Kwijybo19

Well hello everyone. Long time viewer, first time poster.

First the background. I'm 17 and am helping my mother pick out a new car to replace her beloved 1995 Accord EX Sedan 5-speed with 150k miles. (I have a 1999 Civic EX Sedan 5-speed with 78k). We went to the Acura dealer because she is interested in the TSX, especially the comparisons that have been made to it being a four-door Prelude (RIP). She always says she would have gotten one if she didn't have me. So, we went there to look, but there were no 6-speeds on the lot to test. Too bad. The dealer took her information and such and then said the following after I asked him if production was going to be increased because soon the 15,000 units will be gone.

"Actually, in Japan, Honda is testing a prototype version of a future Acura TSX type-S."
"Any information on it?" I queried.
"It has 260 hp and the usual type-S enhancements."
"Oh really?? Out of the same 2.4 liter 4?"
"Yes. Only Honda..." he replied.

The guy seemed very informative and didn't seem to be guessing at all and was very confident. Sounds a little iffy, but who knows??

By the way, we're looking for a Black on ebony 6-speed with navi.

larchmont

Better not let Provench find out about this.

RJC RSX

i can't believe they could squeeze out 60hp more out of the same displacement motor. 220 maybe...then again, "only Honda..."

SPUDMTN

Not to rag on you...but this subject has been brought up a few times and it sounds like the sales person didn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. Sounds more than a little iffy to me...I think the general consensus around here is that the Type-S model line is being fazed out.

Anyway, welcome to the board. Do a search on TSX Type-S (or just browse through this News & Rumors sub forum) to find other threads about this. I think it's nothing but a dream...


SPUDMTN

PS--260 hp from the 2.4 liter 4? Umm...okay...

larchmont

Maybe it's a 5.

ProZach

yea, I'd pull out the

TinkySD

yeah BS. If you assume honda was somehow able to keep near peak torque(175lbft) somehow at the 7100 rpm redline you'd have only 237hp. The chances of that are unlikely let alone 260 hp.

EmuMessenger

Sounds like fun, but in another thread, Justin said flat out the Type-S moniker is dying and it will RIP with the RSX.

Yui

Err... why not 260 hp out of a 2.4? I don't think they'll come out with a type S, but are you saying that NA 260 hp is something we'll never achieve as enthusiasts, Tinky? I imagine 100 hp/liter is feasible for Honda - why not 108.3?

sparky57

Have you guys ever heard of the Honda S2000? 240 hp from 2 liters. Yes, Virginia that works out to 120 hp/liter. My '94 Magna cruiser puts out 106 per liter.

Not at all unusual for Honda motors. I'm waiting a year or so to trade my '99 TL for a TSX. I suspect the hot version will be something more like 225 hp though to keep the torque up.

rw

Stash

ha ha---what a load of crap

Kwijybo19

Ya, that's exactly what I figured... a load of BS.
I then asked the dealer if he had heard the rumors that Acura would be dropping the type-s moniker and that it was only something used as a transition, and he said no, I haven't heard anything.

From reading this board constantly, I knew that most likely he had no idea what he was talking about, but I thought it would be fun to post this ''rumor'' anyway.

By the way, when I was there, I saw a customer's ''car'' being taken in for service. A 1996 Black NSX 6-speed manual, with lots of Comptech go-fast goodies, including a supercharger!! 18'' Volk Racing wheels, with super low-profile rubber, and brembo brake calipers... including two calipers on the two front wheels...

I almost dropped dead.

jackspat2

Yes, Thank you for the info. We'll put it with the others. This is why we have a Rumor thread thingy. As you can see, we're still skeptical about any Type S on the TSX. I think it may be because people think it's too good to believe or what Justin has said. I find it skeptical also, but an inline 5 would the great on the TSX in my opinion, if they can lighten things up. Thanks again and stick around. We need more 17 and 16 year olds to give these middle aged guys a hard time

jackspat2

That would make it a 3 liter if they stuck to the same engine config.

provench

Ok - you guys are just trying to get me excited

But we all know there will be no more Type S ... just a Type R

SPUDMTN

We need to show these adults that we really DO know it all... :P :P :P


SPUDMTN

moreace_RENAMED

ok ok
I forget the old posts
and u all damn well know I am too lazy to search
seeing as the TL is bumped up to 275
w/ mebbe a type S or more powerful version coming out
so u think we could see the 240 hp (I think, or 260 mebbe) Accord V6 being inlcuded in a higher model TSX in the future?

swami

You people play the 5-cylinder thing off too easy. If you would have seen the MotoGP race today on Speed, you would have seen the all conquering RC211V. It's Honda's performance flagship motorcycle, V-5, 225 hp, exhaust note to die for. If your a motorcycle afficionado like me, you know when the 4-strokes were allowed, most manufactures took the usual route, an inline-4, a V-4. Honda said we've done those already, we need a challenge, hence the V-5. This bike is dominating the MotoGP World Championship for the second year in a row. In a nutshell, it would make an incredible car engine, gobs of torque and 225+ HP. I'll take one.

moreace_RENAMED

All of this is DEF not for this Oct, right? 05 at absolute earliest
mebbe it is just a really good secret

phile

That sounds incredible. I know the old Vigor had 5 cylinders too. I wonder why Acura, and practically everyone else, use only even numbers of cylinders (4,6,8,10,12)?

SPUDMTN

Good question. I think that the 5-cylinder even made it into the 2.5TL. I think that this model had problems w/ burning oil, however.

Currently, I know that Volvo uses a 5-cylinder engine in all the S60s and V70s, save for the R. I think I've also heard of a 7-cylinder diesel that Land Rover offers over in Europe. Ohhh...and Audi used to put 5-cylinder engines in some of their cars--the 100 for sure, and I think some other models.


SPUDMTN

rb1

I believe it has to do with engine balance and how the various cylinder and other moving part motions cancel each other out.

An I6, by the way. Is the only engine with 8 or fewer cylinders that is inherently perfectly balanced.

The other engines (especially I4) require tricks like balance shafts, dual-mass flywheels, etc. to smooth over the resulting vibration especially at higher RPM.

I'm not sure where an I5 fits in in, but I believe the others would rank I6, V8, V6, I4 from most to least balanced. I'd guess the I5 is between the V6 and I4.

TinkySD

caveat: I only know what i've read online so I may be incorrect. If anyone knows please step in.

The first part of engine smoothness is the number of cylinders regardless of configuration. a v8 for example has a power stroke 8 times per revolution of the crank shaft where as a 4 cylinder only has 4 power strokes per revolution. Obviously the more power strokes there are the the smoother the rotation will be...especially in contrast to eh more pulsating 4.

Secondly the engine confiuration is key and this is teh part i'm fuzzy on. Inline motors(even 4s and 5s) are inherently balanced along their axis. You run into issues depending on if the engine is mounted front to back(longitudanally) or transversely(side to side). Most I4s are mounted transverseley to save space. That coupled with their pulsating power strokes leads to needing balance shafts to smooth out the vibration. I6 engines are the best 6 cylinder configuation in terms of efficiency + weight savings. However they take ALOT of space comparatively. That's why cars like the 3 series and is300 are very small inside when compared to their rivals of similar dimensions(lots of space devoted to the engine bay). V8s and v6s also have some balance issues, though slightly different. They can vary depending on the angle of the "vee". The more frequent powerstrokes help smooth them out along with balance shafts.

So all in all most people would rate the smoothness of motors by feel exactly how rb1 did. However you do have to take each motor on it's own merits as even motors that share a configuration can have major NVH differences.

DEVO

your dealer is full of crap.

The acura TSX or Honda Accord to the rest of the world, is a Honda Accord Type S. If any country is going to get a more powerful version it will be the JDM market. In fact they already do have a more powerful version known as the Euro R Honda Accord.

kurt_bradley

I also agree that the associate that you spoke to at your dealer was a little bit off when it comes to his information. There has been no confirmation of any new engine/new model to the TSX. There has also been no saying of anything about development of any changes. Our company keeps their items in R&D strictly confidential. There is no way some random salesperson just happens to have this information that no one else does. The person probably just reads posts on forums and then makes his/her own assumptions. It's sad that there are sales associates out there that will misinform potential customers in this manner. It really kills credibility in a hurry when you blatently lie to people for no good reason.

larchmont

It's funny how we show our personalities with just some ink on a page.

How interesting is it that this is Kurt's way of repeating what the others said, which everyone else phrased as "full of ****"?

You're a nice guy, Kurt.

rb1

Yup. Nice elaboration there.

As I recall, the other issue is that for each "plane" of cylinders (I's have 1, V's have 2), it helps to have a piston hit TDC the same time another one hits BDC so their motions cancel each other out. Obviously V6's and I5's can't do this. For a V6, though there will be some cancelling effect from the opposing V but the V itself is not balanced along the axis (nor is the V8). An I6 gets the best of all of these.

I don't think transverse vs. longitudinal mounting makes much difference.

Stash

DEVO

what a fucking dick... i've been saying this since the TSX came out.