Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) Program News

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Old 01-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
VCM is smoke and mirrors.
That's all they need to improve their CAFE average. Real world doesn't matter as long as it has a high rating in government fuel economy test . It's about survival now especially in these economic times.
Old 01-26-2009, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishy
Actually... they do. The Detroit 3 have been spending big money on lobbyists for decades to stop any legislation requiring them to produce more fuel efficient vehicles and less gass guzzlers. The problem is that the guzzlers are more profitable and are the only way they can pay the UAW bastages. The D3 already have very fuel efficient cars, but they suck and are not profitable.

So the "retooling" cost and R&D funding talk is a bunch of steaming bull doo doo. The UAW needs to die a horrible death so more money can be spent on nicer fuel efficient cars, i.e. cars that can sell well and make money.
This not just about fuel efficiency but emissions. Cars are not the worst polluter in CA nor anywhere else. And it's just not the fact that this may lead to more regulations, but varied regulations from state to state. Different fuel formulations already make gas more expensive than it should be - this will do the same but on grander scale.

So what if the big 3 can only make money on gas guzzlers - let them. It is not the gov't role to put them out of business by not letting them make such vehicles. Let them go out of business cause people won't buy them.

This is simply a payback from Obama to the tree huggers - simple as that - without regards to the unintended consequences.

You think the auto industry had a tough time till now - just wait and see what happens when makers are forced to meet fuel/emission standard by MY2011.
Old 01-26-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by (Cj)
I see more VCM and IMA in our future. I just hope that Honda comes out with a 6/7 speed auto transmission soon.
IMA maybe but VCM yields a very marginal mileage benefit over its non-iVTEC counterpart.
Old 01-26-2009, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by biker
This not just about fuel efficiency but emissions. Cars are not the worst polluter in CA nor anywhere else.
Fuel economy and emissions go hand in hand: more/less fuel used -> more/less emissions. In the past, the CA issue was emissions but its now getting more to be about fuel economy.
Originally Posted by biker
And it's just not the fact that this may lead to more regulations, but varied regulations from state to state. Different fuel formulations already make gas more expensive than it should be - this will do the same but on grander scale.
Crapola nonsensico. Its always been Cali or non-Cali regulations. The other states now on board are adopting the Cali regs. People have got to man-up and just adopt the Cali regs.
Ever seen a UAW contract? Fuel/emission regs pale in comparision to the complexity to that document. What's the most expensive stuff that goes into a car? The greedy/greasy fingerprints of UAW workers.

Originally Posted by biker
So what if the big 3 can only make money on gas guzzlers - let them. It is not the gov't role to put them out of business by not letting them make such vehicles. Let them go out of business cause people won't buy them.
You overestimate the social conscience and general intelligence of the American public. SUV sales are rising again now that gas prices have dropped. The USA is the prime example of why democracy fails: people are stupid.
Old 01-26-2009, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
this is stupid. Come up with better ways than this.



Well you can kiss the big 3 good by now. Just what they need, more regulations and need to spend more money that they dont have.
If they need more money I bet Congress gives it to them.
Old 01-26-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishy
Fuel economy and emissions go hand in hand: more/less fuel used -> more/less emissions. In the past, the CA issue was emissions but its now getting more to be about fuel economy.

Crapola nonsensico. Its always been Cali or non-Cali regulations. The other states now on board are adopting the Cali regs. People have got to man-up and just adopt the Cali regs.
Ever seen a UAW contract? Fuel/emission regs pale in comparision to the complexity to that document. What's the most expensive stuff that goes into a car? The greedy/greasy fingerprints of UAW workers.


You overestimate the social conscience and general intelligence of the American public. SUV sales are rising again now that gas prices have dropped. The USA is the prime example of why democracy fails: people are stupid.
We dont need the pis poor cali regs. We need people with brains making rules, not the ones we have. This will do more harm than good to the economy, and car companies. This will further make it harder to refine fuel as every one will have their own formulation.
Old 01-26-2009, 05:46 PM
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well if this doesn't kill the "big 3" it will atleast cause them to "bleed" longer.
their huge money makers were the 1/2 tons, 3/4 tons and SUVs. as y'all know the Tahoe, Escalade, and Trailblazer all gonna stop soon. dare i say it:I even see GM ending the Vette. I know it has a loyal following plus it has impressive numbers but if it doesn't meet the CAFE numbers c'ya.i blame a lot of the goverment and the automotive industry.
#1. why has there been very little improvements for CAFE standards for 35 years?
#2. the car industry(mainly big 3): instead of building big SUVs and depending on cheap fuel and the okay or good economy. they should have had smaller cars and a "back up plan"
Old 01-26-2009, 05:50 PM
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Vette isn't going anywhere.
Old 01-26-2009, 09:18 PM
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the vette is a staple in american cars. that and the mustang will never go anywhere, unless the companies go under
Old 01-27-2009, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fishy
Fuel economy and emissions go hand in hand: more/less fuel used -> more/less emissions. In the past, the CA issue was emissions but its now getting more to be about fuel economy.

Crapola nonsensico. Its always been Cali or non-Cali regulations. The other states now on board are adopting the Cali regs. People have got to man-up and just adopt the Cali regs.

You overestimate the social conscience and general intelligence of the American public. SUV sales are rising again now that gas prices have dropped. The USA is the prime example of why democracy fails: people are stupid.
The fuel economy/emission issue is not true for diesels - much better mileage in a comparable diesel than a gasser but the diesel may have more particulate emissions. CA regs alone may have killed diesels in the US.

Why are there CA reg cars and non CA reg cars? Cause till now the CA market was so big that makers couldn't afford not make models to meet CA regs. That may change - the rules get bad enough some maker may just just say - we can't do business in CA.

Just because you have some uninformed consumers is no reason to be down on democracy. That's the beauty of it: even stupid people are allowed a choice.
Old 01-27-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
That may change - the rules get bad enough some maker may just just say - we can't do business in CA.
I could only hope and pray that would happen. It would be great for the automotive industry to just say, screw you! we arent selling nor are we making cars for your state!
Old 01-27-2009, 11:54 AM
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I don't think they could afford to do that with CA. I mean when I looked through my Acura directory book they must have had about 30 dealers alone there. I would love for that to happen but I don't think its possible.
Old 01-28-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
this is stupid. Come up with better ways than this.



Well you can kiss the big 3 good by now. Just what they need, more regulations and need to spend more money that they dont have.
survival of the fittest, i dont mind at all...
Old 01-28-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by invisiblewar
the vette is a staple in american cars. that and the mustang will never go anywhere, unless the companies go under
Agree, the vette and just a couple of big cars/trucks (not the complete lineup like they are now) will do fine as long as the car companies sell enough small and micro cars to offset the fuel mileage. Remember it's the fleet mileage that counts, not each individual model fuel mileage.
Old 05-13-2010, 06:35 PM
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Washington's Bungling Auto Engineers

Congress is designing everything from the braking system in your next car to the loan with which you'll finance it. Be very afraid.

Having spent more than $100 billion to rescue the American auto industry, Congress now seems intent to destroy what it saved. I'm not sure what to call this, but maybe the best term is vehicular homicide.

Exhibit A, already in place, is the new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard requiring new cars to average 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016, an increase of nearly 30%. If gas prices drop by then, or even if they remain at current levels, this will force car companies to make products Americans don't want to buy.

In most businesses that's a recipe for losing money. But if it happens to the car companies, well, Congress can always mount another bailout.

Exhibit B is the proposed Wall Street reform that would add another regulatory layer on top of the multiple agencies that already regulate dealer-originated financing of their customers' vehicles. The redundancy will add complexity and costs to making car loans. The irony is that auto lending was a victim of the financial crisis, not a cause.

At the height of the housing bubble, GMAC was requiring tighter standards for car loans than for the subprime and Alt-A home mortgages that it sold. The only people whom the proposed regulations won't burden are the well-off 6% or so of car buyers who pay cash.

Now comes Exhibit C, the proposed new car-safety law sponsored by Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D., W. Va.) and Rep. Henry Waxman (D., Calif.). The legislation is prompted by the fast-fading furor over unintended acceleration in Toyotas. It's about as necessary as a law protecting people from elephant stampedes in Central Park.

Toyota's most serious safety problem was floor mats that slipped loose from their moorings. They got tangled in the floor pedals and caused the accelerator to be depressed when drivers thought they were hitting the brakes. The mats are being replaced by Toyota.

Beyond that, Toyota has had all of 13 reports of "sticky" gas pedals, none of which actually stuck to the floor and none of which caused accidents. For that the company has recalled 2.3 million vehicles to install a mechanical "shim" that makes the gas pedal spring back faster.

Fueling the outcry over unintended acceleration were a couple of well-publicized incidents in California. One was a genuine and terrible tragedy, related to the floor mats, in which four people died. Another was an apparent hoax staged in a Toyota Prius that hit 95 miles per hour on the freeway.

But when you live to regulate, no excuse is too flimsy and no cost too high. Consider some of the provisions of the proposed new car-safety law.

Sophisticated electronic data recorders, or "black boxes," must be installed in all new cars within two years. Many cars on the road, including virtually all Toyotas, already have such devices, though they're not as elaborate and expensive as the ones the new law would require.

CEOs must certify that the information their companies provide federal safety regulators is complete and accurate, or face fines up to $250 million and potential imprisonment. Auto makers employ thousands of engineers to provide reams of detailed data to safety regulators. To expect a CEO to review it all personally or face potential financial ruin and jail time is ridiculous. Any rational CEO would choose a safer line of work, like peddling derivatives.

There's a lot more in the pending safety bills (the Senate and House versions differ slightly at this stage)—including new standards for designing automotive transmissions, a standard stopping distance after a car's brakes are applied, and an electronic brake override that would ensure the brakes can overpower the accelerator. Some of this might sound reasonable until you think about it for a minute.

Do you really want your car's transmission designed in Washington? How would a standard stopping distance have prevented the Toyota floor-mat incidents? (It wouldn't have.) And aren't car companies now rushing to put electronic brake override on new cars? (In fact, many cars already have it.)

Thinking about it, however, seems too much to ask of Washington, as does connecting the dots. Has anyone there thought about the cumulative effects—and the huge costs—of the new CAFE requirements, the proposed new regulations on auto lending and now the sweeping new car-safety bill? Piling on gets penalized in football, but not in the nation's capital.

It's hard to escape the conclusion that what's going on is a power grab or a headline grab, or perhaps both. And that there's a rush to enact the laws quickly before the scary headlines fade away or the Democrats' congressional majorities evaporate.

But perhaps there's a more generous explanation: that these sweeping and costly new laws are grounded in altruistic motives that are founded in a faulty assumption. The assumption is that government is inherently fairer, more decent and more compassionate to its citizens than private enterprise is to its customers. Why? Because private enterprise is tainted by the profit motive.

Radio commentator Michael Medved puts that theory into perspective with a simple question. Where were you treated better: at your latest trip to your state's motor-vehicle department or at your latest visit to Starbucks?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular
Old 05-13-2010, 08:06 PM
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Congress is designing everything from the braking system in your next car to the loan with which you'll finance it. Be very afraid.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular
Great article that I 100% agree with. The last clowns on earth I want designing the "future" car are Washington bureaucrats....
Old 05-13-2010, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
Great article that I 100% agree with. The last clowns on earth I want designing the "future" car are Washington bureaucrats....
Especially those that are so out of touch with reality.
Old 05-14-2010, 01:42 PM
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Hopefully Libtards are voted out in November.
Old 05-23-2010, 06:59 PM
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Obama to Mandate Rules to Raise Fuel Standards

WASHINGTON — President Obama has decided to use his executive power to order tougher fuel efficiency standards for cars and trucks, accelerating the fight against climate change without waiting for Congress, administration officials said Thursday.

Mr. Obama plans to announce on Friday that he is ordering the creation of a new national policy that will result in less greenhouse-gas pollution from medium- and heavy-duty trucks for the first time and will further reduce exhaust from cars and light-duty trucks beyond the requirements he has already put in place.

Under rules that were eventually formalized last month, new cars have to meet a combined city and highway fuel economy average of 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016. The administration said the new rules would cut emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases by about 30 percent from 2012 to 2016.

The plan Mr. Obama will announce on Friday will order further improvements in fuel efficiency for cars and light trucks made in 2017 and beyond, and in medium and heavy trucks made in 2014 through 2018.

The initiative comes as the spill in the Gulf of Mexico has underscored the problem with dependence on oil, and officials said the president would cite the problem when he discusses his plan. The order allows Mr. Obama to advance his goals even as Senate Democrats have difficulty trying to pass a comprehensive energy bill that he supports.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/bu...nt/21fuel.html


Someone forgot to tell King Barack the Mild that a gasoline tax would be much simpler and more effective.
Old 05-23-2010, 11:23 PM
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Why doesn't he just "mandate" the car manufacturers produce only cars that run on elephant farts? Or fairy juice? This is just so fucking stupid...
Old 05-24-2010, 06:29 AM
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The administration said the new rules would cut emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases by about 30 percent from 2012 to 2016.
People reading this stuff won't know that stuff like this is impossible because the rules don't take effect till '16 and cars are only a fraction of the CO2 emissions. Even if you took all cars off the road you won't get a reduction like that.
Old 05-24-2010, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/bu...nt/21fuel.html


Someone forgot to tell King Barack the Mild that a gasoline tax would be much simpler and more effective.
Does this dipshit even know how to wipe his own ass? He is "executive power" to do stuff he has no clue about
Old 05-24-2010, 05:01 PM
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Cutting ourselves off at the knees. oof!
Old 05-24-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Cutting ourselves off at the knees. oof!
We the consumer will in the end pay more for the increase fuel economy on the new cars. Take a car company like Infiniti for instance, they have nothing currently in their line-up that gets even close to 35mpg. Now, they do have 6 years to change that, but what ever hybrid or other fuel saving technology they decide to put into their line-up to get to the CAFE standards, their list and sale prices will be going up like shit and us consumers will be paying the extra amount the vehicles go up in price by then! Are we going to really save that much money in gas with improved fuel economy to even pay off the difference in price the vehicles went up to have the hybrid and/or fuel improving technologies?
Old 05-24-2010, 09:32 PM
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Down the road when the government realizes that these new fuel standards are impossible to achieve, they will come back to their normal senses and relax up the numbers.

Still remember that "Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate California Air Resource Board Targets" set in the 90's. The numbers were forced to be adjusted again and again after the reality hit home, and the mandate was eventually dropped in 2003. Nothing much was ever achieved then.
Old 05-24-2010, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Someone forgot to tell King Barack the Mild that a gasoline tax would be much simpler and more effective.
Except that if the gov't relies on a certain income from this, that income will drop when less fuel is used. Taxes always have some unintended consequences and don't always achieve what they were put in place for.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:34 AM
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...bcause it's even more insane in Kalifornia

Honda purchases plug-in car credits from Tesla Since Tesla’s founding in 2003, the electric car-maker has yet to turn an annualized profit, despite earning $13.8 million from vehicles sales since it began offering its first product in 2008.

In order to help offset its losses, the small automaker has decided to sell some of its excess zero-emission vehicle credits to other automakers, says Bloomberg. Although Honda is not the only automaker to take advantage of Tesla’s excess credits, it is the only automaker that has been named for doing so.

Despite Honda being rated as the most fuel-efficient full-line automaker in America, it does not currently offer any plug-in hybrid vehicles, and as a result, needed credits or faced fines in California. Interestingly, Honda is the only automaker that currently offers leasing for pollution-free hydrogen-powered vehicles in the U.S., but hydrogen-powered vehicles do not meet the requirements outlined in California’s law.

The law, which is approved by the federal government, but only applies in California, required Honda, Toyota, General Motors, Ford and Nissan sell a combined 60,000 plug-in hybrid and pure electric vehicles in California between 2008 and 2011. For the automakers which fail to contribute their share of the sales, there are potential fines and sales restrictions to be faced.

Honda says it purchased credits equivalent to 368 zero-emission cars, and also has a contract for another 287 vehicle credits.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-pu...rom-tesla.html

@ any car company being forced into a posiion "buy credits". This law is nuts.
Old 04-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1116311_citing-fuel-economy-benefits-automakers-push-for-95-octane-gas

Citing fuel-economy benefits, automakers push for 95 octane gas

April 17, 2018Touting lower greenhouse gas emissions and higher fuel economy, Detroit's automakers want the U.S. to boost its octane.GM, Ford, and FCA are working with the U.S. Council for Automotive Research on a plan to switch from the three octane choices at most pumps to just one: 95 octane. Such a move would put the U.S. in line with Europe.

Automotive News reported that Dan Nicholson, GM’s vice president of global propulsion systems, said in testimony before the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s environment subcommittee last week that even though premium unleaded currently costs around 50 cents more per gallon than regular at most pumps, moving to 95 octane would cost consumers far less.

MORE: Automakers tout green cars while fighting EPA

Nicholson also said during a panel discussion at SAE International WCX World Congress Experience in Detroit that 95 octane would allow for a 3 percent fuel economy improvement for less than a 3 percent increase in the cost of fuel.

David Filipe, Vice President of Ford’s powertrain engineering, speaking on the same panel as Nicholson, said that Ford believes that the price of 95 octane needs to be affordable to not have a big financial impact on consumers. Filipe said that the cost of of 95 octane should not add more than 5 cents per gallon.

Improving fuel economy has been an expensive and difficult process for automakers.




DON'T MISS: What if the EPA dialed back emissions rules, but only on trucks?

While a three percent boost might seem small, other ways that automakers have boosted fuel economy have involved the development of expensive new technologies including downsized, direct-injected engines, stop-start systems, lighter vehicle bodies and eight, nine and 10 speed transmissions. Putting a new standard of fuel into place would cost far less than what has been spent on these technologies.

Refineries not having to produce various octane levels would help put some of the cost savings of making the 95 octane standard come into play. They would be able to focus on making large amounts of one fuel by using 1 of several ways to boost octane. Options to boost octane include raising the amount of ethanol used in fuel production or lowering the amount of heptane mixed into fuel.

Raising octane helps vehicle engines run more efficiently by allowing engineers to raise an engine’s compression ratio which in turn raises horsepower and torque.


Old 04-18-2018, 09:01 AM
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While at it, get rid of E85 as well.
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