SiGGy

What show do we have in the US that compares cars like "top gear" does? I'm not aware of one...

SpeedyV6

SpeedyV6

I am surprised to see that the Porsche 911 Turbo and GT3 both got smoked by a C6 - on a course that emphasizes handling no less!!

zeroday

.01 seconds difference isnt exactly smoked...these arent dyno tests..human skill/error is a factor.

SpeedyV6

The first digit is in minutes; the second two digits are seconds; and the decimal relfects tenths of a second. There's a 1.2 second gap between the GT3 & the 'Vette & 4 seconds between the 911 Turbo & the Corvette. Let's say the average speed for one lap is 60 mph - a conservative estimate imo. At an average speed of 60 mph, a 4 second gap in distance would put the 'Vette roughly one additional football field ahead of the 911 Turbo with every lap that passes. That's a big difference.

chungkopi

but it's not 4 seconds. it's 5 seconds between vette and 911 turbo. 5 freakin seconds.

gavriil

Well, most of these exotics we dont get here. Most shows will cover the Lambos and Ferraris that are sold here. Motorweek does.

gavriil

Zap, do you understand the difference between what I am saying and what you're saying that I am saying? This is not about subjective points which you make it sound. How can a C6 be slower than an NSX on the straight line? Is that a subjective point? How can the shifter be as bad as they make it sound when everyone else is praising it? And the rest of the poings I made in my long post.

It's not about being harsh as with other cars. It's about, can you report the truth or not?

gavriil

Sorry. Top Gear is a car mag's TV show.

How can that be. How can these professionals (of the field) not be able to drive a car in the straight line? You dont need to be a great driver to beat an NSX with the C6. So it can only be the latter. Bias. Which makes the whole thing pathetic and unprofessional. It's like a policeman making a deal with the drug dealer. That's the new low these losers have reached.

Couple their hate for America's foreign policy, their hate for its President, their dislike and close to hate of USAmerican cars, their grudge about Aston and Jag being bought by a USAmerican company, their jelousy of USAmerica's success overall, their general dislike of USAmerican citizens and overall their disbelief of how can a country be so successful and powerful so quickly when they were an empire in the past and nothing close to it now and you got what you see on that clip.

And the British are the BEST from Europe. Imagine how bad the rest are...

No that's not even close to how harsh one should be reacting to what I see in Europe and what they think of America. Politicingin? You bet I am. They started it, we can finish it.

It's no opinion about who's faster on the straight line. C6 or NSX. That's a fact.

gavriil

You dont need SKILL to beat the NSX in the C6.

gavriil

No matter how good the Vette gets, as long as it follows the known philosophy of old/high tech (and not low tech), it will never be respected in Europe. There is just way too much equity in old rules of thumb there like the large displacement one and others about USAmerican cars in general not being sporty. It will take decades of BEATING everyone there before there is a general turn in common opinion.

What pisses me off the most is "journalists" like THAT puny ASS from Top Gear and Clarkson the loser and the crap they feed the rest of the sheep there.

1SICKLEX

Well Clarkson has verbally stated he thinks Ferrari is nothing short of God. He also thinks Porsche is a gussied up VW. American cars stand not much chance in European views. Our products are improving but we must admit we've sold some pretty shoddy products.
People buy American b/c it's cheaper not b/c it's better. Caddy, the Vette, Ford are trying to change this.

And as much as ya'll get on me about "Image" here in the USA, Image is HUGE in Europe. American car company images in Europe and Japan=crap, plain and simple.

gavriil

True.

cob3683

F'ing idiots at T Gear. C6 is one badass car.

zeroday

hmm i must not have eaten my wheaties yesterday...dunno what i was thinking

Rod

I don't see why everyone's so worked up about what these Top Gear assholes say. They're idiots. The bottom line is best summed up at the end of the article posted by cusdaddy earlier in this thread:

Maximized

Depends on a lot of things actually. Did Top Gear turn off active handling completly or put it into competition mode?? Competition mode will allow wheelspin, but keeps the stability control active. When launched hard, from my experience in a Z06, the car will slide its ass end out a little. The guy driving the car seemed like a real tool to me. He was complaining about the shifter and clutch pedal effort. Seems like he was making excuses for his poor physical condition and/or his poor driving abilitities. A lot of people in here would have a hard time posting low 13s in a C6 without proper seat time. Also, they arent on a dragstrip, but rather on regular asphalt, which isnt prepped for traction like at strip. This could account for the poor launch and massive wheelspin seen in the video.

srika

That's wrong, the 911 Turbo would have done better than that. Must have been one of their elusive "wet" tests. The new C6 will be about on par with a 911 (996) Turbo, on pretty much all aspects...

Python2121

^^ yeah their wet tests are bs. if you aren't going to test them in fair conditions, why even BOTHER putting the numbers on the board??

srika

http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/To...orvette_hi.wmv

gavriil

Does one need driving skills to think of that? That's brain skills mostly. Something Top Gear asses lack, which they might as well have forgotten to prep the car properly.


He was clearly making the shifter look like an anchor stick.

Then how come the NSX hooked up so well? See the clip again. It looks like the NSX has AWD and 200HP more than that others.

Crap...

heyitsme

Think you're giving the us mags too much credit for what they may have said, most prerelease articles tend to sell the car, gloss over problems, instead annoucing its arrival to the general public. Later, when they do comparos, they seem to sometimes do 180's with their attitude about a car, more of whats best and whats wrong with the cars instead of fluff. Also I don't see how this is praise "The shifts came easier and more quickly, compared to the more bulky feel of the C5, which sometimes could remind you of a '67 Chevelle bracket racer. Clutch takeup in the C6 was also quite a bit smoother, and with a lot less pedal effort:autoweek" Clearly this was a problem on the c5, it was improved but I don't see anything about it being eliminated so I can see how something like this could transfer over to the c6.

As for beating the nsx, its not like the honda is all that slow of a car, so someone who doesn't have the skill to launch a high power car, they would most likely get toasted off the line and a lot of times the launch dictates the race. If they really wanted consistent results the stig would also be the only one that does straight line tests, as you noticed, they didn't include times. They could have had those cars in the mid 13's and low 14's, which they most likely did.

srika

FWIW - my supra was a 12 second car but back before I knew how to launch it, I would be running 13's all day. And, even after I figured out how to launch, still I'd have times where I'd slip the clutch just a little too slow or fast, and get some wheelspin, and run a 13. It ain't easy launching a high-hp RWD car. or FWD I would think.

jimcol711

what a bullshit video. there is no way that a stock NSX would beat a C6, no fucking way on the planet. that guy lost on purpose. talk about bias!! christ, and people thing Farenhiet 9/11 is propaganda and bias filled bullshit!!!

gavriil

True. But dont you think that a mag like Top Gear should learn how to lunch each car before they put it against a "United Nations Drag Race"? ANd why are they conveniently having a problem launching OUR C6 and not THEIR TVR or NSX?

Agenda? Nah...

gavriil

heyitsme MT mag and C&D Mag have praised the shit out of the shifter feel of this C6. It's fixed. So dont try to overanalyze the crap from Top Gear and find nit picks to justify them. When I drive the car, I will find out for myslef and if they are right and Top Gear is wrong, I will for sure bash them once again back to this thread.

gavriil

2005 Chevrolet Corvette --- 2005 Chevrolet Corvette - - With the “C6,” the little changes make a big difference - - by Paul A. Eisenstein - - Source: The Car Connection


When 50,000 Corvette fans gathered inNashville , last year, to celebrate the legendary marque's 50th anniversary, there was a palpable sense something was missing. Spread around the grounds of Titans Stadium, you could spot just about every possible permutation, from lovingly-restored first-generation 'Vettes to one-off Le Mans racers.

What you couldn't find was the C6, shorthand for the sixth-generation Corvette, that was originally supposed to be unveiled at the Nashville bash. The project was pushed back a year by GM's "car czar," Bob Lutz, who wanted to ensure the C6 would not only be better than the vehicle it replaced, but that it would be a truly world-class sports car. Corvette fans - and there are many better described as fanatics - might take exception, but for much of its 51-year history, Corvette has had more in common with the classic American muscle car than with true sports cars like the Porsche 911.

That began to change with the debut of the fifth-generation Corvette, in 1997, which had lots more to offer than just a badass V-8. And you knew it, just by looking at the C5, clearly a car transformed, the dramatic changes in its appearance underscoring what had been done under the skin. While the C5 came temptingly close, it had not quite chinned the bar. And so, despite his disappointment at the delay, Corvette chief engineer Dave Hill relished the opportunity to put a little more effort into the C6. The Corvette team pored over virtually every detail of the car, addressing everything from interior refinement to off-the-line acceleration.

Evolution or revolution?

What they've wrought may not be apparent immediately. Unlike the revolutionary C5, the new car is what designers like to call an "evolutionary" update. At casual glance, there are plenty of folks who might not even realize they're looking at a C6. But spend just the briefest time behind the wheel and you'll recognize this as an entirely new automobile - Hill likes to point out that 85 percent of it has been changed, at least if you measure by weight. Even the little things make a big difference. And so, for the first time, the new Corvette is absolutely ready to take on all comers.

We took delivery of our C6 one recent summer's morning, product manager Harlan Charles handing us the keys to what was just the 20th car to come off the line in Bowling Green, Kentucky . Journalists often get their first ride in early production cars, but we were immediately impressed by the lack of such start-up snags as ill-fitting trim pieces.

Many folks in our little enclave of Pleasant Ridge, Michigan, have gotten into the habit of driving down Cambridge Boulevard to see what vehicles wind up in our driveway each week. And as Charles and I did a long walkaround, we couldn't ignore the steady stream of commuters pausing to inspect the new Corvette.

Not all were sure what they were seeing. At first glance, the C6 bears a strong similarity to the outgoing, fifth-generation 'Vette. But closer inspection reveals some significant changes, such as the more elegantly sculpted tail, which resolves one of the old car's biggest visual weaknesses. The most controversial? The decision to abandon Corvette's classic pop-up headlights, but the new High-Intensity Discharge lamps offer several distinct advantages. There's more light, for one thing, and HIDs fit into a tighter package.

Adding up the numbers

That helped engineers accomplish a critical goal. Though the wheelbase of the C6 has been stretched an inch, the 2005 Corvette is a full five inches shorter and more than an inch narrower than last generation - giving it essentially the same footprint as Porsche's 911. Curb weight for the base coupe has been trimmed 35 pounds, to 3179 lb, not all that much more than the Porsche.

Corvette's have always looked sleek, but when it comes to aerodynamics, appearances often deceive. The Corvette of the early 1980s created so much turbulence at highway speeds, it reportedly had a lower coefficient of drag (CD) when turned backwards in the General Motors wind tunnel. Last generation's car had a slick .300 Cd. The new car cuts that to an impressive .286.

These may all be small numbers, perhaps, but they add up to big improvements in the Corvette's road manners. Especially when you work in the big numbers. The C6's LS2 V-8 has bulked up to a full 6.0-liters, while making an impressive 400 horsepower and 400 lb-ft of torque. Engine mounting has been optimized, improving weight balance to a near-perfect 51/49. There's an optional, four-speed automatic, if you really must. But it's a shame to miss the pure driving pleasure of the new, six-speed Tremec transaxle. The gear level has been shortened, as has the throw. We did miss a few at first, but it didn't take long to get use to this intuitive package.

Chevy engineers are proud to note that the new car has a better power-to-weight ratio than the outgoing 911. It will launch you from 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds in the base car. With its performance gearing, the Z51 package trims about a tenth of a second off that figure, putting the new C6 almost even with the old C5 Z06. Top speed is a quick 186 mph.

Tight and twisty

Corvettes have always been fast - at least in terms of straight-line acceleration. With the C5, Chevy started to compete where it matters to most drivers. And when it comes to tight and twisty roads, the C6 is going to give just about any competitor a run for the money.

Held over from the last-generation, the new car uses a big torque tube and hydroformed rails to enhance its stiffness. There's a new suspension cradle, and suspension travel has been increased more than half an inch. Three separate suspension packages are available, including a base mechanical system, GM's sophisticated magnetic ride control, and the performance-oriented Z51 package.

Even the base suspension has been notably enhanced. But we're expecting strong demand for the Magneride system. In a nutshell, the shocks are filled with a a ferrous fluid that changes viscosity - its thickness, or ability to flow - in the presence of a magnetic field. The intensity of that field is controlled by computer sensors that constantly read and respond to road conditions and driver input.

In sport mode, you get a firm yet compliant ride that locks the car onto the pavement. In touring mode, you sacrifice a minor bit of high-performance handling, but the car soaks up road harshness almost as smoothly as a luxury sedan.

The Z51 package is for those who want to max out on performance. We're talking stiffer springs and dampers, as well as a quicker gearbox and larger brakes, with drilled rotors. The Z51, as earlier noted, also brings its own set of gears for quicker take-off.

Unintimidating

For those who expect to work hard driving a sports car - think Dodge Viper - the new C6 offers a pleasant surprise. "You don't have to feel intimidated to drive this car, insists program manager Charles. And it's an accurate assessment. Steering is easy and precise, with an incredible on-center feel. The car is incredibly predictable, with few surprises, no matter how you push it.

It helps that the car is loaded with a variety of digital "helping hands," including standard ABS brakes, traction control, and electronic stability control. Our Z51 package offered a push-button control to shift into various software settings, including Competition Driving Mode. It did not completely disable these systems but set them to intervene only when we might truly get in over our head. For adventurous drivers who disdain all these high-tech gizmos, you can shut the electronics off entirely, if you really want.

Pushing a sports car to its limits can be challenging, so some subtle refinements on a car like the Corvette can be even more beneficial than on a big luxury sedan. Road noise, vibration, and harshness has been notably reduced. And there's a markedly more sophisticated quality to the powertrain sound. Much of the brashness of the big V-8 has been tamed. What you now have is the best of both worlds: the invigorating roar of an American V-8, with the smooth refinement of a high-tech European engine.

Part of that is due to a new, straight-through exhaust system. There are no more kinks around the spare tire well because the spare is gone. Chevy has put its trust in its run-flat tires, 18-inchers up front, 19s in the back.

Technical tour de force

Complimenting the powertrain and suspension technology, the 2005 Corvette has become a digital showcase. There are new, fully-electric doors (though they're backed up by mechanical emergency releases). There's not only a keyless entry system, but keyless start, a nice way to get the car warmed up on a cool Michigan morning. The system is a little quirky, requiring you to be in reverse when you shut down or your battery will continue to drain.

In the creature comforts column, there's an optional 230-watt, seven-speaker Bose audio system, with six-CD in-dash changer, or you can opt for a new navigation system. We were impressed by the new Head-Up-Display, or HUD, system, which puts a variety of information right in your line of sight. Without having to look down, this optional system can display such data as speed, cornering G-forces and turn-by-turn navigation instructions.

There are plenty of firsts, at least for Corvette, including heated seats. It's not the first 'Vette to offer an electrically-operated convertible top, but the last time such a package was offered was way back in 1962. After a simple manual operation, the top will fold down in just 18 seconds.

Ergonomics are normally not something associated with sports cars, but Dave Hill's team really thought through the location of every switch and dial. There are even two surprisingly effective cupholders in the new C6. We would have preferred a fully electric tilt/telescope wheel, however. The car comes with a tilt system, and the telescoping feature is an option.

Seats are comfortable, yet supportive, and they can handle even a large, 6'2" frame comfortably.

Just one word: Plastic

If we have one complaint, it's the center stack. Why do manufacturers invest so much and then cut corners with cheap plastic surfaces Wal-Mart would reject? The C6 audio system may sound great, but visually, it could have come out of the cheapest Chevy Aveo.

That said, there isn't much to complain about with the new Corvette. You're getting performance to rival a 911 at the price of a Boxster. Compared to the Viper, this is an incredibly sophisticated car that makes it easy to drive at the limits, but doesn't numb and dumb you down.

Were more American cars as well-designed and engineered, Detroit would still dominate the auto industry.



2005 Chevrolet Corvette
Base price: $44,245 coupe, $52,245 convertible
Engine:6.0-liter LS2 V-8, 400-hp, 400 lb-ft.
Transmission: six-speed manual, or 4-speed automatic, rear-wheel drive
Length by width x height: 174.6 x 72.6 x 49.0 in (convertible: 49.1 in. height)
Wheelbase: 105.8 inches
Curb weight: 3179 lb coupe; 3199 lb convertible
EPA City/Hwy: Est. 18 mpg City/28 mpg Highway base/manual; 18 City/26 Highway base/automatic
Safety equipment: Dual front airbags, ABS brakes, traction control, stability control, alarm system, run-flat tires
Major standard equipment: HID headlamps, AC with dual-zone climate control, leather power seats, tilt wheel, premium AM/FM/CD audio system with MP3 capability, cruise control, power doors, windows and mirrors
Warranty: Three years/36,000 miles

gavriil

Hand-built Z06 engines - - Source: Autoweek



Hand-built Z06 engines

The brand spanking new General Motors Performance Build Center will tackle its first project by next summer—the hand-built LS7 V8 for the next-generation Corvette Z06. The center in Wixom, Michigan, can produce up to 15,000 engines per year. Other good news on the Z06 front? If you like the C6, know that even though chief engineer Dave Hill won’t commit to working on the seventh-generation car, he has his hands all over development of the C6-based Z06. He promises a more extreme performance difference over the base car than was the case with the C5.

srika

that seems to be a fairly unbiased review. you know, spending $50k on a car, I think the plastic-ness would bother me, too.

cusdaddy

Great article... Very well written and much more truthful than the other review

A few interesting quotes:

"the car soaks up road harshness almost as smoothly as a luxury sedan."

"But it's a shame to miss the pure driving pleasure of the new, six-speed Tremec transaxle. The gear level has been shortened, as has the throw."

heyitsme

More truthful in what way.

zeroday

in the way that they aren't blatantly lying.

cusdaddy

The impressions about the ride quality and transmission by Top Gear are completely against every review of the C6 I have read. I'll agree with their assessment of the interior though

gavriil

In a way that it's closer to the truth.

Sypher

There is another show by the Top Gear people called Fifth Gear. I've seen it on TV here once, but can't remember why it was a separate show.

This C6 is impressing me more and more. With the slow or possibly cancelled release of the next NSX, I think I've found my new favorite dream car. I'm still holding out to see the next CTS-V, though. I'm kinda torn between four doors or convertible...

gavriil

I emailed my writeup about the Top Gear clip to Top Gear and forwarded to Bob Lutz next. Of course, I am not awaiting for a reply from either.

gavriil

5th gear is on the Speed Channel now.

Here are some clips:

http://gear.viper007bond.com/downloa...4ef83b3449f9b1

Crazy Bimmer

I like where this is going

Minch00

Excellent

Black CL-S 4-Life

Good news the Z06 will be sick!