"Do or die for Saturn"
01-07-2005, 04:15 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Junkster
The talk of killing off Mercury has been around for the last decade, and yet Ford keeps it alive... I dont' get it.
Saturn could be the quirky one of the family... the one that takes chances with design styles. Citroen... seriously...
Junkster, who thinks Pontiac needs a real GTO for image
Saturn could be the quirky one of the family... the one that takes chances with design styles. Citroen... seriously...
Junkster, who thinks Pontiac needs a real GTO for image
As for the GTO, I agree, but I think GM needs to stop holding out and ship the much more aggressive looking HSV models instead of the plain-jane Holden models if they want to really offer a GTO with appeal.
01-07-2005, 04:17 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Junkster
I think it's totally US exclusive now.
Junkster, who thinks turning Mercury into sporty would take alot of work
Junkster, who thinks turning Mercury into sporty would take alot of work
01-07-2005, 04:19 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
GM already has Saab for quirky and the Saab customer base is much more loyal (though that might change if the GM folks continue to upset them with the new designs).
As for the GTO, I agree, but I think GM needs to stop holding out and ship the much more aggressive looking HSV models instead of the plain-jane Holden models if they want to really offer a GTO with appeal.
As for the GTO, I agree, but I think GM needs to stop holding out and ship the much more aggressive looking HSV models instead of the plain-jane Holden models if they want to really offer a GTO with appeal.
I think it's a disgrace that GM can't fork over the money to create a true GTO, not just another rebadge.
I'm sick of rebadging without serious differences... I mean, what's the difference between a Ford Five Hundred and Mercury "whatever"? Yea, some cosmetic touches, but no mechanical or driving differences at all. And they totally look like one another...
Junkster, who even has a bit of problem with the G35/300Z
01-07-2005, 04:21 PM
#46
I'm the Firestarter
I totally agree that GM has too many brands. Some of them are completely useless, they've been eliminating those but it's not enough.
Saturn and Pontiac both suffer from ugly designs IMO, they try to be different but they just end up being tacky. Pontiac's designs are pretty hopeless with the ugly grille they are forced to stick to, you couldn't pay me to drive one of their cars.
Cadillac are the ones who are doing something right IMO, they have a weird design but I think it's kind of cool. The CTS has good performance and it's probably the only domestic I would consider buying (that is until I read about the reliability issues that most likely are there).
Saturn and Pontiac both suffer from ugly designs IMO, they try to be different but they just end up being tacky. Pontiac's designs are pretty hopeless with the ugly grille they are forced to stick to, you couldn't pay me to drive one of their cars.
Cadillac are the ones who are doing something right IMO, they have a weird design but I think it's kind of cool. The CTS has good performance and it's probably the only domestic I would consider buying (that is until I read about the reliability issues that most likely are there).
01-07-2005, 04:23 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by domn
My guess is that a big part of the story is that people don't like the names "Mercury", "Olsmobile" or "Buick".
Mercury has nothing to offer... what, the Mountaineer? Why don't I just buy a nice Explorer or a juiced up Aviator? Why would I stay RIGHT in the middle? Plus, it doesn't even look better then the Explorer.
Buick... Tiger Woods drives it... along with my 80 year old neighor... and domn.
Junkster, who Really thinks Buick has the heritage to go a bit more upper class or performance
01-07-2005, 04:25 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Junkster
Saab is expensive... I talking about something like Citreon entry models, or even kinda like Scion... you know, marketed towards the youth and the hip.
I think it's a disgrace that GM can't fork over the money to create a true GTO, not just another rebadge.
I'm sick of rebadging without serious differences... I mean, what's the difference between a Ford Five Hundred and Mercury "whatever"? Yea, some cosmetic touches, but no mechanical or driving differences at all. And they totally look like one another...
Junkster, who even has a bit of problem with the G35/300Z
I think it's a disgrace that GM can't fork over the money to create a true GTO, not just another rebadge.
I'm sick of rebadging without serious differences... I mean, what's the difference between a Ford Five Hundred and Mercury "whatever"? Yea, some cosmetic touches, but no mechanical or driving differences at all. And they totally look like one another...
Junkster, who even has a bit of problem with the G35/300Z
And while I agree with you about the rebadging, one thing I'm willing to accept is rebadging of cars not originally available for sale in the US and then making them available.
01-07-2005, 04:25 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Junkster
True... I can't imagine driving an Olds... although the Aurora was an interesting car.
I remember when Olds had Cindy Crawford as a model for I think the Intrigue?
01-07-2005, 04:28 PM
#50
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Bezle's right... Caddie took a chance, but into the right direction. Quality materials is another thing that comes into the design of cars.
Unfortunetly, US makers have contracts with suppliers that make that nearly impossible.
Junkster, who thinks US suppliers partially hold US brands down
Unfortunetly, US makers have contracts with suppliers that make that nearly impossible.
Junkster, who thinks US suppliers partially hold US brands down
01-07-2005, 04:30 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Junkster
Bezle's right... Caddie took a chance, but into the right direction. Quality materials is another thing that comes into the design of cars.
Unfortunetly, US makers have contracts with suppliers that make that nearly impossible.
Junkster, who thinks US suppliers partially hold US brands down
Unfortunetly, US makers have contracts with suppliers that make that nearly impossible.
Junkster, who thinks US suppliers partially hold US brands down
I think we need a man like Carlos Ghosn to come in an shake things up in the US auto industry...
01-07-2005, 04:30 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
And while I agree with you about the rebadging, one thing I'm willing to accept is rebadging of cars not originally available for sale in the US and then making them available.
Kinda like the TSX?
Junkster, who thinks the GTO is still a disgrace
01-07-2005, 04:32 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
And don't forget the unions.
I think we need a man like Carlos Ghosn to come in an shake things up in the US auto industry...
I think we need a man like Carlos Ghosn to come in an shake things up in the US auto industry...
They would throw a hissy fit.
The unions and suppliers need to shape up. They are making their companies less competitive... it's time to start sucking it up and cinching up the belt a bit.
Junkster, who thinks US workers are spoiled
01-07-2005, 04:39 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Junkster
Kinda like the TSX?
Junkster, who thinks the GTO is still a disgrace
I think the GTO wasn't fully developed to meet the demands of the American market before it was released. Bob Lutz was in too much of a hurry to bring a car over that he could use and didn't take the time to do the necessary research to make sure the car would be suitable to the tastes of the US consumer. Plus, I think a full reskin should have been done instead of the minor facial, which didn't really change much.
Personally, I think the GTO drive train is great, but they should have been able to price it significantly cheaper.
01-07-2005, 04:39 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Junkster
Oh gawd... can you imagine the unions and suppliers having to restructure like they did at Nissan in Japan?
They would throw a hissy fit.
The unions and suppliers need to shape up. They are making their companies less competitive... it's time to start sucking it up and cinching up the belt a bit.
Junkster, who thinks US workers are spoiled
They would throw a hissy fit.
The unions and suppliers need to shape up. They are making their companies less competitive... it's time to start sucking it up and cinching up the belt a bit.
Junkster, who thinks US workers are spoiled
01-07-2005, 04:42 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Exactly.
I think the GTO wasn't fully developed to meet the demands of the American market before it was released. Bob Lutz was in too much of a hurry to bring a car over that he could use and didn't take the time to do the necessary research to make sure the car would be suitable to the tastes of the US consumer. Plus, I think a full reskin should have been done instead of the minor facial, which didn't really change much.
Personally, I think the GTO drive train is great, but they should have been able to price it significantly cheaper.
I think the GTO wasn't fully developed to meet the demands of the American market before it was released. Bob Lutz was in too much of a hurry to bring a car over that he could use and didn't take the time to do the necessary research to make sure the car would be suitable to the tastes of the US consumer. Plus, I think a full reskin should have been done instead of the minor facial, which didn't really change much.
Personally, I think the GTO drive train is great, but they should have been able to price it significantly cheaper.
Junkster, who agrees it should be about 5k cheaper
01-07-2005, 04:59 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
How about it. We take one brand each in GMs line-up and pull Carlos Ghosn's. 
With all the failing/struggling groups...
Mitsu...
GM (and all US/original sub-badges)...
Ford (ditto as GM)...
Isuzu...
Junkster, who would like those thread
01-07-2005, 05:28 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Junkster
Junkster, who agrees it should be about 5k cheaper
Don't forget, GM is the company that came up with the "Buy one, get one free" deal last year.
01-07-2005, 05:36 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by TSX Hokie
Go to your local Pontiac dealer at the end of the month and say "sell me that GTO for $5k off MSRP". I'm sure the salesman won't even blink before handing you the paperwork.
Don't forget, GM is the company that came up with the "Buy one, get one free" deal last year.
Don't forget, GM is the company that came up with the "Buy one, get one free" deal last year.
But personaly, I wouldn't buy it... a rebadging of a classic is pretty lame.
hehe... I remember the local Ford dealer had that... "Buy an Expedition, get a Focus Free"
Junkster, who wonders if Honda would run that... Buy a Accord, get a Civic Free
01-07-2005, 05:41 PM
#63
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I cant wait to see the new dodge charger.DaimlerChrysler is the only one doing it right for dometics right now.They ditched the plymouth brand focused on there good products.I can see chrysler out selling gm to the baby boomers anyday.Now they just have to can mitsubishi and bring back some more classic name like the cuda.
Ford has some great sub brands like volvo/aston martin/mazda/jaguar.
Ford has some great sub brands like volvo/aston martin/mazda/jaguar.
01-07-2005, 05:42 PM
#64
I feel the need...
GM has way too many 'brands' to maintain. If they were smart, they'd kill Buick and Saturn. I think one of the reasons why Toyota and Honda do well is because they only have one 'brand' to build, along with the subsequent engineering and marketing costs.
If I were in charge of GM I'd position:
Daewoo: Econoboxes
Chevrolet: Value
Pontiac: Sporty
GMC: Trucks
Cadillac: Upscale
Saab: European Style
Hummer: Boutique
If I were in charge of GM I'd position:
Daewoo: Econoboxes
Chevrolet: Value
Pontiac: Sporty
GMC: Trucks
Cadillac: Upscale
Saab: European Style
Hummer: Boutique
01-07-2005, 06:40 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
GM has way too many 'brands' to maintain. If they were smart, they'd kill Buick and Saturn. I think one of the reasons why Toyota and Honda do well is because they only have one 'brand' to build, along with the subsequent engineering and marketing costs.
01-07-2005, 06:44 PM
#68
I feel the need...
(Acura, Lexus, Scion)
Let me re-qualify: One value brand, and one premium brand - it's simply a much more efficient strategy of using limited resources. One only need to look at VW to see how to f*ck up this strategy.
Toyota, if they're not carefull - could eventually overextend just like GM.
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