Chevrolet: Volt news **Production Cut (page 8)**
08-02-2010, 03:31 PM
#201
2011 BMW 335i
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The front looks like one from a 3G TL....redesigned for like 2011 or something. I have to admit I am totalling feeling this car's styling, although the rear looks ok IMO. I don't know if I could ever sell my 3G though.
<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img704.imageshack.us/i/volty.jpg/'><img src='http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8471/volty.jpg' border='0'/></a>
<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img704.imageshack.us/i/volty.jpg/'><img src='http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8471/volty.jpg' border='0'/></a>
Last edited by carlos9827; 08-02-2010 at 03:34 PM.
08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
#202
Race Director
08-03-2010, 12:20 AM
#203
While I agree that it is overpriced at $41K, what I don't understand is who is willing to buy this so badly that Chevy is increasing production by 50%.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/volt-ord...-increase.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/volt-ord...-increase.html
08-03-2010, 09:22 AM
#205
I'm the Firestarter
^ The market has spoken.
08-03-2010, 09:50 AM
#206
My first Avatar....
^
Maybe in ONE area. But, the WHOLE market hasn't spoken....yet.
Maybe in ONE area. But, the WHOLE market hasn't spoken....yet.
08-03-2010, 10:32 AM
#207
AZ Community Team
It does look good, I hope it's successful for GM's sake. They have spent a lot of time and resources on the Volt. Check back in a year from now to see what happens.
08-03-2010, 12:26 PM
#209
Go Big Blue!
yes. And has anyone actually seen one in person. Touched or felt it? Driven it? Even seen a spec sheet of what it includes? I admit we can probably guess about how it will drive, what amenities you will get for that price, and what it will look and feel like inside. But it might be a little early to start calling it a sales failure. Also, to me it's somewhat of an experiment for early adopters of EV's. I'm sure they don't expect to sell thousands per month.
08-03-2010, 12:51 PM
#210
Senior Moderator
Personally, I can't wait to try a Volt. It will be teh shiz when it is released. At that price, though, honestly it would have made more sense as the Converj. Let Cadi owners pay for new tech and then let it filter to the masses.
That's how Honda does it. RL gets the new tech first....then the rest of the Acura line...then Honda, maybe.
I hope this is successful, for all our sakes, since all Americans and Canadians own GM currently. I look forward to GM's IPO.....
That's how Honda does it. RL gets the new tech first....then the rest of the Acura line...then Honda, maybe.
I hope this is successful, for all our sakes, since all Americans and Canadians own GM currently. I look forward to GM's IPO.....
08-03-2010, 12:54 PM
#211
Go Big Blue!
^^ I agree Bob. I was thinking that same thing when i first saw the price (even if it can be justified). It's new leading edge stuff. Make it a Cadillac to prove the concept. People in that buying range are more likely to pay for new things.
08-04-2010, 06:09 AM
#213
Go Big Blue!
08-04-2010, 06:19 AM
#214
AZ Community Team
08-04-2010, 02:31 PM
#216
Race Director
08-04-2010, 03:28 PM
#217
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Nobama:
Reminded me of this:
The smiling president got in, buckled his seat belt and proceeded to drive — drum roll, please — 10 feet, and probably not above 2 mph, as news cameras clicked away.
"I hope it has an air bag," Gibbs said.
Obama, who almost never gets to drive, pronounced the ride "pretty smooth."
Maybe he tried to drive 30 feet but the extension cord came out of the wall plug?"I hope it has an air bag," Gibbs said.
Obama, who almost never gets to drive, pronounced the ride "pretty smooth."
Reminded me of this:
10-12-2010, 08:05 AM
#221
Race Director
http://www.gearlog.com/2010/10/uh-oh...t_electric.php
With Chevrolet Volts in the hands of the media this week for preview drives, it looks like range in electric-only mode is on the order of 30 to 35 miles before the gasoline "range extender" engine kicks in. Previously, GM talked about ranges of 40 miles, forty-ish miles, and most recently a range of 25-50 miles. It also turns out that gasoline fuel economy isn't so special, either.
Popular Mechanics charged the Volt three different times and put the Volt in the hands of three drivers. The first time, the EV range meter read 48 miles, it dropped to 43 miles after a quarter-mile, the tester then switched off the air conditioning (not a problem with the temperature in the mid-fifties), and the car made it 31 miles of country driving before the gasoline engine fired up. A second try, on city streets where battery regeneration works better, raised the distance to 35 miles. The third try, highway-only with cruise control set to 78 mph, netted 33 miles. So, three tests, 33 miles average range.
PM calculated gasoline-engine economy as 32 mpg city, 36 mpg highway, and also calculated it factoring in the miles driven on electric power, reporting city and highway numbers of 38 mpg for each. GM calculates overall fuel economy at 230 mpg. The difference is that GM uses higher-order math that factors in how much driving would be electric-only for the typical family (almost all of it) and how much would be range-extending (not much), perhaps meaning that for every 230 miles of typical driving, something like 180-190 miles would be on electric and the remainder gasoline-powered.
GM says the 9.3 gallon gasoline tank adds 310 miles of driving range, which means GM pegs no-gimmicks mileage (the way most people would calculate it) at 37 to 42 mpg depending on whether GM excludes the last one or two gallons of fuel.
GM Admits: Gas Engine Will Drive the Car More or Less Directly, At Times
GM Monday also owned up to something it denied or skirted around before: Under some circumstances, like when the battery is dead, the Volt provides some of its power mechanically, more or less directly from the engine to the (driven) front wheels. Before, the impression was that in depleted-battery mode, all the engine's power went in a path of engine-to-generator-to-electric-motor-to-wheels, which is seen as a elegant solution if you're trying to impress green car fanatics.
Now GM is saying some of the engine's power still goes to the generator and some of the power goes to the wheels mechanically. GM argues that it's indirect mechanical power transmission because it goes through something called a planetary gearset, but that's still mechanical transfer of torque with from engine to drive wheels, just as being a little bit pregnant somewhat understates the situation.
Another instance would be at high speeds say (70 mph) and under heavy load, some of the propulsion force would be provided mechanically. This might be a more effective and elegant solution, but it's also not what GM had been saying the last two years.
Does this matter? It does for some purists. GM has called the Volt an all-electric or extended-range electric vehicle rather than a plug-in hybrid, which is seen as a less lofty term. "Plug-in hybrid" suggests the car will run some on battery, some on the combustion engine, and the combustion engine at times directly provides propulsion. GM has been suggesting the electric motor will provide most of the typical user's driving miles and tha the final drive was always through an electric motor. Jalopnik headlined its story "How GM 'Lied' About the Electric Car" and illustrated the story with devil's horns and a tail added (photo above).
So tech-savvy auto writers are miffed that GM told some of them there was no way to drive the front wheels directly; rather it would be through a generator and electric motor. GM now says this, ah, misstatement of reality was to throw off the competition and to protect patents that had been filed but not made public.
The Volt will reach first customers in December at a price of $41,000, less a $7,000 tax credit available to buyers. This for a midsize sedan with a compact back seat, not much trunk room, and the potential to change the face of transportation -- over the long haul.
With Chevrolet Volts in the hands of the media this week for preview drives, it looks like range in electric-only mode is on the order of 30 to 35 miles before the gasoline "range extender" engine kicks in. Previously, GM talked about ranges of 40 miles, forty-ish miles, and most recently a range of 25-50 miles. It also turns out that gasoline fuel economy isn't so special, either.
Popular Mechanics charged the Volt three different times and put the Volt in the hands of three drivers. The first time, the EV range meter read 48 miles, it dropped to 43 miles after a quarter-mile, the tester then switched off the air conditioning (not a problem with the temperature in the mid-fifties), and the car made it 31 miles of country driving before the gasoline engine fired up. A second try, on city streets where battery regeneration works better, raised the distance to 35 miles. The third try, highway-only with cruise control set to 78 mph, netted 33 miles. So, three tests, 33 miles average range.
PM calculated gasoline-engine economy as 32 mpg city, 36 mpg highway, and also calculated it factoring in the miles driven on electric power, reporting city and highway numbers of 38 mpg for each. GM calculates overall fuel economy at 230 mpg. The difference is that GM uses higher-order math that factors in how much driving would be electric-only for the typical family (almost all of it) and how much would be range-extending (not much), perhaps meaning that for every 230 miles of typical driving, something like 180-190 miles would be on electric and the remainder gasoline-powered.
GM says the 9.3 gallon gasoline tank adds 310 miles of driving range, which means GM pegs no-gimmicks mileage (the way most people would calculate it) at 37 to 42 mpg depending on whether GM excludes the last one or two gallons of fuel.
GM Admits: Gas Engine Will Drive the Car More or Less Directly, At Times
GM Monday also owned up to something it denied or skirted around before: Under some circumstances, like when the battery is dead, the Volt provides some of its power mechanically, more or less directly from the engine to the (driven) front wheels. Before, the impression was that in depleted-battery mode, all the engine's power went in a path of engine-to-generator-to-electric-motor-to-wheels, which is seen as a elegant solution if you're trying to impress green car fanatics.
Now GM is saying some of the engine's power still goes to the generator and some of the power goes to the wheels mechanically. GM argues that it's indirect mechanical power transmission because it goes through something called a planetary gearset, but that's still mechanical transfer of torque with from engine to drive wheels, just as being a little bit pregnant somewhat understates the situation.
Another instance would be at high speeds say (70 mph) and under heavy load, some of the propulsion force would be provided mechanically. This might be a more effective and elegant solution, but it's also not what GM had been saying the last two years.
Does this matter? It does for some purists. GM has called the Volt an all-electric or extended-range electric vehicle rather than a plug-in hybrid, which is seen as a less lofty term. "Plug-in hybrid" suggests the car will run some on battery, some on the combustion engine, and the combustion engine at times directly provides propulsion. GM has been suggesting the electric motor will provide most of the typical user's driving miles and tha the final drive was always through an electric motor. Jalopnik headlined its story "How GM 'Lied' About the Electric Car" and illustrated the story with devil's horns and a tail added (photo above).
So tech-savvy auto writers are miffed that GM told some of them there was no way to drive the front wheels directly; rather it would be through a generator and electric motor. GM now says this, ah, misstatement of reality was to throw off the competition and to protect patents that had been filed but not made public.
The Volt will reach first customers in December at a price of $41,000, less a $7,000 tax credit available to buyers. This for a midsize sedan with a compact back seat, not much trunk room, and the potential to change the face of transportation -- over the long haul.
10-12-2010, 08:10 AM
#223
Back From The dead
I guess I'll have to make that #39 
10-12-2010, 10:16 AM
#225
Senior Moderator
I saw the car testing in person in march and it looked good then, hopefully its not as bad as it sounds on paper.
10-12-2010, 10:27 AM
#226
The sizzle in the Steak
Wow that's horrible.
10-12-2010, 11:53 AM
#227
I'm the Firestarter
I vaguely remember reading that in Ontario the Volt would get extra tax discounts because it's supposed to be a "full" electric as opposed to the Prius, which is "just" a plug-in hybrid. Now that it looks like there's no fundamental difference between the cars other than battery size, I wonder if there will be some change to that...
10-24-2010, 02:47 PM
#228
http://jerrygarrett.wordpress.com/20...credit-ripoff/
10-25-2010, 06:39 AM
#229
AZ Community Team
http://www.motortrend.com/features/e.../photo_01.html
Motor Trend did a good job of explaining the planetary gearset configuration and how it works for a Volt vs. a Prius. Little disappointing that GM lied about the direct connection but it is only for above 70MPH so all the fuss is a little overblown.
MotorTrend also tested it and got 126MPG, but didn't explain the specifics.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
Motor Trend did a good job of explaining the planetary gearset configuration and how it works for a Volt vs. a Prius. Little disappointing that GM lied about the direct connection but it is only for above 70MPH so all the fuss is a little overblown.
MotorTrend also tested it and got 126MPG, but didn't explain the specifics.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
10-25-2010, 06:56 AM
#230
Race Director
MotorTrend also tested it and got 126MPG, but didn't explain the specifics.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
Because you don't have to plug it in (unlike a Leaf), I have a feeling a lot of folks will only recharge it when they feel like it or remember to - so the net effect will be that many folks will be driving a $40K compact gas fueled vehicle most of the time (but feeling good about themsselves for saving the planet
).
10-25-2010, 07:01 AM
#231
AZ Community Team
That is totally subjective and dependant on how you drive it - as soon as you drive on the gas engine/generator combo, the milage drops to regular compact sedan kind of numbers - about 35-40MPG. If you never have to start the gas engine the "mileage" totally depends on how much your local electric utility charges you per KW. GM and others, make some kind of assumptions that you drive partly on electric alone and partly on the gas engine - that's when you get "mileage" claims of anywhere between 40 and 200+MPG.
Because you don't have to plug it in (unlike a Leaf), I have a feeling a lot of folks will only recharge it when they feel like it or remember to - so the net effect will be that many folks will be driving a $40K compact gas fueled vehicle most of the time (but feeling good about themsselves for saving the planet).
Because you don't have to plug it in (unlike a Leaf), I have a feeling a lot of folks will only recharge it when they feel like it or remember to - so the net effect will be that many folks will be driving a $40K compact gas fueled vehicle most of the time (but feeling good about themsselves for saving the planet
).Last edited by Legend2TL; 10-25-2010 at 07:07 AM.
10-25-2010, 02:22 PM
#232
^^I thought the BIG tax credit only applied for full electric or plug in electrics? Are the taxpayers once again subsidizing GM with this recent 'misstatement' regarding the Volt?
11-12-2010, 05:47 AM
#234
AZ Community Team
11-12-2010, 06:21 AM
#235
Race Director
We paid an average of $0.31 per kilowatt-hour of electricity and $3.31 per gallon of 91 octane swill, so the arithmetic tells us that the running cost of this Volt tester while in our care was equivalent to a gas-only car that achieves 30.9 mpg on 91 octane. It also turns out the Volt's miles driven on electricity cost us more money than if it'd simply consumed gasoline instead.
11-12-2010, 06:31 AM
#236
AZ Community Team
If the potential consumer looks at that math, there's no way this car would sell in any meaningful way. Never mind that the car costs $41K, depending on your electric rates it may cost more to run on electric (and most of that electricity is coming from coal plants) than gas !!!!!
It really depends on the costs of electricity, out in MD the cost is ~$0.11/kilowatt hour so that's ~ 1/3 of what Edmunds paid for their electricity. For 100 miles of electric operation in MD it'd cost $4.29 which is actually pretty good compared to gas costs, it's the gas fuel economy of the Volt's that's not impressive.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 11-12-2010 at 06:46 AM.
11-16-2010, 02:21 PM
#237
Safety Car
Double Winner
The much-hyped, oft-debated Chevy Volt extended-range plug-in hybrid was named Car of the Year by 2 publications within just a couple of hours, lending credence to GM's relentless public-relations push to position the vehicle as a game changer and a car unlike any other on the road.
1st, Motor Trend bestowed the honors live via streaming video from inside General Motors' wind-tunnel facility, calling the Volt "a real breakthrough" and the "world's 1st intelligent hybrid," according to Editor-in-Chief Angus McKenzie. Citing the fact that the Volt's powertrain allows the car to run as a pure EV, series hybrid or parallel hybrid -- depending on which delivers the most efficiency at any given time -- McKenzie said, "The investment in the technology that drives this car is also an investment in the long-term future of automaking in America.”
Automobile Magazine Associate Editor Eric Tingwall said, "On its way to becoming Automobile Magazine's 2011 Automobile of the Year, the Chevrolet Volt endured more scrutiny and skepticism than any of the other nine semifinalists." The Volt, Tingwall said, is "genuinely an all-new car, in the most simplistic sense as well as in the greater notion that the Volt is unlike any vehicle we have ever driven."
In the Motor Trend contest, the Volt beat out such notable rides as the Audi A8, Honda CR-Z and stable mate Chevy Cruze, to name just a few. In Automobile Magazine's competition, the Volt came out on top against, among others, the Buick Regal and Ford Fiesta; the publication also named the Jaguar XJ as the design of the year, along with announcing other awards.
11-16-2010, 03:25 PM
#238
The sizzle in the Steak
This is about as wacky as the CRZ winning the Japan COTY.
11-19-2010, 09:44 PM
#240
I sat in it and checked it out at the L.A. Auto Show. I wasn't impressed at all.
Plus the math doesn't work out. The first 40 miles are electric at whatever your electricity billing rate is. Then it's 300 miles on 9 gallons = 33~ mpg. I can get 30 mpg on the highway in my 8-year-old 3.2L V6.
Plus the math doesn't work out. The first 40 miles are electric at whatever your electricity billing rate is. Then it's 300 miles on 9 gallons = 33~ mpg. I can get 30 mpg on the highway in my 8-year-old 3.2L V6.