Chevrolet: Corvette News
06-30-2005, 03:12 PM
#841
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
To gavriil;
Actually, there were a number of engines that Chevy produced in the 60's that put out quite a bit more than the advertised number.. quite a bit more as in real horsepower.
In 1967, Chevy offered the L88 in the Corvette. Rated at 430 HP put it 5 HP less than their "top-of-the-heap" L71 solid lifter tri-power 427. But the L88 was actually putting out 560 HP.
In 1969, Chevy introduced the ZL-1 again rating this engine at 430 HP. But its numbers were in the area of 600 HP. Now to say that it was really only putting out 60% of this is not the case at all. A 1969 Corvette with this engine and street tires was road tested by Motor Trend with a quarter mile of 10.3 seconds at 130 MPH. You ain't gonna get those kind of times with 360 HP.
There were other engines Chevy did this with. The L78 396 which was rated at 425 HP in 65 1/2 Vettes and at 375 HP in 66 SS Chevelles. The L 72 and L74 427 66 Corvette engines. The L89 427. And on and on.
Yes engines today are rated differently than those of the 60's. But the 60's supercar engines were definitely putting out the ponies.
Actually, there were a number of engines that Chevy produced in the 60's that put out quite a bit more than the advertised number.. quite a bit more as in real horsepower.
In 1967, Chevy offered the L88 in the Corvette. Rated at 430 HP put it 5 HP less than their "top-of-the-heap" L71 solid lifter tri-power 427. But the L88 was actually putting out 560 HP.
In 1969, Chevy introduced the ZL-1 again rating this engine at 430 HP. But its numbers were in the area of 600 HP. Now to say that it was really only putting out 60% of this is not the case at all. A 1969 Corvette with this engine and street tires was road tested by Motor Trend with a quarter mile of 10.3 seconds at 130 MPH. You ain't gonna get those kind of times with 360 HP.
There were other engines Chevy did this with. The L78 396 which was rated at 425 HP in 65 1/2 Vettes and at 375 HP in 66 SS Chevelles. The L 72 and L74 427 66 Corvette engines. The L89 427. And on and on.
Yes engines today are rated differently than those of the 60's. But the 60's supercar engines were definitely putting out the ponies.
You forgot the Yenkos and other factory drag cars
07-01-2005, 10:05 AM
#842
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Originally Posted by gavriil
1. Although the Enzo is a mid-engined car, the C6 is not a much worse of a configuration. That's mostly because the engine sits behind the front transaxle. Which is second best config. for performance.
2. When I wrote "beat the Enzo", I did not only have in mind the 0-60 performance factor, but all related performance factors.
2. When I wrote "beat the Enzo", I did not only have in mind the 0-60 performance factor, but all related performance factors.
07-01-2005, 10:08 AM
#843
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Originally Posted by Maximized
You forgot the Yenkos and other factory drag cars
07-01-2005, 04:04 PM
#844
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Originally Posted by http://www.worldcarfans.com
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphoto...id/6050701.001 With the latest supercar horsepower tango pouring out of Europe, GM can't stand to see the already potent 500hp Corvette Z06 gazed down upon as a second rate supercar. Instead GM is developing an alleged supercharged 600hp Z06 with carbon fiber components dubbed the "Blue Devil" as reported by Autoweek in a recent interview with General Motors vice chairman Bob Lutz. With a curb weight hovering around 2900 lbs. and a price tag starting at $100,000 the European competition should be breaking into a cold sweat as the Blue Devil seen here making laps around Germany's Nurbürgring passes by.
Blue Devil Lives!! When GM's vice chairman speaks of an ultra-performance Corvette, we listen (Autoweek)
Commentary:
There is no denying this devil in a blue dress will drop jaws with amazing performance but the best and worst part is the price tag. The price is the best part in terms of having an obtainable super car for non-millionaires. However, the worst part is the absence of status and exclusivity that comes with an exotic super sports car's astronomical price tag. Price it too low and the Blue Devil will never shake that second tier reputation no matter how good it performs. Bargains are for the frugal minded and in the realm of supercars this doesn't mix. It is well known that GM has the capability to build amazing cars of such caliber but in the midst of financial difficulty the Blue Devil is a bit inappropriate. GM should stop trying to shed light on its model line by creating an artificial halo effect from an affordable super car. Instead they should concentrate more on anticipating consumer tastes and make desirable products as a result. And I'm not talking about making more SUV's.
Brian Potter
Managing Director
brian@blackfalconmedia.com
Blue Devil Lives!! When GM's vice chairman speaks of an ultra-performance Corvette, we listen (Autoweek)
Commentary:
There is no denying this devil in a blue dress will drop jaws with amazing performance but the best and worst part is the price tag. The price is the best part in terms of having an obtainable super car for non-millionaires. However, the worst part is the absence of status and exclusivity that comes with an exotic super sports car's astronomical price tag. Price it too low and the Blue Devil will never shake that second tier reputation no matter how good it performs. Bargains are for the frugal minded and in the realm of supercars this doesn't mix. It is well known that GM has the capability to build amazing cars of such caliber but in the midst of financial difficulty the Blue Devil is a bit inappropriate. GM should stop trying to shed light on its model line by creating an artificial halo effect from an affordable super car. Instead they should concentrate more on anticipating consumer tastes and make desirable products as a result. And I'm not talking about making more SUV's.
Brian Potter
Managing Director
brian@blackfalconmedia.com
07-01-2005, 05:13 PM
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There is no denying this devil in a blue dress will drop jaws with amazing performance but the best and worst part is the price tag. The price is the best part in terms of having an obtainable super car for non-millionaires. However, the worst part is the absence of status and exclusivity that comes with an exotic super sports car's astronomical price tag. Price it too low and the Blue Devil will never shake that second tier reputation no matter how good it performs. Bargains are for the frugal minded and in the realm of supercars this doesn't mix. It is well known that GM has the capability to build amazing cars of such caliber but in the midst of financial difficulty the Blue Devil is a bit inappropriate. GM should stop trying to shed light on its model line by creating an artificial halo effect from an affordable super car. Instead they should concentrate more on anticipating consumer tastes and make desirable products as a result. And I'm not talking about making more SUV's.
This is "no-excuse time" for GM. This is time to execute on all cylinders, no matter how many those are.
07-02-2005, 03:18 PM
#847
Registered Member
To gaviil;
The 60% figure is a farce. Horsepower is horsepower. How it's rated and arrived at are certainly things to consider, for sure. My 1966 S 396/360 L34 Chevelle in bone stock condition with tires and a "drag" tune (simple backyard tuning of the stock Holley carb and the ignition), was good for 13.2's. And that was with 3.73 gears and a close ratio Muncie M21 box. I well remember the times since I lived them.
To Maximized;
I certainly do remember Yenko Camaros. And Baldwin/Motion Performance Camaros (11.5 seconds with their 427). But since those were specialty cars, build and tuned by dealers and shops, they really don't fall under the heading of factory machinery. Now the 1966 L78 Chevelle (396/375 solid lifter engine) was a real barn stormer.. a Street Hemi eater. That was one quick machine.
The 60% figure is a farce. Horsepower is horsepower. How it's rated and arrived at are certainly things to consider, for sure. My 1966 S 396/360 L34 Chevelle in bone stock condition with tires and a "drag" tune (simple backyard tuning of the stock Holley carb and the ignition), was good for 13.2's. And that was with 3.73 gears and a close ratio Muncie M21 box. I well remember the times since I lived them.
To Maximized;
I certainly do remember Yenko Camaros. And Baldwin/Motion Performance Camaros (11.5 seconds with their 427). But since those were specialty cars, build and tuned by dealers and shops, they really don't fall under the heading of factory machinery. Now the 1966 L78 Chevelle (396/375 solid lifter engine) was a real barn stormer.. a Street Hemi eater. That was one quick machine.
07-02-2005, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
To gaviil;
The 60% figure is a farce. Horsepower is horsepower. How it's rated and arrived at are certainly things to consider, for sure. My 1966 S 396/360 L34 Chevelle in bone stock condition with tires and a "drag" tune (simple backyard tuning of the stock Holley carb and the ignition), was good for 13.2's. And that was with 3.73 gears and a close ratio Muncie M21 box. I well remember the times since I lived them.
The 60% figure is a farce. Horsepower is horsepower. How it's rated and arrived at are certainly things to consider, for sure. My 1966 S 396/360 L34 Chevelle in bone stock condition with tires and a "drag" tune (simple backyard tuning of the stock Holley carb and the ignition), was good for 13.2's. And that was with 3.73 gears and a close ratio Muncie M21 box. I well remember the times since I lived them.
07-05-2005, 09:04 AM
#849
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
To gaviil;
To Maximized;
I certainly do remember Yenko Camaros. And Baldwin/Motion Performance Camaros (11.5 seconds with their 427). But since those were specialty cars, build and tuned by dealers and shops, they really don't fall under the heading of factory machinery. Now the 1966 L78 Chevelle (396/375 solid lifter engine) was a real barn stormer.. a Street Hemi eater. That was one quick machine.
To Maximized;
I certainly do remember Yenko Camaros. And Baldwin/Motion Performance Camaros (11.5 seconds with their 427). But since those were specialty cars, build and tuned by dealers and shops, they really don't fall under the heading of factory machinery. Now the 1966 L78 Chevelle (396/375 solid lifter engine) was a real barn stormer.. a Street Hemi eater. That was one quick machine.
07-08-2005, 12:35 AM
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The Devil in detail - - Source: Autocar
General Motors is hatching a plan to significantly raise the profile of its flagging Chevrolet brand, with a scorching supercharged 600bhp version of the new 7.0-litre V8 Corvette Z06.
Dubbed the ‘blue devil’ by GM insiders, and caught here setting an impressive 7min 40sec lap of the Nόrburgring in the hands of Corvette’s Le Mans class-winning driver Jan Magnussen, the car will be positioned to take on some of the world’s most highly-respected supercars, according to General Motors’ product guru, Bob Lutz. ‘We’re going to do something beyond the Z06, at a much higher price point, and which would compete with some of the leading high-performance cars of the world,’ Lutz told American motoring magazine AutoWeek.
Dubbed the ‘blue devil’ by GM insiders, and caught here setting an impressive 7min 40sec lap of the Nόrburgring in the hands of Corvette’s Le Mans class-winning driver Jan Magnussen, the car will be positioned to take on some of the world’s most highly-respected supercars, according to General Motors’ product guru, Bob Lutz. ‘We’re going to do something beyond the Z06, at a much higher price point, and which would compete with some of the leading high-performance cars of the world,’ Lutz told American motoring magazine AutoWeek.
07-08-2005, 12:47 AM
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7:40 is VERY impressive for a non-prod car. That means there is room for better times, plus because of force feeding they have a lot of room for added power with very simple tuning, needless to say.
07-08-2005, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
There is some confusion whether that time is for the Blue Devil or C6 Z06. Guys on the corvetteforum stated that people saw the test and it was indeed a Z06 which ran a 7:43 or 7:40. AutoBild has the 7:40 time listed for a C6 Z06 and not the blue devil.
07-09-2005, 11:23 AM
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^
Actually this makes sense. Let's see what news comes out next and I will split and merge this portion of the thread to the Z06 thread if confirmed.
It makes sense for the Blue Devile to be clearly faster than a Carrera GT on any track. Nothing should come close to it if produced.
Actually this makes sense. Let's see what news comes out next and I will split and merge this portion of the thread to the Z06 thread if confirmed.
It makes sense for the Blue Devile to be clearly faster than a Carrera GT on any track. Nothing should come close to it if produced.
07-17-2005, 02:00 PM
#856
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yea... apparently the only similarity the "blue devil" at the 'Ring had with the 'real' "blue devil", technically-speaking, was that, it was blue.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...8&forum_id=100
also, the 7:43 was achieved with the stock run-flat tires!!! this theoretically means a stock C6 Z06 on race rubber would threaten a CGT
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...8&forum_id=100
also, the 7:43 was achieved with the stock run-flat tires!!! this theoretically means a stock C6 Z06 on race rubber would threaten a CGT
07-17-2005, 02:17 PM
#857
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some info from Dave Hill.......
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...7&forum_id=100
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...7&forum_id=100
Dave Hill told us today at the Infineon ALMS Corvette Corral that at tomorrow's Corvette Racing Banquet he would reveal the times for the ZO6 at the 'Ring! (I'll make sure to ask about the 'Blue Devil')
He was asked a couple of times to spill the beans but he kept telling us he would announce the results at tomorrow's banquet. I'll let you know what he says...
Also, other items Dave mentioned (some of which is already known):
1) Customer cars would be built starting at the end of this month;
2) We would be "very pleased" with the magazine test reports that are coming out in August;
3) The pistons are definitely cast aluminum;
4) He showed us examples of the various weight-saving parts on the new Z and let us handle them: titanium rod, a section of the aluminum frame, a magnesium roof connector, and a part of the suspension;
5) He also mentioned that it should be easy to adjust for large amounts of negative camber on this car due to the attachment point of the A-arms. I must admit I didn't hear this explanation in its entirety as the Speed GT cars were on the track; (Lou was 7th, I think.)
6) He also clearly explained why the roof must be fixed. He said that although the aluminum is very stiff it is NOT as stiff as the steel. With the roof bolted in place the car is stiffer and lighter than with a steel frame and a removeable roof. (He also reiterated the often stated "The ZO6 will never be a convertible" line.) Again he stated that the roof "could be removed" if someone really wanted to go through the effort but it would "be a really bad idea."
7) When asked "What happened to Torch Red?" Dave skirted the issue a little then finally shot back, "we got rid of it." (He actually said that it made the car look to flat as it reflected too much light...)
8) The best comment of the car was actually from Johnny O'Connell who said "Everyone has been asking for a super vette. Well, I've driven it. You know the expression, 'be careful what you ask for?'"
My personal observations of the ZO6 (a red one):
A) It had about 6680 miles on it but the dash to the upper right of the instrument cluster was already BADLY cracked
B) I'm not sure about the CCA of the battery but to me it looked very small (yes, I know it's in the back!)
C) The steering wheel looked SYMMETRICAL despite all of the rantings on the CF site. 04retro was going to measure it--don't know if he did--and I didn't see his post until after returning home from the track, but I didn't notice anything weird about the wheel and I know what the discussion is about.
D) There is very little clearance between the rear wheel and the brake caliper; if anyone is considering aftermarket wheels this could pose quite a problem.
E) I don't think the air inlet in the nose of the car is really going to amount to much as it is so small; it might cool the engine compartment a bit but none of that air is getting into the combustion chambers.
Overall I liked the look of the car in person better than I thought I would but I'd still need to drive it before i would consider buying one.
Any q's you want asked let me know before I go back to the track tomorrow am or the banquet tomorrow night...
Crash
He was asked a couple of times to spill the beans but he kept telling us he would announce the results at tomorrow's banquet. I'll let you know what he says...
Also, other items Dave mentioned (some of which is already known):
1) Customer cars would be built starting at the end of this month;
2) We would be "very pleased" with the magazine test reports that are coming out in August;
3) The pistons are definitely cast aluminum;
4) He showed us examples of the various weight-saving parts on the new Z and let us handle them: titanium rod, a section of the aluminum frame, a magnesium roof connector, and a part of the suspension;
5) He also mentioned that it should be easy to adjust for large amounts of negative camber on this car due to the attachment point of the A-arms. I must admit I didn't hear this explanation in its entirety as the Speed GT cars were on the track; (Lou was 7th, I think.)
6) He also clearly explained why the roof must be fixed. He said that although the aluminum is very stiff it is NOT as stiff as the steel. With the roof bolted in place the car is stiffer and lighter than with a steel frame and a removeable roof. (He also reiterated the often stated "The ZO6 will never be a convertible" line.) Again he stated that the roof "could be removed" if someone really wanted to go through the effort but it would "be a really bad idea."
7) When asked "What happened to Torch Red?" Dave skirted the issue a little then finally shot back, "we got rid of it." (He actually said that it made the car look to flat as it reflected too much light...)
8) The best comment of the car was actually from Johnny O'Connell who said "Everyone has been asking for a super vette. Well, I've driven it. You know the expression, 'be careful what you ask for?'"
My personal observations of the ZO6 (a red one):
A) It had about 6680 miles on it but the dash to the upper right of the instrument cluster was already BADLY cracked
B) I'm not sure about the CCA of the battery but to me it looked very small (yes, I know it's in the back!)
C) The steering wheel looked SYMMETRICAL despite all of the rantings on the CF site. 04retro was going to measure it--don't know if he did--and I didn't see his post until after returning home from the track, but I didn't notice anything weird about the wheel and I know what the discussion is about.
D) There is very little clearance between the rear wheel and the brake caliper; if anyone is considering aftermarket wheels this could pose quite a problem.
E) I don't think the air inlet in the nose of the car is really going to amount to much as it is so small; it might cool the engine compartment a bit but none of that air is getting into the combustion chambers.
Overall I liked the look of the car in person better than I thought I would but I'd still need to drive it before i would consider buying one.
Any q's you want asked let me know before I go back to the track tomorrow am or the banquet tomorrow night...
Crash
07-17-2005, 02:20 PM
#858
Senior Moderator
can't wait for the magazine reviews!
07-17-2005, 02:23 PM
#859
Senior Moderator
oh yeah..... from that same link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...2&postcount=12
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...2&postcount=12
From Dave's mouth to my note pad:
After a long discussion on all the various times of different (Non-Corvette) cars around the ring, using 8:00 as the benchmark for "world class" performance Dave announced:
A 2005 C6 turned the 'Ring in 7:59! (yes 7:59, NOT 7:56!!)
A 2004 C5 ZO6 did it in the already known 7:56
and the 2006 ZO6, driven by Jan Magnusson drove it in........
7:43
Dave said this time was already available on the net so it was not part of the August embargo.
Also it was NOT the Blue Devil.
Let the Bench Racing begin!
Crash
After a long discussion on all the various times of different (Non-Corvette) cars around the ring, using 8:00 as the benchmark for "world class" performance Dave announced:
A 2005 C6 turned the 'Ring in 7:59! (yes 7:59, NOT 7:56!!)
A 2004 C5 ZO6 did it in the already known 7:56
and the 2006 ZO6, driven by Jan Magnusson drove it in........
7:43
Dave said this time was already available on the net so it was not part of the August embargo.
Also it was NOT the Blue Devil.
Let the Bench Racing begin!
Crash
07-22-2005, 12:06 PM
#864
Not Asian
MEDIA TAKES Z06 TO TRACK .... Journalists recently got a chance to get behind the wheel of the ultimate Corvette - the Z06. They took this fastest-Corvette-ever out to two famed Formula One tracks - Nurburgring in Germany and Spa in Belgium, and got some time on the Autobahn as well.
The Corvette Z06 achieves 0-to-60 acceleration in 3.7 seconds. In addition to boosting the engine to 505 horses, the Z06 differs from the standard Corvette coupe in a number of ways including a lightweight aluminum frame, a dry-sump engine lubrication system like a racecar, a cold-air scoop on the hood, carbon fiber fenders, and a taller rear spoiler. Articles on the Z06 will hit magazines and newspapers in October.
The Corvette Z06 achieves 0-to-60 acceleration in 3.7 seconds. In addition to boosting the engine to 505 horses, the Z06 differs from the standard Corvette coupe in a number of ways including a lightweight aluminum frame, a dry-sump engine lubrication system like a racecar, a cold-air scoop on the hood, carbon fiber fenders, and a taller rear spoiler. Articles on the Z06 will hit magazines and newspapers in October.
08-11-2005, 12:02 PM
#869
Senior Moderator
the rumor mill is saying Motor Trend has tested the new Z06 to the tune of 11.57 @ 124.96 or 127.1 mph. Some people are saying 124, some 127.... I would like to believe the 127, but I think the 124 is more realistic... damn... 11.5 - now that is some stock PERFORMANCE!!!
look for the test in the next MT
look for the test in the next MT
08-11-2005, 12:51 PM
#870
Senior Moderator
thinking about it some more, I don't think the 127 mph would be too far-fetched, either... 
08-11-2005, 01:00 PM
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Well judging from the Carrera GT doing 11.2 sec @ 132 mph I certainly believe the 127.
11.5 makes sense for 505HP considering the weight. Blue Devile should be in the high 10s teaching a lesson to all, including the Enzo.
11.5 makes sense for 505HP considering the weight. Blue Devile should be in the high 10s teaching a lesson to all, including the Enzo.
08-11-2005, 02:30 PM
#874
Senior Moderator
I knew I remember that 127 number from somewhere... 
from 6 months ago in this thread:
from 6 months ago in this thread:
Originally Posted by srika
Chevy says the new Z06 will do the 1/4 mile in 11.7 seconds @ 127 mph 
I believe it. If not damn close to that. This car is not even in the same league as the Viper anymore, and shouldn't be compared to it.
It's running with the Ford GT now. Hell, with some basic mods, it'll be running close to Enzo and Carrera GT territory. Now that, is insane. Even bone stock, it ain't too far from Carrera GT territory. Oh yeah..... for around $65,000.
Check this review at C&D online, it's a good read.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9017
srika
I believe it. If not damn close to that. This car is not even in the same league as the Viper anymore, and shouldn't be compared to it.
It's running with the Ford GT now. Hell, with some basic mods, it'll be running close to Enzo and Carrera GT territory. Now that, is insane. Even bone stock, it ain't too far from Carrera GT territory. Oh yeah..... for around $65,000.
Check this review at C&D online, it's a good read.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9017
srika
08-11-2005, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Well judging from the Carrera GT doing 11.2 sec @ 132 mph I certainly believe the 127.
11.5 makes sense for 505HP considering the weight. Blue Devile should be in the high 10s teaching a lesson to all, including the Enzo.
11.5 makes sense for 505HP considering the weight. Blue Devile should be in the high 10s teaching a lesson to all, including the Enzo.
08-11-2005, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by biker
Those numbers are almost exactly what my former bike was capable of.
Biker, who for the first time in 15 years is bikeless.
Biker, who for the first time in 15 years is bikeless.
You bikeless? How the hell did that happen?
08-11-2005, 08:27 PM
#877
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Awesome performance. The Z06 is a car I aspire to own one day - I'd also love an exotic, but I think I have a more realistic chance of owning a Z06 some day.
08-12-2005, 05:16 AM
#878
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Originally Posted by gavriil
TIme to change that screen name then You bikeless? How the hell did that happen?
You bikeless? How the hell did that happen?
08-12-2005, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
Had to sell it before I move back to the states. I'll get another one soon enough.