"Do or die for Saturn"
01-07-2005, 01:01 PM
#1
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"Do or die for Saturn"
"DETROIT -- General Motors Corp.'s Saturn division, once the model for a progressive new car brand, came perilously close to ending up on the scrap heap next to Oldsmobile.
As GM executives weighed a death sentence a few years ago, they balanced its skimpy product line, mounting losses and swooning sales against its still-solid image with buyers and standout dealer network.
"We had to look at continuing with the exact same thing we were doing, or exiting, which we had to look at," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in an interview this week.
Ultimately, the automaker committed last summer to dig deep into its corporate kitty and make one more big push to turn Saturn into a healthy brand that delivers cars and SUVs to match its sales and service quality."
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins.../A01-53370.htm
As GM executives weighed a death sentence a few years ago, they balanced its skimpy product line, mounting losses and swooning sales against its still-solid image with buyers and standout dealer network.
"We had to look at continuing with the exact same thing we were doing, or exiting, which we had to look at," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in an interview this week.
Ultimately, the automaker committed last summer to dig deep into its corporate kitty and make one more big push to turn Saturn into a healthy brand that delivers cars and SUVs to match its sales and service quality."
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins.../A01-53370.htm
01-07-2005, 01:52 PM
#3
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Wow - I had no idea Saturn was so close to the chopping block. It's not the type of car of lot of us would have, but it sure is a good reliable car for the price as long as you are just looking for point A to point B. Interesting.
I know like 3 people with 200K+ Saturns that are still going strong.
I know like 3 people with 200K+ Saturns that are still going strong.
01-07-2005, 01:55 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Saturn's are so boring. I think they'd probably sell even better if there was a Maytag logo on their hood.
ya I agree. And I would never buy one. But I would think there would be SOME market for this type of car
01-07-2005, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DEI99662
I am banking on the Saturn brand to die out.
01-07-2005, 02:28 PM
#7
I'm with Dan about the Saturn's being boring. It also doesn't help that they insist on those weird design quarks like the center mount gauges and the hideous, bumper-car style steering wheel. The only good thing I can think of it the dent-resistant door panels, but there are so many other things that can happen to those that it's not worth the aggravation.
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01-07-2005, 03:17 PM
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01-07-2005, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
I'm with Dan about the Saturn's being boring. It also doesn't help that they insist on those weird design quarks like the center mount gauges and the hideous, bumper-car style steering wheel. The only good thing I can think of it the dent-resistant door panels, but there are so many other things that can happen to those that it's not worth the aggravation.
Then, they just reverted back to how the parent badge does cars... boring, with nothing to offer that would separate it from it's platform cousins...
I seriously thought that Saturn could have been the US version of Citreon... you know, whacky love-it-or-hate-it designs that had to be noticed. Citroen makes use of center stack alot as well. Saturn was the brand that GM could have taken chances with in terms of design and engineering... like hybrid technology line-up... instead, it's just another sub-badge of the company.
Junkster, who thought Saturns were neat when they first came out
01-07-2005, 03:49 PM
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Saturn will probably be chopped GM has enough to worry about with chrysler becoming a power in the domestics again.I think it would be a good idea to chop saturn and put more money into there core brands.
I hear mitsubishi is on the verge of being shut down too.
I hear mitsubishi is on the verge of being shut down too.
01-07-2005, 03:50 PM
#13
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Saturn Sky sports car slated for 2006 production
2007 Saturn Sky
2007 Saturn Sky
Click image to enlarge
More Photos
Detroit, Michigan - Saturn will reveal a new two-seat sports car, slated for production in 2006, at the 2005 North American International Auto Show. The Sky roadster was inspired by the Vauxhall VX Lightning Concept designed by GM's Advanced Design Studio in Birmingham, England.
The Sky's low-slung design features a wide stance with short overhangs and 18-inch wheels pushed to the corners. The convertible top disappears beneath a hard rear tonneau cover with raised tunnels behind the driver and passenger.
"The Sky's performance matches its impressive styling," said Lori Queen, vehicle line executive for GM's small cars. "Powertrain, suspension and handling components were carefully selected to provide quick and agile performance."
The Sky is equipped with a 170-horsepower 2.4 litre 4 cylinder Ecotec engine with variable valve timing mated to a five-speed Aisin manual transmission with a short throw shifter. A five-speed automatic will be optional.
Other technical highlights include:
* Near 50/50 weight distribution for balanced handling feel
* Four-wheel independent short/long arm suspension
* Coil-over Bilstein monotube shocks
* Hydraulically assisted rack-and-pinion power steering
* Four-wheel disc brakes with ABS
* Structural tunnel design and hydroformed longitudinal rails for a stiff body that results in greater vehicle responsiveness
* Hydraulic engine mounts for a smoother engine feel
The Sky roadster will influence other Saturn vehicle designs, said the division's Vice-President of Design, Ed Welburn.
"The vehicle's strong front end is the new face of Saturn, with a pronounced fender peak and a bold, chrome bar that carries an integrated Saturn badge," said Welburn.
The starting price for the Sky is expected to be less than U.S.$25,000. It will be built at GM's Wilmington, Delaware assembly facility.
2007 Saturn Sky
2007 Saturn Sky
Click image to enlarge
More Photos
Detroit, Michigan - Saturn will reveal a new two-seat sports car, slated for production in 2006, at the 2005 North American International Auto Show. The Sky roadster was inspired by the Vauxhall VX Lightning Concept designed by GM's Advanced Design Studio in Birmingham, England.
The Sky's low-slung design features a wide stance with short overhangs and 18-inch wheels pushed to the corners. The convertible top disappears beneath a hard rear tonneau cover with raised tunnels behind the driver and passenger.
"The Sky's performance matches its impressive styling," said Lori Queen, vehicle line executive for GM's small cars. "Powertrain, suspension and handling components were carefully selected to provide quick and agile performance."
The Sky is equipped with a 170-horsepower 2.4 litre 4 cylinder Ecotec engine with variable valve timing mated to a five-speed Aisin manual transmission with a short throw shifter. A five-speed automatic will be optional.
Other technical highlights include:
* Near 50/50 weight distribution for balanced handling feel
* Four-wheel independent short/long arm suspension
* Coil-over Bilstein monotube shocks
* Hydraulically assisted rack-and-pinion power steering
* Four-wheel disc brakes with ABS
* Structural tunnel design and hydroformed longitudinal rails for a stiff body that results in greater vehicle responsiveness
* Hydraulic engine mounts for a smoother engine feel
The Sky roadster will influence other Saturn vehicle designs, said the division's Vice-President of Design, Ed Welburn.
"The vehicle's strong front end is the new face of Saturn, with a pronounced fender peak and a bold, chrome bar that carries an integrated Saturn badge," said Welburn.
The starting price for the Sky is expected to be less than U.S.$25,000. It will be built at GM's Wilmington, Delaware assembly facility.
Not too shabby...
01-07-2005, 03:52 PM
#15
Hmm...bears a resemblance to the Opel/Vauxhall Speedster, though without the targa style roof. Based off the same platform as the Solstice. Not bad. I think the XLR style vent in front of the doors and the Porsche style front turn signals are a nice touch.
01-07-2005, 03:54 PM
#17
Originally Posted by domn
Saturn Aura
01-07-2005, 03:55 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
This won't look like this when it goes into production. The lines will get toned down, the front won't be quite so aggressive, andd the wheels will be steel wheels with covers. It'll get watered down just like most Saturns. I wouldn't expect anything less of the Sky, either.
01-07-2005, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by stuckthrotle
Saturn will probably be chopped GM has enough to worry about with chrysler becoming a power in the domestics again.I think it would be a good idea to chop saturn and put more money into there core brands.
I hear mitsubishi is on the verge of being shut down too.
I hear mitsubishi is on the verge of being shut down too.
GM needs to trim down it's sub badges... Saturn is one option, but also Buick and Pontiac as well. Buick, because it really can't compete as a entry-luxury with it's current lineup. Pontiac is trying to be the sporty brand, but seems to be lacking any momentum to convert the market segment (young middle income singles) from BMWs and Audi's.
Junkster, who thinks Ford might be a bit better aligned at this point
01-07-2005, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
The Sky looks very similar to the Pontiac Solstace.
Junkster, who would have thought that Dan would know that
01-07-2005, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Hmm...bears a resemblance to the Opel/Vauxhall Speedster, though without the targa style roof. Based off the same platform as the Solstice. Not bad. I think the XLR style vent in front of the doors and the Porsche style front turn signals are a nice touch.
There used to be talk of the Speedster being brought to the US under one of the GM badges... not a redesign, but JUST a rebadge... wonder what happened to that idea?
Junkster, whose dream is to own a Alfa
01-07-2005, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fdl
I give them an A for effort.
But that roadster seems oddly out of place in their lineup. Not sure who would buy one.
But that roadster seems oddly out of place in their lineup. Not sure who would buy one.
Junkster, who thinks Saturn is just becoming another re-badge brand
01-07-2005, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
:'(
But I mean seriously, Buick is suppose to be a entry-lux brand (just a notch below Caddie) and yet has no real car that would bring in the target market of young luxury car buyers... And it has to fight against the CTS for that entry market, even though they have no car that is matched up against it performance/personality-wise.
At least they got rid of Olds.
Junkster, who thinks Buick should be changed to the performance-entry lux cars.
01-07-2005, 04:04 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Junkster
Oops, I forgot...
But I mean seriously, Buick is suppose to be a entry-lux brand (just a notch below Caddie) and yet has no real car that would bring in the target market of young luxury car buyers... And it has to fight against the CTS for that entry market, even though they have no car that is matched up against it performance/personality-wise.
At least they got rid of Olds.
Junkster, who thinks Buick should be changed to the performance-entry lux cars.
But I mean seriously, Buick is suppose to be a entry-lux brand (just a notch below Caddie) and yet has no real car that would bring in the target market of young luxury car buyers... And it has to fight against the CTS for that entry market, even though they have no car that is matched up against it performance/personality-wise.
At least they got rid of Olds.
Junkster, who thinks Buick should be changed to the performance-entry lux cars.
I disagree. I think they should continue catering to the old. Big boring cars that ride nice and are plain and simple. Caddy is better positioned to take on entry level performance.
01-07-2005, 04:06 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by domn
I disagree. I think they should continue catering to the old. Big boring cars that ride nice and are plain and simple.
Thats an interesting point. With the aging baby boomers this market will be huge.
01-07-2005, 04:06 PM
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quirky is good sometimes, but the Saturn ION Redline they just put out designed like the Neon SRT4 also has the center stack gauges. Its hard to imagine a "performance" car with no gauges at all in front of the driver (Mini's speedometer excluded) 
And that roadster looks like an Elise
And that roadster looks like an Elise
01-07-2005, 04:07 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Junkster
Mitsu is contemplating exiting US market... they probably will stay in their domestic market... although that should eat up alot of capital.
GM needs to trim down it's sub badges... Saturn is one option, but also Buick and Pontiac as well. Buick, because it really can't compete as a entry-luxury with it's current lineup. Pontiac is trying to be the sporty brand, but seems to be lacking any momentum to convert the market segment (young middle income singles) from BMWs and Audi's.
Junkster, who thinks Ford might be a bit better aligned at this point
GM needs to trim down it's sub badges... Saturn is one option, but also Buick and Pontiac as well. Buick, because it really can't compete as a entry-luxury with it's current lineup. Pontiac is trying to be the sporty brand, but seems to be lacking any momentum to convert the market segment (young middle income singles) from BMWs and Audi's.
Junkster, who thinks Ford might be a bit better aligned at this point
As for GM, they need to stop spreading themselves so thin. The Buick brand has a solid following in the retirees category, so they should concentrate the brand toward that demographic. Pontiac, with the recent adjustment in design away from the body cladding, has a solid chance at becoming an excitement brand, but GM has to be willing to step away from the old pushrod engine design and join the rest of the industry. Saturn might as well die off because it just is largely unloved. GM has a lot of options and it needs to exercise some of them soon to prevent the continued bleeding of market share (it would also help if their cars weren't so poorly manufactured).
01-07-2005, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
I disagree. I think they should continue catering to the old. Big boring cars that ride nice and are plain and simple. Caddy is better positioned to take on entry level performance.
Buick drivers are dying out... literally. They need to move to a segment instead of being a cheaper luxury brand with nothing special to offer.
The youth are already moving onto Euro and Japanese badges... you think they'll go to Buick when they start growing old? I doubt that...
Although you are totally bucking the system
Junkster, who thinks Buick could actually be saved
01-07-2005, 04:09 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Junkster
Which reminds me...
There used to be talk of the Speedster being brought to the US under one of the GM badges... not a redesign, but JUST a rebadge... wonder what happened to that idea?
Junkster, whose dream is to own a Alfa
There used to be talk of the Speedster being brought to the US under one of the GM badges... not a redesign, but JUST a rebadge... wonder what happened to that idea?
Junkster, whose dream is to own a Alfa
01-07-2005, 04:10 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ford, unfortunately, has been nursing the ailing Mercury brand for years with mediocre products and warmed over Fords. I think Ford needs to stop trying to uphold the mid-level luxury in the Mercury brand or drop the brand all together. Perhaps turn Mercury into a sporting division, Ford the daily drivers, and Lincoln the luxury cars.
As for GM, they need to stop spreading themselves so thin. The Buick brand has a solid following in the retirees category, so they should concentrate the brand toward that demographic. Pontiac, with the recent adjustment in design away from the body cladding, has a solid chance at becoming an excitement brand, but GM has to be willing to step away from the old pushrod engine design and join the rest of the industry. Saturn might as well die off because it just is largely unloved. GM has a lot of options and it needs to exercise some of them soon to prevent the continued bleeding of market share (it would also help if their cars weren't so poorly manufactured).
As for GM, they need to stop spreading themselves so thin. The Buick brand has a solid following in the retirees category, so they should concentrate the brand toward that demographic. Pontiac, with the recent adjustment in design away from the body cladding, has a solid chance at becoming an excitement brand, but GM has to be willing to step away from the old pushrod engine design and join the rest of the industry. Saturn might as well die off because it just is largely unloved. GM has a lot of options and it needs to exercise some of them soon to prevent the continued bleeding of market share (it would also help if their cars weren't so poorly manufactured).
Saturn could be the quirky one of the family... the one that takes chances with design styles. Citroen... seriously...
Junkster, who thinks Pontiac needs a real GTO for image
01-07-2005, 04:11 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Junkster
That what Olds was doing... and they faired horribly.
Buick drivers are dying out... literally. They need to move to a segment instead of being a cheaper luxury brand with nothing special to offer.
The youth are already moving onto Euro and Japanese badges... you think they'll go to Buick when they start growing old? I doubt that...
Although you are totally bucking the system
Junkster, who thinks Buick could actually be saved
Buick drivers are dying out... literally. They need to move to a segment instead of being a cheaper luxury brand with nothing special to offer.
The youth are already moving onto Euro and Japanese badges... you think they'll go to Buick when they start growing old? I doubt that...
Although you are totally bucking the system
Junkster, who thinks Buick could actually be saved
I don't look at names and badges when I buy cars
01-07-2005, 04:11 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Was supposed to come over in the Pontiac product line. The idea was put on hold when Bob Lutz took over and created the concept of the Solstice based on the Kappa platform.
Junkster, who thinks Lutz hasn't turned the company around just yet
01-07-2005, 04:12 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Junkster
The talk of killing off Mercury has been around for the last decade, and yet Ford keeps it alive... I dont' get it.
Saturn could be the quirky one of the family... the one that takes chances with design styles. Citroen... seriously...
Junkster, who thinks Pontiac needs a real GTO for image
Saturn could be the quirky one of the family... the one that takes chances with design styles. Citroen... seriously...
Junkster, who thinks Pontiac needs a real GTO for image
Mercury is dead in Canada. Have been for a few years now.
01-07-2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by matelot
I think one of the PWs round here whose old ride was a soory-looking Saturn 
I had a reliable SL that I miss 0% of. It held together though.
01-07-2005, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
Mercury is dead in Canada. Have been for a few years now.
Junkster, who thinks turning Mercury into sporty would take alot of work