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Old 09-23-2009, 10:38 AM
  #401  
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I owned a 1983 Dodge Aries and it was the biggest POS in a long line of cars I've owned.

In hindsight I should have driven my 1979 Accord out to Colorado rather than pay $2500 for that fucking car (in 1989). It still pisses me off.

I wanted a Scirocco
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:26 PM
  #402  
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I don't think so. If the new mini-vans and cars is the best they can come up with, then Chrysler needs a reality check.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire View Post
I don't think so. If the new mini-vans and cars is the best they can come up with, then Chrysler needs a reality check.
The new mini was good enough for VW to call their own...

Shits gotta change, and there is a long way to go, but I love all the naysayers.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
The new mini was good enough for VW to call their own...

Shits gotta change, and there is a long way to go, but I love all the naysayers.
Aside from the Ram trucks, the Challenger and maybe half of the SRT models, IMO Chrysler doesn't have very much of an appealing lineup. No offense to anyone but their SUV/crossover lineup is terrible, at least looks-wise. I don't really care for interior materials much, cause I focus more on design and ergonomics, but I can admit that their interiors are subpar. They actually have some cool utility features like hidden storage that they advertise in their commercials, but I quote an anonymous blog commenter, "that interior looks like it was designed with a ruler"

People need to realize the whole fiasco with Cerberus put Chrysler in a stand still so its going to be a while until we start seeing some all-new product. I too think they'll recover... I don't see their reliability record spiking to the top anytime soon with Fiat taking over, but I think they'll really strengthen their small car lineup over the years. Cerberus on the other hand, they really had no interest whatsoever in moving Chrysler forward.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:50 PM
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Fiat Buys All Of Chrysler

Fiat Buys All Of Chrysler

Fiat buys rest of Chrysler from UAW; no IPO

Fiat, owner of Chrysler Group, has agreed to buy the United Auto Workers' remaining 41.46% stake in Chrysler for $3.65 billion, plus four separate payments totaling $700 million.

The agreement, announced Wednesday, heads off a public stock offering of Chrysler shares that Fiat and Chrysler didn't want, but the UAW was forcing, in order to set a value on its stake.

It puts to an end months of cantankerous wrangling between the union and automakers about the value of the retirement trust's shares. And it's happened suddenly, in an unexpected way, as firm plans had been announced late last year for the IPO.

Fiat previously bought out the stake held by Canadian governments, so once the current deal closes, Fiat and Chrysler can be merged into a single company. No details have been hinted about where a merged automaker would have headquarters, nor whether a full merger would change product plans or management teams.

In a statement, Fiat/Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said, "The unified ownership structure will now allow us to fully execute our vision of creating a global automaker that is truly unique in terms of mix of experience, perspective and know-how, a solid and open organization that will ensure all employees a challenging and rewarding environment."

UAW's employee retirement trust — VEBA — owns the stake, and it and the automakers have been unable to agree on a price. The matter went to court, but the judge declined to set a price. As part of the buyout agreement, the retirement trust won't pursue any further legal action.

Marchionne wants to own all of Chrysler so he can tap its cash to help support ailing Fiat, and to streamline operations of a merged company.

Fiat got control of Chrysler during the Detroit maker's 2009 Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization, seen as a savior of Chrysler that would provide the Detroit maker with much-needed economy cars. But European markets since then have tumbled, and Euro brands have been hard pressed to maintain profits.

Chrysler, meanwhile, has reported solid earnings — $1.14 billion for the first three quarters of 2013, and nine consecutive profitable quarters. Fourth-quarter earnings will be reported later.

The purchase will be made by Fiat's Fiat North America unit. The transaction is expected to close on or before Jan. 20.

It will be structured this way:

• Chrysler and Fiat North America will pay VEBA members $1.9 billion in a special distribution.

• Fiat will pay the VEBA another $1.75 billion cash.

• Chrysler will make four payments of $175 million to the VEBA in the next year.

• The UAW agrees to a memorandum of understanding under Chrysler Group's existing collective bargaining agreements that the union will make "certain commitments to continue to support the industrial operations at Chrysler Group and the further implementation of the Fiat-Chrysler alliance, including to use best efforts to cooperate in the continued roll-out of Fiat-Chrysler World Class Manufacturing programs, actively participate in bench-marking efforts associated with implementation of these programs across all of Fiat-Chrysler manufacturing sites to ensure objective performance assessments and provide for proper application of WCM principles and actively assist in the achievement of the Group's long-term business plan."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...e-ipo/4279411/
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:30 PM
  #406  
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Good, keep the UAW away.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:13 PM
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Fiat buys Chrysler

....because clearly no other automaker would have bought GM when they were going under.

Goes to show how much the auto bailout was just a union bailout courtesy of the empty suit.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
I don't see their reliability record spiking to the top anytime soon with Fiat taking over, but I think they'll really strengthen their small car lineup over the years.


also, the mention about Chrysler aiming to be a "notch above Cadillac"
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post


also, the mention about Chrysler aiming to be a "notch above Cadillac"
I never heard this quote, but it certainly explains the way Chrysler tries to market themselves. I've been in a 300 before, and while it was decent for something from a mainstream brand, it's nowhere near a luxury car.

Jeep seems to be the only Chrysler brand I would consider buying a car from.

I still have nightmares about my Dodge Avenger rental car...
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:13 PM
  #410  
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Well i guess we now only have 2 American auto manufacturers now.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1 View Post
Well i guess we now only have 2 American auto manufacturers now.
I know Tesla's one of them. Who's the other?
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1 View Post
Well i guess we now only have 2 American auto manufacturers now.
Panoz and who is the other?
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:39 PM
  #413  
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Panoz and Tesla?
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
I never heard this quote, but it certainly explains the way Chrysler tries to market themselves. I've been in a 300 before, and while it was decent for something from a mainstream brand, it's nowhere near a luxury car.

Jeep seems to be the only Chrysler brand I would consider buying a car from.

I still have nightmares about my Dodge Avenger rental car...
Got it from this:

Originally Posted by Yumcha View Post
I had a Chrysler 200, pretty much the same thing. It truly was a turd as well. The Fusion rental we had the next week blew it away in every category.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
I had a Chrysler 200, pretty much the same thing. It truly was a turd as well. The Fusion rental we had the next week blew it away in every category.
What was worse is I traveled not long after I wrapped up my car search (a month or two?). So, up until I went on my trip, I was test driving the likes of the 3 series, IS, TSX, Mustang, 370Z, etc. It made the flaws of the Avenger that much more apparent. Considering that was roughly a year ago, Chrysler has a long way to go to even be considered relevant in my eyes. The fact they think they can compete in the luxury game tells me they are not only way behind the times, but completely delusional as well.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:09 AM
  #416  
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
What was worse is I traveled not long after I wrapped up my car search (a month or two?). So, up until I went on my trip, I was test driving the likes of the 3 series, IS, TSX, Mustang, 370Z, etc. It made the flaws of the Avenger that much more apparent. Considering that was roughly a year ago, Chrysler has a long way to go to even be considered relevant in my eyes. The fact they think they can compete in the luxury game tells me they are not only way behind the times, but completely delusional as well.
You can't go basing an opinion of an entire manufacturer off of one shit base model car, that was in a rental fleet, that is a carry over from the days when they were mishandled and nearly run into the ground.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:34 AM
  #417  
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^+1 - based on rentals in 08 I though the Sonata was better than an Accord.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
You can't go basing an opinion of an entire manufacturer off of one shit base model car, that was in a rental fleet, that is a carry over from the days when they were mishandled and nearly run into the ground.
It's not just off of one model. Like I said in a previous post, I've ridden in 300s before (never driven one though) as well as various Jeeps and other Dodge products. I've taken the time to look at their cars at Autoshows.

Based on what I've seen, the company as a whole has a real problem, and they still do, and it goes deeper than just poor product planning. They need a top to bottom restart of the entire company, and I'm not quite sure they're ready to do that, they're instead content to chase the ideal of Chrysler as a luxury brand instead of fixing what needs to be fixed (powertrains, styling, quality of materials, quality of assembly, etc). Maybe Fiat will change that now that they're in charge, but I highly doubt it. They seem to be more interested in using Chrysler as a piggy bank.

I'd consider a Jeep product if I was looking for an SUV, but I wouldn't even give any of the other brands a second look. Even Jeep, I'm only really interested in the Grand Cherokee.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:35 AM
  #419  
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
I know Tesla's one of them. Who's the other?
Say what you want about their cars, Ford is a wholly-owned American corporation that took no bailout money.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:44 AM
  #420  
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
It's not just off of one model. Like I said in a previous post, I've ridden in 300s before (never driven one though) as well as various Jeeps and other Dodge products. I've taken the time to look at their cars at Autoshows.

Based on what I've seen, the company as a whole has a real problem, and they still do, and it goes deeper than just poor product planning. They need a top to bottom restart of the entire company, and I'm not quite sure they're ready to do that, they're instead content to chase the ideal of Chrysler as a luxury brand instead of fixing what needs to be fixed (powertrains, styling, quality of materials, quality of assembly, etc). Maybe Fiat will change that now that they're in charge, but I highly doubt it. They seem to be more interested in using Chrysler as a piggy bank.

I'd consider a Jeep product if I was looking for an SUV, but I wouldn't even give any of the other brands a second look. Even Jeep, I'm only really interested in the Grand Cherokee.
Reading this just proves you are running on old hang ups and not paying attention to what they are doing.

Im going to guess the only 300s you've been in are the 1st gens...or if you were in a 2nd gen it was sitting in one for 2 seconds at an auto show.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:01 AM
  #421  
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
I'd consider a Jeep product if I was looking for an SUV, but I wouldn't even give any of the other brands a second look. Even Jeep, I'm only really interested in the Grand Cherokee.
I wrote out this long narrative about Chrysler and then went to Fiat and Lancia's world site and saw a rebadged 300, Caravan, and 200 convertible.

I am not optimistic about this partnership anymore. That Marchionne would think that it was in any way appropriate to bring those three cars over to Europe and put Lancia badges on them ... FFS man. You've continued to ruin the brand.

Even Fiat has a rebadged Dodge Journey for sale in Europe. Just disappointing all around.

Also, before the end of the decade I believe that Lincoln will be closed. The Lincoln models are not significantly better than the Ford models they are based upon and aren't worth the cost. Though they are better than the badge engineering of a few years ago, why would I pay $45k for a MKZ when a Fusion Titanium is as good as it is? Or a MKS when the Taurus SHO is such a nice car?

This is the problem now with having a Dodge AND a Chrysler. Either they make Dodge artificially inferior to justify the existence of Chrysler or Dodges get so good that there's no point in buying a Chrysler.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:27 AM
  #422  
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
Reading this just proves you are running on old hang ups and not paying attention to what they are doing.
I'm legitimately curious, what are they doing that I'm missing? The Dart is a giant swing and a miss, the Cherokee is , the Viper apparently missed the mark. I've seen the pictures of the new 200 and it looks like it'll end up in the same place as the old one, a rental fleet champ that will consistently sit at the bottom of the mid-size sales charts. Fiat seems disinterested in making any real changes at best, they seem to only want Chrysler's cash flow and an "in" to the US market.

So tell me, what am I missing?
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
Say what you want about their cars, Ford is a wholly-owned American corporation that took no bailout money.
This is why I respect Ford the most out of the big 3 'Murican manufacturers that and their lineup has the most overall appeal anyway.

the bailout was a freaking joke.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:08 PM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
I'm legitimately curious, what are they doing that I'm missing? The Dart is a giant swing and a miss, the Cherokee is , the Viper apparently missed the mark. I've seen the pictures of the new 200 and it looks like it'll end up in the same place as the old one, a rental fleet champ that will consistently sit at the bottom of the mid-size sales charts. Fiat seems disinterested in making any real changes at best, they seem to only want Chrysler's cash flow and an "in" to the US market.

So tell me, what am I missing?
The dart is not a runaway sales success, no. Sucks but people have too many bad memories about the neon I suppose. The car generally gets good reviews, and the interior design and quality is actually one of the best in the segment, especially with the technology they packed in.

Like the design of the new Cherokee or not, its getting really good reviews and the interior is like a smaller JGC, which is a great thing. I hope this has better success.

The Charger is fantastic vehicle...2 members on here have recently got them, and another just picked up a last gen RT. The current generation includes and addresses almost everything the members and long time mopar fans have been asking for on the forums.

The JGC is solid and rivals many luxury SUVs.

The Ram 1500...motor trend truck of the year 2 years in a row (2012, 2013) no one else currently offers a diesel in their 1500 level trucks, and that diesel bests the ford ecoboost in the f150 in terms of mpg.

No one has seen what the new 200 looks like yet as nothing has been released about it, and it will have alpha or lancia underpinnings, I forget which.

The 300 is a great more upscale version of the charger, that is not a luxury marque...but if they keep at it could one day in the future possibly complete, though I honestly don't ever see that happening.

The Viper? If it missed a mark its that is not drawing the new customer base they hoped...but the car is anything but a dude. More more upscale, refined, and still beastly and still considered one of the most exciting things to drive on a track.

Etc etc etc.

People who have hung up prejudices will always "not see" or refuse to see.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
So tell me, what am I missing?
Probably not a whole lot. They're probably better than you give them credit for but Sarlacc is as much a MOPAR apologist as I am an Audi fanboy.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:11 PM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
This is why I respect Ford the most out of the big 3 'Murican manufacturers that and their lineup has the most overall appeal anyway.

the bailout was a freaking joke.
Snore...I hear this so much...Ford happened to be in a better financial position...they are also the biggest of the 3.

Chrysler turned themselves around and greatly improved and increased profit of the 3 early on was able to repay their bailout much earlier than required.

I still don't agree with the bailout, period. But it happened..and a lot of good came with it for all of the big 3. They work and realized they needed to stop sucking.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:13 PM
  #427  
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Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
Probably not a whole lot. They're probably better than you give them credit for but Sarlaac is as much a MOPAR apologist as I am an Audi fanboy.
People just write them off with out a fair chance...some are coming around...lots of people on the board recently have gotten jeeps, chargers, etc and been very happy.

But I am far from a mopar or no car kind of guy, which people try and ignore. Hell, I have had a huge interest in the fiesta ST the last several months.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:15 PM
  #428  
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^^ In truth, Ford is on a better footing, and Chyco is as well thanks to Fiat.

However, GM is no better than they were before the bailout.
There is a ton of liabilities still on the books. The unions got bailed out, but everything still stays the same for GM. Sure, they got rid of "some" dead weight in bloated rebadging brands, but they still have plenty of albatrosses around their neck.

Chryco is what should have happened to GM....they should have been taken over.
The bailout for either brand should have never happened.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:21 PM
  #429  
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Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
Probably not a whole lot. They're probably better than you give them credit for but Sarlacc is as much a MOPAR apologist as I am an Audi fanboy.
Sure, Sarlacc loves the brand, but he is not kissing their @ss as you would think. He is speaking from experience.

Case in point: I used to all over Chryco product too....but that was well BEFORE they began to turn their products around. Hence, I would have NEVER purchased a Jeep before the turn around. The previous gen Jeep Grand Cherokee was a shinning example of Chrysler on wheels. However the current gen Jeep Grand Cherokee is the class leader, light years ahead of the former, inside and out, top to bottom.

...which is why I bought one.

Sometimes the old paradigms don't work anymore.

You should know, you are an Audi fanboy, and for decades Audi's were tastic products in terms of reliability/quality. However, they turned it around once VW took ownership.

....which is the same for Chryco....now that Fiat is at the helm, it's all changing for the better.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
Sure, Sarlacc loves the brand, but he is not kissing their @ss as you would think. He is speaking from experience.

Case in point: I used to all over Chryco product too....but that was well BEFORE they began to turn their products around. Hence, I would have NEVER purchased a Jeep before the turn around. The previous gen Jeep Grand Cherokee was a shinning example of Chrysler on wheels. However the current gen Jeep Grand Cherokee is the class leader, light years ahead of the former, inside and out, top to bottom.
I agree...but I would still take a last gen Jeep SRT in a heartbeat...I don't know a single person with one who hasn't the loved the hell out of it. Saying it was the most fun vehicles they ever owned.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:34 PM
  #431  
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Originally Posted by EhkoXC View Post
It's not just off of one model. Like I said in a previous post, I've ridden in 300s before (never driven one though) as well as various Jeeps and other Dodge products. I've taken the time to look at their cars at Autoshows.

Based on what I've seen, the company as a whole has a real problem, and they still do, and it goes deeper than just poor product planning. They need a top to bottom restart of the entire company, and I'm not quite sure they're ready to do that, they're instead content to chase the ideal of Chrysler as a luxury brand instead of fixing what needs to be fixed (powertrains, styling, quality of materials, quality of assembly, etc). Maybe Fiat will change that now that they're in charge, but I highly doubt it. They seem to be more interested in using Chrysler as a piggy bank.

I'd consider a Jeep product if I was looking for an SUV, but I wouldn't even give any of the other brands a second look. Even Jeep, I'm only really interested in the Grand Cherokee.
+1, bottom line Chrysler has been a dysfunctional company run by bean counters for decades and will continue to be so. Short-sighted vision with little commitment to long term planning. Occasionally innovative and in general good styling but basically skin-deep in terms of engineering, quality and durability.

They tend to let their models languish far beyond their design life cycle, then need another crisis to reinvent themselves. It's happened about every dozen or so years from the late 70's to current. The exec's talk about change in marketing and advertising but nothing real long term ever seems to happen at Chrysler. Their basic company culture and philosophy are nothing like The Toyota Way.

Doesn't matter if the company is run by Iaccoca, Greenwald, Eaton,... as soon as their business partner's see the overall operation they see the light whether it be Mitsubishi, Daimler-Benz, and soon Fiat.

The reason they were bought out by Fiat for the remaining 41% for only $4B is pretty obvious.

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Old 01-04-2014, 06:25 AM
  #432  
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc View Post
Snore...I hear this so much...Ford happened to be in a better financial position...they are also the biggest of the 3.
...
Ford is #2 in size compared to GM.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:47 AM
  #433  
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Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
Say what you want about their cars, Ford is a wholly-owned American corporation that took no bailout money.
+1, alot of cash and Mulally's leadership helped Ford steer away from bankruptcy, something I doubt Ford Jr. or Nasser could have done.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:55 AM
  #434  
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There are different ways to measure success but by most measures (profitability, sales) Chryco is doing very well. One can't say that the Dart or 200 is not a success because they don't sell Civic/Accord like numbers. Mazda is doing just fine with a fraction of their sales. The reviews for most models have been very good and sales have followed - they don't have to get to Ford/Honda/Toyota levels to be successful.
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Old 01-04-2014, 10:27 AM
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They need to revamp Chrysler's model lineup in the US. I know Dodge doesn't exist in other countries, but Chrysler is just redundant at the moment. I guess Chrysler resonates more than Pontiac, but how many people would really care if it died off?

Other thing I guess is that Chrysler is the parent company's name...
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
They need to revamp Chrysler's model lineup in the US. I know Dodge doesn't exist in other countries, but Chrysler is just redundant at the moment. I guess Chrysler resonates more than Pontiac, but how many people would really care if it died off?

Other thing I guess is that Chrysler is the parent company's name...
They are working on that. Marichonne came out a year or two ago and said and said they are working to get rid of the amount of twin/redundant vehicles through out the line ups.

When the Caravan/Town and Country end their run...Chrysler is working on some of new crossover to replace it, while dodge will continue with a traditional minivan.

I don't know if the charger/300 will ever go in two separate directions...but it would be interesting.

And aside from the avenger/200...there isn't too much redundancy anymore...not compared to GM by any means.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Jeep set global sales record in 2013
Chrysler's Jeep brand has set an all-time record with 731,565 global sales in 2013. Last year was the second consecutive year that Jeep has broken its own annual sales record.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-set...#ixzz2pepsVBlV

...but I thought Fiat/Marichonne couldn't change company "culture and philosophy"...
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:04 PM
  #438  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
Jeep set global sales record in 2013


http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-set...#ixzz2pepsVBlV

...but I thought Fiat/Marichonne couldn't change company "culture and philosophy"...
Short term people only see short term results.

Come back in ten years and see where they are. If their history repeats as they did in 80's, 90's, and 00's they'll be in a ditch again.
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:38 PM
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^^ Past Performance Is Not an Indication of Future Results
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S View Post
^^ Past Performance Is Not an Indication of Future Results
Given Chrysler's tendency to leap right back into the ditch after someone pulls them out, I think declaring them back is extremely premature.
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