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Old 07-09-2004, 10:01 AM
  #361  
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Better look at the different wheels.
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Old 07-09-2004, 10:02 AM
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Maybe it's just a sports package on the base car...

I wonder, is the exhaust identical to the C6? From what I recall it does not look like this on the base car.
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Old 07-09-2004, 10:03 AM
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Oh yeah, the wheels are at least an inch larger.
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Maybe it's just a sports package on the base car...

I wonder, is the exhaust identical to the C6? From what I recall it does not look like this on the base car.
Actually, that does look like the base exhaust on the convertible model to me. I have pics of the new Vette on my desktop... This is one of them, actually:

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Old 07-10-2004, 09:11 AM
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The only problem with that Sypher is that there are 4 on the 'vert and 2 on the mystery car

Probably nothing more than a performance package or something.
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:18 AM
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There are 4 on the mystery car, look closer.
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Old 07-10-2004, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
The only problem with that Sypher is that there are 4 on the 'vert and 2 on the mystery car
There's actually four tips on the mystery car too if you look closely.
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Old 07-10-2004, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod
There's actually four tips on the mystery car too if you look closely.
Well damn, I was wrong. My apologies.
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Well damn, I was wrong. My apologies.
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Old 07-28-2004, 10:19 AM
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Leaner and Meaner: The sixth-generation Corvette really delivers - - By WES RAYNAL - - Source: Autoweek


2005 CHEVROLET CORVETTE
ON SALE: Fall
BASE PRICE: $44,245
POWERTRAIN: 6.0-liter, 400-hp, 400 lb-ft V8; rwd, six-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3179 pounds
0 TO 60 MPH: 4.2 seconds (mfr.)

Virginia International Raceway is a hidden gem. Located in Alton, Virginia, it opened for business in 1957. Over the years the legends ran there-Penske, Donohue, Foyt and Shelby. The track fell into disrepair in the early '70s and was turned over to farmland. In 1998 real estate developer and vintage racer Harvey Siegel revived the track and it re-opened for business in 2000. Today it is a beautiful and challenging 17-corner, 3.27-mile road course that keeps busy 52 weeks a year hosting vintage events, SCCA races, Grand-Am and motorcycle races. VIR is also a place—in addition to Germany's Nürburgring and autobahn—where GM engineers toiled day after day developing Chevrolet's latest sports car, the 2005 C6 Corvette, and where GM chose to let us drive it for the first time.

Chief engineer Dave Hill, who calls replacing the C5 a "daunting task," likes to remind us that by weight, 85 percent of the car is brand-new. He says the goal in developing the C6 was to take the C5's customer complaints (he calls them "dissatisfiers"), some 100 in all, and address them one by one. Refinement was the key: He and his crew expect the C6 to be world-class competitive against the Porsche 911s and Dodge Vipers of the world. After finally driving it, we think the car has more than a shot at it.

Hill's refinement mantra really came into play both on the Southern Virginia rural two lanes around VIR and at the track. The C6 proved easy to drive hard and fast. The 6.0-liter LS2 V8 develops a stout 400 hp and 400 lb-ft. That's enough to propel the car to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds, on up to its 186-mph top speed, a speed that makes it the fastest production Corvette in history. The engine felt like a big block, which was the intention. Acceleration was right-now, and the engine pulled and howled beautifully up to the 6500-rpm redline. And there was just gobs of torque-you could probably get away with a two-speed manual instead of the six-speed: One gear to get off the line, another to take you to 186 mph.


That six-speed is a Tremec transaxle, again mounted in the rear. The gear lever has been shortened an inch and the throw travel has been reduced. There's also a four-speed automatic available as an option. GM anticipates a 50-50 sales mix, manual to automatic. The shorter-throw shifter is a welcome improvement and worked much better than the C5's. The shifts came easier and more quickly, compared to the more bulky feel of the C5, which sometimes could remind you of a '67 Chevelle bracket racer. Clutch takeup in the C6 was also quite a bit smoother, and with a lot less pedal effort.
Besides more speed and a smoother gearbox, more improvements in the way the car drives can be credited to Corvette suspension engineer Mike Neal. He revised the C5's four-corner independent suspension with a new suspension cradle and control arms. Thirteen millimeters of suspension travel has been added to the front, 20 mm to the rear. There are three suspension choices: The base, called FE1; magnetic ride control; and the Z51 package, which now includes not only stiffer springs and dampers, but a quicker steering box, more aggressive rubber and bigger brakes, plus its own set of gear ratios for faster acceleration off the line.

In addition to being one of the lead suspension engineers, Neal is an ex-road racer and did a big chunk of the C6 development driving. So that's why when we arrived at VIR having never even seen it, let alone driven on it, we turned to Neal to take us around on some familiarity laps.

"We [the Corvette group] do a lot of track testing," Neal said. "Tracks are good for setting shock valving, antiroll bar work and brake work. We tested here, and at Grattan [a road course in Western Michigan] and the Nürburgring.


"If you want to play with the best, you have to track test. And if you want to sell cars to enthusiasts in Europe [C6 goes on sale in Europe in October]," he continued, "you have to run the 'Ring. The other automakers such as Porsche and Mercedes, as well the European general public, sit up and take notice when they see you running there. We go a couple times a year. They take us seriously now."

As well they should-this is as serious a track car as it is a road car, and the suspension choices offer something for everyone.

First we tried the base-suspension version since Hill said it's the one most customers order. Driving on the road hinted that the C6 is a far more agile, more tossable car than the C5, and the track really drove the point home. If you're planning on racing and/or autocrossing your C6, the base suspension probably shouldn't be your first choice. It was the most pleasant on the road, but on the track you'll want to go with either the magnetic ride control or Z51 package.

The magnetic ride control has tour and sport modes, and on both road and track the car body stayed remarkably level, while the magneto-rheological dampers soaked up the road's bumps and lumps and the track's curbs as we tried to clip the apexes tighter and tighter. In tour mode the magnetic ride control-equipped car felt like the base car with better body control. Flicking over to sport mode tightened things up considerably.

The Z51 package, though, was the ticket for the track. Hill said the C6 with the Z51 package will get you "three-fourths of the way to Z06 performance levels." Indeed, of the three suspension choices it offered the quickest turn-in, most grip and best brakes. The ride was harsher, but in no way was it unbearable. The C6's run-flat tires are new, developed to cut road noise and improve the car's ride. Neal also took part in the taping of our television show, AutoWeek on Speed at GM's Milford, Michigan, road course and on rural Michigan roads. Frost heaves and other road imperfections are more frequent than in Virginia, yet the Z51-equipped car was perfectly acceptable here as well.
On both the road and at VIR the C6's ride was noticeably softer, more relaxing than a C5 Z06, thanks to the longer wheelbase, stiffer structure, longer suspension travel and new tires. The LS2 has been moved forward a couple of inches in the chassis but is 15 pounds lighter than the LS1, so the 51-49 weight distribution stays about the same as the C5. GM engineers said wind and road noise have been cut dramatically-overall the car feels a lot faster, but also more comfortable, less fatiguing.

Road noise was still an issue in the C6s we drove, or maybe we should say the rest of the vehicle's noise has been cut to the point where tire noise was still dominant. The C6 still has no real sound-deadening wall between the cargo bay and the cabin, so there was quite a bit of pass-through noise from the rear. When you want to hear the exhaust, that's pretty cool. When you want to hear a soft-spoken Corvette engineer riding shotgun, not so good.


Any disappointments? Well, yeah; steering feel. It's not world-class quite yet, which is disappointing only because the rest of the car is up to that standard. The steering felt okay-precise, nicely weighted. But there is a lack of feedback. Especially on the track, we didn't really sense anything worthwhile through the fingertips in terms of road texture or how the tires are gripping. The more laps we did, the more the driving became like a video game: Understeer until we got the visual cue of running wide, rather than letting the steering wheel or the seat of your pants do the talking. The steering on the C6 is like the shifter on the C5, though to a lesser degree, in that it's the one thing you can point to and say "Detroit iron" rather than "best in class." GM could fix it by simply dumping Magnasteer and going to work on it the way engineers did the shifter.
That's about it though.

The C6, first shown to the masses at the North American International Auto show in Detroit (AW, Jan. 5), has a composite body that was honed in 400-plus hours in the wind tunnel. Designers drew their inspiration from the '63 Sting Ray as well as lessons learned on the Le Mans-winning C5R racer. The most obvious changes are the exposed headlights, the sharper fender edges and the grille opening beneath the headlights that makes the car look like it is grinning at you. The overall length is five inches shorter and an inch narrower than the C5, making the new car the same size as a Porsche 911, and the C6 looks a lot tidier as a result-like a 911 is tidy. The drag coefficient was cut from the C5's 0.29 to 0.28. The C6 looks evolutionary compared to the C5 Corvette, but in reality the C6's leaner, tighter profile is a pretty big advance.

The C5's balsa-wood sandwich floorboard and hydroformed frame rails are back underneath the C6 because Hill's crew couldn't find a better way to keep the chassis ultra stiff and the road noise minimal. To stiffen the chassis even further, the windshield frame has been reinforced and a crossbar added under the dash.

The interior is new and looks better-the C5's contained plenty of Hill's dissatisfiers. The new car is brighter inside and the materials and plastics are richer and softer compared to both the C5 and the early C6 prototypes we looked at last fall. The switches and components are better organized inside as well. Even with the shorter overall length the interior stays the same size as the C5, and feels airier thanks to the slightly more upright windshield.

The C5, the car that put Corvettes back in the game, came out in late 1996 as a '97 model, and some say eight years is too long between Corvettes, some say it's exactly long enough. Whatever your thoughts on the timing, know that the C6 is a big advance. It addresses the C5's major issues (too big, clunky shifter), and updated it as needed to keep pace with what has happened industry-wide in those eight years: When Chevy was developing the C5, there was the Mazda RX-7 and Nissan ZX Turbo to worry about, the Acura NSX to wonder about, the Porsche Boxster chasing. Today, the Boxster is the only alternative on price point, and the big-block-like 400 lb-ft, 400-hp performance of the new car means the little Porsche is not really a direct threat anymore. Viper? Maybe. But GM will go after it with the Z06, which will be launched at January's Detroit show (along with the C6R race car). Besides, the Dodge is already more money for less refinement-not to mention it would take a hell of a driver to use all the Viper's power edge to stay ahead of a moderately talented wheelman in a Corvette over a real-world twisty road.
C6 prices were announced a few weeks ago, starting at $44,245, $52,245 for the convertible. We say the C6 is worth the wait. Now bring on the Z06.

Kevin A. Wilson contributed to this report


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Old 07-28-2004, 10:41 AM
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So the steering is the only thing wrong with the car. Not bad, but I am still disappointed. It should have been perfect in all respects. I wanted to read something like: "This car will teach, even, the new 911 a lesson. Watch out Germany." Damn you Hill/Lutz. Fix this car yesterday!!!
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:15 AM
  #372  
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the c6 is nice and all but how the hell did they ever think that truck steering wheel would be approriate???!!! WTF....that new stering wheel is absolutely horrendous.....wtf were they thinking....i think it came str8 out of he trialblazer...yuck
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:17 AM
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I love the C6.. It's still at the top of the list to replace my Z at the end of my lease. And reading this makes me want it even more. I've driven a C5 and the steering wasn't bad at all, so I think they may just be a little over critical on this point. I'll see how I like it when I get to test drive it.
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
I love the C6.. It's still at the top of the list to replace my Z at the end of my lease. And reading this makes me want it even more. I've driven a C5 and the steering wasn't bad at all, so I think they may just be a little over critical on this point. I'll see how I like it when I get to test drive it.
The one things they are not clear about is if the steering feel withe the Z51 package is a lot better. Cos they do mention that the suspension package improves on the steering as well.

Let's hope the Z06 fixes that.

Finally, just by reading this, I'd go for the magna suspension. I love the fact that you can change the setting.
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
The one things they are not clear about is if the steering feel withe the Z51 package is a lot better. Cos they do mention that the suspension package improves on the steering as well.

Let's hope the Z06 fixes that.

Finally, just by reading this, I'd go for the magna suspension. I love the fact that you can change the setting.
The Magnetic suspension sounds nice, but I think I'm going to have to go with the Z51. I'm used to a stiff suspension by driving my Z, and I can't pass up the improved steering, brakes and shorter gears. The base suspension sounds boring personally. Too soft from what I read.
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
The Magnetic suspension sounds nice, but I think I'm going to have to go with the Z51. I'm used to a stiff suspension by driving my Z, and I can't pass up the improved steering, brakes and shorter gears. The base suspension sounds boring personally. Too soft from what I read.
Not to mention the oil, power steering, and transmission coolers added with the Z51 package. And the better tires.

And since I'm thinking about an auto for daily Miami traffic, the Z51 package also includes the performance axle, but the different suspension settings do sound very nice.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:25 PM
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GM Powertrain opens Performance Build Center and handbuilt LS7 announced for C6 Z06

General Motors Corp. is adding more muscle to its claim of "World's Best Powertrains" with the official opening of its Performance Build Center, a $10 million facility dedicated to building high-performance engines for low-volume, premium vehicles.

The first hand-built engine variant to come from the Performance Build Center will be the LS7 OHV V-8 that is the heart of the Z06 performance package earmarked for the 2006 Corvette; specifications and details for the LS7 will be provided at the 2005 North American International Auto Show.
Entire press release:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...=74&docid=6384
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:29 PM
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News on the C6 Z06 just keeps getting better. It's being said that the fenders on the Z06 will make the car about 4 inches wider than the regular vette. But with this news and the rumors going around I'd expect this Z06 to be pretty expensive, too bad I won't be able to afford it.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:30 PM
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Rod do you always talk to yourself like this?

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Old 07-28-2004, 12:48 PM
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I would wait for 06, see what brings with the Z06.....and regardless by then they should have any bugs out of the car (hopefully put in a new steering wheel, etc).
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:50 PM
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New Z06 should be around $55k-$60k I would guess, the HP is going to be around 500.
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Old 07-28-2004, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
I would wait for 06, see what brings with the Z06.....and regardless by then they should have any bugs out of the car (hopefully put in a new steering wheel, etc).
Luckily my lease for the Z isn't up until Feb 06, so I'll most likely get a next year model C6 with some of the bugs hopefully ironed out. I'm not sure I can afford a Z06 though. I guess I'll see the price difference when they release the specs in January.
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Old 07-28-2004, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
I would wait for 06, see what brings with the Z06.....and regardless by then they should have any bugs out of the car (hopefully put in a new steering wheel, etc).
Yes. We will know everything about the Z06 in 5.5 months from now. Time flies.
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Old 07-28-2004, 08:35 PM
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I did not read the article but MotorTrend mag tested the Z51 car and:

0-60 in 4.3 secs
1/4 mile = 12.7 @112 mph
60-0 = 110 feet

There was a 911 Turbo on EVO that was rated at 4.1, 12.8 @113mph.

The as tested price for the C6 was $51K. Talk about a bargain.

I just cant imagine what the Z06 will do folks. I mean are we talking high 3s for the 60?

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Old 07-29-2004, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil

I did not read the article but MotorTrend mag tested the Z51 car and:

0-60 in 4.3 secs
1/4 mile = 12.7 @112 mph
60-0 = 110 feet

There was a 911 Turbo on EVO that was rated at 4.1, 12.8 @113mph.

The as tested price for the C6 was $51K. Talk about a bargain.

I just cant imagine what the Z06 will do folks. I mean are we talking high 3s for the 60?


Thats quick, but when some good drivers get there personal C6s to the strips, I can see low 12s easily. Look at the curve of the LS2 vs LS6. Stock Z06s have hit high 11s with very good drivers and ideal conditions. As for 3s to 60, that might be hard to do without slicks.
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Old 07-29-2004, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Thats quick, but when some good drivers get there personal C6s to the strips, I can see low 12s easily. Look at the curve of the LS2 vs LS6. Stock Z06s have hit high 11s with very good drivers and ideal conditions. As for 3s to 60, that might be hard to do without slicks.

I dont know about that. The slicks that is. The Carrera GT has not slicks. Of course it's got 100 more HP, but still.

On another note, I'd like to have seen the C6, 150 pounds lighter. It's not geting porky, but you have got to stay as close to the 3000 pound mark as possible. 3130 pounds would be the max in my opinion. The weight MT showed was close to 3300 pounds as I remember.
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:20 PM
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I think the new Z06 has the potential to hit 60 mph in under 4 seconds... without slicks. This is just from the numbers and stats I've seen circulating around, and from the numbers of the base C6.
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
I think the new Z06 has the potential to hit 60 mph in under 4 seconds... without slicks. This is just from the numbers and stats I've seen circulating around, and from the numbers of the base C6.
I would not be surprised with a 3.9 for the 60 and 12.0 for the 1/4 mile.
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Old 07-29-2004, 08:11 PM
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That's utterly God-like performance numbers. I am very impressed.
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Old 07-29-2004, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
The steering on the C6 is like the shifter on the C5, though to a lesser degree, in that it's the one thing you can point to and say "Detroit iron" rather than "best in class."
Yes...amen...I hate the shifter on the C5...the feel is great and all, but the throws are incredibly LOOOONG.

I have faith that they can make this car completely world class caliber, and still sell it loaded for under $50k.
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Old 07-29-2004, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
The weight MT showed was close to 3300 pounds as I remember.
In that case, is MT or the above article more accurate?

CURB WEIGHT: 3179 pounds
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:33 AM
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Thats insane, 113mph is more than the current Z06.

And I dont knowwtf you guys are talking about, even the current C5 base suspension is very nice. I drove one last year and I was amazed. It is certainly a car that has higher limits than 95% of the people driving them.

With that said I would go with the z51 also, might as well have the best susp package.

Wasnt there a comparo awhile back of the Base vs. Magnetic vs. Z51 suspensions in the C5? IIRC the Base had nearly the same slalom and skidpad times as the Z51 when it had the Z51 tires on.
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Old 07-30-2004, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by goldmemberer
In that case, is MT or the above article more accurate?

MT says curb weight of the Z51 is 3267 (I was off a little but I still stand by my point). It could be 150 pounds lighter.
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Old 07-30-2004, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jtkz13
Thats insane, 113mph is more than the current Z06.
To be exact, it's 112.3mph. I just got the mag at home. I was writing off memory before. I read the article at a bookstore.
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
Yes...amen...I hate the shifter on the C5...the feel is great and all, but the throws are incredibly LOOOONG.

I have faith that they can make this car completely world class caliber, and still sell it loaded for under $50k.
short-throw kits take care of this guy, a few of my friends have had C5's in the past (waiting to get pics of one of my friend's, he has a white '99 FRC with 19" and 20"s) - one of em had a black '01 with the short-throw, it was amazing to shift, so solid, definitely a short throw...
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Old 07-30-2004, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I would not be surprised with a 3.9 for the 60 and 12.0 for the 1/4 mile.
I will say high 3's for 60 and mid to high 11's @ ~120 mph for the 1/4...
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Old 07-30-2004, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by srika
short-throw kits take care of this guy, a few of my friends have had C5's in the past (waiting to get pics of one of my friend's, he has a white '99 FRC with 19" and 20"s) - one of em had a black '01 with the short-throw, it was amazing to shift, so solid, definitely a short throw...
here's pic of my friend's C5 I was talking about earlier.... pls excuse the terrible pic-downsizing, courtesy of photobucket... :<

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/..._15_04_026.jpg
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Old 07-30-2004, 01:11 PM
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GUYS CHECK THIS OUT!!! the C6 kicked some SERIOUS ASS on Top Gear, that British car review show!! just LOOK at the company this car is in!!!! I CANNOT WAIT to see what the Z06 will do!! I am thinking it will be in the Top 5 for sure!!! nuts. OK I will calm down now, lol..

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...&#entry4278913


Compare the pricing on these cars... the C6 is the deal of the century, in terms of bang-for-buck. The Z06 will be the deal of a lifetime.... BIG PROPS TO CHEVY!!!


1. Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
2. Ford GT - 1.21.9
3. Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
3. Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
5. Murcielago - 1.23.7
6. Zonda - 1.23.8
7. Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
8. Noble - 1.25.0
9. Gallardo - 1.25.8
10. Corvette C6 - 1.26
11. Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
12. Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2



Also see link above for Ford GT Top Gear review video download links!! the GT kicked some SERIOUS ASS!!!! damn. :ownage: ok I am calming down now, lol. deep breaths...
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Old 07-30-2004, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
GUYS CHECK THIS OUT!!! the C6 kicked some SERIOUS ASS on Top Gear, that British car review show!! just LOOK at the company this car is in!!!! I CANNOT WAIT to see what the Z06 will do!! I am thinking it will be in the Top 5 for sure!!! nuts. OK I will calm down now, lol..

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...&#entry4278913

Compare the pricing on these cars... the C6 is the deal of the century, in terms of bang-for-buck. The Z06 will be the deal of a lifetime.... BIG PROPS TO CHEVY!!!

1. Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9
2. Ford GT - 1.21.9
3. Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
3. Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
5. Murcielago - 1.23.7
6. Zonda - 1.23.8
7. Koenigsegg - 1.23.9
8. Noble - 1.25.0
9. Gallardo - 1.25.8
10. Corvette C6 - 1.26
11. Lotus Exige - 1.26.4
12. Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2

Also see link above for Ford GT Top Gear review video download links!! the GT kicked some SERIOUS ASS!!!! damn. :ownage: ok I am calming down now, lol. deep breaths...

What I am looking at actually is the Ford GT. That thing is untouchable in its price league or even double at that!

Nice find.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:11 PM
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I wonder if this was the Z51 car. Even if it was, the Z06 would be faster than this C6 base car. Imagine that. And imagine with the Z06 will do to those poor bastards.
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