortable. And when the time comes for passing, simply dip into the throttle and the generous torque available from the 5.4-liter engine will wind up quickly and push you past slower traffic without breaking a sweat.

Pick a winding road through the mountains and the GT's handling prowess will truly shine. Initially, the car may feel big and wide on the twisties because of the low seating position, plus the view forward and around the car is somewhat limited by the thick A-pillars and the high nose and tail. But as soon as you dial in some steering, the responsiveness of the GT to your input suddenly shrinks its perceived size. There is some lightness off-center as you turn the steering wheel, but after that the effort increases in a nice, linear fashion. After a while, you can feel your confidence build because the GT tracks the turns with poise and never exhibits any hint of swapping ends.

Driving around Mazda Raceway at Laguna Seca, the Ford GT's race-car heritage is apparent. Like the original GT40 Mark II, there can be no substitute for cubic inches. The power from the supercharged 5.4-liter V-8 is tremendous, especially when accelerating off a corner onto a straightaway. The loud rumble emitting from the GT at full throttle is not unlike the ear-piercing growl of the GT40. Compared with the Ferrari 360 Modena, the Ford GT's horsepower advantage wins the acceleration contest hands down. And through various chicanes, the GT's roadholding ability also exceeds the Ferrari's. This is also shown in our slalom test. The Ford supercar can thread its way through the cones at an amazing average speed of 69.5 mph, that's more than 2 mph faster than the Modena's 67.4-mph pace. In the Ford GT, the driver can lap the racetrack close to its limits quickly but after that, less margin for error is permitted. This contrasts to the Ferrari's character of always involving the driver (more work needed) no matter if the car is asked to go half-pace or full-out.

Changing the Face of Exotic Cars

It is about time that a U.S. automaker enters the supercar ranks. Riding on the Blue Oval's rich motorsport heritage, the Ford GT serves as the perfect car to bring the kind of spirit and excitement craved by all enthusiasts back into its production cars. And why not challenge the best in class the first time out? Watch out. America is roaring back to the top.

The Competition


The Ford GT easily outpaces the Ferrari 360 Modena. On the track, making the Modena go fast requires smooth steering input and knowing how to extract power from the high-revving engine, whereas the GT has so much torque and lateral grip in reserve that a quick pace can be achieved in a shorter amount of time.

2005 Ford GT 2000 Ferrari 360 Modena
Current list price est $149,900 est $150,000
Engine supercharged dohc 5.4-liter V-8 dohc 3.6-liter V-8
Horsepower 500 bhp @ 6000 rpm 395 bhp @ 8500 rpm
Torque 500 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm 275 lb-ft @ 4750 rpm
Transmission 6-speed manual 6-speed manual
0-60 mph 3.8 sec 4.3 sec
Braking 0-60 mph 117 ft 110 ft
Lateral accel
(200-ft skidpad) 0.99g na
Fuel mileage est 14/21 mpg 10/16 mpg
Length 182.8 in. 176.3 in.
Width 76.9 in. 75.7 in.
Height 44.3 in. 47.8 in.
Wheelbase 106.7 in. 102.4 in.
Track, f/r 63.0 in./63.7 in. 65.7 in./63.7 in.
Curb weight est 3390 lb est 3065 lb

Specs here:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...2003105848.pdf
gavriil is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 10:25 PM
  #106  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
C&D Comparo: Ford GT vs. Ferrari Challenge Stradale vs. Porsche 911 GT3






The Megastars

At last, we find out if the highly touted Ford GT can go toe to toe with a fabled Ferrari and a killer Porsche.

BY LARRY WEBSTER
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
January 2004

Ford's GT could be the most overhyped car of the decade. We admit we're in part to blame, paying tribute with 12 pages in this magazine to date, covering every square inch of the reprised Le Mans champion, every engineering iteration, every development Ford threw our way. We've driven early mules with nonspec engines, and unfinished prototypes, but up until now, we'd never strapped our test gear onto the car to find out what we all want to know: How fast is it?

It's a simple question. Here's another: How does the $150,000 supercar stack up against the newest European repli-racers, the $101,965 Porsche 911 GT3 and the $193,324 Ferrari Challenge Stradale?

You're going to find out, but we should explain why we've brought these three cars together. First, all of them are meant to give a race-car-like experience in a street vehicle. The race-car theme has been taken to almost ridiculous extremes both to save weight and to provide the perception of saved poundage.

Race cars don't have sunroofs or navigation systems or satellite radios, and neither do any of these cars. The Ferrari and the Ford have bare floors. Lightweight and extremely cool carbon-fiber panels adorn the insides of the Ferrari's doors. You won't find a spare tire in the group.

Even driver aids that wouldn't add much weight have been left off. Although each car has anti-lock brakes, none has the software and sensors that turn ABS hardware into stability-control systems. Computer bytes weigh nothing. Will the Stradale be that much faster without its optional radio? All these cars have air conditioning, however, despite the pounds it adds. The race-car fantasy would sour quickly if you were sweating all over your date.

Second, each of these cars has a significant racing heritage. The 911 GT3 shares its engine and gearbox with the racing-version GT3 that won its class at Le Mans last year. The Ferrari shares its internal components with two race cars: the 360 GT, which races in the same class as the GT3, and the 360 Challenge, which runs in the single-make Ferrari Challenge series. The Ford GT is a modern interpretation of the GT40 that finished one-two-three at Le Mans in 1966 and went on to win again in '67, '68, and '69.

The third point is that after devoting so much space to describing the GT, it's high time we put it up against some worthy opponents, and the GT3 and the Stradale are the newest gunslingers on the block. Plus, at about $100,000 for the Porsche and roughly $200,000 for the Ferrari, the Ford GT's expected base price of $150,000 neatly bisects the two.
Since these are performance cars, we spent most of our time on the 1.9-mile GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, Michigan. We also performed our standard testing regimen, in addition to driving the cars on a very bumpy public-road loop. Along the way to frying three sets of tires, we found a winner.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Third Place
Porsche 911 GT3

Third Place
Porsche 911 GT3
Highs: Flexible engine, the least expensive of the pack, the most features, lively handling.

Lows: To some, lively means evil; flat, unsupportive seats.

The Verdict: The return of the bad-boy Porsche—fun, fast, and with a real kick.
The GT3 is an overachieving sports car. On paper, it should have trailed its two competitors in every performance test. It has the poorest power-to-weight ratio here, with each of its 380 ponies burdened by 8.5 pounds, 15 percent more than the Ferrari's 425 horses are saddled with. But this is one scrappy car.

It shadowed the more powerful and lighter Ferrari in nearly every acceleration test. The two ran side by side to 60 mph (4.0 seconds) and to 150 (23.9) and were just about equal in the quarter-mile with the Porsche hitting 114 mph in 12.3 seconds and the Ferrari at 115 mph in 12.4.

We loved the GT3's aluminum flat-six engine. Its guttural growl provided a wonderful race-car soundtrack, and it revved freely to its 8200-rpm redline. Even though the peak torque of 284 pound-feet occurs at a fairly high 5000 rpm, there's still plenty of grunt at lower rpm, and the throttle response is prompt.

We weren't so thrilled with the shifting action of the six-speed manual transmission. Our test car had a rubbery linkage that didn't provide a clear path through the gears. We had to be very deliberate with the shifts, and that extra effort probably cost the GT3 a 10th or so in the acceleration times.

No time was lost on the skidpad as the GT3 pulled an astonishing 1.03 g, a figure that's been bested by only one other street car, the $659,000 Ferrari Enzo. The Stradale and the GT trailed the Porsche by 0.05 g.

Using all that grip on the racetrack took some practice because the GT3 likes to swing its tail. If we entered one of GingerMan's long corners a little too fast and lifted off the gas to tuck in the front end, the tail would immediately swing wide. But it didn't snap—we always caught the slide—although we found ourselves countersteering quite a bit.

Regardless, it was great fun. If we wanted, we could dirt-track through the corners Dukes of Hazzard-style. The problem was there didn't seem to be a happy medium in the handling. It was a case of powering through the turns and dealing with the front-tire slide that would put it wide of the intended arc, or backing off a little and trying to catch the inevitable flick-out of the rear end. As a result, you are always correcting something in the GT3.

We would have had an easier time if the seats held us in place better. While cornering at the GT3's very high limits, we were sliding all over the seat, which made it hard to work the pedals precisely.

Still, that willingness to rotate did help the GT3 polish off the corners with ease and post a 1:34.15 lap time, 0.04 second ahead of the more highly powered, lighter Ferrari (see track map above). Our car also had the optional ceramic brakes, which refused to fade.

All three cars have stiff suspensions, so even though the Porsche was the best-riding car of the bunch, it was still a roughrider. It also displayed quite a bit of bump steer and tended to dart around the road as the tires followed any new groove they encountered.

The Ferrari costs almost twice what the Porsche does and isn't quicker, so what's the GT3 doing in third place? As good as it was, those unsupportive seats cost it some points, as did the balky shifter. In addition, it came down to the cachet of the two others. If ever a 911 could feel plain, it does in the company of the Stradale and Ford GT. It did have the most features, including cruise control, a CD player, even a trip computer.

Before you castigate us and opine that clearly we should have opted for the 477-hp Porsche 911 GT2 for this test, keep in mind that its $192,000 price tag would have evaporated the high value here, and based on previous experience, we doubt it would have been fast enough to offset its higher price.

-------------------------------------------------------


Second Place
Ferrari Challenge Stradale

Second Place
Ferrari Challenge Stradale
Highs: A primal engine note that leaves your knees wobbling, fantastic seats.

Lows: Every thump makes it through the interior, choppy ride, $200K won't get you a radio.

The Verdict: Presses automotive buttons we didn't know we had.
You won't find another car here that gets your heart thumping like this Ferrari. But you pay for the pleasure, and we're not just talking about the price.

Stripped of sound insulation and carpeting and with noise-amplifying carbon fiber in place of the usual leather door panels, this Ferrari doesn't simply let the noise in, it invites it. When the aluminum 40-valve V-8 sings its primal scream, no one cares that it blows 93 on the decibel meter (a Honda Accord hits about 74 dBA). When you're cruising, the predominant sounds of the suspension thumping over every road imperfection and the carbon-fiber trim bits squeaking against one another get tiresome almost immediately. How much could a radio weigh?

The Stradale is the most powerful and lightest roadgoing 360 ever built. The 425-hp V-8 has 30 more horses than the 360 Modena. Credit a slightly higher compression ratio (11.2:1 versus 11.0:1) and freer-flowing intake and exhaust systems for the new juice.

Ferrari saved 139 pounds (the Stradale weighs 3152) via the aforementioned missing radio, carpet, and sound insulation; the use of carbon fiber for the rear hatch, door skins, center tunnel, and seat buckets; and ceramic brake rotors.

Stradales are only available with the F1 gearbox that automatically operates the clutch and performs the shifts. All the driver has to do is pull on one of two steering-col-mounted paddles: right for upshifts, left for down. There is no fully automatic mode, but the F1 gearbox will automatically select first gear at a complete stop. Our car also had a launch-control system that greatly helped standing-start acceleration runs.

Once you've pressed the right buttons to turn on launch control, you simply bring the engine revs to the desired level and lift off the brake. The computer then performs a perfect burnout on your behalf. After some experimenting, we found that about 3000 rpm produced the quickest runs.

We think we could have gone a little quicker with a fully manual system, but still, the Stradale's 4.0-second blast to 60 mph was 0.6 second quicker than the last 360 Modena we tested.

Ferrari says its cars are not about the numbers. Considering that the Ferrari finished ahead of the Porsche in voting while costing so much more and not being quicker, we'd have to say the company's right. On the track, the Ferrari was the easiest of the group to drive.

The handling balance is the opposite of the Porsche's: The Stradale only wags its tail when wildly provoked. Yet it doesn't clumsily push through the corners, either. It didn't feel like the lightest, nimblest car here—that's the Porsche's terrain—but it did feel the most solid, the most planted. We did our top-speed testing on a windy day, and with the Porsche jumping around dramatically, we didn't have the cojones to bring it to its claimed 190-mph top end. The Ferrari was just the opposite—buttoned down, secure, undramatic. We ran it to 176 mph with nary a white knuckle. The steering, too, is precise and communicative.

The seats are fantastic and prove once again that thinly padded deep buckets are good both at the track and on the street. We did have some trouble locating the right shift paddle while cornering, but we got used to it. And we never grew tired of hearing the engine. It really is the sweetest-sounding motor available. Every time we headed off on a lapping session, crowds formed at the starter's stand.

Any complaints? Well, there's a lot of road noise, and the suspension is harsh. It soaks up big bumps fine but reverberates over small holes and cracks. Still, although the Ferrari couldn't outrun the less-expensive Porsche, we'd sell our homes if it meant we could hear that engine every day.

---------------------------------------------------------------

First Place
Ford GT

First Place
Ford GT
Highs: Fantastic performance; updated vintage skin is Jack Nicholson cool.

Lows: Somehow, could use more mechanical soul.

The Verdict: A worthy successor to the original.
It wasn't even a contest. The Ford GT so completely dusted off its two highly recognized competitors that if we had wanted to make this a real challenge, we would have had to go way up the "supercar" price ladder. The $401,000 Saleen S7 is about as quick as the Ford GT, and we know of only one car that would surely outrun the Ford—the $659,000 Ferrari Enzo.

Rocketing the GT to 60 mph in 3.3 seconds and to 150 in 16.9 (that's an incredible seven seconds quicker than the Porsche and the Ferrari) was a cinch. Unlike some other supercars that have hair-trigger clutches with monstrously heavy pedal efforts, the GT's clutch was as easy to operate as a Honda Accord's.

It'll do burnouts until the tires disintegrate, but we found that gently spinning the tires at the launch with careful throttle modulation produced jack-rabbit starts. The Ferrari and the Porsche both require an upshift before 60 mph, but the Ford does not, which accounts for some of the huge sprint-time advantage.

But Ford can use a tall first gear because the engine has an enormously wide power band. In this comparo, it had the crispest throttle response. In the rolling-start test to 60 mph, where the gas pedal is floored at 5 mph, the GT hooked up and simply bolted, reaching 60 in 3.7 seconds, a full second quicker than the GT3 and 0.7 second faster than the Ferrari.

The rear tires do a fantastic job of turning the engine's mighty 500 pound-feet of torque (besting both the others by more than 200 pound-feet) into forward motion without losing traction. Although lots of rear traction sounds like a recipe for an understeering car, that was not the case.

The Ford tied the Ferrari for skidpad grip (0.98 g), and it handily outran the others in the lane-change test (70.1 mph versus the Porsche's 67.6 and the Ferrari's 67.2). The GT's handling neatly combined what we like best about the two other cars: It had the rock-solid stability of the Ferrari with less tendency to understeer, and although its tail could be gradually swung out, it wasn't as eager to do so as the Porsche.

What really made for the GT's stunning two-second-per-lap advantage—it ran a lap in 1:32.13—was its ability to put the power down while exiting a corner. A tire that's cornering is more likely to spin if you give the car too much throttle. In the Porsche and Ferrari, sloppy throttle work resulted in a power slide. The GT hunkered down and dug out of the corners with impressive verve. Its corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others'. And even though the Ford did not have fancy ceramic brake rotors, its brakes never faded, and it stopped from 70 mph in the shortest distance (153 feet versus 167 for the GT3 and Stradale).

Ford said it had not completed top-speed development and asked us not to go faster than 170 mph, so we can't answer the top-speed question yet. The projections in Dearborn are for more than 200 mph. Considering how mightily it was accelerating at 170 mph (it got there in only 23.0 seconds), we'd have to say Ford is right.

Shortcomings? The GT rides about as stiffly as the Ferrari. The wide A-pillar blocks some of your vision. We'd like more steering feedback. The ratio and the turn-in response are fine, but you don't get any sense of what the tires are up to. The whole car has a kind of robotic feel to it when compared with the lusty Ferrari. There's no supercharger whine, none of the classic V-8 burble, and the cable shifter feels lifeless. Plus, the seats in our test car were hopelessly flat and uncomfortable. Ford says a change is in the works.

Maybe we're being too picky here, because for the money, you get not only one of the coolest shapes on the road but also one of the best-performing new cars you can buy. Period. It's gratifying to know at last that the heavily hyped Ford GT does indeed deliver the goods.

Source: Car and Driver




gavriil is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 10:38 PM
  #107  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts




























gavriil is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 11:33 PM
  #108  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
cool article and pics. i'd like to see a full out comparo between the viper and gt to see who really is king right now.
heyitsme is offline  
Old 12-19-2003, 11:52 PM
  #109  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by heyitsme
cool article and pics. i'd like to see a full out comparo between the viper and gt to see who really is king right now.

It's right here:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=5
gavriil is offline  
Old 12-20-2003, 11:31 AM
  #110  
The hair says it all
 
Python2121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manhattan, NYC
Age: 32
Posts: 7,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
great article, thanks

im pretty happy that the domestics are finally picking themselves up, this is quite an accomplishment for them
Python2121 is offline  
Old 12-20-2003, 12:19 PM
  #111  
fap fap fap
 
Infamous425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kirkland
Age: 38
Posts: 4,239
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
GT looks good in silver
Infamous425 is offline  
Old 12-30-2003, 05:08 PM
  #112  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
LOS ANGELES AUTO SHOW: Ford supercar priced at $139,995

By Mark Rechtin
Automotive News / December 29, 2003

Ford Motor Co. will price the GT supercar at $139,995, not including destination charges, when it goes on sale in summer 2004.

Freight charges are estimated to be about $1,225, but are not finalized. In addition, the car will be penalized with the gas-guzzler tax.

Options will include lightweight wheels, upgraded audio, painted brake calipers and a striping scheme.

The automaker has received 700 requests to be on the GT waiting list from celebrities, athletes and corporate executives. That number does not include consumer deposits made to individual dealers, a number that Ford did not disclose.

Ford expects to sell 3,500 GTs in America over its two-year model cycle.

Source: Auto News
gavriil is offline  
Old 01-04-2004, 03:45 PM
  #113  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 18,552
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Like the car but hate the price.
Chaptorial is offline  
Old 01-05-2004, 03:17 AM
  #114  
Senior Moderator
 
mattg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: OR
Age: 43
Posts: 22,900
Received 377 Likes on 190 Posts
It wasn't even a contest. The Ford GT so completely dusted off its two highly recognized competitors that if we had wanted to make this a real challenge, we would have had to go way up the "supercar" price ladder........ and we know of only one car that would surely outrun the Ford—the $659,000 Ferrari Enzo.

so what would the haters like to say about that?
mattg is offline  
Old 01-05-2004, 01:45 PM
  #115  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 47
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by mattg
so what would the haters like to say about that?

You know...

That speed is not everything and money/price is not everything and that value is not everything and that it's the name Ferrari that makes the difference.
gavriil is offline  
Old 01-24-2004, 04:33 PM
  #116  
has Gloryhole Girls in
 
phil2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ballston Lake, NY
Age: 43
Posts: 11,474
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Ford GT Commercial (vid)

phil2 is offline  
Old 01-24-2004, 07:46 PM
  #117  
Kicking your Ass
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marietta
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes...
351MachOne is offline  
Old 01-24-2004, 07:59 PM
  #118  
Happy CL-S Pilot
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 9,215
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Video is borig in excution and really a hot supercar!. Just waitng until the NEXT 400 HP NSX, Corvette blue devil, and this Ford GT goes head to head!

Nashua.
Nashua_Night_Hawk is offline  
Old 01-26-2004, 10:55 AM
  #119  
Senior Moderator
 
srika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 53,982
Received 7,397 Likes on 3,970 Posts
ya

Originally posted by gavriil
Very surprised at these numbers. This thing flies. We are talking faster than a Viper (RT for now - I am guessing the Coupe will be faster) and dont even compare it to the Modena, which is its direct competitor.

Here are the numbers (from MotorTrend):

0-60 = 3.7 seconds
1/4 = 11.7 at 122mph (the mph figures is astonishingly fast for the HP claims in my opinion)

...
The numbers aren't surprising, given the power figures. In fact, some pre-production mules have run as high as 127 mph in the 1/4 mile. I have seen as high as 11.7 @ 124 in the mags (forgot which one).

Also remember - this is a race car - designed for one purpose only - racing. It SHOULD fly - and yes, it does.

btw in case you haven't seem em (I posted em here a few days after the event) - here are some pics from the C&D event I attended @ Gingerman Raceway in Michigan that featured 4 pre-production Ford GT's, a 911GT3, and Ferrari 360 Stradale. Yes this event was on the cover of the January C&D.

srika
srika is online now  
Old 01-26-2004, 11:41 AM
  #120  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: MotorTrend: 05 Ford GT vs 04 Viper

Originally posted by gavriil
There is a very nice comparo in this month's MT. Some of the interesting numbers:

0-60
Viper= 3.9 secs
GT= 3.6 secs

1/4 mile
Viper= 11.77 @ 123.63 mph
GT= 11.78 @ 124.31 mph

60-0
Viper= 97 feet!!!
GT= 111 feet

600ft slalom
Viper= 70.4 mph
GT= 71.5 mph

Base price
Viper= $81K
GT= $150K estimated

Both cars carry 500HP engines
Viper makes more torque (525 pounds vs 500 pounds for the GT)

so viper and gt are pretty close performance wise? does that mean viper = 360 modena too?
zypher84 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Ford: GT News **Next Generation Revealed (page 7)**


Contact Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.