iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Given the price on these, I'd imagine only adults can afford them....unless you are in Vancouver where there are tons of rich parents buying their kids expensive cars....

SamDoe1

It's not so much the actions of specific owners, it's more of the overall image courtesy of one Kenneth Block and all the media coverage surrounding the car. Also, I test drove the Golf R and basically fell in love. So much more civilized, comfortable, and daily driveable than the RS. The seats are great (not the super aggressive Recaros) and the interior looks more worthy of a $40k car. Don't get me wrong though, the RS is a far better performance car than the Golf, it's a lot faster and handles a lot better. But at the end of the day, I'm not out to race it or have a track car, I want a comfy daily that's still a hoot to drive...and for that the Golf is much better than the focus.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

How did you even come up with that?
I had been contemplating ALL morning on what Sam meant.

fsttyms1

Been reading quite a few reports of these things having head gasket problems lately. Was at the dealer picking up a new rear windshield wiper for my explorer the other day and they had 2 in the shop, 1 was getting a new engine as it was out side the vehicle.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think the head gasket issue only applies to the first model year though.

00TL-P3.2

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot...-ford-focus-rs

charliemike

I saw an RS3 hatch v Focus RS v AMG CLA45 v Golf R and the RS3 is at a different level. The AMG is much quicker than the RS and the Golf R was noticeably last.

But given the costs of the RS and Golf R, I would say they are good values.

00TL-P3.2

I'd definitely have an A45 over the competition, but not available in the US. GLA could work for me.
After that FoRS, RS3, Golf R.

All said, without having driven any of them before. Just off of aesthetics & bias.

charliemike

Not having sat in any of them, journalists often say the Audi is the nicest overall package. The CLA/A45 is raw and a little too unrefined at the price point. The Focus RS is raw and obviously feels the cheapest. The Golf R is the slowest but is a good drivers car and one of those packages where slower actually feels faster.

SamDoe1

The RS3 and CLA/GLA are at a whole different price bracket. To be honest, for the price of either, you can get a 340i or S4 and probably have a faster more comfortable car.

For the "hot hatch" bracket, I usually equate the Focus RS, Golf R, Civic Type R, and Subaru STI (not hatch I know but still) because they are in the same price bracket.

When it comes to performance, the Focus and Civic are far and away the better two. But the Focus has a pretty terrible and relatively uncomfortable interior in comparison to the others and the Civic has a love it or hate it exterior and mismatched interior colors. The Subaru is probably dead last in performance because it's ancient. The Golf R sits somewhere in the middle, it's not as fast as the Focus and doesn't handle as well either. But when it comes to daily driving, the Golf R shines. You get an interior worthy of the asking price, an optional auto trans, excellent seats, and now a 6yr/72k mi warranty to go along with it. I was dead set on getting a Focus RS this winter but after driving the Golf R, I crossed it off my list. The 18 Golf R's also now come with bigger infotainment screen and the virtual cockpit gauge cluster as well. You also get all the safety bits like blind spot monitoring, collision detection, adaptive cruise, etc all as standard and some sweet new LED headlights to round it all out. For the price, it's easily the best value.

JMO of course.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

If you need AT, I think the only choice is the Golf R out of FoRS, Golf R, Type R, and STI. Are there any incentives on the Golf R, because I believe the starting price is $40k for the 2017 model. Not sure if there's a price increase for 2018 one with the virtual cockpit. And if you get the AT, that's another $1k.

SamDoe1

I doubt there are incentives and I think the price is roughly the same for 17 and 18. I'd get the manual, but for people who just want a fast hatch and are inept at driving stick...there's just one option.

FWIW, the STI Limited and Focus RS2 are both ~$40k as well.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, the Focus RS went up in price for 2018 because it only has one trim now based on my understanding.

CTR is still $34-$35k. Would've been a decent choice for you if you don't mind MT and its styling.

SamDoe1

MT is a must have. The styling of the CTR is just not my cup of tea.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Ohhh I thought you meant AT is a must have haha, my bad. So, it's the styling that's keeping you away from the CTR. I guess not much can be done about that just yet....

Fibonacci

<<----- hoons the crap out of his Golf R 6MT daily.

Costco

I mentioned this in the general car talk thread, but the Civic Type R got third place in performance car of the year. Very impressive. Only behind the 720S, which won, and the ZL1 1LE, which was second. Editors preferred it over the Quadrifoglio and TT RS.

No Focus RS or Golf R. I don't think they would've beat out the CTR though, all accounts say it's a very visceral car to drive on the track, yet very civil on the streets.

SamDoe1

Yeah, basically just the styling for me. It's just way too far out there for my liking. If they make one with less ridiculous styling, I'd heavily consider it. I'd love to have AWD to deal with winter but FWD with snow tires isn't awful.

What year and mileage? Modded? Do you mind PM'ing me more info on your ownership experience so far?

CTR is a wonderful car, no doubt about it...just the styling is too much. Also, no volume knob.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha, no changes for 2018 CTR as far as I know, so still no volume knob, and no changes to the styling.

Costco, I also ready that Road and Track article. It's a great read as they went into the details about how they came about their ranking and choices.

If you look at the latest Motortrend article of the CTR, they declare the CTR the best hot hatch. They also posted a lap time on their 1.6 mile road course, which I assume is the Streets of Willow circuit:
2017 Honda Civic Type R First Test Review: World's Greatest Hot Hatch - Motor Trend

They managed a 1:25 in the CTR. And you can see how it would stack up against other cars here:
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap times - FastestLaps.com

And for sure, the neat thing about the CTR is that for all its performance, the ride comfort is impressive. For me, daily driving it isn't an issue at all, especially for my family since my wife is pregnant.

TacoBello

I'm actually looking into selling my 370z and TL, and simplifying the stable down to just a Golf R. I'm hoping to test drive a 6MT, tonight. My only concern is reliability with that car. Yes even if it has warranty, I don't want to be sitting at the dealership all the time. Though I heard the R is a "proper" built Golf, built in Deutschland still.

Have you modified your Golf R at all? That APR stage 1 tune sounds veeeeeeery tempting but I believe it would otherwise void the engine warranty... and maybe the Haldex AWD system warranty ("too much power, you broke _______")

I cant find shit on reliability, though. Even searching through vwvortex, I couldn't really find anything on the R. I found a bunch of shit for the GTi and lower Golfs, but those are all Mexico made, aren't they?

oonowindoo

Just in case if your R plan does not go through, the dark side always welcomes you.

TacoBello

What's the dark side?

oonowindoo

you know....our side.

Fibonacci

I bought a '17 last Christmas, came fully loaded with DCC, but the strange thing is mine didn't include park pilot or lane keep assist, which the later 17's had as standard. I've put just over 15k miles on it so far and it's been flawless. Once in a blue moon the head unit will randomly crash and reboot but it's only happened a couple of times. Originally had my heart set on a Focus RS but it was impossible to locate a dealer which would let me drive one as they were virtually all pre-sold by the time they hit the retail floor. At one dealer, they wanted me to fill out a credit app just to get in line for one, what a joke. The R is the most fun I've had in a daily driver since my last Prelude and more tossable than my '10 TL SH-AWD 6MT. I ate a 20k depreciation on my '15 TLX SH-AWD and have zero regrets. I spank it hard on a daily basis and this car just goes like an eager puppy on a leash and keeps begging for more. What I also love about it is that it looks unassuming and gets zero attention from law enforcement and road ragers. I drive this puppy faster than my NSX because it flies under the radar so well. Oh and the dual clutch is indeed quicker but the manual is funner!

My nitpicks: I wish it came with 18" Pretorias standard instead of 19". Metro Detroit roads do not take kindly to the thin sidewalls, but when I hit crappy surface roads comfort mode helps greatly though. Also, the gas tank is just too small and I can't get through a whole commuting week with out having to fill up which is annoying but part of the problem is my lead foot. Also, it seems like the windshield doesn't stand up to road debris well and have already replaced with an OEM windshield once already. Feel free to PM me for more specific questions, but long story short I strongly recommend one if you are in the market.

Zero mods to date Taco other than set of 17' winter wheels/snows and a Xpel front wrap. I've been very tempted to go APR stage 1, but frankly it is quick enough as is and would prefer to keep it under factory warranty and keep it in race mode 80% of the time. Not sure about Canada, but believe the 2018's will come with VW's new standard 6yr 72k factory warranty here stateside. The R's are still made in Germany, if I'm not mistaken the rest of the Golf lineup including the GTI's are hecho en Mexico. I've lurked on vortex and it is an excellent forum, make sure you are in the MK7 R sub forum for R specific threads which are plentiful.

Apology for threadjack.

SamDoe1

lol, I went to drive a 340i a few weeks ago and they basically told me to pound sand. They "allowed" me to drive a base model 330i which I was less than pleased with. The dealerships around here make a lot of judgements about people and their ability to buy things, it's annoying to say the least but it has greatly pushed me out of the BMW camp even further. Also, the 340i they were talking about stickered at $63k and at that point I would pony up a few extra G's and get a M3.

Thanks for the info! The longer warranty is a huge selling point for me. That and it now has the virtual cockpit as standard as well.

I'm still torn between getting this or a new JL Wrangler... And yes I know those are two totally different things.

TacoBello

I can't get behind the Focus RS. I don't know why. But I can't buy one. I'd take the hideous Type R over it, any day of the week.

I test drove a 2016 Golf R 6MT last night. To be honest, I was a little disappointed. The shifter and clutch felt anemic in comparison to my TL. I was really disappointed with how it felt to rev match down shift the car.

What I found interesting- the car had 23k km on it (about 14.5k miles) and it already had a check engine light. Seriously? The car drove fine and I had them scan it, to see what the code was- the car was apparently running rich, which makes a guy wonder wtf is going on in a car that new. If that's also something I need to worry about every 15k miles, ugh, no thanks. I was reminded of how terrible VW reliability can be, and while I'm sure there are flawless examples out there, you never know what you're buying when at the dealership. In general, the ownership experience on vwvortex seems to be "well, issues are normal and you should expect them, but the car has never actually stranded me. Also, if you mod the engine at all, even APR Stage 1, your reliability will go down. Don't expect the car to last forever, if you're going to be driving it 20k miles per year"

Growing up in love with Honda and Honda reliability, that seems like a major step down in ownership satisfaction. It's great the car never stranded me. But having to be at the dealership getting something fixed every month is worse than getting stranded once. After that, and considering the Golf R has an adaptive suspension, an AWD system, etc... there's a lot to eventually go wrong and buying anything other than brand new seems like a big enough risk, because even at 2 years old, shiiiiiieeeeet.... that's a lot of warranty gone and time put on the engine/power train... and you have no clue how it was treated, regardless of the mileage.

I ended up walking away, surprisingly content with my 11 year old TL.

oonowindoo

is that MN thing cuz you can literally drive anything here. $63k sticker 340i is pretty much loaded if you dont have M performance parts.
BTW: You can get about 7k off easily on 340i. Not sure about in MN tho

TacoBello

You're doing it all wrong. Whenever I walk into a dealership to look at cars, I dress very nicely. You get treated completely differently. It doesn't matter whether I'm actually intending to buy or not. But if you show up dressed like you have money, they're willing to kiss your ass all day long. Plus, there's nothing ever wrong with dressing like a boss.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

that's why you save $10k and go for the GTI

kurtatx

Yup, look like you are a doctor but don't actually say you are one.

TacoBello

I say I'm an engineer and everyone starts laughing and pitying me

kurtatx

I mean, realistically at most dealerships if you look like an engineer in their mid 30s you can probably have your choice of BMWs/Audis (outside of the halo cars).

TacoBello

You're killing the joke, Kurt!

kurtatx

fify

RPhilMan1

I still see the same handful of Focus RS on dealer lots here. I bet I can get a great deal on one whenever the time came that I'd be ready to buy.

00TL-P3.2

My dealer shows 5 in stock with 7 more ordered/not photographed. The them off the truck & put them right on the sidewalk with all the shipping plastic still on the car
Last time I was there they had 3 on display, so I guess they're not moving them either. Still has a $4k markup on it as well.

oonowindoo

with the introduction of CTR, i would expect 5k off from others

SamDoe1

Honda shifters are always going to be way better than anything from VW, Audi, or BMW. The first time I drove a Focus ST I had driven the S2k to the dealership and thought that the brand new ST had a broken shifter and clutch.

In any case, I'd buy a new one for exactly the reason you stated. Never know how a car, especially a performance one, was treated before your turn. With a 6 year warranty I can have at it for a long period of time before selling it. Makes a lot more financial sense.

I think it had a lot of the M Performance BS put on it.

It's not a MN thing, it's a dealer thing. That particular dealer is notorious for treating customers like garbage if they think they can't afford it. Unfortunately it's the one close to my house and I didn't want to venture an extra 30mins to check out a 3 series. I didn't dress well I'll admit, nor did I roll up in a mint S2000 but still. It shouldn't matter what you look like, you never know when people do and don't have money. A buddy of mine who works at a dealer in San Diego said one of his coworkers got screwed out of a sweet deal because he thought this guy who dressed like he was homeless and wanted to look at a really high end pickup had no money so he tried to tell him off. When the guy bought the most expensive truck on the lot in cash from another sales guy, he looked at the sell form. Buyer's name: Mick Jagger.

Long story short, with the way a lot of people dress these days, you never know who has money. Mark Zuckerberg walks around in a hoodie and jeans most days.

Eh, I'm not a fan of dressing up. I'm the most comfortable in jeans and a comfy shirt.

I'm an engineer in my early 30's. I can buy almost any 3/4 series they have on the lot in cash if I wanted to (I don't and also it would clean out my account pretty well). The guy totally blew a potential sale because of it.

The discounts on RS's is epic right now, they are really trying hard to move them. If you want one, you should grab a MY17 quick.

00TL-P3.2

I'm not 'dressing up' to go car shopping/tire kicking.
Luckily, we don't have a lot of dealers like that around here. At least the ones I've been in, the sale people don't give much of a condescending air.

oonowindoo

I wear shorts and flipflop to buy cars, if they dont want my business, there are plenty of others. Good thing about living in So cal