Ford: Dual-Clutch PowerShift Gearbox news **North America in 2010 (page 1)**

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:18 AM
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Ford: Dual-Clutch PowerShift Gearbox news **North America in 2010 (page 1)**

Ford announces PowerShift dual-clutch gearbox for U.S. in 2010

Ford today announced it is joining the growing number of automakers that have elected to use dual-clutch transmissions in place of traditional automatic gearboxes. DCTs — first popularized by Volkswagen under the DSG name — shift faster than typical manual gearboxes and are as smooth as the best automatics.

Ford’s six-speed PowerShift automated manual unit also promises to reduce fuel consumption by up to 9 percent, compared to a traditional automatic four-speed transmission.

Ford further committed that almost 100 percent of its transmissions will be “advanced six-speed” gearboxes by 2013. However, it is not clear if the company means dual-clutch units, or simply transmissions with at least six gears.

The PowerShift system uses two computer-controleld clutches — one for even gears and one for odd gears — to provide fast shifts without the jerkiness of first-generation automated manuals, like BMW’s SMG. PowerShift will offer drivers a fully automatic model, or manual control, albeit without a clutch pedal.

In Europe, Ford currently offers a PowerShift transmission in the Ford Focus. This PowerShift uses a twin wet-clutch system to handle the higher torque levels of the 2.0-liter TDCI engine available in the Focus. In North America, a dry-clutch derivative of Ford’s PowerShift transmission will be used for added efficiency and durability.

A dry clutch transmits power and torque through manual transmission clutch facings, while most automatic transmissions utilize wet clutch plates submerged in oil. As a result, the dry-clutch PowerShift transmission does not require an oil pump or torque converter, providing superior mechanical efficiency.

“A dry clutch is a real sweet spot for lighter vehicle applications,” said Piero Aversa, manager, Ford Automatic Transmission Engineering. “PowerShift is more efficient, it saves weight, is more durable, more efficient and the unit is sealed for life, requiring no regular maintenance.”

Another highlight of the system is “neutral coast down,” which disengages the clutch when the brakes are applied, improving coasting downshifts and clutch robustness as well as reducing parasitic losses for increased fuel economy.

A low-speed “creep” mode simulates the low-speed control drivers are accustomed to from an automatic transmission by monitoring brake pressure and modulating the clutch accordingly. The system also automatically maintains brake pressure on hills to prevent rolling back.

(Story photo for illustrative purposes. Actual gearbox not pictured.)
The Ford roll continues.

Hate to beat the same drum but WTF Honda.....
Old 01-21-2009, 08:34 AM
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Wow, it seems as if this is the next 'fad' for automakers to achieve. I think this is a next step in trying to achieve better fuel efficiency. a little thing before we have any other thing
Old 01-21-2009, 08:46 AM
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Honda is being left behind if even ford is promising these trans and 6 forward gears.
Old 01-21-2009, 09:30 AM
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Nice. to Ford for stepping up on this one. And if Ford does it, GM won't be too far behind.
Old 01-21-2009, 09:57 AM
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Good news. Seems like Ford is on the up, and Honda is regressing.
Old 01-21-2009, 10:46 AM
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Another win for Ford.....the outlook for Ford looks fantastic.
Old 01-21-2009, 10:51 AM
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so they are entering the market with an obsolete number of gears? I thought they were trying to improve their business model?
Old 01-21-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Honda is being left behind if even ford is promising these trans and 6 forward gears.
I have to assume that the DSG in the now canceled NSX successor will make its way into some Honda/Acura vehicles.

It seems VW started the trend - everyone will be in catch up mode.
Old 01-21-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
so they are entering the market with an obsolete number of gears? I thought they were trying to improve their business model?
Just because there are 7 speed Dual clutch gearboxes out there does not mean 6 speeds are obsolete.
Old 01-21-2009, 03:27 PM
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Yesssssssss!! I love dual clutch trannys... I test drove a 2008 GTI... it was the dreamiest auto ive ever punched.

I wonder how a focus RS with one of these badboys is gonna look
Old 01-21-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by agranado
Yesssssssss!! I love dual clutch trannys... I test drove a 2008 GTI... it was the dreamiest manual ive ever punched.

I wonder how a focus RS with one of these badboys is gonna look
Fixed.
Old 01-21-2009, 03:52 PM
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hm. i put it in D, i accelerated thru corners, paddled a bit.. felt like a tight sports auto to me.. lol.

Unless there's something I missed in the Ford description.
Old 01-21-2009, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by agranado
hm. i put it in D, i accelerated thru corners, paddled a bit.. felt like a tight sports auto to me.. lol.

Unless there's something I missed in the Ford description.
They are manual transmissions that can function "like" an automatic transmission.

They are far from an automatic transmission that has some bogus sports-shift function.
Old 01-21-2009, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chill_dog
Nice. to Ford for stepping up on this one. And if Ford does it, GM won't be too far behind.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Hopefully we're right.
Old 01-21-2009, 06:20 PM
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Ford
Advance.
Old 01-21-2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by biker
I have to assume that the DSG in the now canceled NSX successor will make its way into some Honda/Acura vehicles..
This is honda we are talking about. Ill believe it when i see it. And as of late i havent seen ANY real improvements in honda and its drivetrain.
Old 01-21-2009, 11:29 PM
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Honda should hurry up and buy gearboxes from Getrag just like Ford. Or how about just follow VW and simply get a license from Borgwarner for its DSG? Much easier than developing in-house gearbox IMO and will certainly make everyone happy. I mean no one, or nobody cares if you simply use off-the-shelf parts.
Old 01-22-2009, 12:15 AM
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Press release...

Ford Motor Company announced today it will introduce an advanced dual-clutch PowerShift six-speed transmission in North America in 2010 for the small-car segment.

PowerShift will deliver the fuel efficiency of a manual gearbox with the convenience and ease of a premium automatic transmission – making it a key enabling technology as Ford targets best-in-class or among-the-best fuel economy with every new vehicle it introduces in North America.

"PowerShift represents a true competitive advantage for Ford and is one of the many technologies that will help our global small-car platforms set a new world standard for efficiency and drive quality," said Barb Samardzich, vice president, Global Powertrain Engineering, who announced PowerShift's production timing at the 2009 Automotive News World Congress. "This advanced six-speed is an improvement over today's automatic transmissions in terms of fuel economy, while providing customers an even more fun-to-drive experience."

Overall, Ford has committed that almost 100 percent of its transmissions will be advanced six-speed gearboxes by 2013. Six-speed transmissions already have helped vehicles such as the 2010 Ford Fusion achieve best-in-class fuel economy, while at the same time allowing the Ford Flex and Ford Escape to achieve unsurpassed fuel economy in their respective segments.

Ford is leveraging six-speed transmissions, advanced internal combustion engines such as EcoBoost, hybrids, full electric vehicles, vehicle weight reduction and electric power-assisted steering to improve fuel economy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions fleet-wide by 30 percent by 2020.

Automatic Comfort
Compared to traditional automatic four-speed transmissions, PowerShift can help reduce fuel consumption by up to 9 percent depending on the application.

PowerShift provides the full comfort of an automatic with a more sophisticated driving dynamic, thanks to uninterrupted torque from the dual-clutch technology, which consists essentially of two manual transmissions working in parallel, each with its own independent clutch unit. One clutch carries the uneven gears – 1, 3 and 5 – while the other the even gears – 2, 4 and 6. Subsequent gear changes are coordinated between both clutches as they engage and disengage for a seamless delivery of torque to the wheels.

In Europe, Ford currently offers a PowerShift transmission in the Ford Focus. This PowerShift uses a twin wet-clutch system to handle the higher torque levels of the 2.0-liter TDCI engine available in the Focus.

In North America, a dry-clutch derivative of Ford's PowerShift transmission will be used for added efficiency and durability. A dry clutch transmits power and torque through manual transmission clutch facings, while most automatic transmissions utilize wet clutch plates submerged in oil. As a result, the dry-clutch PowerShift transmission does not require an oil pump or torque converter, providing superior mechanical efficiency.

"A dry clutch is a real sweet spot for lighter vehicle applications," said Piero Aversa, manager, Ford Automatic Transmission Engineering. "PowerShift is more efficient, it saves weight, is more durable, more efficient and the unit is sealed for life, requiring no regular maintenance."

PowerShift, unlike conventional automatic transmissions, does not need the heavier torque converter or planetary gears. In addition, the dry-clutch derivative eliminates the need for the weighty pumps, hydraulic fluids, cooling lines and external coolers that wet clutch transmissions require. As a result, the dry-clutch PowerShift transmission can weigh nearly 30 pounds less than, for example, the four-speed automatic transmission featured on today's Ford Focus.

Differentiating PowerShift even further in terms of its customer appeal is its shift quality, launch feel and overall drive dynamic, which are all facilitated by an expert blend of Ford-exclusive electro-mechanical systems, software features, calibrations and controls. These unique driving features include:

• Neutral coast down – The clutches will disengage when the brakes are applied, improving coasting downshifts and clutch robustness as well as reducing parasitic losses for increased fuel economy.

• Precise clutch control in the form of a clutch slip to provide torsional damping of the engine vibration – This function improves noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) at low engine speeds and enables lower lugging limits for improved fuel economy.

• Low-speed driving or creep mode with integrated brake pressure – This function simulates the low-speed control drivers are accustomed to from an automatic transmission. The amount of rolling torque in Drive and Reverse is precisely controlled, gradually building as brake pressure is released.

• Hill mode or launch assist – Prevents a vehicle from rolling back on a grade by maintaining brake pressure until the engine delivers enough torque to move the vehicle up the hill, providing improved driver confidence, comfort, safety and clutch robustness.

Old 01-22-2009, 08:06 AM
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
Honda should hurry up and buy gearboxes from Getrag just like Ford. Or how about just follow VW and simply get a license from Borgwarner for its DSG? Much easier than developing in-house gearbox IMO and will certainly make everyone happy. I mean no one, or nobody cares if you simply use off-the-shelf parts.
We are talking about Honda here......who of late have not been very smart.
Old 01-22-2009, 02:20 PM
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Seriously, just buy these boxes for now, then in the mean time develop their own if they really want to make everything themselves.

I mean, just imagine what a 6AT TL SH-AWD can do since right now with the 5AT it can do 1/4 mile in 14.3@98mph with so much weight.
Old 01-22-2009, 03:13 PM
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I can't remember this, but was Honda/Acura an early adopter of 5spd auto trannies? Or were they pretty late to offer 5spd as well?
Old 01-22-2009, 08:31 PM
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^^Thanks for clarifying moog, I had just thought they were more seriously put together Auto's.
Old 01-23-2009, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
Seriously, just buy these boxes for now, then in the mean time develop their own if they really want to make everything themselves.

I mean, just imagine what a 6AT TL SH-AWD can do since right now with the 5AT it can do 1/4 mile in 14.3@98mph with so much weight.
Besides performance, don't forget the additional highway mileage that the extra gear in the 6AT will bring along. This is really GREEN.
Old 01-23-2009, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sipark
I can't remember this, but was Honda/Acura an early adopter of 5spd auto trannies? Or were they pretty late to offer 5spd as well?
Acura WAS an early adopter of the 5-speed auto trannies at the beginning of this decade. But my guess is that they shut down the tranny R&D department after that. That's why 8 years later, Acura vehicles are still using 5-speed auto trannies.
Old 01-23-2009, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sipark
I can't remember this, but was Honda/Acura an early adopter of 5spd auto trannies? Or were they pretty late to offer 5spd as well?
They weren't late, but weren't the first to adopt too. I think the first 5AT was found in the 2000 TL. I think at that time, Lexus ES300 had 4AT; most, if not all Infiniti's were using 4AT.

I think they are afraid to repeat the famous tranny failure "crisis" and so they are slow at bringing out a new gearbox. If so, why not just use someone else's gearbox just like everyone is doing for the time-being?

Last edited by iforyou; 01-23-2009 at 01:07 AM.
Old 01-23-2009, 07:08 AM
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
If so, why not just use someone else's gearbox just like everyone is doing for the time-being?
It's Honda, it's all about face. Using someone else's tranny would not look good in their eyes; it would be a sign of weakness (ie. they can't develop their own).
Old 01-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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Yea, that's pretty much the only reason - they are quite stubborn...lol...it's Honda's strength, but it's also its weakness unfortunately.
Old 01-24-2009, 08:51 AM
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I think Honda is trying to maintain the 'little engine that could' mentality -- everything major mechanical part is designed in-house, so they know the R&D monies / technology remain proprietary info.

Hey -- it's worked for them thus far (for the most part). They are just not seeing the 'big picture' of a global market and economies of scale by sharing / purchasing technology with others (ie transmissions).

Going back on topic -- Ford is making great strides to be a leader in the domestic market. Kudos to Mullaly and his vision of the company. Ironic that a non-car guy appears to be turning around a company ...
Old 01-24-2009, 12:29 PM
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And also the fact if Ford doesn't do something drastic now then it's pretty much over - same goes for GM and Chrysler. For Honda though, they are still doing relative well and perhaps it's a good idea to keep doing what they have been doing. Unless Honda goes into a situation similar to where the big 3 are in now, I don't see why they will change much.
Old 01-24-2009, 03:32 PM
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I don't have a problem with Honda doing their own trannies (IMO they make the best manual gearbox on the planet).
Old 01-24-2009, 11:54 PM
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^^ Yeah, tell that to current Civic SI owners w/3rd gear pop-problems... lol
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